2017-18 OFF-SEASON

[Ranma]

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[Kilroy]

So are we Fer-it or Agin-it? I'm personally all-in at this point. Clearly if we're going to win a Championship, we're going to need bigger/more reliable bats to ease the pressure on our pitching... Might as well go for the biggest fish in the pond if he's catchable.

[Ranma]

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[Ranma]

So are we Fer-it or Agin-it? I'm personally all-in at this point. Clearly if we're going to win a Championship, we're going to need bigger/more reliable bats to ease the pressure on our pitching... Might as well go for the biggest fish in the pond if he's catchable.

Neddy has been the early proponent in championing the pursuit of Giancarlo Stanton. In fact, I initially responded to his proposal by indicating that I was in favor of tabling that discussion until next offseason. However, in light of recent reports, I'm actually onboard with going after Stanton, however, I want us to leverage his preference for the Dodgers and no-trade clause to make a deal that is on favorable terms for us.

His contract is still a concern given its length, the monetary commitment, luxury tax implications, and health concerns. I don't want to bail out the Marlins for that idiotic extension they handed him along with all the leverage. It may be a new ownership group but they knew what they were buying into and, so far, Jeter and his crew are stumbling right out of the gate.

Everyone knows they want to shed salary commitments and Stanton's is the biggest on their ledger. Not only did the new regime not reach out to Stanton, but supposedly have given him an ultimatum that supposedly isn't one in informing him that he should accept being traded or else continue to be stuck in Miami with typical bad play and a roster anticipated to be even more depleted. Jeter certainly hasn't gained any new friends or admirers with his mis-handling of letting go of team personnel.

Even rival teams are saying that the Marlins' trade demands are unrealistic and I'm not at all inclined to bail them out of their albatross.

I wanted to wait until next offseason because I wanted to both lower our payroll beneath the luxury tax threshold in order to reset penalties as well as to see how things shake out with next year's vaunted class of free agents. Re-signing Clayton Kershaw and pursuing Manny Machado are non-negotiable top priorities for me, but acquiring Stanton would remove pursuing Bryce Harper from consideration for me and there is certainly appeal to that.

Like I said, though, the deal has to make sense. Save for maybe a few prospects (Mitchell White, Jeren Kendall, and possibly Will Smith), I'm not really going to fret losing any of our prospects in a deal for Stanton or Chris Archer. I've said before that our farm system is lacking in top-shelf talent and there really is no one approaching untouchable status as I no longer consider Julio Urias to be a prospect in a good way.

Walker Buehler has talent but also health concerns, especially with his build, mechanics, and injury history; his upside and realistic projection don't warrant consideration to the levels of Seager, Bellinger, or Urias before him. I've gone on before about how Alex Verdugo should be trade bait as a sell-high player. In my opinion, we've approached a point with our developmental pipeline that a lot of our prospects should be dealt to make room for new prospects in coming drafts and maximizing their value as assets. It doesn't mean that prospects should be dumped, but that we should be open to cashing in these chips for desirable targets.

I still want cash back in a deal to offset the salary commitment to Stanton. Somewhere around $50 million should suffice, but I'd love to trade some of that off by having Miami take back some unwanted short-term salary from our side whether it's in the form of Adrian Gonzalez, Scott Kazmir, or even Brandon McCarthy. Only then should the Dodgers consider giving up quality prospects in trade.

Going after Shohei Ohtani should be the absolute top priority for the Dodgers, but acquiring the Japanese superstar has no bearing on whether we should pursue Stanton or any other player, for that matter.

[Neddy]

So are we Fer-it or Agin-it? I'm personally all-in at this point. Clearly if we're going to win a Championship, we're going to need bigger/more reliable bats to ease the pressure on our pitching... Might as well go for the biggest fish in the pond if he's catchable.

Neddy has been the early proponent in championing the pursuit of Giancarlo Stanton. In fact, I initially responded to his proposal by indicating that I was in favor of tabling that discussion until next offseason. However, in light of recent reports, I'm actually onboard with going after Stanton, however, I want us to leverage his preference for the Dodgers and no-trade clause to make a deal that is on favorable terms for us.

His contract is still a concern given its length, the monetary commitment, luxury tax implications, and health concerns. I don't want to bail out the Marlins for that idiotic extension they handed him along with all the leverage. It may be a new ownership group but they knew what they were buying into and, so far, Jeter and his crew are stumbling right out of the gate.

Everyone knows they want to shed salary commitments and Stanton's is the biggest on their ledger. Not only did the new regime not reach out to Stanton, but supposedly have given him an ultimatum that supposedly isn't one in informing him that he should accept being traded or else continue to be stuck in Miami with typical bad play and a roster anticipated to be even more depleted. Jeter certainly hasn't gained any new friends or admirers with his mis-handling of letting go of team personnel.

Even rival teams are saying that the Marlins' trade demands are unrealistic and I'm not at all inclined to bail them out of their albatross.

I wanted to wait until next offseason because I wanted to both lower our payroll beneath the luxury tax threshold in order to reset penalties as well as to see how things shake out with next year's vaunted class of free agents. Re-signing Clayton Kershaw and pursuing Manny Machado are non-negotiable top priorities for me, but acquiring Stanton would remove pursuing Bryce Harper from consideration for me and there is certainly appeal to that.

Like I said, though, the deal has to make sense. Save for maybe a few prospects (Mitchell White, Jeren Kendall, and possibly Will Smith), I'm not really going to fret losing any of our prospects in a deal for Stanton or Chris Archer. I've said before that our farm system is lacking in top-shelf talent and there really is no-one approaching untouchable status as I no longer consider Julio Urias to be a prospect in a good way.

Walker Buehler has talent but also health concerns, especially with his build, mechanics, and injury history; his upside and realistic projection doesn't warrant consideration to the levels of Seager, Bellinger, or Urias before him. I've gone on before about how Alex Verdugo should be trade bait as a sell-high player. In my opinion, we've approached a point with our developmental pipeline that a lot of our prospects should be dealt to make room for new prospects in coming drafts and maximizing their value as assets. It doesn't mean that prospects should be dumped, but that we should be open to cashing in these chips for desirable targets.

I still want cash back in a deal to offset the salary commitment to Stanton. Somewhere around $50 million should suffice, but I'd love to trade some of that off by having Miami take back some unwanted short-term salary from our side whether it's in the form of Adrian Gonzalez, Scott Kazmir, or even Brandon McCarthy. Only then should the Dodgers consider giving up quality prospects in trade.

Going after Shohei Ohtani should be the absolute top priority for the Dodgers, but acquiring the Japanese superstar has no bearing on whether we should pursue Stanton or any other player, for that matter.

Miami is not going to want to take back any dead money in Stanton's deal. Stanton holding his no trade clause and favoring the Dodgers, versus the management wanting far more out of his deal and threatening to trade everybody else if Stanton does not wave off his no trade rights, tells me the drama is a high octane one and Andrew and Co. will not wilt under pressure. Dodgers will insist something similar to what you are proposing, and Jeter's people will want Stanton to be more flexible. but it will all come down to that one major factor. what does Jeter and his business partners want the most and that is salary relief. the best way to do it I think, is to involve more players. take Stanton and Martin Prado. I would consider taking Dee Gordon as well. adding three contracts now give equal value to cash savings they want, and we get to dump Gonzo and Kazmir on them along with some cash going their way and the Marlins can immediately buy them off and release them, so they don't count against their cap. ( do the rules not allow this anymore?) we find a third team that is willing to take Dee Gordon, I think the Rangers should be in the discussion although they seem to love their fan favorite Rougned Odor. he is toiling away at .200 BA with OPS barely above .600. they also can use a leadoff hitter.

so we take Stanton, Prado and his 2 years worth roughly of Gonzo's 2018 money, Dee Gordon with his 10 + million per year for 4 more years deal, give them a couple of decent prospects and dump Gonzo and Kazmir, they buy them out with each with 1 year remaining on their deals. we flip Dee Gordon and his contract, we probably will have to eat Prado's money and release him as well, but it will be spread over 2 years instead of 1 like Gonzo which should help with the payroll management a little. we could even keep Prado as a utility player.

Ohtani seems further away from what we should be focusing on right now to me a little. his demand of going both ways without committing to defensive side of the game, will cause issues in NL as position players who will platoon with Ohtani may feel he is unable to get into rhythm with such frequent and consecutive days of no play. putting all eggs in one basket and have the injury bug bite, can create issues on both sides of the game.

one more topic that probably nobody will read, but after singing Pat the ambidexterity wonder boy, we could keep one less reliever as he can go exclusively as a RHP one day and LHP on the next, so we can run out a 6 men rotation. it will be a boon for everyone. Kershaw will be fresh, Wood and Hill with less injury risks, Ryu and Maeda gets a spot each, and Ohtani's routine won't have to change coming over from Japan.
it's an idea.

[Quake Griffin]

Yasmani Grandal trade rumors are here.

I’m concerned about who is backing Austin up at this point but viewing this situation in its totality, I don’t mind having this problem.


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[Neddy]

makes me almost to think that they would like names in return even if it didn't bring back any real value.

for instance, what if the Marlins are okay with namesakes of Gonzo and Kazmir in return along with 1 good prospect like Alvarez? of course it is with us paying both Gonzo and Kazmir's full deal in return for the Marlins paying Stanton's next year's salary. if they wish to get the numbers off their books being a higher priority, then just take Gonzo and Kazmir and work out the detail for their payroll situation.

I know people are concerned about Stanton's deal, and yes it is hefty, but in 6 years his deal will look what an average middle of the order aka 3-4-5 guys (or nowadays, 2-3-4 guys) would get by then.

How are you so sure it will?






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well, let's start from Sandy Koufax and Don Drysdale. their pursuit of 1 million dollars between them for 3 years in 1966 ended up paying them about a quarter million combined annually. it took getting to 1980 to find Nolan Ryan becoming the first ever 1 million dollar per year man. it took nearly 15 years to go from Sandy Koufax's $125,000 salary to Ryan's million, then it took another dozen years to get to Bobby bonilla's 5 million. then it took 5 years for Albert Belle and his 10 million per. it took Alex Rodriguez just 4 years to double that, then push 30 million by 2009. Clay and Zack are 34 million-ish per year now in 2017 and neither will be the top 5 highest paid players in the league in 2 years. I can totally see the best players in the league, 4 years out from the great flood gate of 2019, which will be 2023, 6 years from now, the top pay will be around 40+, if not more... looking at the trend since 1966 when free agency idea was conceived by Sandy and Don's hold out. while 30 per year player becomes almost as causally seen on every team in MLB minus Oakland A's, and a handful more.

the worst brunt of the contract of Stanton is in his mid 30's at 32 per season. by then, it will easily be the norm and Stanton may end up feeling wanting to opt out, which will be welcomed.

[Ranma]

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[Neddy]

where is Grandal's best destination and what can we get from them?

[Neddy]

nationals, angels, and the Dbacks, among whom can afford Grandal's price tag...

screw it, that's way to close to home for comfort in case the trade backfires big time. don't sell him to where he is most needed, sell him to where we can get the most out of him by selling him as a good DH who happens to be willing to play a full time catching where he also happens to be one of the elites in the league at.

Orioles, RedSox, and maybe even the Tigers?

and should we be asking for Yaz?

yeah yeah I know, it is all rhetorical at this point as we have discussed these possibilities over and over in the recent past, but humor me. I say a solid young pitching prospect or already a current or major league ready level reliever plus a couple of low level lotto scratchers.

[Ranma]

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[Ranma]

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[Quake Griffin]

nationals, angels, and the Dbacks, among whom can afford Grandal's price tag...

screw it, that's way to close to home for comfort in case the trade backfires big time. don't sell him to where he is most needed, sell him to where we can get the most out of him by selling him as a good DH who happens to be willing to play a full time catching where he also happens to be one of the elites in the league at.

Orioles, RedSox, and maybe even the Tigers?

and should we be asking for Yaz?

yeah yeah I know, it is all rhetorical at this point as we have discussed these possibilities over and over in the recent past, but humor me. I say a solid young pitching prospect or already a current or major league ready level reliever plus a couple of low level lotto scratchers.

We may have undercut his value by sitting him in the playoffs. Theory being, “If he’s so good, why’d you bench him?” It’s not like Barnes is Posey level.

My interest here is simply to get something over nothing.

Why? Because I think Yasmani would take the QO if we offered it, cash in on the $17 million payday, and bet on himself to get a 4-5 year contract going into his age 31 season that would close his career.

I don’t think he can yield a lot on his own.
What about in a package?


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[Ranma]

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[Ranma]

I still want cash back in a deal to offset the salary commitment to Stanton. Somewhere around $50 million should suffice, but I'd love to trade some of that off by having Miami take back some unwanted short-term salary from our side whether it's in the form of Adrian Gonzalez, Scott Kazmir, or even Brandon McCarthy. Only then should the Dodgers consider giving up quality prospects in trade.

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If the Marlins are willing to include $45 million and settle for the Giants' prospects, then the Dodgers should be able to pull the trigger without even including Verdugo. Miami might haggle by saying that San Francisco is willing to give up their top prospects, so the Dodgers should be willing to include ours, which of course is ridiculous, since we have like 6 top-100 prospects right now while the Giants don't have any only 1 among MLB Pipeline's top 100. Keibert Ruiz, who is ranked 6th in the Dodgers' system, is arguably more valuable than almost any one of those found in San Francisco.

[Neddy]

We may have undercut his value by sitting him in the playoffs. Theory being, “If he’s so good, why’d you bench him?” It’s not like Barnes is Posey level.

My interest here is simply to get something over nothing.

Why? Because I think Yasmani would take the QO if we offered it, cash in on the $17 million payday, and bet on himself to get a 4-5 year contract going into his age 31 season that would close his career.

I don’t think he can yield a lot on his own.
What about in a package?


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yes we did... we should have played Yaz a few more games, Barnes hit below the Mendoza line for the entire WS, and Yaz only got 3 at bats. he should have started a game or two during the WS. it was the World Series for god's sake. who knows if Yaz would have had a great series and we didn't go to the game 7? or even if Yaz would go on to suck equal or even worse as a backup catcher with one or two starts in a 6 to 7 game series, he would at least have his name on the lineup card of the WS. you never know if he could even ever comeback... and that goes for any player.

[Ranma]

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[Neddy]

Stanton wants to be a dodger, as he should as a local boy. I wonder if Jeter is asking for Puig despite what Donny thinks? LOL

[Ranma]

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[Ranma]

well, let's start from Sandy Koufax and Don Drysdale. their pursuit of 1 million dollars between them for 3 years in 1966 ended up paying them about a quarter million combined annually. it took getting to 1980 to find Nolan Ryan becoming the first ever 1 million dollar per year man. it took nearly 15 years to go from Sandy Koufax's $125,000 salary to Ryan's million, then it took another dozen years to get to Bobby bonilla's 5 million. then it took 5 years for Albert Belle and his 10 million per. it took Alex Rodriguez just 4 years to double that, then push 30 million by 2009. Clay and Zack are 34 million-ish per year now in 2017 and neither will be the top 5 highest paid players in the league in 2 years. I can totally see the best players in the league, 4 years out from the great flood gate of 2019, which will be 2023, 6 years from now, the top pay will be around 40+, if not more... looking at the trend since 1966 when free agency idea was conceived by Sandy and Don's hold out. while 30 per year player becomes almost as causally seen on every team in MLB minus Oakland A's, and a handful more.

the worst brunt of the contract of Stanton is in his mid 30's at 32 per season. by then, it will easily be the norm and Stanton may end up feeling wanting to opt out, which will be welcomed.

Ron Darling on MLB Tonight stated that he expects Stanton to opt out of his contract because Bryce Harper will get $400 million over 10 years as a free agent next winter. While Darling isn't the sharpest tool in the shed, he does provide a counter to your point albeit inadvertently. Even if Stanton's production proves to be worth it with the inflationary rise in contracts being handed out by then, it still suppresses his trade value because you're only assured of getting him for 3 more seasons, otherwise, it becomes an albatross commitment for any organization should he struggle or suffer a career-threatening injury.

This is why the Dodgers are handling things perfectly in letting things play out in order to wait for the Marlins to come back with more favorable terms where Miami has to eat a big portion of the remaining contract commitment. Having a player dictate the terms of his large contract for so many years in the latter stages of his career is not something a smart front office should be rushing to accept.