What should Cleveland do with their first round pick?

[toooskies]

True, but I think we have seen what the FO/coaching staff thinks of Windler, plus said SF won't have a track record of being injured for long periods of time in the NBA.

My point is that we have a bunch of wings on the roster that we can play without hitting signing a 10-day guy to play there that will at least be able to fill some minutes. Right now we have one PG and one C on the roster, with Sexton (assuming he re-signs) and LeVert able to do a bad job backing up the 1 and Mobley able to do a mediocre job manning the starting 5 role.

I mean, here's the list of rostered players we can play at the 3: Markkanen, LeVert, Okoro, Osman, Wade, Stevens, Windler. Maybe all those guys are guys you'd like being a backup 3 and not your starter, but it's a long way until you get to replacement level at SF. We can run LeVert, Okoro, Sexton if re-signed, Osman, Windler, and Stevens at the 2 before we dip to where we're playing a guy signed off the street. At PG, we're at Garland and then Sexton if re-signed and Levert, and if we go beyond Garland we're compromising our SG spot where they're demonstrably better. At C, we're at Allen and then Mobley, but Mobley's minutes at C take away from performance at the PF spot where he's demonstrably better.

It'd be great if we could count on being healthy all year, but no one on this team has demonstrated availability as a strong positive attribute.

Kevin Love is a fine center. Evan Mobley is a viable option there next year as well. If you are adding another Center, he should look more like Love than Allen.


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We had no one who could effectively guard Zubac when Allen went down, let alone the better Cs in the league. He just isn't bulky enough. Mobley won't-- and shouldn't-- put on the weight to effectively do that.

Love is not a good center, although he can keep decent positioning.

[Wisedude]

I could live with either Malaki Branham or Jeremy Sochan from Baylor. Okoro does not provide any offense and I would trade him if I got a future 1st round pick. That kid passes up shots and over passes which boggs down the offense because he does not want to be counted on as a scorer. So I would get rid of him.

[jeeph]

I bounce between conventional with need filter: Branham or Agbaj and swinging for the fences with Jokic or KendallBrown type


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Unless we're giving up on 1-2 of Sexton/Okoro/LeVert, drafting a SG to contribute now is a mistake. I'm not saying that can't be the plan-- Sexton could get overpaid by Detroit and there are reasons to cash out of Okoro and/or LeVert if someone will give value-- but if we believe the guys we have are going to contribute for us at SG, there's no minutes for Agbaji or Branham. (We could go back to smaller lineups with Okoro and LeVert playing some SF, but that's probably a mistake.)

There's minutes at backup PG, at backup SF (if the rookie can beat out Osman, which is certainly expected), and possibly C (if we shift Mobley to full-time PF, which isn't a bad idea if Love is going to be difficult to play in the playoffs).

I don’t know that the presence of Sexton, LeVert, or Okoro should impact selections. Best players that fit with Garland and Mobley is my concern. The rest is relative.

When the Warriors drafted Jordan Poole, Klay Thompson was under contract long-term and rehabbing an ACL and DeAngelo Russell was on a long-term contract.

LeVert and Okoro can both play SF. There is some positional flexibility.

The only two types of player I’d avoid are a traditional back to the basket center and an undersized PG.


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Might want to rethink your position...

You said, "Best players that fit with Garland and Mobley is my concern.", then, "The only two types of player I’d avoid are a traditional back to the basket center and an undersized PG.".

Allen, a traditional back to the basket center, and Rubio, an undersized PG, were unquestionably because it wasn't even close, the players that fit best with Garland and Mobley. You have yourself a contradiction there.

People said it was wrong to draft Garland the year after Sexton, or drafting Mobley while having Allen, Lauri, and Love. Drafting a wing because they are a wing and everybody says that what the Cavs need to draft is a wing, is what I want to avoid. Take who you think is the best player. Can always trade good players for value or position at any time.

Traditionalists will tell you that Garland with a another 6'1" guard next to him will be the worst defensive team in the league (wasn't true), and Mobley would work best if he didn't have a paint big clogging things up and he would work best with a stretch big (wasn't true). To me, if we keep and make the pick, unless you think the pick will replace Lauri or Okoro in the starting line-up, you are drafting a bench player. And going by last year at least, we needed bench PG's and bench C's badly, and needed more bench wings absolutely zero.

[JonFromVA]

Unless we're giving up on 1-2 of Sexton/Okoro/LeVert, drafting a SG to contribute now is a mistake. I'm not saying that can't be the plan-- Sexton could get overpaid by Detroit and there are reasons to cash out of Okoro and/or LeVert if someone will give value-- but if we believe the guys we have are going to contribute for us at SG, there's no minutes for Agbaji or Branham. (We could go back to smaller lineups with Okoro and LeVert playing some SF, but that's probably a mistake.)

There's minutes at backup PG, at backup SF (if the rookie can beat out Osman, which is certainly expected), and possibly C (if we shift Mobley to full-time PF, which isn't a bad idea if Love is going to be difficult to play in the playoffs).

I don’t know that the presence of Sexton, LeVert, or Okoro should impact selections. Best players that fit with Garland and Mobley is my concern. The rest is relative.

When the Warriors drafted Jordan Poole, Klay Thompson was under contract long-term and rehabbing an ACL and DeAngelo Russell was on a long-term contract.

LeVert and Okoro can both play SF. There is some positional flexibility.

The only two types of player I’d avoid are a traditional back to the basket center and an undersized PG.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Might want to rethink your position...

You said, "Best players that fit with Garland and Mobley is my concern.", then, "The only two types of player I’d avoid are a traditional back to the basket center and an undersized PG.".

Allen, a traditional back to the basket center, and Rubio, an undersized PG, were unquestionably because it wasn't even close, the players that fit best with Garland and Mobley. You have yourself a contradiction there.

People said it was wrong to draft Garland the year after Sexton, or drafting Mobley while having Allen, Lauri, and Love. Drafting a wing because they are a wing and everybody says that what the Cavs need to draft is a wing, is what I want to avoid. Take who you think is the best player. Can always trade good players for value or position at any time.

Traditionalists will tell you that Garland with a another 6'1" guard next to him will be the worst defensive team in the league (wasn't true), and Mobley would work best if he didn't have a paint big clogging things up and he would work best with a stretch big (wasn't true). To me, if we keep and make the pick, unless you think the pick will replace Lauri or Okoro in the starting line-up, you are drafting a bench player. And going by last year at least, we needed bench PG's and bench C's badly, and needed more bench wings absolutely zero.

Rubio is a bit taller (6'2" bare feet) with a 6'9" wingspan and was always an excellent defender ... it's really the traits that are important not the inches, but fans are just kind of tired of the Cavs being undersized.

The Allen + Mobley pairing was certainly a revelation, but we have Allen and it'd just be insurance to draft someone with a similar profile. And while I personally won't rule out Jarrett (or Evan) developing his jumper further, the paint was very clogged with Allen and Mobley. A side effect of that I believe was making Isaac's slashing ability near useless on offense and it's going to make things very difficult for players lacking elite handles to navigate in a crowd like Garland or Rubio could do.

But what really turns your argument around I think is the point that unless Tim Duncan is on the board - no team drafts for the next season, the draft is all about the future. So, if we need a productive backup, we should be looking at vets. In the draft, we should be looking for a player with upside we simply can't sign or trade for.

Our biggest roster hole at the moment (short of James working his way back) is our lack of a high-level 2-way wing. It's understandable that fans expect to see us try to draft one, but Altman's first responsibility is to make the draft pick count not swing for the fences - so if there's a much better prospect at a non-wing position he's supposed to consider it.

Of course we do have 2 other picks and identifying a backup or a role player with either of those picks would be a big win.

[toooskies]

Unless we're giving up on 1-2 of Sexton/Okoro/LeVert, drafting a SG to contribute now is a mistake. I'm not saying that can't be the plan-- Sexton could get overpaid by Detroit and there are reasons to cash out of Okoro and/or LeVert if someone will give value-- but if we believe the guys we have are going to contribute for us at SG, there's no minutes for Agbaji or Branham. (We could go back to smaller lineups with Okoro and LeVert playing some SF, but that's probably a mistake.)

There's minutes at backup PG, at backup SF (if the rookie can beat out Osman, which is certainly expected), and possibly C (if we shift Mobley to full-time PF, which isn't a bad idea if Love is going to be difficult to play in the playoffs).

I don’t know that the presence of Sexton, LeVert, or Okoro should impact selections. Best players that fit with Garland and Mobley is my concern. The rest is relative.

When the Warriors drafted Jordan Poole, Klay Thompson was under contract long-term and rehabbing an ACL and DeAngelo Russell was on a long-term contract.

LeVert and Okoro can both play SF. There is some positional flexibility.

The only two types of player I’d avoid are a traditional back to the basket center and an undersized PG.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Might want to rethink your position...

You said, "Best players that fit with Garland and Mobley is my concern.", then, "The only two types of player I’d avoid are a traditional back to the basket center and an undersized PG.".

Allen, a traditional back to the basket center, and Rubio, an undersized PG, were unquestionably because it wasn't even close, the players that fit best with Garland and Mobley. You have yourself a contradiction there.

People said it was wrong to draft Garland the year after Sexton, or drafting Mobley while having Allen, Lauri, and Love. Drafting a wing because they are a wing and everybody says that what the Cavs need to draft is a wing, is what I want to avoid. Take who you think is the best player. Can always trade good players for value or position at any time.

Traditionalists will tell you that Garland with a another 6'1" guard next to him will be the worst defensive team in the league (wasn't true), and Mobley would work best if he didn't have a paint big clogging things up and he would work best with a stretch big (wasn't true). To me, if we keep and make the pick, unless you think the pick will replace Lauri or Okoro in the starting line-up, you are drafting a bench player. And going by last year at least, we needed bench PG's and bench C's badly, and needed more bench wings absolutely zero.

I agree, the easiest way to improve next year via roster changes is to upgrade our depth at PG and C. If we choose a better depth PG than Kevin Pangos/Rajon Rondo and a better backup C than Ed Davis/Moses Brown, we could add 3-5 wins. Adding a wing to play bench minutes is realistically not going to move the needle this year-- unless gifted on-court development time moves the needle the wrong way.

There are options of drafting "wings" who could help us with ballhandling (i.e. Dyson Daniels or Jalen Williams) or could play bigger (i.e. Tari Eason or EJ Liddell), but ultimately we don't need a bench-quality SF. We have six guys we could play there already who are rotation-quality guys in the regular season (Markkanen/Osman/Okoro/LeVert/Wade/Stevens). A drafted SG might end up 4th on the depth chart behind Sexton, LeVert, and Okoro. We absolutely need PG depth and C depth, though, particularly if we want Garland to get some off-ball time or simply rest, or if Mobley doesn't bulk up enough to be respectable against starting Cs.

[jeeph]

I don’t know that the presence of Sexton, LeVert, or Okoro should impact selections. Best players that fit with Garland and Mobley is my concern. The rest is relative.

When the Warriors drafted Jordan Poole, Klay Thompson was under contract long-term and rehabbing an ACL and DeAngelo Russell was on a long-term contract.

LeVert and Okoro can both play SF. There is some positional flexibility.

The only two types of player I’d avoid are a traditional back to the basket center and an undersized PG.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Might want to rethink your position...

You said, "Best players that fit with Garland and Mobley is my concern.", then, "The only two types of player I’d avoid are a traditional back to the basket center and an undersized PG.".

Allen, a traditional back to the basket center, and Rubio, an undersized PG, were unquestionably because it wasn't even close, the players that fit best with Garland and Mobley. You have yourself a contradiction there.

People said it was wrong to draft Garland the year after Sexton, or drafting Mobley while having Allen, Lauri, and Love. Drafting a wing because they are a wing and everybody says that what the Cavs need to draft is a wing, is what I want to avoid. Take who you think is the best player. Can always trade good players for value or position at any time.

Traditionalists will tell you that Garland with a another 6'1" guard next to him will be the worst defensive team in the league (wasn't true), and Mobley would work best if he didn't have a paint big clogging things up and he would work best with a stretch big (wasn't true). To me, if we keep and make the pick, unless you think the pick will replace Lauri or Okoro in the starting line-up, you are drafting a bench player. And going by last year at least, we needed bench PG's and bench C's badly, and needed more bench wings absolutely zero.

Rubio is a bit taller (6'2" bare feet) with a 6'9" wingspan and was always an excellent defender ... it's really the traits that are important not the inches, but fans are just kind of tired of the Cavs being undersized.

The Allen + Mobley pairing was certainly a revelation, but we have Allen and it'd just be insurance to draft someone with a similar profile. And while I personally won't rule out Jarrett (or Evan) developing his jumper further, the paint was very clogged with Allen and Mobley. A side effect of that I believe was making Isaac's slashing ability near useless on offense and it's going to make things very difficult for players lacking elite handles to navigate in a crowd like Garland or Rubio could do.

But what really turns your argument around I think is the point that unless Tim Duncan is on the board - no team drafts for the next season, the draft is all about the future. So, if we need a productive backup, we should be looking at vets. In the draft, we should be looking for a player with upside we simply can't sign or trade for.

Our biggest roster hole at the moment (short of James working his way back) is our lack of a high-level 2-way wing. It's understandable that fans expect to see us try to draft one, but Altman's first responsibility is to make the draft pick count not swing for the fences - so if there's a much better prospect at a non-wing position he's supposed to consider it.

Of course we do have 2 other picks and identifying a backup or a role player with either of those picks would be a big win.

There is 48 center minutes. Allen is good for 30ish. When Allen is sitting or hurt and the other team had a true 5 out there, we fell apart. Our team is reliant on having not a shot blocker necessarily because Mobley is that, but an anchor. A true 5. We can get a vet for a series of one year patches for sure. But in no way are we set there unless you think Allen or Mobley will never get hurt and a good back up 5 would get minutes without any injury. I think I'd consider your 3rd string Center insurance, not your 2nd, the 2nd stringer plays every game.

Correct. No team drafts for next season. I wasn't trying to say that and that was missing the point. We are set with Garland, Mobley, and Allen as starters. Leaving Okoro and Lauri as the only guys that at replacement level at the moment. When looking at the draft board, do you see the guys that are going to be available as likely to be better than Okoro or Lauri at their positions? How do they rank as rookies as compared to Okoro and Lauri as rookies coming out?

I don't pretend to be an expert scout so I can't say there are those guys at any position but it seems to me that center Williams is a pretty safe bet as a NBA ready type, and might help us have the best defense in the league, so I wouldn't rule it out. I'd say he has a better chance of helping our defense as the #2 Center like that than say, 6'5" Johnny Davis would change our offenses fortunes as SG #3. But then again maybe not. Just saying don't rule PG's or C's because of the NBA trend of desiring wings like they are the precious, one more wing to rule them all. The Cavs can keep on zagging. They don't have to automatically do what everybody else is doing just because they had a good season. I could understand if the Cavs had a bad season then people saying they should try and do what everybody else is doing. But they just had a good season by doing things differently, and people's #1 desire in their hearts is to be normal for some reason? Not, this is the best player, or the team is missing this capability which is hurting this, but instead the reasoning is it is a WING! I don't get it.

Yes, we could use a 2 way wing. So could every team. But we could also use a back up 5, and more dribble driving, and passing, and 3 point shooting, and..... Wing is just one possibility. So to put it simpler, the questions are; the floor needed for this draft pick to achieve to be how useful for the positional team need, and the ceiling of the player vs the bust factor. To be a starter they would have to be better than what Okoro or Lauri will be in 4 years. I don't see safe wings that will be available that have a higher ceiling than what we have. Some of the boom/bust guys do but that's another question.

Where is your risk factor for this team? Shoot for the moon because it's the last time you're in the lotto, or you better hit on the pick and get a helping role player because you aren't going to be getting safe role player picks with late firsts? Myself, I'm thinking the chances on drafting a super star at #14 is pretty low, this team is close, means we should look for a bit on the safer side of the metric for my liking.

[JonFromVA]

Might want to rethink your position...

You said, "Best players that fit with Garland and Mobley is my concern.", then, "The only two types of player I’d avoid are a traditional back to the basket center and an undersized PG.".

Allen, a traditional back to the basket center, and Rubio, an undersized PG, were unquestionably because it wasn't even close, the players that fit best with Garland and Mobley. You have yourself a contradiction there.

People said it was wrong to draft Garland the year after Sexton, or drafting Mobley while having Allen, Lauri, and Love. Drafting a wing because they are a wing and everybody says that what the Cavs need to draft is a wing, is what I want to avoid. Take who you think is the best player. Can always trade good players for value or position at any time.

Traditionalists will tell you that Garland with a another 6'1" guard next to him will be the worst defensive team in the league (wasn't true), and Mobley would work best if he didn't have a paint big clogging things up and he would work best with a stretch big (wasn't true). To me, if we keep and make the pick, unless you think the pick will replace Lauri or Okoro in the starting line-up, you are drafting a bench player. And going by last year at least, we needed bench PG's and bench C's badly, and needed more bench wings absolutely zero.

Rubio is a bit taller (6'2" bare feet) with a 6'9" wingspan and was always an excellent defender ... it's really the traits that are important not the inches, but fans are just kind of tired of the Cavs being undersized.

The Allen + Mobley pairing was certainly a revelation, but we have Allen and it'd just be insurance to draft someone with a similar profile. And while I personally won't rule out Jarrett (or Evan) developing his jumper further, the paint was very clogged with Allen and Mobley. A side effect of that I believe was making Isaac's slashing ability near useless on offense and it's going to make things very difficult for players lacking elite handles to navigate in a crowd like Garland or Rubio could do.

But what really turns your argument around I think is the point that unless Tim Duncan is on the board - no team drafts for the next season, the draft is all about the future. So, if we need a productive backup, we should be looking at vets. In the draft, we should be looking for a player with upside we simply can't sign or trade for.

Our biggest roster hole at the moment (short of James working his way back) is our lack of a high-level 2-way wing. It's understandable that fans expect to see us try to draft one, but Altman's first responsibility is to make the draft pick count not swing for the fences - so if there's a much better prospect at a non-wing position he's supposed to consider it.

Of course we do have 2 other picks and identifying a backup or a role player with either of those picks would be a big win.

There is 48 center minutes. Allen is good for 30ish. When Allen is sitting or hurt and the other team had a true 5 out there, we fell apart. Our team is reliant on having not a shot blocker necessarily because Mobley is that, but an anchor. A true 5. We can get a vet for a series of one year patches for sure. But in no way are we set there unless you think Allen or Mobley will never get hurt and a good back up 5 would get minutes without any injury. I think I'd consider your 3rd string Center insurance, not your 2nd, the 2nd stringer plays every game.

Correct. No team drafts for next season. I wasn't trying to say that and that was missing the point. We are set with Garland, Mobley, and Allen as starters. Leaving Okoro and Lauri as the only guys that at replacement level at the moment. When looking at the draft board, do you see the guys that are going to be available as likely to be better than Okoro or Lauri at their positions? How do they rank as rookies as compared to Okoro and Lauri as rookies coming out?

I don't pretend to be an expert scout so I can't say there are those guys at any position but it seems to me that center Williams is a pretty safe bet as a NBA ready type, and might help us have the best defense in the league, so I wouldn't rule it out. I'd say he has a better chance of helping our defense as the #2 Center like that than say, 6'5" Johnny Davis would change our offenses fortunes as SG #3. But then again maybe not. Just saying don't rule PG's or C's because of the NBA trend of desiring wings like they are the precious, one more wing to rule them all. The Cavs can keep on zagging. They don't have to automatically do what everybody else is doing just because they had a good season. I could understand if the Cavs had a bad season then people saying they should try and do what everybody else is doing. But they just had a good season by doing things differently, and people's #1 desire in their hearts is to be normal for some reason? Not, this is the best player, or the team is missing this capability which is hurting this, but instead the reasoning is it is a WING! I don't get it.

Yes, we could use a 2 way wing. So could every team. But we could also use a back up 5, and more dribble driving, and passing, and 3 point shooting, and..... Wing is just one possibility. So to put it simpler, the questions are; the floor needed for this draft pick to achieve to be how useful for the positional team need, and the ceiling of the player vs the bust factor. To be a starter they would have to be better than what Okoro or Lauri will be in 4 years. I don't see safe wings that will be available that have a higher ceiling than what we have. Some of the boom/bust guys do but that's another question.

Where is your risk factor for this team? Shoot for the moon because it's the last time you're in the lotto, or you better hit on the pick and get a helping role player because you aren't going to be getting safe role player picks with late firsts? Myself, I'm thinking the chances on drafting a super star at #14 is pretty low, this team is close, means we should look for a bit on the safer side of the metric for my liking.

I don't think the Cavs need to do anything out of the ordinary with the pick ... just pick the best fit within the tier. If that's a C because Charlotte is playing games with their 2 picks, so be it ... take a C.

But I do expect Evan to be playing more and more C and Lauri more PF over the seasons to come.

[baldur]

seeing they select dieng, agbaji or brown.

[toooskies]

Rubio is a bit taller (6'2" bare feet) with a 6'9" wingspan and was always an excellent defender ... it's really the traits that are important not the inches, but fans are just kind of tired of the Cavs being undersized.

The Allen + Mobley pairing was certainly a revelation, but we have Allen and it'd just be insurance to draft someone with a similar profile. And while I personally won't rule out Jarrett (or Evan) developing his jumper further, the paint was very clogged with Allen and Mobley. A side effect of that I believe was making Isaac's slashing ability near useless on offense and it's going to make things very difficult for players lacking elite handles to navigate in a crowd like Garland or Rubio could do.

But what really turns your argument around I think is the point that unless Tim Duncan is on the board - no team drafts for the next season, the draft is all about the future. So, if we need a productive backup, we should be looking at vets. In the draft, we should be looking for a player with upside we simply can't sign or trade for.

Our biggest roster hole at the moment (short of James working his way back) is our lack of a high-level 2-way wing. It's understandable that fans expect to see us try to draft one, but Altman's first responsibility is to make the draft pick count not swing for the fences - so if there's a much better prospect at a non-wing position he's supposed to consider it.

Of course we do have 2 other picks and identifying a backup or a role player with either of those picks would be a big win.

There is 48 center minutes. Allen is good for 30ish. When Allen is sitting or hurt and the other team had a true 5 out there, we fell apart. Our team is reliant on having not a shot blocker necessarily because Mobley is that, but an anchor. A true 5. We can get a vet for a series of one year patches for sure. But in no way are we set there unless you think Allen or Mobley will never get hurt and a good back up 5 would get minutes without any injury. I think I'd consider your 3rd string Center insurance, not your 2nd, the 2nd stringer plays every game.

Correct. No team drafts for next season. I wasn't trying to say that and that was missing the point. We are set with Garland, Mobley, and Allen as starters. Leaving Okoro and Lauri as the only guys that at replacement level at the moment. When looking at the draft board, do you see the guys that are going to be available as likely to be better than Okoro or Lauri at their positions? How do they rank as rookies as compared to Okoro and Lauri as rookies coming out?

I don't pretend to be an expert scout so I can't say there are those guys at any position but it seems to me that center Williams is a pretty safe bet as a NBA ready type, and might help us have the best defense in the league, so I wouldn't rule it out. I'd say he has a better chance of helping our defense as the #2 Center like that than say, 6'5" Johnny Davis would change our offenses fortunes as SG #3. But then again maybe not. Just saying don't rule PG's or C's because of the NBA trend of desiring wings like they are the precious, one more wing to rule them all. The Cavs can keep on zagging. They don't have to automatically do what everybody else is doing just because they had a good season. I could understand if the Cavs had a bad season then people saying they should try and do what everybody else is doing. But they just had a good season by doing things differently, and people's #1 desire in their hearts is to be normal for some reason? Not, this is the best player, or the team is missing this capability which is hurting this, but instead the reasoning is it is a WING! I don't get it.

Yes, we could use a 2 way wing. So could every team. But we could also use a back up 5, and more dribble driving, and passing, and 3 point shooting, and..... Wing is just one possibility. So to put it simpler, the questions are; the floor needed for this draft pick to achieve to be how useful for the positional team need, and the ceiling of the player vs the bust factor. To be a starter they would have to be better than what Okoro or Lauri will be in 4 years. I don't see safe wings that will be available that have a higher ceiling than what we have. Some of the boom/bust guys do but that's another question.

Where is your risk factor for this team? Shoot for the moon because it's the last time you're in the lotto, or you better hit on the pick and get a helping role player because you aren't going to be getting safe role player picks with late firsts? Myself, I'm thinking the chances on drafting a super star at #14 is pretty low, this team is close, means we should look for a bit on the safer side of the metric for my liking.

I don't think the Cavs need to do anything out of the ordinary with the pick ... just pick the best fit within the tier. If that's a C because Charlotte is playing games with their 2 picks, so be it ... take a C.

But I do expect Evan to be playing more and more C and Lauri more PF over the seasons to come.

Evan can't play more C unless Allen plays less C.

[jbk1234]

There is 48 center minutes. Allen is good for 30ish. When Allen is sitting or hurt and the other team had a true 5 out there, we fell apart. Our team is reliant on having not a shot blocker necessarily because Mobley is that, but an anchor. A true 5. We can get a vet for a series of one year patches for sure. But in no way are we set there unless you think Allen or Mobley will never get hurt and a good back up 5 would get minutes without any injury. I think I'd consider your 3rd string Center insurance, not your 2nd, the 2nd stringer plays every game.

Correct. No team drafts for next season. I wasn't trying to say that and that was missing the point. We are set with Garland, Mobley, and Allen as starters. Leaving Okoro and Lauri as the only guys that at replacement level at the moment. When looking at the draft board, do you see the guys that are going to be available as likely to be better than Okoro or Lauri at their positions? How do they rank as rookies as compared to Okoro and Lauri as rookies coming out?

I don't pretend to be an expert scout so I can't say there are those guys at any position but it seems to me that center Williams is a pretty safe bet as a NBA ready type, and might help us have the best defense in the league, so I wouldn't rule it out. I'd say he has a better chance of helping our defense as the #2 Center like that than say, 6'5" Johnny Davis would change our offenses fortunes as SG #3. But then again maybe not. Just saying don't rule PG's or C's because of the NBA trend of desiring wings like they are the precious, one more wing to rule them all. The Cavs can keep on zagging. They don't have to automatically do what everybody else is doing just because they had a good season. I could understand if the Cavs had a bad season then people saying they should try and do what everybody else is doing. But they just had a good season by doing things differently, and people's #1 desire in their hearts is to be normal for some reason? Not, this is the best player, or the team is missing this capability which is hurting this, but instead the reasoning is it is a WING! I don't get it.

Yes, we could use a 2 way wing. So could every team. But we could also use a back up 5, and more dribble driving, and passing, and 3 point shooting, and..... Wing is just one possibility. So to put it simpler, the questions are; the floor needed for this draft pick to achieve to be how useful for the positional team need, and the ceiling of the player vs the bust factor. To be a starter they would have to be better than what Okoro or Lauri will be in 4 years. I don't see safe wings that will be available that have a higher ceiling than what we have. Some of the boom/bust guys do but that's another question.

Where is your risk factor for this team? Shoot for the moon because it's the last time you're in the lotto, or you better hit on the pick and get a helping role player because you aren't going to be getting safe role player picks with late firsts? Myself, I'm thinking the chances on drafting a super star at #14 is pretty low, this team is close, means we should look for a bit on the safer side of the metric for my liking.

I don't think the Cavs need to do anything out of the ordinary with the pick ... just pick the best fit within the tier. If that's a C because Charlotte is playing games with their 2 picks, so be it ... take a C.

But I do expect Evan to be playing more and more C and Lauri more PF over the seasons to come.

Evan can't play more C unless Allen plays less C.

I mean Mobley could play center whenever Allen sits, but Mobley is pretty far away from anything other than small ball center in spot minutes. There's a reason the Cavs had Lauri on Drummond in that play in. I think there's a good chance that Mobley spends more time defending the 3 than the 5 throughout his career.

In any event, I'd be reluctant to draft a center as they almost always take at least two seasons before they're ready to play solid minutes in the NBA, usually it's closer to 4, and then you have to pay them. Doncic's class was supposed to be the best big man class in a generation. Ayton, Bagley, JJ, WCJ, and Bamba were all top 7 picks. Look at their development curves. That's what you can expect. It's more likely to be Moses Brown production than anything else.

Obviously, if someone too good to pass up falls to 14, you recalculate, but if it's close, draft a wing. Backup center and PG should be filled by vets who can help the Cavs this season.

[toooskies]

I don't think the Cavs need to do anything out of the ordinary with the pick ... just pick the best fit within the tier. If that's a C because Charlotte is playing games with their 2 picks, so be it ... take a C.

But I do expect Evan to be playing more and more C and Lauri more PF over the seasons to come.

Evan can't play more C unless Allen plays less C.

I mean Mobley could play center whenever Allen sits, but Mobley is pretty far away from anything other than small ball center in spot minutes. There's a reason the Cavs had Lauri on Drummond in that play in. I think there's a good chance that Mobley spends more time defending the 3 than the 5 throughout his career.

In any event, I'd be reluctant to draft a center as they almost always take at least two seasons before they're ready to play solid minutes in the NBA, usually it's closer to 4, and then you have to pay them. Doncic's class was supposed to be the best big man class in a generation. Ayton, Bagley, JJ, WCJ, and Bamba were all top 7 picks. Look at their development curves. That's what you can expect. It's more likely to be Moses Brown production than anything else.

Obviously, if someone too good to pass up falls to 14, you recalculate, but if it's close, draft a wing. Backup center and PG should be filled by vets who can help the Cavs this season.

I meant more that any implication of Evan playing more C is that he already played all the backup minutes at the position. The only way for him to play more at the C is if Allen is hurt or traded. It's possible that that becomes a necessity to improve the offense, but let's not go there again right now.

Outside of a few notable exceptions, most wings aren't making a positive contribution in their first two years either, especially at #14. Guys like Moody and Bouknight didn't even see the court last year.

That said, I heard that Williams and Duren wouldn't be coming in for workouts/interviews with the Cavs because there's no path to starting. So we should assume there's no way we consider them.

[jbk1234]

Evan can't play more C unless Allen plays less C.

I mean Mobley could play center whenever Allen sits, but Mobley is pretty far away from anything other than small ball center in spot minutes. There's a reason the Cavs had Lauri on Drummond in that play in. I think there's a good chance that Mobley spends more time defending the 3 than the 5 throughout his career.

In any event, I'd be reluctant to draft a center as they almost always take at least two seasons before they're ready to play solid minutes in the NBA, usually it's closer to 4, and then you have to pay them. Doncic's class was supposed to be the best big man class in a generation. Ayton, Bagley, JJ, WCJ, and Bamba were all top 7 picks. Look at their development curves. That's what you can expect. It's more likely to be Moses Brown production than anything else.

Obviously, if someone too good to pass up falls to 14, you recalculate, but if it's close, draft a wing. Backup center and PG should be filled by vets who can help the Cavs this season.

I meant more that any implication of Evan playing more C is that he already played all the backup minutes at the position. The only way for him to play more at the C is if Allen is hurt or traded. It's possible that that becomes a necessity to improve the offense, but let's not go there again right now.

Outside of a few notable exceptions, most wings aren't making a positive contribution in their first two years either, especially at #14. Guys like Moody and Bouknight didn't even see the court last year.

That said, I heard that Williams and Duren wouldn't be coming in for workouts/interviews with the Cavs because there's no path to starting. So we should assume there's no way we consider them.

I just think that if whoever we draft isn't going to be able to provide solid minutes this season, better for that player to be a wing. Our backup center, and especially our backup PG, need to be able to answer the call now. We can get by with LeVert and Okoro. We should not find ourselves in a position where we're relying on Ed Davis/Rajon Rondo types in those other roles.

[Mind_Odyssey]

I’m slightly confused by fans who are trying to “win now at all costs.”

….what’s the rush? Develop your core and establish a culture. The huge dopamine rush Lebron gave teams gave this fanbase a false idea of how to build a winner.

[toooskies]

I’m slightly confused by fans who are trying to “win now at all costs.”

….what’s the rush? Develop your core and establish a culture. The huge dopamine rush Lebron gave teams gave this fanbase a false idea of how to build a winner.

We are on a pretend-GM message board where doing nothing means having nothing to discuss.

But I also tend to favor being aggressive when contending windows both take a half decade to build organically but also frequently close quickly for unpredictable reasons.

[JonFromVA]

I’m slightly confused by fans who are trying to “win now at all costs.”

….what’s the rush? Develop your core and establish a culture. The huge dopamine rush Lebron gave teams gave this fanbase a false idea of how to build a winner.

What's the implication to the current discussion?

You're not suggesting we shouldn't add a competent backup C and PG are you?

It's perfectly normal for most teams not to start the #14 pick in the draft.

And it's not just big men who can take 4+ years to get their act together.

So in my opinion, while snagging a rook who's able to contribute right away would be a big positive because you've quickly dispelled a lot of the risk and we do need guys who can contribute, I do believe the Cavs timeline is such that this is not a necessity.

If the Cavs apply risk management in any sort of a formal sense, this would even express itself in how they grade the picks. A prospect with an All-Star ceiling is obviously very desirable, but if you only put that at 10% chance the guy with a 90% chance of being a rotational player is probably your pick.

IMO, all options should be open to Koby and gang.

[gflem]

I’m slightly confused by fans who are trying to “win now at all costs.”

….what’s the rush? Develop your core and establish a culture. The huge dopamine rush Lebron gave teams gave this fanbase a false idea of how to build a winner.

I don't think there's a rush so much as we want the team to take the next step forward and actually play in a playoff series or two. Not getting a decent back up at PG and C means we will likely either run Garland into the ground and in case of injury to Allen force Mobley to play more minutes at C than he probably should at this point in his career or both. I don't see where the Lebron years come into play here, in fact being that people are talking about getting solid back ups at other positions may actually mean the opposite of what you suggest.

[Mind_Odyssey]

I’m slightly confused by fans who are trying to “win now at all costs.”

….what’s the rush? Develop your core and establish a culture. The huge dopamine rush Lebron gave teams gave this fanbase a false idea of how to build a winner.

What's the implication to the current discussion?

You're not suggesting we shouldn't add a competent backup C and PG are you?

It's perfectly normal for most teams not to start the #14 pick in the draft.

And it's not just big men who can take 4+ years to get their act together.

So in my opinion, while snagging a rook who's able to contribute right away would be a big positive because you've quickly dispelled a lot of the risk and we do need guys who can contribute, I do believe the Cavs timeline is such that this is not a necessity.

If the Cavs apply risk management in any sort of a formal sense, this would even express itself in how they grade the picks. A prospect with an All-Star ceiling is obviously very desirable, but if you only put that at 10% chance the guy with a 90% chance of being a rotational player is probably your pick.

IMO, all options should be open to Koby and gang.

I’m suggesting draft BPA. Bad teams in every sport draft for need over talent.

A backup center isn’t going to help us win a championship one day.

[JonFromVA]

I’m slightly confused by fans who are trying to “win now at all costs.”

….what’s the rush? Develop your core and establish a culture. The huge dopamine rush Lebron gave teams gave this fanbase a false idea of how to build a winner.

What's the implication to the current discussion?

You're not suggesting we shouldn't add a competent backup C and PG are you?

It's perfectly normal for most teams not to start the #14 pick in the draft.

And it's not just big men who can take 4+ years to get their act together.

So in my opinion, while snagging a rook who's able to contribute right away would be a big positive because you've quickly dispelled a lot of the risk and we do need guys who can contribute, I do believe the Cavs timeline is such that this is not a necessity.

If the Cavs apply risk management in any sort of a formal sense, this would even express itself in how they grade the picks. A prospect with an All-Star ceiling is obviously very desirable, but if you only put that at 10% chance the guy with a 90% chance of being a rotational player is probably your pick.

IMO, all options should be open to Koby and gang.

I’m suggesting draft BPA. Bad teams in every sport draft for need over talent.

A backup center isn’t going to help us win a championship one day.

What-if a center is the BPA?

It sounds like you might prefer the highest upside wing, who may or may not be the BPA.

Something else the Cavs will face is no player at #14 is going to check all the boxes, they will be lacking things that caused 13 other teams to pass on him. Assuming we can pick two traits a player is strong-in, I wonder what you'd all choose.

In past drafts, the Cavs have focused on hard-workers with high-character and connections to the Team USA program. If they continue that approach that may already limit who they can take at 14, but they will likely have to sacrifice something(s) we'd all like to see in this prospect whether that's shooting, play-making, individual defense, team defenses, blocks/steals, ball-handling, court vision, decision making, length, strength, etc.