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Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton

Moderator: jbk1234

Do you approve or disapprove of the Collin Sexton pick?

Approve
14
61%
Disapprove
5
22%
Undecided
4
17%
 
Total votes: 23

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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#81 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jan 9, 2020 1:09 am

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:sorry but neither of you are seeing what is happening exactly not imo...
Garland is a better "floor seeer" and he puts the ball in places where his bigs can get easy finishes but he is far from the "better passer" at this point just because of that, the key difference to me is Sexton does not deserve the criticism and is definitely has to be being told to score first before looking to pass and in doing so must learn to adapt to defenses better than he is which they believe will come eventually because of his work ethic ...but his teammates don't readily knock down shots when they get the ball on drive and kicks from other guards with Sexton not playing so it stands to good reason he doesn't feel in his 2nd year in the NBA that giving up the rock is the better option most of the time even if he has to try to score over 7'ers and often DOES. The add the org clearly agrees with that notion or they would not being letting Beilein use him in these situations as long as they have been given he rarely gives up the rock on drives. Garland knows he cant score inside yet so he tries to dish it out to contribute in some way besides nothing and his shooting is starting to look really good, I am at least confident he can become the starting pg on thsi roster in a couple years if he gets a lot stronger , but I would rather keep the score first Sexton and bring him off the bench long term and draft an upgrade true PG this summer over bringing Sexton off the bench in favor of DG


We have 9 players who shoot 36% or better on catch and shoot 3's including Sexton himself.

https://stats.nba.com/players/shots-general/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&GeneralRange=Catch%20and%20Shoot&TeamID=1610612739&sort=FG3_PCT&dir=1

nba.com also has stats on 3pters by position:

https://stats.nba.com/players/shooting/?Season=2019-20&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&DistanceRange=By%20Zone&TeamID=1610612739&sort=Right%20Corner%203%20FG%20PCT&dir=1

and if the small sample size on these numbers mean anything, Garland, Cedi, and Larry are best from the right corner; Collin and Kevin are best from the left corner; and Dante is crushing it (so far) from above the break.

What exactly do you expect?

better cutting, better return fire , 3rd pass options creating lanes ,Garland running with Sexton , at least 1 more 50% shooter with noone on them etc.


That'd all be nice, but they can also work with what they've got in the meantime. Get guys the same shot from the same spot and watch the shooting %'s increase.

fwiw, I think Wade and Windler have the potential to add even more shooting and improve cutting/moving.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#82 » by tleikheen » Thu Jan 9, 2020 11:04 pm

Myself I'm kind of tired of watching Garland throw bounce passes off the bigs legs and fans calling that running an offense. He gets himself in trouble in the paint.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#83 » by JonFromVA » Fri Jan 10, 2020 2:57 pm

tleikheen wrote:Myself I'm kind of tired of watching Garland throw bounce passes off the bigs legs and fans calling that running an offense. He gets himself in trouble in the paint.


Yes Darius has a long way to go but its better to see a young PG making some mistakes (and hopefully learning from them) then not trying.

His assists have been up this month (5.4 apg in January so far, 2.2 to). So, he's basically up to what you'd expect from a combo-guard.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#84 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 3:42 pm

tleikheen wrote:Myself I'm kind of tired of watching Garland throw bounce passes off the bigs legs and fans calling that running an offense. He gets himself in trouble in the paint.


Garland clearly has the highest ceiling of any of the guards on the roster. You live with legitimate mistakes if your building through the draft. I like Exum as a potential Sean Livingston type though.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#85 » by Stillwater » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:12 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
tleikheen wrote:Myself I'm kind of tired of watching Garland throw bounce passes off the bigs legs and fans calling that running an offense. He gets himself in trouble in the paint.


Garland clearly has the highest ceiling of any of the guards on the roster. You live with legitimate mistakes if your building through the draft. I like Exum as a potential Sean Livingston type though.

Highest floor sure highest ceiling who knows
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#86 » by jbk1234 » Fri Jan 10, 2020 5:30 pm

Stillwater wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
tleikheen wrote:Myself I'm kind of tired of watching Garland throw bounce passes off the bigs legs and fans calling that running an offense. He gets himself in trouble in the paint.


Garland clearly has the highest ceiling of any of the guards on the roster. You live with legitimate mistakes if your building through the draft. I like Exum as a potential Sean Livingston type though.

Highest floor sure highest ceiling who knows


I think Sexton's floor is the highest but I'm increasingly convinced it's very close to his ceiling and there isn't going to be much improvement going forward. The speed at which he plays is a double-edged sword.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#87 » by Stillwater » Fri Jan 10, 2020 8:55 pm

^Sexton is far away from his ceiling imo and will only get smarter as a player with reps assuming he continues to do so. if not then yeah maybe this is all he is besides getting better at work alone stuff. they are more than happy to develop him though so Id say he will be end of game must for this roster long term
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#88 » by gflem » Fri Jan 10, 2020 10:06 pm

tleikheen wrote:Myself I'm kind of tired of watching Garland throw bounce passes off the bigs legs and fans calling that running an offense. He gets himself in trouble in the paint.

Yeah, there is a ways to go for Garland, but he is a 19 year old rookie. Dont forget that Mark Price had a so-so rookie year, so much so that the team drafted Kevin Johnson in the first round the following year. Fortunately Wayne Embry didnt play favorites with the guy he drafted over the guy Weltman traded for (Price). Not that Johnson wasnt a great player.
The funny thing is that KPJ has the best feel for the game of the three young guards, and at this point is undoubtedly the best passer as well. Maybe its just that he is physically more ready for the NBA than Garland, and of course being taller helps with court vision but his ceiling looks to be a good bit higher than either Garland or Sexton.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#89 » by Revenged25 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 1:52 am

gflem wrote:
tleikheen wrote:Myself I'm kind of tired of watching Garland throw bounce passes off the bigs legs and fans calling that running an offense. He gets himself in trouble in the paint.

Yeah, there is a ways to go for Garland, but he is a 19 year old rookie. Dont forget that Mark Price had a so-so rookie year, so much so that the team drafted Kevin Johnson in the first round the following year. Fortunately Wayne Embry didnt play favorites with the guy he drafted over the guy Weltman traded for (Price). Not that Johnson wasnt a great player.
The funny thing is that KPJ has the best feel for the game of the three young guards, and at this point is undoubtedly the best passer as well. Maybe its just that he is physically more ready for the NBA than Garland, and of course being taller helps with court vision but his ceiling looks to be a good bit higher than either Garland or Sexton.


I absolutely love KPJ and he'll definitely be my next jersey.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#90 » by jbk1234 » Sat Jan 11, 2020 3:50 pm

Stillwater wrote:^Sexton is far away from his ceiling imo and will only get smarter as a player with reps assuming he continues to do so. if not then yeah maybe this is all he is besides getting better at work alone stuff. they are more than happy to develop him though so Id say he will be end of game must for this roster long term


I feel like he's at his worst at the end of games because he's always trying to be the hero. If he gets past that, great. But right now, he would not be the one with the ball in his hands to close out.
It is highly unlikely that the Cavs will agree with your Kevin Love evaluation for the purpose of a trade.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#91 » by JonFromVA » Sat Jan 11, 2020 6:30 pm

We hired Beilein to teach and develop. The least we can do is give them all time. Even unwilling players can change their approach as they mature and start to realize they either need to grow or start checking out Chinese travel brochures.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#92 » by Stillwater » Sat Jan 11, 2020 7:37 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
Stillwater wrote:^Sexton is far away from his ceiling imo and will only get smarter as a player with reps assuming he continues to do so. if not then yeah maybe this is all he is besides getting better at work alone stuff. they are more than happy to develop him though so Id say he will be end of game must for this roster long term


I feel like he's at his worst at the end of games because he's always trying to be the hero. If he gets past that, great. But right now, he would not be the one with the ball in his hands to close out.

Like I said he will be not is
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#93 » by afarmenian » Wed Jan 15, 2020 4:07 am

tleikheen wrote:Myself I'm kind of tired of watching Garland throw bounce passes off the bigs legs and fans calling that running an offense. He gets himself in trouble in the paint.


Lol what? This has to be Colin Sexton right?

Garland is 19 and played like 10 quarters of college ball and gets better every game. He passes the eye test. The offense flows with him. How can anyone not like what he is doing right now?

These coaches have to start changing habits. I am all for patience but when you see the same mistakes over and over and vets having meltdowns because of how tunnel vision Sexton is you can't just keep running the same crap out their. Maybe he would be best off the bench in a Clarkson role like everyone said in the beginning. No huge rush but Its not good basketball with him right now and you wouldn't see elite coaches continue to put up with this crap. Raw talent he does have. I mean he is a blur but they have to harness it the right way.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#94 » by tugs » Wed Jan 15, 2020 7:55 am

Yeah I'm all for Garland as starting PG and shift Exum or Mc to SG. I know it's just labels but Sexton as PG just isn't working. He's not Westbrook
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#95 » by Stillwater » Wed Jan 15, 2020 1:04 pm

afarmenian wrote:
tleikheen wrote:Myself I'm kind of tired of watching Garland throw bounce passes off the bigs legs and fans calling that running an offense. He gets himself in trouble in the paint.


Lol what? This has to be Colin Sexton right?

Garland is 19 and played like 10 quarters of college ball and gets better every game. He passes the eye test. The offense flows with him. How can anyone not like what he is doing right now?

These coaches have to start changing habits. I am all for patience but when you see the same mistakes over and over and vets having meltdowns because of how tunnel vision Sexton is you can't just keep running the same crap out their. Maybe he would be best off the bench in a Clarkson role like everyone said in the beginning. No huge rush but Its not good basketball with him right now and you wouldn't see elite coaches continue to put up with this crap. Raw talent he does have. I mean he is a blur but they have to harness it the right way.

A lot of what your suggesting is warranted because the man is a score first guard not a true pass first one (neither is DG) but it's obvious DG is a capable floor general when they ask him to be in the games since the sluggish play critique.
I'm down with DG more than anyone should have been before recently but you and like most fans are ignoring that this org especially Beilein is anting and telling Sexton to be the score first aggressive player they drafted and so he is doing just that. The team right now would not be getting his individual production from anyone else with the ball in their hands so he gets it
I think he would feast in a 6th man role but we don't have enough good players to justify it.
In case you didn't notice none of these guards are great at playing off ball... None of them
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#96 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jan 15, 2020 8:01 pm

Stillwater wrote:
afarmenian wrote:
tleikheen wrote:Myself I'm kind of tired of watching Garland throw bounce passes off the bigs legs and fans calling that running an offense. He gets himself in trouble in the paint.


Lol what? This has to be Colin Sexton right?

Garland is 19 and played like 10 quarters of college ball and gets better every game. He passes the eye test. The offense flows with him. How can anyone not like what he is doing right now?

These coaches have to start changing habits. I am all for patience but when you see the same mistakes over and over and vets having meltdowns because of how tunnel vision Sexton is you can't just keep running the same crap out their. Maybe he would be best off the bench in a Clarkson role like everyone said in the beginning. No huge rush but Its not good basketball with him right now and you wouldn't see elite coaches continue to put up with this crap. Raw talent he does have. I mean he is a blur but they have to harness it the right way.

A lot of what your suggesting is warranted because the man is a score first guard not a true pass first one (neither is DG) but it's obvious DG is a capable floor general when they ask him to be in the games since the sluggish play critique.
I'm down with DG more than anyone should have been before recently but you and like most fans are ignoring that this org especially Beilein is anting and telling Sexton to be the score first aggressive player they drafted and so he is doing just that. The team right now would not be getting his individual production from anyone else with the ball in their hands so he gets it
I think he would feast in a 6th man role but we don't have enough good players to justify it.
In case you didn't notice none of these guards are great at playing off ball... None of them


Our great off the ball player was supposed to be Windler ... *sigh* ... but Sexton (assuming his 3pter is back) and Garland are both good spot up shooters, they can play off each other and the other players on the floor.

Oh, and you should have been down with Garland before, but you clearly weren't seeing what others of us were even when he was struggling in numerous areas. ;P
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#97 » by Stillwater » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:26 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
afarmenian wrote:
Lol what? This has to be Colin Sexton right?

Garland is 19 and played like 10 quarters of college ball and gets better every game. He passes the eye test. The offense flows with him. How can anyone not like what he is doing right now?

These coaches have to start changing habits. I am all for patience but when you see the same mistakes over and over and vets having meltdowns because of how tunnel vision Sexton is you can't just keep running the same crap out their. Maybe he would be best off the bench in a Clarkson role like everyone said in the beginning. No huge rush but Its not good basketball with him right now and you wouldn't see elite coaches continue to put up with this crap. Raw talent he does have. I mean he is a blur but they have to harness it the right way.

A lot of what your suggesting is warranted because the man is a score first guard not a true pass first one (neither is DG) but it's obvious DG is a capable floor general when they ask him to be in the games since the sluggish play critique.
I'm down with DG more than anyone should have been before recently but you and like most fans are ignoring that this org especially Beilein is anting and telling Sexton to be the score first aggressive player they drafted and so he is doing just that. The team right now would not be getting his individual production from anyone else with the ball in their hands so he gets it
I think he would feast in a 6th man role but we don't have enough good players to justify it.
In case you didn't notice none of these guards are great at playing off ball... None of them


Our great off the ball player was supposed to be Windler ... *sigh* ... but Sexton (assuming his 3pter is back) and Garland are both good spot up shooters, they can play off each other and the other players on the floor.

Oh, and you should have been down with Garland before, but you clearly weren't seeing what others of us were even when he was struggling in numerous areas. ;P

He gave me little reason to until the last 3 games but thats fair I am not one to jump on the bandwagon of an unproven prospect esp one who showed nothing besides a couple nice games against low level competition prior to coming into the league. I for one think it's a fu...ing miracle he didn't bust as a result of that lack of proof, but of late he definitely is showing he can do some things that make me somewhat confident he can at least run an offense even without being strong enough yet and even if defensively he is a turn style or slightly better at best most of his career.
Windler is probably a 3 but yeah his off ball cutting and shooting is high level sh.t
there is no way Sexton should ever play off ball at this point imo, even if that means he has to learn to finish games instead of starting them
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#98 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jan 15, 2020 10:58 pm

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:A lot of what your suggesting is warranted because the man is a score first guard not a true pass first one (neither is DG) but it's obvious DG is a capable floor general when they ask him to be in the games since the sluggish play critique.
I'm down with DG more than anyone should have been before recently but you and like most fans are ignoring that this org especially Beilein is anting and telling Sexton to be the score first aggressive player they drafted and so he is doing just that. The team right now would not be getting his individual production from anyone else with the ball in their hands so he gets it
I think he would feast in a 6th man role but we don't have enough good players to justify it.
In case you didn't notice none of these guards are great at playing off ball... None of them


Our great off the ball player was supposed to be Windler ... *sigh* ... but Sexton (assuming his 3pter is back) and Garland are both good spot up shooters, they can play off each other and the other players on the floor.

Oh, and you should have been down with Garland before, but you clearly weren't seeing what others of us were even when he was struggling in numerous areas. ;P

He gave me little reason to until the last 3 games but thats fair I am not one to jump on the bandwagon of an unproven prospect esp one who showed nothing besides a couple nice games against low level competition prior to coming into the league. I for one think it's a fu...ing miracle he didn't bust as a result of that lack of proof, but of late he definitely is showing he can do some things that make me somewhat confident he can at least run an offense even without being strong enough yet and even if defensively he is a turn style or slightly better at best most of his career.
Windler is probably a 3 but yeah his off ball cutting and shooting is high level sh.t
there is no way Sexton should ever play off ball at this point imo, even if that means he has to learn to finish games instead of starting them


Everyone is unproven until they've shown they can get it done at the NBA level, but if you think this is a bandwagon, well, you're welcome aboard.
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#99 » by Stillwater » Wed Jan 15, 2020 11:47 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Our great off the ball player was supposed to be Windler ... *sigh* ... but Sexton (assuming his 3pter is back) and Garland are both good spot up shooters, they can play off each other and the other players on the floor.

Oh, and you should have been down with Garland before, but you clearly weren't seeing what others of us were even when he was struggling in numerous areas. ;P

He gave me little reason to until the last 3 games but thats fair I am not one to jump on the bandwagon of an unproven prospect esp one who showed nothing besides a couple nice games against low level competition prior to coming into the league. I for one think it's a fu...ing miracle he didn't bust as a result of that lack of proof, but of late he definitely is showing he can do some things that make me somewhat confident he can at least run an offense even without being strong enough yet and even if defensively he is a turn style or slightly better at best most of his career.
Windler is probably a 3 but yeah his off ball cutting and shooting is high level sh.t
there is no way Sexton should ever play off ball at this point imo, even if that means he has to learn to finish games instead of starting them


Everyone is unproven until they've shown they can get it done at the NBA level, but if you think this is a bandwagon, well, you're welcome aboard.

sure everyone is unproven at the pro level,when drafted... but some are far less proven against same level athletes in college esp Garland who never really faced many NBA caliber athletes in the match ups he played before injury/hence the point here.Yeah poor use of wording by me regarding bandwagon. He hasn't shown enough yet to have a wagon to jump on, but I am on station with those waiting for the Garland Buss to arrive even if I walked up the stairs to get there instead of taking the elevator
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Re: Fanbase Rookie Approval Rating: Collin Sexton 

Post#100 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jan 16, 2020 12:57 am

Stillwater wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
Stillwater wrote:He gave me little reason to until the last 3 games but thats fair I am not one to jump on the bandwagon of an unproven prospect esp one who showed nothing besides a couple nice games against low level competition prior to coming into the league. I for one think it's a fu...ing miracle he didn't bust as a result of that lack of proof, but of late he definitely is showing he can do some things that make me somewhat confident he can at least run an offense even without being strong enough yet and even if defensively he is a turn style or slightly better at best most of his career.
Windler is probably a 3 but yeah his off ball cutting and shooting is high level sh.t
there is no way Sexton should ever play off ball at this point imo, even if that means he has to learn to finish games instead of starting them


Everyone is unproven until they've shown they can get it done at the NBA level, but if you think this is a bandwagon, well, you're welcome aboard.

sure everyone is unproven at the pro level,when drafted... but some are far less proven against same level athletes in college esp Garland who never really faced many NBA caliber athletes in the match ups he played before injury/hence the point here.Yeah poor use of wording by me regarding bandwagon. He hasn't shown enough yet to have a wagon to jump on, but I am on station with those waiting for the Garland Buss to arrive even if I walked up the stairs to get there instead of taking the elevator


Yes, all additional evidence about prospects is welcome, but basically it's just additional chances to disappoint (and somehow Cam Reddish still went in the lottery). The one and done rule makes a mess of the NCAA talent pool. Maybe you get to see a few games of pro prospects at the same level going against each other - if you're lucky.

But scouts still have to come to some sort of projection based on raw talent/skills/potential, and if they can't do that without significant college play time - they're going to miss a Kyrie or a LeBron.

The things we were told about Darius have been on display since Summer league, but just pieces and parts of it. That's not something that bothers me, because I'm looking for talent & growth and I've been seeing it.

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