LBJ backlash?

[landphil]

The Knicks in the past month have been playing defense and they've been playing hard. You don't even need to watch the games, just look at the box scores. They've held opponents below 100 points in 12 of 15 games in December. The young core of NY plays D (Gallo, Chandler and Douglas while Hill is still a question mark). The Knicks have enough to sign Lee and that core right there is already better than what the Cavs can offer.

I dunno why you keep downplaying Lebron's impact on a team. The Cavs are a good fit for him but it's still not the best fit. Lebron even said it himself that he can win on any team. And non-talent from the Knicks? You sound like you watch too much ESPN. LOL

Come one your kidding right...the knicks have gone 9-6 in that stretch, hardly championship material...Comparing them to the cavs of a few years ago when lebron got here is a good comparison but comparing the cavs w/o lebron and the knicks, is still not even close. Lebron fits so much better in the cavs system. First off we play defense. Second off, for all of mike brown's horrible rotational ability, it is nothing compared to mike dantoni and his refusal to play people just for the hell of it. Example A: 8 people played in the knicks recent overtime win against atlanta. 4 people did not play because of coach's decision. And we wonder (well we dont really) why the knicks seem to take nights off completely, like a week ago when they lost to the nets.

There are countless other reasons the knicks dont make sense, less money, worse players blah blah blah the fact of the matter is that lebron basically took a team to a title run on his back a few years ago and that team was clearly overmatched by a superior team at the end of a season where lebron just played every single minute of every single game and literally could not carry the team any further. That would be what happens if he goes to the knicks and they dont somehow massively overhaul their roster, which is impossible given the money situation.

[mcfly1204]

I am still question why LeBron would be drawn to a team where 2 of their 3 young, "core" players play the same position that he does. Sure, either can play minutes at the PF spot, but why play your best players out of position? I think NY is better off going after a solid SG, i.e. Joe Johnson.

[knicksNOTslick]

The Knicks in the past month have been playing defense and they've been playing hard. You don't even need to watch the games, just look at the box scores. They've held opponents below 100 points in 12 of 15 games in December. The young core of NY plays D (Gallo, Chandler and Douglas while Hill is still a question mark). The Knicks have enough to sign Lee and that core right there is already better than what the Cavs can offer.

Heh, the Wizards, their fans, and their media still go on about a month they played really well a few years ago and rose to the top of the ECF. Their fan base still thinks they would have won multiple titles if not for injuries based on that one month.

At the moment the Knicks are 15th on offense, and 19th on defense, and even if they improve what does it matter if they have to release most of their starting lineup? Plus while you might be able to conceive of a scenario that would allow the Knicks to sign LeBron and keep David Lee. It's just a scenario. He's a free agent. He can go if he wants to go or gets a better offer.

I dunno why you keep downplaying Lebron's impact on a team. The Cavs are a good fit for him but it's still not the best fit. Lebron even said it himself that he can win on any team. And non-talent from the Knicks? You sound like you watch too much ESPN. LOL

Because we've watched his entire career and seen that fitting him in to a team is non-trivial due to how he plays, how defenses react to him, and how he dominates the ball.

4 out of 5 Knicks starters are possibly returning next season. Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Jared Jeffries and David Lee ALL start for the Knicks, 3 of them are under contract and have been instrumental in our wins. Lee is the question mark, he's been awesome and the Knicks have a chance to retain him depending on how much he's asking (if he agrees to a contract starting at $8.5 million, the Knicks can retain him if no moves are made).

The guys you are talking about that have a great chance to be released (Al Harrington, Hughes, Nate, Darko)... They all come off the bench. LOL

This just goes to show that Knick fans know more about the Cavs (because a lot of us watch the Cavs play) than Cavs fans know about the Knicks. If you don't know anything about the Knicks, don't comment. I've watched about 10 Cavs games this year. How many Knick games have you guys seen? Please, the stuff you say about the Knicks are misinformed and unoriginal. They look like they were taken from what ESPN writers write. LOL.

[knicksNOTslick]

I am still question why LeBron would be drawn to a team where 2 of their 3 young, "core" players play the same position that he does. Sure, either can play minutes at the PF spot, but why play your best players out of position? I think NY is better off going after a solid SG, i.e. Joe Johnson.

Wilson has been playing most of his minutes at SG and check out his recent numbers. He's played his best ball so far in his young career. That's not even a worry. Gallo is better suited at SF right now but he's done OK at PF so far (and plenty of us speculate that he'll eventually be a PF.) He'll have to bulk up if he wants to be a full time PF...but he's 6'10 and has been a decent shotblocker so far.

[knicksNOTslick]

The Knicks in the past month have been playing defense and they've been playing hard. You don't even need to watch the games, just look at the box scores. They've held opponents below 100 points in 12 of 15 games in December. The young core of NY plays D (Gallo, Chandler and Douglas while Hill is still a question mark). The Knicks have enough to sign Lee and that core right there is already better than what the Cavs can offer.

I dunno why you keep downplaying Lebron's impact on a team. The Cavs are a good fit for him but it's still not the best fit. Lebron even said it himself that he can win on any team. And non-talent from the Knicks? You sound like you watch too much ESPN. LOL

Come one your kidding right...the knicks have gone 9-6 in that stretch, hardly championship material...Comparing them to the cavs of a few years ago when lebron got here is a good comparison but comparing the cavs w/o lebron and the knicks, is still not even close. Lebron fits so much better in the cavs system. First off we play defense. Second off, for all of mike brown's horrible rotational ability, it is nothing compared to mike dantoni and his refusal to play people just for the hell of it. Example A: 8 people played in the knicks recent overtime win against atlanta. 4 people did not play because of coach's decision. And we wonder (well we dont really) why the knicks seem to take nights off completely, like a week ago when they lost to the nets.

There are countless other reasons the knicks dont make sense, less money, worse players blah blah blah the fact of the matter is that lebron basically took a team to a title run on his back a few years ago and that team was clearly overmatched by a superior team at the end of a season where lebron just played every single minute of every single game and literally could not carry the team any further. That would be what happens if he goes to the knicks and they dont somehow massively overhaul their roster, which is impossible given the money situation.

That blown game against the Nets came off a 2nd game in a back to back when D'Antoni kept all of his players in the game the night before (despite what was already a sure win), they were tired and I agree, that was D'Antoni's fault. I've said it before but to say that the Lebron-less Cavs have significantly better players than the Knicks is wrong. I'll take it that the Nets have a better young core than the Knicks, but the Cavs? I don't think so.

Let's not get it twisted. The players that have been instrumental in the Knicks' turnaround are David Lee, Chandler, Gallo, Jeffries and Duhon. Most of those players are coming back next season. Duhon won't and he's garbage but when he plays like a decent PG, that's when the Knicks win. David Lee most likely will be back next season as well. I don't think the Cavs have a superior team without Lebron, not at all. Your team is Lebron or bust. His presence alone and the fact that the defense has to worry about him every time he's on the floor is why you guys think your players are so good. Don't get me wrong, you guys have good players but don't overrate them because Lebron makes them better.

[mcfly1204]

I am still question why LeBron would be drawn to a team where 2 of their 3 young, "core" players play the same position that he does. Sure, either can play minutes at the PF spot, but why play your best players out of position? I think NY is better off going after a solid SG, i.e. Joe Johnson.

Wilson has been playing most of his minutes at SG and check out his recent numbers. He's played his best ball so far in his young career. That's not even a worry. Gallo is better suited at SF right now but he's done OK at PF so far (and plenty of us speculate that he'll eventually be a PF.) He'll have to bulk up if he wants to be a full time PF...but he's 6'10 and has been a decent shotblocker so far.

Chandler also can't hit the 3 ball with any kind of consistency, remember, LeBron needs floor spacing. What you are talking about is a recipe for disaster. Mo/West/Gibson/Hickson/Varejao/Moon/Parker > Gallo/Chandler/Hill/Douglas/Jefferies. If Cleveland adds a solid PF or C, they're set. NY needs to try to resign Lee, find a starting PG, as well as other pieces that will fit with LeBron, i.e. a shooting guard that can shoot.

[TheOUTLAW]

I can't see any scenario that the Knicks would be able to keep Lee and even pursue LeBron. Personally I don't think they have much of any shot to get him.

[knicksNOTslick]

I am still question why LeBron would be drawn to a team where 2 of their 3 young, "core" players play the same position that he does. Sure, either can play minutes at the PF spot, but why play your best players out of position? I think NY is better off going after a solid SG, i.e. Joe Johnson.

Wilson has been playing most of his minutes at SG and check out his recent numbers. He's played his best ball so far in his young career. That's not even a worry. Gallo is better suited at SF right now but he's done OK at PF so far (and plenty of us speculate that he'll eventually be a PF.) He'll have to bulk up if he wants to be a full time PF...but he's 6'10 and has been a decent shotblocker so far.

Chandler also can't hit the 3 ball with any kind of consistency, remember, LeBron needs floor spacing. What you are talking about is a recipe for disaster. Mo/West/Gibson/Hickson/Varejao/Moon/Parker > Gallo/Chandler/Hill/Douglas/Jefferies. If Cleveland adds a solid PF or C, they're set. NY needs to try to resign Lee, find a starting PG, as well as other pieces that will fit with LeBron, i.e. a shooting guard that can shoot.

Chandler might not shoot the 3 consistently (though his corner 3 is improving) but he's very consistent with the midrange shot. Gallo can space the floor if he plays at PF, so that makes up for it. Douglas is not a good distributor but he can play a Mo Williams type of role (definitely far from Mo in terms of impact offensively but you know what I mean) at PG if the Knicks don't find a starting PG. The Knicks still have a chance at retaining Lee but they'll have to make some changes to the roster. The Knicks can backload David Lee's deal and sign him to something like $8.5M. It's up to his agent if he demands more. You see what I'm talking about? The Knicks are not as bad a fit as you think. And please, don't overrate your players and underrate ours. Watch the games first.

[mcfly1204]

I am not overrating anything here. It is what it is. I don't even think the Knicks will be that bad next season, I am just pretty certain someone like Joe Johnson or Amare will be there go-to guy, not LeBron. I think the Nets still have a better case for acquiring LeBron than the Knicks.

[knicksNOTslick]

I am not overrating anything here. It is what it is. I don't even think the Knicks will be that bad next season, I am just pretty certain someone like Joe Johnson or Amare will be there go-to guy, not LeBron. I think the Nets still have a better case for acquiring LeBron than the Knicks.

Why not Lebron? Cuz he's on your team? LOL The Nets have a better young core but their overall situation and reputation is unstable. They have a new Russian owner we don't know much about and they're moving to Brooklyn in 3 years. That's not a stable franchise.

[mcfly1204]

I am not overrating anything here. It is what it is. I don't even think the Knicks will be that bad next season, I am just pretty certain someone like Joe Johnson or Amare will be there go-to guy, not LeBron. I think the Nets still have a better case for acquiring LeBron than the Knicks.

Why not Lebron? Cuz he's on your team? LOL The Nets have a better young core but their overall situation and reputation is unstable. They have a new Russian owner we don't know much about and they're moving to Brooklyn in 3 years. That's not a stable franchise.

See above posts. LeBron wants to win, not wait to rebuild another team.

[knicksNOTslick]

I am not overrating anything here. It is what it is. I don't even think the Knicks will be that bad next season, I am just pretty certain someone like Joe Johnson or Amare will be there go-to guy, not LeBron. I think the Nets still have a better case for acquiring LeBron than the Knicks.

Why not Lebron? Cuz he's on your team? LOL The Nets have a better young core but their overall situation and reputation is unstable. They have a new Russian owner we don't know much about and they're moving to Brooklyn in 3 years. That's not a stable franchise.

See above posts. LeBron wants to win, not wait to rebuild another team.

Lebron on the Knicks is not a rebuilding team. Like I said, watch a Knick game before you make assumptions.

[mcfly1204]

Sorry, but for some reason (they're not good), they don't nationally televise many Knicks games.

[knicksNOTslick]

Sorry, but for some reason (they're not good), they don't nationally televise many Knicks games.

I understand that about the Knicks. That's why I never take what outsiders say about the Knicks as a fair report...because I doubt non-Knick fans watch our games. A lot of people who share their assessment of our team generally don't know what they're talking about and just go off with what so-called experts write about them. The reason why I went to the Cavs board is because a bunch of Cavs fans went over to the Knicks board and one even made himself look foolish by giving an "outsider's perspective" of the Knicks. He got so much info wrong (even saying that Chandler's a PF and his 5.5 rebounds suck because of that). If you do it the other way, plenty of Knick fans have seen the Cavs, your games are televised nationally due to Lebron. So our opinion of your team>>>>>your opinion of our team.

FYI, The Knicks-Cats game will be shown on NBA TV tonight. It's the only one scheduled for today.

[TheOUTLAW]

To be honest, I couldn't care less about the Knicks and if you want to talk Knicks, go to the Knicks board. This is tedious.

[JonFromVA]

4 out of 5 Knicks starters are possibly returning next season. Danilo Gallinari, Wilson Chandler, Jared Jeffries and David Lee ALL start for the Knicks, 3 of them are under contract and have been instrumental in our wins. Lee is the question mark, he's been awesome and the Knicks have a chance to retain him depending on how much he's asking (if he agrees to a contract starting at $8.5 million, the Knicks can retain him if no moves are made).

The guys you are talking about that have a great chance to be released (Al Harrington, Hughes, Nate, Darko)... They all come off the bench. LOL

And Larry Hughes was starting for you guys up until the point he got hurt, yet again. Now Jared Jeffries? A man who's been ignored and scorned for years is part of your core? He better make the all defensive team, 'cause his offensive numbers make Ben Wallace look like Kareem.

Chris Duhon has started as many games as any other Knick. Hughes only 4 less than Jeffries. By minutes played, Al Harrington is #4.

In terms of 82games's simple rating system, your 5 most effective players are Robinson, Gallinari, Lee, Hughes, Chandler, and Harrington, and you'll only have the rights to two of them.

[JonFromVA]

and one even made himself look foolish by giving an "outsider's perspective" of the Knicks. He got so much info wrong (even saying that Chandler's a PF and his 5.5 rebounds suck because of that).

No, I said Chandler wasn't going to be playing SF on a team with LeBron, and that he's not going to play PF because he's undersized and not a good enough rebounder.

Just because D'Antoni keeps moving his players around from game to game doesn't turn them in to something they're not.

Jeffries, Gallinari, Chandler ... they're all SFs, the same position as LeBron. Good luck convincing LeBron he should join a team who's core all play his position.

[knicksNOTslick]

And Larry Hughes was starting for you guys up until the point he got hurt, yet again. Now Jared Jeffries? A man who's been ignored and scorned for years is part of your core? He better make the all defensive team, 'cause his offensive numbers make Ben Wallace look like Kareem.

Chris Duhon has started as many games as any other Knick. Hughes only 4 less than Jeffries. By minutes played, Al Harrington is #4.

In terms of 82games's simple rating system, your 5 most effective players are Robinson, Gallinari, Lee, Hughes, Chandler, and Harrington, and you'll only have the rights to two of them.

You are using ratings system to tell us who our most effective players are? You don't watch Knick games so you don't know what you're talking about. Robinson has only played in like what? 12 games and you say he's our most effective player? LOL And Harrington? Hughes is as good as gone, he hasn't been that important recently. He was playing well for a stretch but he's too inconsistent.

From watching games, the people who are our most effective players... Lee, Chandler, Gallo, Jeffries, Duhon. When these guys play well, the Knicks almost always win. What Jeffries does for us will not show up in stat sheets. If I could, I would ship him out because of his contract but I put him part of our core because he's under contract after 2010 and he's starting for the Knicks.

Again and I can't stress it enough, if you're going to say something about the Knicks, watch the games first. Don't just go to the Knick board acting like you have an outsider's analysis of the Knicks just because you look at stats. Anyone can do that.

No, I said Chandler wasn't going to be playing SF on a team with LeBron, and that he's not going to play PF because he's undersized and not a good enough rebounder.

Just because D'Antoni keeps moving his players around from game to game doesn't turn them in to something they're not.

Jeffries, Gallinari, Chandler ... they're all SFs, the same position as LeBron. Good luck convincing LeBron he should join a team who's core all play his position.

How many times do I have to tell you that Chandler has played most of his minutes at SG this season? Look at his recent numbers, he's putting up pretty good stats for a guy you say is "playing out of position."

You guys don't listen so in an effort to prevent you from receiving a warning, I'll just kill the entire thing.