Game 61 | Cavs vs Knicks | Mar 1st 2010 | 7:00pm EST

[Rise Against]

31 point lead.. It doesn't get much better than this. I'm expecting for the Nets game to be much closer.

[TheOUTLAW]

Even Jawad started schooling Gallinari at the end.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Jamison quietly puts up huge stat lines.

In 29 mins he had 17pts/12 rebs on 8-14 shooting. He does it so effortlessly.

[TheOUTLAW]

While I don't think we are better without Shaq and Z we are ridiculously athletic without them on the floor especially when you have a team that has no post threat like the Knickerbockers

[L&H_05]

Even Jawad started schooling Gallinari at the end.

Yea, I don't really see anything that Gallo does particularly well... He's a poor man's JJ Redick...Thank goodness they drafted Jordan Hill... Wait, he's a Rocket...

[Triumph36]

Even Jawad started schooling Gallinari at the end.

Yea, I don't really see anything that Gallo does particularly well... He's a poor man's JJ Redick...Thank goodness they drafted Jordan Hill... Wait, he's a Rocket...

Your simple mind just cannot see the flashes of Kevin Durant that Gallo displays!

[Niko23]

T minus 20 minutes before Knicks fans declare Bill Walker the next KG/Benard King/Kobe.....

[TheOUTLAW]

Knicks fans are actually quite interesting. Now I might have missed it but they are kinda upset, saying that LeBron was basically showing them up. I didn't see the dancing and while it might have been the feed (FSOH) I didn't see LeBron or the Cavs really doing much of anything while on the bench. I have no idea why people think that the guys are supposed to be dower after a teammate makes a good play. That they will do, they are always going to celebrate a good play especially if it causes a team to call a timeout. to me, that's no where near as bad as when Wade dunked on Varejao and he ran over and jumped on the scorers table scream "this is my house". Eh, LeBron just gets bad press from those that the Cavs beat.

[Knicksick]

For your guys' sanity--pray that Lebron stays. As a long long time Knick fan I promise you one thing: Have a superstar of James calibur on your team and mediocre players look much better than they really are. Take James off your team and there isn't the slightest doubt in my mind you'd be fighting to win 25 games just like the Knicks. If you believe that guys like Hickson,Varejao would look anywhere close to decent without a guy like Lebron you are as delusional as Knick fans who believe Mike D'Antoni is a good coach. Varejao , if not set up perfectly by James on 98% of his baskets, would struggle to average 3 points per game in the NBA. Hickson if not set up perfectly would struggle to average 4 points.
Take that superstar out and watch a team crumble like a soft cookie.
Vice versa put a superstar of James calibur on a sorry team like the Knicks and watch guys like Gallo or Chandler or Lee become much much better than they really are. Gallinari shot 46% from 3 point range last season as an unknown (getting a lot of open looks). What percentages do you think would he shoot with a guy like Lebron setting him up perfectly?

Cavs fans thinking their team without Lebron is anywhere close to average are as delusional as Knick fans thinking Lebron is definitely gonna come to the big apple in a few months.
Cavs minus Lebron =25 win team
Knicks in their current state= Lebron would be crazy to join (good thing we have at least our draft picks for the future...oh wait...)

[mcfly1204]

For your guys' sanity--pray that Lebron stays. As a long long time Knick fan I promise you one thing: Have a superstar of James calibur on your team and mediocre players look much better than they really are. Take James off your team and there isn't the slightest doubt in my mind you'd be fighting to win 25 games just like the Knicks. If you believe that guys like Hickson,Varejao would look anywhere close to decent without a guy like Lebron you are as delusional as Knick fans who believe Mike D'Antoni is a good coach. Varejao , if not set up perfectly by James on 98% of his baskets, would struggle to average 3 points per game in the NBA. Hickson if not set up perfectly would struggle to average 4 points.
Take that superstar out and watch a team crumble like a soft cookie.
Vice versa put a superstar of James calibur on a sorry team like the Knicks and watch guys like Gallo or Chandler or Lee become much much better than they really are. Gallinari shot 46% from 3 point range last season as an unknown (getting a lot of open looks). What percentages do you think would he shoot with a guy like Lebron setting him up perfectly?

Cavs fans thinking their team without Lebron is anywhere close to average are as delusional as Knick fans thinking Lebron is definitely gonna come to the big apple in a few months.
Cavs minus Lebron =25 win team
Knicks in their current state= Lebron would be crazy to join (good thing we have at least our draft picks for the future...oh wait...)

So do you have any basketball knowledge? The Cavs without LeBron would still defend. Varejao and Hickson are very active, that is not something that would disappear if LeBron left. Mo/West/Jamison/Varejao/Shaq would still be a better team than the current Knicks.

[Baseline Runner]

Agreed, the Cavs would be a .500+ team without Lebron this year.

[Triumph36]

Cavs without LeBron >>>>>>>>>>> Knicks team next year that will "recruit" LeBron

[Niko23]

For your guys' sanity--pray that Lebron stays. As a long long time Knick fan I promise you one thing: Have a superstar of James calibur on your team and mediocre players look much better than they really are. Take James off your team and there isn't the slightest doubt in my mind you'd be fighting to win 25 games just like the Knicks. If you believe that guys like Hickson,Varejao would look anywhere close to decent without a guy like Lebron you are as delusional as Knick fans who believe Mike D'Antoni is a good coach. Varejao , if not set up perfectly by James on 98% of his baskets, would struggle to average 3 points per game in the NBA. Hickson if not set up perfectly would struggle to average 4 points.
Take that superstar out and watch a team crumble like a soft cookie.
Vice versa put a superstar of James calibur on a sorry team like the Knicks and watch guys like Gallo or Chandler or Lee become much much better than they really are. Gallinari shot 46% from 3 point range last season as an unknown (getting a lot of open looks). What percentages do you think would he shoot with a guy like Lebron setting him up perfectly?

Cavs fans thinking their team without Lebron is anywhere close to average are as delusional as Knick fans thinking Lebron is definitely gonna come to the big apple in a few months.
Cavs minus Lebron =25 win team
Knicks in their current state= Lebron would be crazy to join (good thing we have at least our draft picks for the future...oh wait...)

Precious Knicks fans still in denial.......

[TheOUTLAW]

Agreed, the Cavs would be a .500+ team without Lebron this year.

I agree that LeBron is the catalyst for the Cavs and he makes a huge difference for this team. He's the teams best offensive and defensive player (no offense to Varejao) because of his versatility. That being said, the Cavs would still be pretty good without LeBron.

Of course, the injuries to Mo and Shaq would have hurt a ton more without LeBron and the Cavs age of some of it's major cogs would be a problem next year. But the team still has more talent than a few other teams with Shaq (hopefully Z) Anderson, Delonte, Mo, Hickson, Jawad, etc.

It really is not Cavs fans that don't give these guys respect, it appears to be the loud opinions of sore losers. I think that just about everyone on the Cavs team can and should be rotation players in the NBA (Jackson is my only question mark). That's a tremendous amount of depth.

[Knicksick]

Not in denial and definitely not a sore loser. Just very experienced in the "This and that mediocre player is good and hardworking and would do bla bla bla game....."

Go team by team, take Lebron out and you have a hard time convincing any NBA fan outside of Cleveland that the Cavs are top 25 in the NBA.

[TheOUTLAW]

As a general rule people understate the Cavs players because they overrate young players and think that several Cavs players are overpaid. That still doesn't mean that they wouldn't be able to score and play defense well enough to be a 500 team. The problem that people seldom think about is the fact that teams have to play defense as well.

I also think people don't pay enough attention to how difficult it is for teams to get the stench of losing off of a squad. Very often it takes moving players away for less than fair value just for players to get rid of the losing mentality. Cavs players are generally used to winning and do whatever it takes to win.

[Knicksick]

As a general rule people understate the Cavs players because they overrate young players and think that several Cavs players are overpaid. That still doesn't mean that they wouldn't be able to score and play defense well enough to be a 500 team. The problem that people seldom think about is the fact that teams have to play defense as well.

I also think people don't pay enough attention to how difficult it is for teams to get the stench of losing off of a squad. Very often it takes moving players away for less than fair value just for players to get rid of the losing mentality. Cavs players are generally used to winning and do whatever it takes to win.

Take Lebron out. what good defender do you have left?Varejao is the only one, the only good defender. A scrappy player that does a lot of the little things on the court. Who else?
Mo Williams?Dude was a crap defender in Milwaukee on a losing team. Gibson?
Moon?Hickson?Z?Jamison?
The only other dude that can play good defense is West but that's about it.
The rest of the guys: Take the leader out and watch them crumble. 25 out of 30 teams in the NBA have the type of mediocre or decent players (Mo Williams,Z,Jamison) that accomplish nothing but 30 win seasons every single year.

Now don't get me wrong. I personally don't even think that Lebron is gonna leave but if you think your team wins 40 games without Lebron is as delusional as Knick fans thinking Lebron is a lock to join. Take a look at this list:

GS---Ellis,Biedrins,Maggette
Bulls---Rose,Deng,Noah,
Detroit---Hamilton,Prince,Gordon,
Indiana---Murphy,Granger,Hibbert
Clippers---Davis,Kaman,Camby(now Portland)
Memphis---Gasol,Zach,Mayo,Gay
Minnesota---Jefferson,Love,Flynn
New Jersey---Harris,Lopez,Yi
Philly---Iguodala,Williams,Dalembert
Sacramento---Martin,Evans,Thompson
Washington---Haywood,Butler,Jamison

That's 11 teams that often seem to be in the 25-38 range. I assume that after Lebron your best players are Williams,Shaq,Jamison?Go on the general board and ask all NBA fans to rank those trios and I bet 90% of them would rank Williams,Shaq,Jamison among the worst 3 or 4. Some have changed due to trades but the point is about getting a feel for those 30 win teams and what kind of talent they have. I'd personally say that almost all the listed trios are equal or better than Williams,Shaq,Jamison and I'm fairly positive that most fans around the league view it the same way....

[TheOUTLAW]

Delonte is a very good defender and Moon is also better than average. There are people that'd say that the Knicks or the Nets had a better 3 than the Cavs without LeBron. But they'd be wrong. They'd be taking something into consideration other than talent or how they play. They'd be looking at something completely irrelevant like age, contract or upside which have absolutely nothing to do with how they are playing now.

Positive or no, you'd be wrong. And there is more to putting together a team than its' 3 best players. Especially since there are 5 on a lineup and 15 on a team. Even without LeBron the Cavs would have more depth than most teams.

[tidho]

Its tough to say how good the Cavaliers would be without LeBron being that he's so important to the offense. We'd need Delonte to play 40 minutes a night in order to play the same style, so likely it would change a bit.

I still think the Cavaliers would be .500 becuase there are a lot of bad teams and Cleveland actually plays defense. They'd still have 3 guys (when healthy) capable of scoring 20 points every night, which is more than a lot of teams. There depth would still be solid too, although they would be specifically lean at the 3, Parker and Jamison would be defensive liabilities at that position.

Nice thing is we don't have to worry about that.