Wolstat: Cleveland overpaid and may regret dealing Wiggins

[Flight33]

Cleveland will regret it if they don't win a title with Love and Wiggins becomes a top 10 player. If Cleveland wins a title, then this all gets thrown out of the window.

[antistrat]

They didn't get tired due to the depth of S.A. and the fact that they rested their starters down the stretch. No one drafts and accrues talent like the Spurs - they have the single best eye for talent and developing potential in the Association. If Cleveland want to go that route, then the Cavs have to start developing players and bringing in under the radar talents instead of going with the Heat's plan of bringing in old, fading vets.

They don't really have to do that because Irving and Love are young players. They're not in their 30s like Wade and Bosh. So it's like the Spurs method but in reverse - the stars are young and the support is old. That's probably the best way to do it because you can always bring in solid vets at a discount hungry for rings - and it should work better because, unlike in Miami, your Big 3 isn't also 30+.

So, unlike Miami who could only manage a run of 4 years due to an aging Wade, the Cavs should be able to get away with this for much longer.

[improper]

Cleveland will regret it if they don't win a title with Love and Wiggins becomes a top 10 players. If Cleveland wins a title, then this all gets thrown out of the window.

But will Wiggins become a top ten player? I have my doubts. He's very raw offensively (not a good dribbler, not a great shooter, can't go left at all, turnover prone, can't finish through contact), and I can't remember too many elite wing prospects who were so limited in their court vision and passing ability. His athleticism is obviously jaw dropping, but right now he looks like an elite athlete that plays basketball rather than a guy with a legitimate feel for the game.

Obviously learning under LeBron could be huge for him, but as a fan of a city that hasn't seen a title in fifty years, I'm elated that we're in the position to be championship or bust for possibly the next half-decade or longer. As much as I like watching young players develop, I'd rather watch my team contend for titles.

[Flight33]

Cleveland will regret it if they don't win a title with Love and Wiggins becomes a top 10 players. If Cleveland wins a title, then this all gets thrown out of the window.

But will Wiggins become a top ten player? I have my doubts. He's very raw offensively (not a good dribbler, not a great shooter, can't go left at all, turnover prone, can't finish through contact), and I can't remember too many elite wing prospects who were so limited in their court vision and passing ability. His athleticism is obviously jaw dropping, but right now he looks like an elite athlete that plays basketball rather than a guy with a legitimate feel for the game.

Obviously learning under LeBron could be huge for him, but as a fan of a city that hasn't seen a title in fifty years, I'm elated that we're in the position to be championship or bust for possibly the next half-decade or longer. As much as I like watching young players develop, I'd rather watch my team contend for titles.

Dribbling is something you can work on in the offseason, not a big deal( ala Durant). In the 2nd half of the college season he shot a better field goal percentage than Jabari Parker, and in summer he showed he has a good mid range game, though I will concede his 3 point shot is suspect. I'm not sure about the can't go left at all, and even if he can't that isn't a big deal as Lebron can't go to his right at all and he seemed to have turned out just fine. His passing is actually much better than people give him credit for.

I understand that the Cavs are in win now mode and I can appreciate that, and frankly I hope the Cavs win a title in the next 4 years. I am just stating the fact that this can backfire horribly if the Cavs DON'T win the title. They still have 0 rim protection, and Kevin Love has never been an above average on ball defender. But when your best player is your hardest worker, it really rubs off on the rest of the team so we will see.

[ansoncarter]

I think it was the right idea to trade Wiggins, but the wrong idea to trade for kevin love

the right Wiggins trade would have filled every hole in the starting lineup with solid players who compliment lebron and kyrie perfectly

I think the idea of the "Big 3" is a bit mindless, and neither miami or boston owe their success to it. I think Miami would have been even stronger with Lebron and Wade and several solid players who complimented them instead of Bosh and a bunch of stop-gaps. Same with boston and ray allen, he didn't do a whole lot for them imo.

[Benedict_Boozer]

I think it was the right idea to trade Wiggins, but the wrong idea to trade for kevin love

the right Wiggins trade would have filled every hole in the starting lineup with solid players who compliment lebron and kyrie perfectly

I think the idea of the "Big 3" is a bit mindless, and neither miami or boston owe their success to it. I think Miami would have been even stronger with Lebron and Wade and several solid players who complimented them instead of Bosh and a bunch of stop-gaps. Same with boston and ray allen, he didn't do a whole lot for them imo.

Agreed but Lebron will go back to what he knows has worked for him in the past, the big 3 model. He's running the show so not much you can do about it if your Griffin.

[Benedict_Boozer]

Also for the record, maybe someone can explain to me why we are including a 1st round pick in this deal at all?

We reportedly aren't getting any sweetener back in the deal (Turiaf, Dieng) so why are we doing it again?

Wiggins alone is better value than any other package they can receive, so...why are we giving them extra? Especially a Miami pick that could hold significant value and be low to mid teens if Wade goes down with his annual injury? Why not dole them one of our protected picks which will likely be back end of the draft?

Just irks me that Minny is extracting a valuable pick for basically no reason other than Griffin knowing he has to cater to them or risk pissing off Lebron. Lebron coming back saved Minny from getting real crap back in a Love trade, Flip used it effectively against us.

[Mofoo]

#1 draft picks over last 20 years. Who would you pick over Love with what you know now? I will put my thoughts down... Keep in mind I am a bitter, disgusted Wolves fan.

1) Bennett .... Love, easily,

2) Irving..... Love, but close.

3) Wall.... Love. Close, Wall has stepped it up.

4) Griffin.... A wash. In the past it would've been Love, but Griffin has improved his shot.

5) Rose..... Love. Injuries have severely harmed Rose's game which is based on athleticism.

6) Oden..... Love. He was far more hyped than Wiggins, btw.

7) Bargnani..... Love

8) Bogut .... Love

9) Howard..... Howard, though his game seems to be getting worse, not better.

10) LBJ. .... LBJ

11) Ming..... Yao, though it's debatable. Love will have a better career due to Yao's injuries.

12) Brown..... Love

13) KMart.... Love. KMart was good, and had a long career, but had severe injuries right out of the chute.

14) Brand.... Love.

15) Olowakandi..... Love

16) Duncan..... Duncan

17) Iverson.... AI

18) Joe Smith..... Love. We knew Joe's game very well up in MN, unfortunately.

19) G. Robinson.... Love, though Robinson had a decent career.

20) Shaq..... Shaq

Love - 13
#1's. - 6 (Shaq, Duncan, AI, Howard, Yao, LBJ)
Pick'em- 1(Griffin)

An argument can be made for Wall( disappointing till recently), Irving( young), and Rose( injuries might be turning him into Grant Hill, I.e. A very good role player?) being at least a wash.

An argument can be made against Yao due to his short career.

I don't know what sort of player Howard is anymore. At the 7 year mark of their respective careers Howard was more valuable, but I suspect that Love will have the better overall career.

It's interesting looking over the past 20 years to see that the only player that slightly resembled Wiggins was LBJ. Robinson, maybe, but he was always more of a shooter than an athletic defender.

Seven out of the 20 have had significant injury problems. Wall, Rose, Yao, KMart, Yao, Bogut, Howard.

Could not agree more. Bottom line is; why Cavs should take risk and wait for Wiggins to develop to a true winner while on the other hand they have the leagues best player (soon turning 30) and have opportunity to complement him with proven winner.

Teams prioritize investing in future when the present teams are hopeless and rubbish. Cavs was rubbish+Irwing for the last couple of years. With LJ+Love; Cavs is a contender! You dont pass the chance to win "now" for a smaller chance of winning after 3 years.

[moss_is_1]

Also for the record, maybe someone can explain to me why we are including a 1st round pick in this deal at all?

We reportedly aren't getting any sweetener back in the deal (Turiaf, Dieng) so why are we doing it again?

Wiggins alone is better value than any other package they can receive, so...why are we giving them extra? Especially a Miami pick that could hold significant value and be low to mid teens if Wade goes down with his annual injury? Why not dole them one of our protected picks which will likely be back end of the draft?

Just irks me that Minny is extracting a valuable pick for basically no reason other than Griffin knowing he has to cater to them or risk pissing off Lebron. Lebron coming back saved Minny from getting real crap back in a Love trade, Flip used it effectively against us.

I think Chicago jumping in also made it difficult for the Cavs. Chicago could offer a similar package, but more balance and less star power. Butler, Gibson, Mirotic, McDermott, Snell, picks, etc. They have a lot to offer, they just don't have that one elite piece like Wiggins. I think the pick needs to be there fort the value, tbh. Wiggins is a prospect, not an elite player like Love...if Love didn't say he'd resign then I think it would be different.

[mup]

#1 draft picks over last 20 years. Who would you pick over Love with what you know now? I will put my thoughts down... Keep in mind I am a bitter, disgusted Wolves fan.

1) Bennett .... Love, easily,

2) Irving..... Love, but close.

3) Wall.... Love. Close, Wall has stepped it up.

4) Griffin.... A wash. In the past it would've been Love, but Griffin has improved his shot.

5) Rose..... Love. Injuries have severely harmed Rose's game which is based on athleticism.

6) Oden..... Love. He was far more hyped than Wiggins, btw.

7) Bargnani..... Love

8) Bogut .... Love

9) Howard..... Howard, though his game seems to be getting worse, not better.

10) LBJ. .... LBJ

11) Ming..... Yao, though it's debatable. Love will have a better career due to Yao's injuries.

12) Brown..... Love

13) KMart.... Love. KMart was good, and had a long career, but had severe injuries right out of the chute.

14) Brand.... Love.

15) Olowakandi..... Love

16) Duncan..... Duncan

17) Iverson.... AI

18) Joe Smith..... Love. We knew Joe's game very well up in MN, unfortunately.

19) G. Robinson.... Love, though Robinson had a decent career.

20) Shaq..... Shaq

Love - 13
#1's. - 6 (Shaq, Duncan, AI, Howard, Yao, LBJ)
Pick'em- 1(Griffin)

An argument can be made for Wall( disappointing till recently), Irving( young), and Rose( injuries might be turning him into Grant Hill, I.e. A very good role player?) being at least a wash.

An argument can be made against Yao due to his short career.

I don't know what sort of player Howard is anymore. At the 7 year mark of their respective careers Howard was more valuable, but I suspect that Love will have the better overall career.

It's interesting looking over the past 20 years to see that the only player that slightly resembled Wiggins was LBJ. Robinson, maybe, but he was always more of a shooter than an athletic defender.

Seven out of the 20 have had significant injury problems. Wall, Rose, Yao, KMart, Yao, Bogut, Howard.

Could not agree more. Bottom line is; why Cavs should take risk and wait for Wiggins to develop to a true winner while on the other hand they have the leagues best player (soon turning 30) and have opportunity to complement him with proven winner.

Teams prioritize investing in future when the present teams are hopeless and rubbish. Cavs was rubbish+Irwing for the last couple of years. With LJ+Love; Cavs is a contender! You dont pass the chance to win "now" for a smaller chance of winning after 3 years.

Is Love a proven winner? That's part of the debate.


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[Temuhjan]

#1 draft picks over last 20 years. Who would you pick over Love with what you know now? I will put my thoughts down... Keep in mind I am a bitter, disgusted Wolves fan.

1) Bennett .... Love, easily,

2) Irving..... Love, but close.

3) Wall.... Love. Close, Wall has stepped it up.

4) Griffin.... A wash. In the past it would've been Love, but Griffin has improved his shot.

5) Rose..... Love. Injuries have severely harmed Rose's game which is based on athleticism.

6) Oden..... Love. He was far more hyped than Wiggins, btw.

7) Bargnani..... Love

8) Bogut .... Love

9) Howard..... Howard, though his game seems to be getting worse, not better.

10) LBJ. .... LBJ

11) Ming..... Yao, though it's debatable. Love will have a better career due to Yao's injuries.

12) Brown..... Love

13) KMart.... Love. KMart was good, and had a long career, but had severe injuries right out of the chute.

14) Brand.... Love.

15) Olowakandi..... Love

16) Duncan..... Duncan

17) Iverson.... AI

18) Joe Smith..... Love. We knew Joe's game very well up in MN, unfortunately.

19) G. Robinson.... Love, though Robinson had a decent career.

20) Shaq..... Shaq

Love - 13
#1's. - 6 (Shaq, Duncan, AI, Howard, Yao, LBJ)
Pick'em- 1(Griffin)

An argument can be made for Wall( disappointing till recently), Irving( young), and Rose( injuries might be turning him into Grant Hill, I.e. A very good role player?) being at least a wash.

An argument can be made against Yao due to his short career.

I don't know what sort of player Howard is anymore. At the 7 year mark of their respective careers Howard was more valuable, but I suspect that Love will have the better overall career.

It's interesting looking over the past 20 years to see that the only player that slightly resembled Wiggins was LBJ. Robinson, maybe, but he was always more of a shooter than an athletic defender.

Seven out of the 20 have had significant injury problems. Wall, Rose, Yao, KMart, Yao, Bogut, Howard.

While I agree with your observations, it pains me as a Cavs fans we are actually paying your franchise the full 100 cents for the dollar when so many other teams managed to trade for All-Stars for 20 or 30 cents.

[bedjaw]

Nah...as soon as you guys win one this conversation goes away. Even if Wiggins turns into MJII as long as you win a championship you do the trade 100 tines out of 100.

[Vides990]

it pains me as a Cavs fans we are actually paying your franchise the full 100 cents for the dollar when so many other teams managed to trade for All-Stars for 20 or 30 cents.

Cle didn't pay 100 cents, and all stars don't get traded for 20-30 cents, couldn't be more wrong.

[toodles23]

Dribbling is something you can work on in the offseason, not a big deal( ala Durant). In the 2nd half of the college season he shot a better field goal percentage than Jabari Parker, and in summer he showed he has a good mid range game, though I will concede his 3 point shot is suspect.

Dribbling is something that's notoriously difficult to improve; for the most part, you either can dribble, or you can't by the time you enter the NBA. Durant's made some minor improvements, though he's really not significantly different in that department from early in his career - Durant is still highly turnover prone.

On a team with Lebron James and Kyrie Irving, you wouldn't ever want to see a rookie with a suspect jumpshot shooting midrange jumpers as anything other than a desperate last resort. That part of his game would simply have no value on the Cavs.

I'm not sure about the can't go left at all, and even if he can't that isn't a big deal as Lebron can't go to his right at all and he seemed to have turned out just fine. His passing is actually much better than people give him credit for.

Lebron can't go right? Lebron's been completely ambidextrous since he was in High School.

Not sure what you mean by Wiggins passing being better than people give him credit for; he would actually have to pass in the first place to demonstrate that. The guy averaged 1.4 assists in college, and had ONE assist in his four summer league games. His passing game is nonexistent.

[oikosnomos]

I remember when people argued that the world was flat as well.

So you are hundreds of years old?

[ballfan5]

Cleveland didnt overpay for Love. They got a bargain deal on LBJ. Lebron is the GM of Cleveland. If he wants Love then guess what. He gets Love. There are so many things that have to go right in order to win a championship. Cleveland has a chance to do it this year. You have Kyrie, Waiters, and Thompson all on their rookie contracts and capable of producing. You have a coach that is used to winning. You have a chance to put together the two most efficient players in the game on the same team. All this stuff with Love was worked out even before Lebron signed. Lebron knows that he has to get as many rings that he can within the next 5-6 years and Love and Kyrie are his best chances of getting there.