Pennebaker wrote:ccameron wrote:Pennebaker wrote:
Well according to Real GM Wade's Finals PER in 2005-2006 was 30.5. Where did you get 33.8?
One can give LeBron the nod simply because he had less hall-of-fame help. Tyron Lue is not Pat Riley. He didn't have Hall of Fame veterans like a Shaq or a Zo or The Glove to lean on. We don't even have to measure performance.
I got it from here:
http://www.espn.com/nba/playoffs/2011/columns/story?columnist=hollinger_john&page=FinalsPerformances-1
Not disagreeing with your conclusion, but I think if we are talking about who had more help, the Hall of fame players on 2006 were well past their prime, and didn't really show up in the finals. Wade arguably had less help in that series than Lebron. Perfomance wise I can se Lebron getting the nod, but not based on the narrative of having less help.
You forget that Shaquille O'neal was still good enough in 2006 to be All-NBA First Team. He was the only member of the Miami Heat to be on the First Team that year. Wade was All-NBA Second Team.
But LeBron was the only Cavalier on ANY All-NBA team last year... 1st, 2nd or 3rd. Kyrie and Love didn't make the cut.
So I'm confident in disputing your claim about Wade's help. LeBron didn't have All-NBA First Team help. Or 2nd team. Or 3rd team. Period. (this argument also works in favor of LeBron vs Shaq)
And the problem with using a Hollinger article from 2011, of course, is that it isn't calculating LeBron's 2016 performance at all. I don't know if people know this, but each site calculates PER slightly differently. But if RealGM ranks LeBron at 33.4 and Wade at 30.5, then I'd hazard to guess that 2011 Hollinger would've had Wade at 33.8 and LeBron at 36.7, or something like that.
Not sure how PER is calculated by different people. Any way I'm not disagreeing with putting Lebron's finals performance higher. I'm not sure if you watched the 2006 finals, Wade was definitely more of a one man show in that series than Lebron was in 2016. No question. The 2006 finals don't give a good picture of how good Shaq was that year -- although he was definitely past his prime, he was better in the regular season and most of the playoffs. But we're talking about the finals, and in that series Wade definitely had less help.
I would agree with putting Lebron's 2016 finals ahead of Wade's. But regardless of whatever award Shaq won that season, he wasn't the same in the finals. The narrative of who had less help isn't what makes Lebron's performance greater.