Coexisting - Amare&Shaq

[tidho]

Some of the National media seems to be making a big deal about this being a problem, anyone agree?

I just don't see it.
Amare and JJ play the same style and it hasn't been a problem for Shaq and JJ. Amare just has more offensive range, again shouldn't be a problem. There are also 20 minutes a night when Shaq isn't on the floor. Teamed with Z or Andy, Amare can hang down low as much as he wants.

The media raised questions about Shaq and LeBron too, obviously that's worked out fine. Ever sinse the big mid season trade a couple years ago I think Ferry has done an excellent job improving the team without messing with the team roles. For instance...
Parker is a better Wally
Moon is a better Sasha
Shaq is a better Wallace
and not Amare is a better Hickson (if the deal goes down)
even the backup plan fits, Murphy is a better Z.

I don't think Ferry gets enough credit for this. Hopefully the Amare deal comes through.

[prekazi]

It's a stupid myth. If JJ-Shaq can coexist, Amare-Shaq can coexist 5 times better. That being said I still don't think that we'll be able to land Amare.

[hard work]

They coexisted just fine in Phoenix...not sure why it suddenly wouldn't work.

[JonFromVA]

There were times they played well together in Phoenix too, but fact is the ideal player next to Shaq would have a solid jumper (check), be able to play off the attention he draws (check), and be able to help cover for his lack of mobility on D (oops).

You can't have everyone on the team avoiding drawing fouls, somebody has to be willing to throw their body at a driving player who slips past the first line of defense and try to block or contest a shot.

I have no clue if that light will go on for Amare, but if we have to we can break Shaq and Amare up.

[VRafa10s]

Lebron can make anyone coexist. He is the ultimate playmaker. I think he actually thrives with more superstars than without, because his assist ratio goes up and he doesn't have to do so much himself.

[wizardg]

What really happened is that Nash was exposed as the system PG he's always been. Forced into a traditional offense he dissapointed.
But whenever the Suns faltered someone else had to be blamed.
LeBron wont have that problem because he is great in half court and full court with the middle clogged as well as open.
With Amare/Shaq the Suns needed Nash to hit open jumpers and score in space. Nash couldn't adjust

I'm a Spur fan. The 3 toughest players we have ever dealt with are
1. Shaq
2. tie between Amare and Kobe.

Here is a sampling of 11 straight playoff games Amare has had against my Spurs 05-08 the last three are post surgury and with Shaq.
26 9 3 steals
38 12 4 blks (elimination game)
41 9 1
37 8 2
34 11
31 5 1 1
42 16 4 blks (elimination game)

33 7
33 7
28 11

[Rise Against]

Amare will be fine with Shaq, if we were to get him.. LeBron will make it work.

[prekazi]

From Amare's twitter:

I play very well with Shaq. I adverage more pts last year WITH him an played better D.You guys can stop saying we don't play well together.

[Mezotarkus]

The latest has the Cavs trading Shaq+first to the Wizards for Jamison+filler if the Cavs land Amare.

[Rise Against]

The latest has the Cavs trading Shaq+first to the Wizards for Jamison+filler if the Cavs land Amare.

If you got that from Chad Ford, then that is just horse crap.

[sunsfever68]

The rumors of him and Shaq not getting along are completely legit. I have friends who work for the Suns in the locker room who constantly heard them arguing and they put on a front that they liked each other. Nash hated Shaq too.

Amare doesn't want to go to Cleveland and your offer of JJ Hickson for Amare is absolute horsecrap. You guys would get the biggest steal in the world if you got Amare who would bring you a title easily if you trade a role player for an all star starter. Amare is easily the best offensive big man in the game. You guys have a sad history as a franchise so I guess I'd be happy for you guys to win a title but dang our owner the suns robert sarver is the biggest idiot in the world I hope he burns in hell if he makes this trade.

Just to put it in perspective.


Fair Value for Amare(resigned to an extension)

Mo Williams
Delonte West
JJ hickson

[Rise Against]

^^The Suns are well over the cap, so trading Amare for Hickson and Z would put them under the luxury tax.. And there is a post from JA Adande that talks about Amare and Shaq.. Now I don't know anything about your friends, but I think that JA's info beats anything your "friends" have to say about them.

The tweet of the day goes to Amare Stoudemire, who got so frustrated at the misconceptions he felt compelled to write “I play very well with Shaq…You guys can stop saying we don’t play well together.”

Bad info flows like an avalanche before the trade deadline, and somehow the gathering stream of snow scooped up the notion that Amare Stoudemire and Shaquille O’Neal couldn’t co-exist in Phoenix, so they wouldn’t work together if Stoudemire gets traded to Cleveland.

A little revision is in order. It’s not that Stoudemire couldn’t play well next to O’Neal; he didn’t play as well next to O’Neal under Terry Porter’s system.

Stoudemire did just fine with Shaq in the house while the Suns were running Mike D’Antoni’s offense. Since Shaq didn’t start playing for the Suns until the first game after the All-Star break in 2008 it’s very easy to look at life with and without the Diesel. Before the break Stoudemire averaged 23.2 points on 59% shooting. After the break, playing alongside O’Neal, Stoudemire upped his scoring average to 28 points per game while maintaining that 59% field goal percentage.

It’s not as if there was a long adjustment period. In his first game with Shaq, Stoudemire was so out of whack, so befuddled by the big man’s presence that he scored 37 points and grabbed 15 rebounds in a 130-124 loss to the Lakers. In the next game, against the Celtics, Stoudemire had 28 points while attempting 23 field goals to O’Neal’s five, while Shaq did the heavy lifting on the boards, with 14 rebounds to Stoudemire’s six.

The next season Porter took over and made establishing O’Neal in the low post a priority. It altered Steve Nash’s game, altered Stoudemire’s scoring, and knocked the franchise so far off-kilter that they abandoned the experiment, ditched Porter at the All-Star break, moved Alvin Gentry down the bench and reinstated Seven Seconds or Less. Stoudemire’s scoring had dropped to 21 points per game before the coaching change. But once Gentry took off the restrictor plates on the Suns’ offense Stoudemire zoomed back to top speed. He scored 23 points in 20 minutes as the Suns demolished the Clippers 140-100. Then he went for 42 points as the Suns scored 142 against the Clippers the very next night.

That was also the game in which he injured his eye, which shut him down for the rest of the season. The Suns traded O’Neal over the summer, so for now that’s the last evidence we have of their ability to co-exist. I’d say they get along nicely.

There’s risk involved for the Cavs in acquiring Stoudemire. They would be altering the chemistry of a team that produced the best record in the league so far, a group that’s riding a 13-game winning streak. Stoudemire is not a strong individual defender or defensive rebounder. But the notion that O’Neal mere presence on the court hinders Stoudemire is erroneous. If anything, it would be even less of an issue in Cleveland since O’Neal isn’t a focal point of the offense there.

Stoudemire tweet was dead right…it just takes a little more than 140 characters to explain why.

[enigmatics]

.... Cavs fans, a quick question ........

Why would you want two players so absolutely horrid at defending the pick-n-roll? As a Suns fan I got to witness the major defensive liabilities these two posed on the court together. There's also not a doubt in my mind that Shaq taking up space in the paint limited Amare's effectiveness. Amare needs SPACING to operate. That's why he was so lethal pre-Shaq (not to mention pre-microfacture). He would tear up oppposing 5's. Not to mention you don't run a D'Antoni style system.

[tidho]

.... Cavs fans, a quick question ........

Why would you want two players so absolutely horrid at defending the pick-n-roll? As a Suns fan I got to witness the major defensive liabilities these two posed on the court together. There's also not a doubt in my mind that Shaq taking up space in the paint limited Amare's effectiveness. Amare needs SPACING to operate. That's why he was so lethal pre-Shaq (not to mention pre-microfacture). He would tear up oppposing 5's. Not to mention you don't run a D'Antoni style system.

The key is its a different system. JJ Hickson plays just like Amare (although not as well). Amare will fit into that role.
The Shaq taking up space has been an argument sinse they brought him here. It hasn't materialized into an issue. First LeBron wouldn't be able to drive because Shaq is in the lane (well guess what, just like they did with Ben Wallace, the Cavs got him out of the way) now Amare won't be able to operate because Shaq is in the way (well guess what just like they've done with JJ, they'll get Amare the basketball moving to the basket where he can be the elite finisher that he is).

Of course, the deal isn't done yet.

[enigmatics]

The key is its a different system. JJ Hickson plays just like Amare (although not as well). Amare will fit into that role.
The Shaq taking up space has been an argument sinse they brought him here. It hasn't materialized into an issue. First LeBron wouldn't be able to drive because Shaq is in the lane (well guess what, just like they did with Ben Wallace, the Cavs got him out of the way) now Amare won't be able to operate because Shaq is in the way (well guess what just like they've done with JJ, they'll get Amare the basketball moving to the basket where he can be the elite finisher that he is).

Of course, the deal isn't done yet.

If JJ Hickson played like Amare, this trade isn't even being discussed.

Comparing Lebron's spacing needs to that of Amare's is also not legitimate. Amare plays from about 18 feet on in. Lebron plays everywhere on the court.

I noticed you also didn't address the defense. Go download a Suns game from last season and watch the two of them play matador with the pick and roll.

[bcortell]

Not really on the topic of Amare and Shaq, but anyone else think about Amare and AV. Now that would be a good combo to have out there together..