Game 29: Cavs @ Mavs 12/14/2022

[JujitsuFlip]

They beat the tough teams and lose to the scrubs.

They tried coasting for three quarters against the Spurs and got caught slipping. Part of the problem is that JBB needs to go deeper into his bench so that these guys don't rest on the court.

Yeah, I agree. None of us on here seem to realize why JB refuses to play more than 8 guys.

[ijspeelman]

They beat the tough teams and lose to the scrubs.

They tried coasting for three quarters against the Spurs and got caught slipping. Part of the problem is that JBB needs to go deeper into his bench so that these guys don't rest on the court.

Yeah, I agree. None of us on here seem to realize why JB refuses to play more than 8 guys.

The assumption he plays such a shot line-up because he only trusts a few guys and at minimum has to play eight or it would be ridiculous.

I don’t think he’s right in this, but I guess I get the logic. Hopefully with Rubio coming back soon, the line-up becomes nine guys or possibly ten when healthy.

[JujitsuFlip]

They tried coasting for three quarters against the Spurs and got caught slipping. Part of the problem is that JBB needs to go deeper into his bench so that these guys don't rest on the court.

Yeah, I agree. None of us on here seem to realize why JB refuses to play more than 8 guys.

The assumption he plays such a shot line-up because he only trusts a few guys and at minimum has to play eight or it would be ridiculous.

I don’t think he’s right in this, but I guess I get the logic. Hopefully with Rubio coming back soon, the line-up becomes nine guys or possibly ten when healthy.

Idk if I can even get on board with that theory because with injuries, he's got some sort of look at most guys but then writes em off.

[JonFromVA]

Yeah, I agree. None of us on here seem to realize why JB refuses to play more than 8 guys.

The assumption he plays such a shot line-up because he only trusts a few guys and at minimum has to play eight or it would be ridiculous.

I don’t think he’s right in this, but I guess I get the logic. Hopefully with Rubio coming back soon, the line-up becomes nine guys or possibly ten when healthy.

Idk if I can even get on board with that theory because with injuries, he's got some sort of look at most guys but then writes em off.

I think a lot of people question JBB's feel for the game let alone his understanding of simple cause and effect of using different players at different times. He wants his rotational players to simply fill specific roles, but when was parking Isaac Okoro or Lamar Stevens in the corner ever a good idea? Let alone playing them together?

Just like in Mike Brown's time here there are signs the team is adjusting slowly to some of these problems, but where's that coming from? If the coach was seeing it in real-time, we'd expect real-time adjustments, no?

[toooskies]

It's more that if you want to play more than 8 guys, you need to break up the two three-man rotations we have at PG/SG (DG/DM/LeVert) and PF/C (Mobley/Allen/Love). That means you need to play a backup C instead of shifting Mobley there, and you need to play a backup PG instead of shifting Mitchell there.

We think that backup PG is coming when Rubio is healthy. I wouldn't mind a real backup C in trade, but RoLo isn't that guy.

[jbk1234]

Yeah, I agree. None of us on here seem to realize why JB refuses to play more than 8 guys.

The assumption he plays such a shot line-up because he only trusts a few guys and at minimum has to play eight or it would be ridiculous.

I don’t think he’s right in this, but I guess I get the logic. Hopefully with Rubio coming back soon, the line-up becomes nine guys or possibly ten when healthy.

Idk if I can even get on board with that theory because with injuries, he's got some sort of look at most guys but then writes em off.

I can make a case for Neto, Cedi, and Diakite getting more run. From the outside looking in, it's unclear why Cedi's leash is so short or why he seems to spend a disproportionate amount of time in JBB's doghouse for lapses that most of our role players have. Maybe there's a back story there, maybe not.

With Neto, there just aren't that many really bad teams in the NBA anymore, we have the luxury of having Garland or Mitchell, and with JBB feeling insecure about holding leads, I get it.

Diakite isn't even traveling with the team. That's a front office decision and I think the two-way contract may be a factor in that decision.

[toooskies]

The assumption he plays such a shot line-up because he only trusts a few guys and at minimum has to play eight or it would be ridiculous.

I don’t think he’s right in this, but I guess I get the logic. Hopefully with Rubio coming back soon, the line-up becomes nine guys or possibly ten when healthy.

Idk if I can even get on board with that theory because with injuries, he's got some sort of look at most guys but then writes em off.

I can make a case for Neto, Cedi, and Diakite getting more run. From the outside looking in, it's unclear why Cedi's leash is so short or why he seems to spend a disproportionate amount of time in JBB's doghouse for lapses that most of our role players have. Maybe there's a back story there, maybe not.

With Neto, there just aren't that many really bad teams in the NBA anymore, we have the luxury of having Garland or Mitchell, and with JBB feeling insecure about holding leads, I get it.

Diakite isn't even traveling with the team. That's a front office decision and I think the two-way contract may be a factor in that decision.

Cedi's leash was short because he's shooting 20% from three in his last 9 games, and while it didn't affect his other contributions on the court at first, it was clearly throwing his overall game off the past few times on the court.

Neto has had some stretches where he didn't do much, and when he's out on the court he's not a ballhandler. I see him more as an Okoro-type point of attack defender rather than a backup PG. Which I'd be fine with-- I'd probably prefer Neto to Okoro for some minor floor stretching-- but that involves benching Okoro. We might see this if Okoro is still struggling later on in the year...

Diakite's on a two-way and I imagine we're going to make sure he's available for as many games as necessary if Mobley or Allen get a medium-term injury in the 2nd half of the year. He can only play in 50 games for the big-league team and he's at 11 right now. As it is, he's playing well with the Charge in his six games, although his 3-point shot has fallen off a bit. IMobley has a near-identical stat line as Diakite down there. Sharife Cooper is too good for the G-League.

[JonFromVA]

Idk if I can even get on board with that theory because with injuries, he's got some sort of look at most guys but then writes em off.

I can make a case for Neto, Cedi, and Diakite getting more run. From the outside looking in, it's unclear why Cedi's leash is so short or why he seems to spend a disproportionate amount of time in JBB's doghouse for lapses that most of our role players have. Maybe there's a back story there, maybe not.

With Neto, there just aren't that many really bad teams in the NBA anymore, we have the luxury of having Garland or Mitchell, and with JBB feeling insecure about holding leads, I get it.

Diakite isn't even traveling with the team. That's a front office decision and I think the two-way contract may be a factor in that decision.

Cedi's leash was short because he's shooting 20% from three in his last 9 games, and while it didn't affect his other contributions on the court at first, it was clearly throwing his overall game off the past few times on the court.

Neto has had some stretches where he didn't do much, and when he's out on the court he's not a ballhandler. I see him more as an Okoro-type point of attack defender rather than a backup PG. Which I'd be fine with-- I'd probably prefer Neto to Okoro for some minor floor stretching-- but that involves benching Okoro. We might see this if Okoro is still struggling later on in the year...

Diakite's on a two-way and I imagine we're going to make sure he's available for as many games as necessary if Mobley or Allen get a medium-term injury in the 2nd half of the year. He can only play in 50 games for the big-league team and he's at 11 right now. As it is, he's playing well with the Charge in his six games, although his 3-point shot has fallen off a bit. IMobley has a near-identical stat line as Diakite down there. Sharife Cooper is too good for the G-League.

fwiw, there's a nuance to Diakite's situation as I understand it, he doesn't have to play for it to count against his 50 games. I think if he's just up with the club and practicing, that may be enough.

otoh, we have a roster spot open and if he actually managed to prove himself as someone we can give minutes to (wouldn't it be nice to know that before an injury happens?) we can just give him a real contract.

Anyway, I get the impression JBB would love a consistent 8 man rotation and a chance to let everyone get used to playing together, whereas fans would like to see some more ... umm ... coaching - specifically situational coaching.

So, it's not that JBB has to play a 10 man rotation with hockey shifts, but if he just calls on players when it makes sense to use them he would naturally work more guys in the lineup, and there'd be less feast or famine.

[jbk1234]

I can make a case for Neto, Cedi, and Diakite getting more run. From the outside looking in, it's unclear why Cedi's leash is so short or why he seems to spend a disproportionate amount of time in JBB's doghouse for lapses that most of our role players have. Maybe there's a back story there, maybe not.

With Neto, there just aren't that many really bad teams in the NBA anymore, we have the luxury of having Garland or Mitchell, and with JBB feeling insecure about holding leads, I get it.

Diakite isn't even traveling with the team. That's a front office decision and I think the two-way contract may be a factor in that decision.

Cedi's leash was short because he's shooting 20% from three in his last 9 games, and while it didn't affect his other contributions on the court at first, it was clearly throwing his overall game off the past few times on the court.

Neto has had some stretches where he didn't do much, and when he's out on the court he's not a ballhandler. I see him more as an Okoro-type point of attack defender rather than a backup PG. Which I'd be fine with-- I'd probably prefer Neto to Okoro for some minor floor stretching-- but that involves benching Okoro. We might see this if Okoro is still struggling later on in the year...

Diakite's on a two-way and I imagine we're going to make sure he's available for as many games as necessary if Mobley or Allen get a medium-term injury in the 2nd half of the year. He can only play in 50 games for the big-league team and he's at 11 right now. As it is, he's playing well with the Charge in his six games, although his 3-point shot has fallen off a bit. IMobley has a near-identical stat line as Diakite down there. Sharife Cooper is too good for the G-League.

fwiw, there's a nuance to Diakite's situation as I understand it, he doesn't have to play for it to count against his 50 games. I think if he's just up with the club and practicing, that may be enough.

otoh, we have a roster spot open and if he actually managed to prove himself as someone we can give minutes to (wouldn't it be nice to know that before an injury happens?) we can just give him a real contract.

Anyway, I get the impression JBB would love a consistent 8 man rotation and a chance to let everyone get used to playing together, whereas fans would like to see some more ... umm ... coaching - specifically situational coaching.

So, it's not that JBB has to play a 10 man rotation with hockey shifts, but if he just calls on players when it makes sense to use them he would naturally work more guys in the lineup, and there'd be less feast or famine.

Also, I think if he's on a two-way, he can't be traded. So this could be Altman's way of kind of keeping other teams from asking for him as a sweetener.

[JonFromVA]

Cedi's leash was short because he's shooting 20% from three in his last 9 games, and while it didn't affect his other contributions on the court at first, it was clearly throwing his overall game off the past few times on the court.

Neto has had some stretches where he didn't do much, and when he's out on the court he's not a ballhandler. I see him more as an Okoro-type point of attack defender rather than a backup PG. Which I'd be fine with-- I'd probably prefer Neto to Okoro for some minor floor stretching-- but that involves benching Okoro. We might see this if Okoro is still struggling later on in the year...

Diakite's on a two-way and I imagine we're going to make sure he's available for as many games as necessary if Mobley or Allen get a medium-term injury in the 2nd half of the year. He can only play in 50 games for the big-league team and he's at 11 right now. As it is, he's playing well with the Charge in his six games, although his 3-point shot has fallen off a bit. IMobley has a near-identical stat line as Diakite down there. Sharife Cooper is too good for the G-League.

fwiw, there's a nuance to Diakite's situation as I understand it, he doesn't have to play for it to count against his 50 games. I think if he's just up with the club and practicing, that may be enough.

otoh, we have a roster spot open and if he actually managed to prove himself as someone we can give minutes to (wouldn't it be nice to know that before an injury happens?) we can just give him a real contract.

Anyway, I get the impression JBB would love a consistent 8 man rotation and a chance to let everyone get used to playing together, whereas fans would like to see some more ... umm ... coaching - specifically situational coaching.

So, it's not that JBB has to play a 10 man rotation with hockey shifts, but if he just calls on players when it makes sense to use them he would naturally work more guys in the lineup, and there'd be less feast or famine.

Also, I think if he's on a two-way, he can't be traded. So this could be Altman's way of kind of keeping other teams from asking for him as a sweetener.

Or Altman could just stand in front of the mirror every day and practice saying 'No'.

I thought we'd see more of the Mobley brothers too.

Now, maybe JBB has seen all he needs to see in practice, but there should be synergy with the two brothers playing together on both ends of the floor.

[jbk1234]

fwiw, there's a nuance to Diakite's situation as I understand it, he doesn't have to play for it to count against his 50 games. I think if he's just up with the club and practicing, that may be enough.

otoh, we have a roster spot open and if he actually managed to prove himself as someone we can give minutes to (wouldn't it be nice to know that before an injury happens?) we can just give him a real contract.

Anyway, I get the impression JBB would love a consistent 8 man rotation and a chance to let everyone get used to playing together, whereas fans would like to see some more ... umm ... coaching - specifically situational coaching.

So, it's not that JBB has to play a 10 man rotation with hockey shifts, but if he just calls on players when it makes sense to use them he would naturally work more guys in the lineup, and there'd be less feast or famine.

Also, I think if he's on a two-way, he can't be traded. So this could be Altman's way of kind of keeping other teams from asking for him as a sweetener.

Or Altman could just stand in front of the mirror every day and practice saying 'No'.

I thought we'd see more of the Mobley brothers too.

Now, maybe JBB has seen all he needs to see in practice, but there should be synergy with the two brothers playing together on both ends of the floor.

I don't know man, it seems to me that if we were making decisions regarding Isiah for basketball reasons, he'd be the one on a two-way and he be playing for the charge full time.

[toooskies]

Also, I think if he's on a two-way, he can't be traded. So this could be Altman's way of kind of keeping other teams from asking for him as a sweetener.

Or Altman could just stand in front of the mirror every day and practice saying 'No'.

I thought we'd see more of the Mobley brothers too.

Now, maybe JBB has seen all he needs to see in practice, but there should be synergy with the two brothers playing together on both ends of the floor.

I don't know man, it seems to me that if we were making decisions regarding Isiah for basketball reasons, he'd be the one on a two-way and he be playing for the charge full time.

If we were making decisions regarding Isaiah for basketball reasons, Isaiah would probably not have been drafted and Cooper probably would be on the two-way.

[JonFromVA]

Also, I think if he's on a two-way, he can't be traded. So this could be Altman's way of kind of keeping other teams from asking for him as a sweetener.

Or Altman could just stand in front of the mirror every day and practice saying 'No'.

I thought we'd see more of the Mobley brothers too.

Now, maybe JBB has seen all he needs to see in practice, but there should be synergy with the two brothers playing together on both ends of the floor.

I don't know man, it seems to me that if we were making decisions regarding Isiah for basketball reasons, he'd be the one on a two-way and he be playing for the charge full time.

eh? Isaiah *is* on a two-way.

And what's this about basketball reasons?

Isaiah has played a grand total of 26 minutes in the league and never got more than a 6 1/2 minute stint,

EVEN THOUGH:

1) He hasn't had negative minutes in any of his 8 games.
2) He's averaging 13 & 15 per 36
3) He's shooting 50% on 3's and has a 56.3 TS%
4) He leads the team with a +52.1 on-court +/-
5) He's scorching the G-league

Meanwhile opponents are picking on Kevin Love's defense and he hasn't been able to make anyone pay with his shooting since breaking his finger.

[jbk1234]

Or Altman could just stand in front of the mirror every day and practice saying 'No'.

I thought we'd see more of the Mobley brothers too.

Now, maybe JBB has seen all he needs to see in practice, but there should be synergy with the two brothers playing together on both ends of the floor.

I don't know man, it seems to me that if we were making decisions regarding Isiah for basketball reasons, he'd be the one on a two-way and he be playing for the charge full time.

eh? Isaiah *is* on a two-way.

And what's this about basketball reasons?

Isaiah has played a grand total of 26 minutes in the league and never got more than a 6 1/2 minute stint,

EVEN THOUGH:

1) He hasn't had negative minutes in any of his 8 games.
2) He's averaging 13 & 15 per 36
3) He's shooting 50% on 3's and has a 56.3 TS%
4) He leads the team with a +52.1 on-court +/-
5) He's scorching the G-league

Meanwhile opponents are picking on Kevin Love's defense and he hasn't been able to make anyone pay with his shooting since breaking his finger.

And this is where advanced stats get you into real trouble. Very small sample sizes against third string units after the game is well out of reach aren't predictive of anything. To my eye, he's not athletic enough to be an NBA player. He could maybe get there with a lot of hard work and regular minutes in the G League, but work ethic is the reason he slipped in the draft, and carrying him on the regular roster due to feels is not doing him any favors.

[JonFromVA]

I don't know man, it seems to me that if we were making decisions regarding Isiah for basketball reasons, he'd be the one on a two-way and he be playing for the charge full time.

eh? Isaiah *is* on a two-way.

And what's this about basketball reasons?

Isaiah has played a grand total of 26 minutes in the league and never got more than a 6 1/2 minute stint,

EVEN THOUGH:

1) He hasn't had negative minutes in any of his 8 games.
2) He's averaging 13 & 15 per 36
3) He's shooting 50% on 3's and has a 56.3 TS%
4) He leads the team with a +52.1 on-court +/-
5) He's scorching the G-league

Meanwhile opponents are picking on Kevin Love's defense and he hasn't been able to make anyone pay with his shooting since breaking his finger.

And this is where advanced stats get you into real trouble. Very small sample sizes against third string units after the game is well out of reach aren't predictive of anything. To my eye, he's not athletic enough to be an NBA player. He could maybe get there with a lot of hard work and regular minutes in the G League, but work ethic is the reason he slipped in the draft, and carrying him on the regular roster due to feels is not doing him any favors.

Trouble? There's no trouble here.

All he can do is perform in the minutes he's given, and he has ... both in the pros and in the g-league.

What will it take for JBB to give him a longer look? That's the conundrum.

[JujitsuFlip]

It's more that if you want to play more than 8 guys, you need to break up the two three-man rotations we have at PG/SG (DG/DM/LeVert) and PF/C (Mobley/Allen/Love). That means you need to play a backup C instead of shifting Mobley there, and you need to play a backup PG instead of shifting Mitchell there.

We think that backup PG is coming when Rubio is healthy. I wouldn't mind a real backup C in trade, but RoLo isn't that guy.

That's a fair observation, hopefully the Cavs can get closer to a 10 man rotation soon.