At what point is Lue's job in jeopardy?

[bmurph128]

Also, let's talk about the elephant in the room:

LeBron.

Love the guy, gave us a title.

But let's look at the scenarios:

First, this is LeBron "trying", and he's declined and doesn't know how to cope with it. Refuses to just play a damn position - and I don't care which one, PG, SG, PF - so that Crowder can just play SF. Crowder and Smith have been big disappointments, and at this point we can't expect them to turn it around. I'd bench JR and IT and find a real center - even if it's starting Zizic.

PG - LeBron
SG - Korver
SF - Crowder
PF - Love
C - Zizic

This will only marginally improve the defense, but our good offensive rating is a big of a farce. The first team gets killed and can't seem to hit shots consistently. I'd bring in Korver to help with spacing, watch tape of Crowder with Boston and implement some of what they did, and roll with Zizic.

Second unit:

PG - IT
SG - Wade
SF - Shumpert/Smith
PF - Green
C - Thompson

Small unit but will have an immense talent advantage over most second units.



Second, and the more disturbing possibility - LeBron isn't trying, and plans on using an Eastern Conference playoff exit to leave Cleveland. At this point I'm not sure that I care if he leaves. Love what he did for the team, and he will be the greatest Cav of all time - but it seems unlikely that we're going to beat the Warriors, and honestly, I'm sick of watching this crap.

[jbk1234]

Also, let's talk about the elephant in the room:

LeBron.

Love the guy, gave us a title.

But let's look at the scenarios:

First, this is LeBron "trying", and he's declined and doesn't know how to cope with it. Refuses to just play a damn position - and I don't care which one, PG, SG, PF - so that Crowder can just play SF. Crowder and Smith have been big disappointments, and at this point we can't expect them to turn it around. I'd bench JR and IT and find a real center - even if it's starting Zizic.

PG - LeBron
SG - Korver
SF - Crowder
PF - Love
C - Zizic

This will only marginally improve the defense, but our good offensive rating is a big of a farce. The first team gets killed and can't seem to hit shots consistently. I'd bring in Korver to help with spacing, watch tape of Crowder with Boston and implement some of what they did, and roll with Zizic.

Second unit:

PG - IT
SG - Wade
SF - Shumpert/Smith
PF - Green
C - Thompson

Small unit but will have an immense talent advantage over most second units.



Second, and the more disturbing possibility - LeBron isn't trying, and plans on using an Eastern Conference playoff exit to leave Cleveland. At this point I'm not sure that I care if he leaves. Love what he did for the team, and he will be the greatest Cav of all time - but it seems unlikely that we're going to beat the Warriors, and honestly, I'm sick of watching this crap.

It is my hope that he wants IT traded and is going to play this way until it happens. Watch what happens when LBJ plays with Wade. There's a totally different energy level.

But yeah LBJ can't hide defensively this year. He's got to rotate to the rim and he's not. The bigger problem is that Crowder rotating at the rim is worthless. J. Green should probably start for a while.

[bmurph128]

Also, let's talk about the elephant in the room:

LeBron.

Love the guy, gave us a title.

But let's look at the scenarios:

First, this is LeBron "trying", and he's declined and doesn't know how to cope with it. Refuses to just play a damn position - and I don't care which one, PG, SG, PF - so that Crowder can just play SF. Crowder and Smith have been big disappointments, and at this point we can't expect them to turn it around. I'd bench JR and IT and find a real center - even if it's starting Zizic.

PG - LeBron
SG - Korver
SF - Crowder
PF - Love
C - Zizic

This will only marginally improve the defense, but our good offensive rating is a big of a farce. The first team gets killed and can't seem to hit shots consistently. I'd bring in Korver to help with spacing, watch tape of Crowder with Boston and implement some of what they did, and roll with Zizic.

Second unit:

PG - IT
SG - Wade
SF - Shumpert/Smith
PF - Green
C - Thompson

Small unit but will have an immense talent advantage over most second units.



Second, and the more disturbing possibility - LeBron isn't trying, and plans on using an Eastern Conference playoff exit to leave Cleveland. At this point I'm not sure that I care if he leaves. Love what he did for the team, and he will be the greatest Cav of all time - but it seems unlikely that we're going to beat the Warriors, and honestly, I'm sick of watching this crap.

It is my hope that he wants IT traded and is going to play this way until it happens. Watch what happens when LBJ plays with Wade. There's a totally different energy level.

But yeah LBJ can't hide defensively this year. He's got to rotate to the rim and he's not. The bigger problem is that Crowder rotating at the rim is worthless. J. Green should probably start for a while.

Green starting is a good idea.

IT and Love starting together can't happen. Especially when LeBron doesn't play defense either. But I wonder if Lue's logic is that once everyone gets a rhythm, we'll run (most) teams off the court. It seems like Lue's MO since he's been the coach. Defense has never seemed to be a big priority.

[jbk1234]

Finally:

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[afarmenian]

Kevin Love has got to be taken out of the 5 spot Crowder cannot be the starting 4. That was a terrible terrible, really one of the worst coaching decisions I have ever seen in the history of this Cavs era. It was intriguing, Its something I didnt mind them trying but to see teams just eat the Cavs up inside with offensive rebounds and red carpet invitations to the rim. I cannot for the life of me figure out how they thought this could hold up the entire year.

Green cannot start, that means keeping Love at Center and that just cant continue. So put Tristan in as the center. I really dont think much of him but he is all we have. Zizic cant play, sorry there is no way he is making this team better. What little have seen from him is enough for this year. He is totally lost, clumsy and nobody trusts him when he is out there. Rose Wade Korver Crowder/Cedi Green Frye should be the bench rotation.

I would bench JR Smith completely. I mean he is just done as far as i can tell. Its been more than a year and he just doesnt have it. Crowder can go to the 2 or Cedi maybe. I dont know why Shumpert is even getting run. He cant stay healthy, he is erratic on offense and his defense doesnt do enough to overcome that. At least Cedi will play within himself and gives size. Lue wont do it though, he is far too conservative and I am losing faith in someone I thought would give a fresh approach.

Not sure about IT. Push him to the bench but who starts at point? Nobody else moves the needle and you might as well ride it out with him and hope it works out.

[cavs4872]

It should be Crowder going to the bench, but with the all-around stupidity of the Cavs this season, it wouldn't surprise me if it was something else. I kind of had an epiphany in the other thread about this and realized you can appease everyone by running IT-Crowder-James-Love-Thompson.

I feel like Lue was so intent on the small-ball lineup to match up with the Warriors, but they can't even beat bottom-feeders with it. If anything, LeBron would've been better at the 4, or even Green.

The only aspect of the Hill trade that excites me is it potentially moving IT back to a sixth-man; Rose/Calderon would never get burn again (not sure if that's a good or bad thing).

[Stillwater]

Also, let's talk about the elephant in the room:

LeBron.

Love the guy, gave us a title.

But let's look at the scenarios:

First, this is LeBron "trying", and he's declined and doesn't know how to cope with it. Refuses to just play a damn position - and I don't care which one, PG, SG, PF - so that Crowder can just play SF. Crowder and Smith have been big disappointments, and at this point we can't expect them to turn it around. I'd bench JR and IT and find a real center - even if it's starting Zizic.

PG - LeBron
SG - Korver
SF - Crowder
PF - Love
C - Zizic

This will only marginally improve the defense, but our good offensive rating is a big of a farce. The first team gets killed and can't seem to hit shots consistently. I'd bring in Korver to help with spacing, watch tape of Crowder with Boston and implement some of what they did, and roll with Zizic.

Second unit:

PG - IT
SG - Wade
SF - Shumpert/Smith
PF - Green
C - Thompson

Small unit but will have an immense talent advantage over most second units.



Second, and the more disturbing possibility - LeBron isn't trying, and plans on using an Eastern Conference playoff exit to leave Cleveland. At this point I'm not sure that I care if he leaves. Love what he did for the team, and he will be the greatest Cav of all time - but it seems unlikely that we're going to beat the Warriors, and honestly, I'm sick of watching this crap.

It is my hope that he wants IT traded and is going to play this way until it happens. Watch what happens when LBJ plays with Wade. There's a totally different energy level.

But yeah LBJ can't hide defensively this year. He's got to rotate to the rim and he's not. The bigger problem is that Crowder rotating at the rim is worthless. J. Green should probably start for a while.

IT3 alpha attitude without backing it up on the court definitely is impacting Lebron not only because Lebron is deferring as needed to "make" Isaiah prove he deserves to be a member of the sl but also becasue it forces Altman's hand to improve the roster further, and should not surprise anyone. Any good leader like Lebron would do this so that the new player could prove or disprove whatever questions the front office and coaches might have.
It's pretty obvious that the Cav's have a new player who doesn't know how to win unless he's a 1st option scorer with others covering his defensive failures which they refuse to do,because it equates to a losing process against elite teams. This will not do.

[jbk1234]

If Love goes instead of IT, I won't have words. I can not believe how badly they've botched this. You have two reliably good players in LBJ and Love. Everyone else should be on the table including Lue.

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[Stillwater]

If Love goes instead of IT, I won't have words. I can not believe how badly they've botched this. You have two reliably good players in LBJ and Love. Everyone else should be on the table including Lue.

Read on Twitter

Yeah cannot see Love being moved at all unless it fetches 2 lottery picks and they are abandoning the season as a reboot.

[bb22]

I'm not sure whether to laugh at the fact that this lineup change has gotten so much media attention, or at the fact that Lue thinks swapping Crowder and TT will somehow fix the issues.
This is a complete joke. The team needs a whole new game-plan and at least a couple trades to even think about being competitive in the playoffs. I'm hoping that by having TT and JR in the starting lineup, the cavs are actually just trying to increase their trade value before the deadline.

[afarmenian]

I'm not sure whether to laugh at the fact that this lineup change has gotten so much media attention, or at the fact that Lue thinks swapping Crowder and TT will somehow fix the issues.
This is a complete joke. The team needs a whole new game-plan and at least a couple trades to even think about being competitive in the playoffs. I'm hoping that by having TT and JR in the starting lineup, the cavs are actually just trying to increase their trade value before the deadline.

You must not have watched many Cavs games then. None of what you said makes any sense. The only joke is that Lue didnt do it sooner. I mean you dont even need to watch games to know how crazy it is to have a 6-5 guy at PF and a 6-8 guy at Center. So what they should have just let things be until a trade happens? The Cavs are getting killed on the boards. They are a bottom 5 rebounding team after being top 10 for the past few years. So yeah getting some size to the front court is just the first step but absolutely necessary and should immediately improve the defense and rebounding.

[jbk1234]

I'm not sure whether to laugh at the fact that this lineup change has gotten so much media attention, or at the fact that Lue thinks swapping Crowder and TT will somehow fix the issues.
This is a complete joke. The team needs a whole new game-plan and at least a couple trades to even think about being competitive in the playoffs. I'm hoping that by having TT and JR in the starting lineup, the cavs are actually just trying to increase their trade value before the deadline.

There is no increasing TT & JR's trade value. They are who they are and those contracts are what they are.

There is a rebounding synergy starting TT & Love. Having to keep bodies on both of the guys really wears down opposing teams and allows LBJ to go for the long rebounds off of missed three point attempts. Plus Crowder rotating to the rim out of the 4 position is worthless defensively.

Having said all of that, IT has to go. He's just not the right fit here. Tbh - if he's not scoring 30 ppg on 50%+ TS, he's not a net positive starter. In order to do that here, he's got to take the ball out of LBJ & Love's hands. So it's really hard for him to be a net positive starter on the Cavs after you figure that into the equation. The Cavs should've moved him to the bench *until he got his legs back* and left him there. If he asked for a trade, you could've honored the request and gotten good value back for him. Now, the Cavs need to have a fire sale.

[bmurph128]

With TT and Love starting, depth at center will be interesting. Probably play Frye more, but I would like to see Zizic.