Should mo williams be in the rotation?

lambchop · Post #1 » by **lambchop** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 10:56 pm

What do you guys think about mo williams?
Imo the dude should definitely be getting some minutes. He can still score, create and stretch the floor.
JR and kyrie have been exceptional these last couple of games. But why risk injuring those guys, when you let mo shoulder some of that scoring and shooting burden?

mjj0062 · Post #2 » by **mjj0062** » Thu Jan 7, 2016 11:22 pm

I want Blatt to play the matchups better. If we are needing a spark off the bench then use Mo. Last night we needed defense so he should have went with Delly. Id argue on a game like last night where he wasn't producing much Id give Cunningham some burn because he is like a mix between the two

Post #3 » by **jbk1234** » Fri Jan 8, 2016 5:28 am

Mo can't defend a chair. I mean he can't even defend second string guys anymore and he can't really get going unless he gets a lot of minutes. He's injury insurance at this point.

lambchop · Post #4 » by **lambchop** » Fri Jan 8, 2016 11:26 am

jbk1234 wrote:Mo can't defend a chair. I mean he can't even defend second string guys anymore and he can't really get going unless he gets a lot of minutes. He's injury insurance at this point.

Yea injury insurance definitely. But it's still important he keep his rhythym and confidence up.
Plus I don't see why jr should be playing more than 28 minutes at this point.
Lebron has been averaging 33 minutes the past 5 games, which is great. But imo they should keep it that way and keep JRs and kyries minutes "as low as possible" too. So that they're fresh and healthy during the POs. They have the depth so why not?

yoyoboy · Post #5 » by **yoyoboy** » Fri Jan 8, 2016 1:59 pm

No. His defense is just too bad at this point and it's not like he's great on the offensive end besides the occasional midrange pull up shot. He can't run an offense so he comes in and resorts to chucking. I love Mo, but Delly deserves all the minutes he's getting. Mo should only play during garbage time to be honest.

Dupp · Post #6 » by **Dupp** » Sat Jan 9, 2016 1:23 am

Dont really need him. He should get some minutes but not many.

ThirdEyeSharp · Post #7 » by **ThirdEyeSharp** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:18 am

Mo isn't playing because he hurt his thumb that he's had a few surgeries on. He could absolutely help us. Kyrie and LeBron are the only shot creators out there and Delly can pass better than Mo but I'd love to see what Mo has to offer when he's they finally get him going again. Kyrie and Mo lineups with Love and LeBron on the bench sound interesting imo.

Post #8 » by **jbk1234** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:23 am

ThirdEyeSharp wrote:Mo isn't playing because he hurt his thumb that he's had a few surgeries on. He could absolutely help us. Kyrie and LeBron are the only shot creators out there and Delly can pass better than Mo but I'd love to see what Mo has to offer when he's they finally get him going again. Kyrie and Mo lineups with Love and LeBron on the bench sound interesting imo.

That sounds a lot like the old days of Kyrie/Dion without Dion's ability to defend on the ball.

ThirdEyeSharp · Post #9 » by **ThirdEyeSharp** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:31 am

jbk1234 wrote:
ThirdEyeSharp wrote:Mo isn't playing because he hurt his thumb that he's had a few surgeries on. He could absolutely help us. Kyrie and LeBron are the only shot creators out there and Delly can pass better than Mo but I'd love to see what Mo has to offer when he's they finally get him going again. Kyrie and Mo lineups with Love and LeBron on the bench sound interesting imo.

That sounds a lot like the old days of Kyrie/Dion without Dion's ability to defend on the ball.

We'd likely run a lineup like that against another small lineup where we want to produce a lot of offense. If we could get both of their skill sets to mesh with Thompson at the 5 and whoever at the 3 and 4. It would allow Kyrie to run the show periodically and have a second shot creator to play off while LeBron and Love get a lot run while Kyrie is on the bench so we have offensive cogs out there at all times.

We need to see better rotations and see this team consistently running sets. The Dion comparison is weird because kyrie and Mo can play off eachother where as with Dion it was always him trying to do things alone. He wouldn't embrace an off the ball role here, if he could have he'd still be here.

Post #10 » by **jbk1234** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:38 am

ThirdEyeSharp wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
ThirdEyeSharp wrote:Mo isn't playing because he hurt his thumb that he's had a few surgeries on. He could absolutely help us. Kyrie and LeBron are the only shot creators out there and Delly can pass better than Mo but I'd love to see what Mo has to offer when he's they finally get him going again. Kyrie and Mo lineups with Love and LeBron on the bench sound interesting imo.

That sounds a lot like the old days of Kyrie/Dion without Dion's ability to defend on the ball.

We'd likely run a lineup like that against another small lineup where we want to produce a lot of offense. If we could get both of their skill sets to mesh with Thompson at the 5 and whoever at the 3 and 4. It would allow Kyrie to run the show periodically and have a second shot creator to play off while LeBron and Love get a lot run while Kyrie is on the bench so we have offensive cogs out there at all times.

We need to see better rotations and see this team consistently running sets. The Dion comparison is weird because kyrie and Mo can play off eachother where as with Dion it was always him trying to do things alone. He wouldn't embrace an off the ball role here, if he could have he'd still be here.

Well Kyrie's only been back a couple of weeks and he's been on minutes restriction so I'm not sure how people are getting on Blatt for rotations when we don't even have the Big 3 where the need to be on a consistent basis yet. I'm all for staggering substitutions but having your primary guys function as a unit needs to be the first order of business. With respect to Mo, he can't guard a chair and Kyrie is a bad defender. They both like to have the ball in their hands and their both shooters.

ThirdEyeSharp · Post #11 » by **ThirdEyeSharp** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:43 am

Teams these days are building lineups that have d ratings of 108 and higher because they produce points at o ratings of 116 and higher. If you are outscoring opponents that's what matters, and if it isn't working you make adjustments.

I'd love to see our big 3 get it going, but that's not gonna happen as long as we keep running a slow offense through LeBron. He is not making it happen from that mid post and it is actually negating Kyries effectiveness because he is best when the floor is spaced and the ball is moving. We need to find that ball movement and ditch this LeBron iso stuff, Kyrie needs to be the initiator. Of course he will defer to LeBron in the right moments but let him find his way there. Kyrie being a consistent scoring machine again is the most pressing issue on this team right now imo. And maybe some lineups that manufacture high scoring numbers and good tempo could lead him that way.

And to add in this edit: Mo can spot up and shoot and play off Kyries ability to get to the rim and our bigs rolling yo the basket. And I'm talking about this lineup being featured in a concentrated fashion, not a consistent minute eating lineup.

Post #12 » by **jbk1234** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 4:59 am

ThirdEyeSharp wrote:Teams these days are building lineups that have d ratings of 108 and higher because they produce points at o ratings of 116 and higher. If you are outscoring opponents that's what matters, and if it isn't working you make adjustments.

I'd love to see our big 3 get it going, but that's not gonna happen as long as we keep running a slow offense through LeBron. He is not making it happen from that mid post and it is actually negating Kyries effectiveness because he is best when the floor is spaced and the ball is moving. We need to find that ball movement and ditch this LeBron iso stuff, Kyrie needs to be the initiator. Of course he will defer to LeBron in the right moments but let him find his way there. Kyrie being a consistent scoring machine again is the most pressing issue on this team right now imo. And maybe some lineups that manufacture high scoring numbers and good tempo could lead him that way.

And to add in this edit: Mo can spot up and shoot and play off Kyries ability to get to the rim and our bigs rolling yo the basket. And I'm talking about this lineup being featured in a concentrated fashion, not a consistent minute eating lineup.

I have several problems with letting Kyrie run the offense: (1) He over dribbles and misses assist opportunities because of it, (2) when the other team has good interior defenders he continues to drive anyway which usually results in a bad shot and/or turnover, and (3) he's absolutely horrible at getting post players the ball. I just don't see us running offensive sets with Kyrie any more than we do with LBJ. If Kyrie will actually run Blatt's offensive sets, I'm all for him initiating the offense. But I haven't seen it. Sadly, the best I've seen the offense run has been when Delly plays PG and actually runs Blatt's offense.

ThirdEyeSharp · Post #13 » by **ThirdEyeSharp** » Tue Jan 19, 2016 5:07 am

You can't seriously prefer LeBron stopping the offense in the post to Kyrie consistently breaking down defenses. That's nonsense. Mozgov and Love are both mediocre in the post and can only abuse the most advantageous matchups. LeBron in the post should be utilized but not as much as it is now. Kyrie is the best ball handler on this team and LeBron needs to be the first Cavalier down the court instead of the guy bringing it up, our offense is starting way too far from the basket with screens being set 4-5 feet beyond the 3 point line.

To each their own, but you're seriously underestimating the effect Kyrie's ball handling can have on our offense's efficiency. Sure he over dribbles sometimes but he does great things for our offense and suggesting that LeBron be the main initiator means you are signing up for a lot of one pass - shot scenarios and ball stopping which has a negative effect on every other player on this team. LeBron would still have a higher usage than Kyrie, he'd score more efficiently and our offense would be better if he took his palm off the ball a little more.

And lol, Delly has been a good player in the pick and roll with Thompson but he's been best as a spot up shooter this season. His assist numbers have steadily declined and when he gets a high screen we know what's happening, that doesn't work on good teams.

We are 28th in pace in the NBA, you are ok with that?