Trade Ideas (Part III)

[jbk1234]

:o

JR Smith is 34yo and played 22 games last season and clearly doesnt want to be in Cleveland anymore. If you guys think you are getting a pick or one of our young guys you are mistaken. Likely he will be part of a bigger deal which has us taking back extra salary to help the Cavs get out of the tax.

You guys probably arent going to like any trades you guys make this season. Bottom line is no NBA owner wants to waste millions of dollars going deep into the tax for a team that was 27th last season. My bet is they were betting on getting Zion to make up for the revenue they would be losing in tax but that didnt happen and falling out of the top 3 has forced them to make some difficult decisions.

dont know really how much trading for Smith and waiving him only costing Miami his partial (grandfathered pre cba change) really helps Miami this year but if by sending out jj who has a po is 2020 they get him off the books going into next summer and im also not sure how likely Miami ever was to keep the guaranteed deal of the 13th pick anyway...but i still think the crabbe and 27/31 for smith is most probable because that deal alone puts the Nets in 2 max teratory .
also think okc #21 is in play as well.

I’d agree that Miami might may not have the most to gain from JR contract, especially compared to other teams. Shams mentioned this scenario in an article yesterday so I was just piggybacking off of it.

Miami could position themselves for a 2020 Free Agency by making this a bigger deal than JR for (insert individual player here). If they took on JR AND, say, Tristan, they could clear a max slot next year.

I know this FA class is the one to be in. But if Kawhi, KD, Kyrie, etc. take short term deals, the Heat could be a major player next summer. I have nothing suggest those guys are going to take short deals, just playing out a scenario that I’m sure front offices are thinking about.

It depends on whether a team like the Jazz has already agreed to eat Dragon's contract for free.

[jbk1234]

Don't know who this guy is but it sounds pretty real. If the Heat are willing to use No. 13 to dump cap, it's no wonder the Hawks revisited their position about eating salary for picks. The market is tight.

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[Stillwater]

^ Yeah straight up Smith for JJ and the #13 would be more than worth it given JJ has a PO in 2020 and could very well want out to jump onto a contender. But even if he took the $ in 2020 if there is a high upside option on the board at 13 the Cavs like it's well worth it, maybe JJ can even help some of this roster play better defense.

[jbk1234]

Looks like the Cavs already passed on Love for cap space offers...
https://hoopshype.com/2019/06/05/portland-trail-blazers-kevin-love-trade-rumors-cleveland-cavaliers/

[Revenged25]

https://hoopshype.com/2019/03/13/cleveland-cavaliers-collin-sexton-kevin-love-scouting-report-analysis-injury-update/?utm_source=smg&utm_medium=wasabi&utm_content=recirc-manual-related

Just another article to go with the above one to show why the Cavs wouldn't/shouldn't trade Love.

[Richfield]

Don't know who this guy is but it sounds pretty real. If the Heat are willing to use No. 13 to dump cap, it's no wonder the Hawks revisited their position about eating salary for picks. The market is tight.

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Thanks for sharing that. Even for a Cavs fan that sounds like a lot for Heat to give up given that JJ' has desired on court value too. I have to assume we'd send the Heat #26 or future second round considerations back in the package? Seems like Cavs could get something of value for JJ afterwards/later to make up for losing the 26 or whatever.

[jbk1234]

Don't know who this guy is but it sounds pretty real. If the Heat are willing to use No. 13 to dump cap, it's no wonder the Hawks revisited their position about eating salary for picks. The market is tight.

Read on Twitter

Thanks for sharing that. Even for a Cavs fan that sounds like a lot for Heat to give up given that JJ' has desired on court value too. I have to assume we'd send the Heat #26 or future second round considerations back in the package? Seems like Cavs could get something of value for JJ afterwards/later to make up for losing the 26 or whatever.

Sound like Butler wants to sign there but the Sixers won't agree to a S&T. I'm happy to take the assets the Sixers are turning down. No 13 is high enough to justify re-entering the repeater tax IMO.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[dean456]

:o

JR Smith is 34yo and played 22 games last season and clearly doesnt want to be in Cleveland anymore. If you guys think you are getting a pick or one of our young guys you are mistaken. Likely he will be part of a bigger deal which has us taking back extra salary to help the Cavs get out of the tax.

You guys probably arent going to like any trades you guys make this season. Bottom line is no NBA owner wants to waste millions of dollars going deep into the tax for a team that was 27th last season. My bet is they were betting on getting Zion to make up for the revenue they would be losing in tax but that didnt happen and falling out of the top 3 has forced them to make some difficult decisions.

dont know really how much trading for Smith and waiving him only costing Miami his partial (grandfathered pre cba change) really helps Miami this year but if by sending out jj who has a po is 2020 they get him off the books going into next summer and im also not sure how likely Miami ever was to keep the guaranteed deal of the 13th pick anyway...but i still think the crabbe and 27/31 for smith is most probable because that deal alone puts the Nets in 2 max teratory .
also think okc #21 is in play as well.

I’d agree that Miami might may not have the most to gain from JR contract, especially compared to other teams. Shams mentioned this scenario in an article yesterday so I was just piggybacking off of it.

Miami could position themselves for a 2020 Free Agency by making this a bigger deal than JR for (insert individual player here). If they took on JR AND, say, Tristan, they could clear a max slot next year.

I know this FA class is the one to be in. But if Kawhi, KD, Kyrie, etc. take short term deals, the Heat could be a major player next summer. I have nothing suggest those guys are going to take short deals, just playing out a scenario that I’m sure front offices are thinking about.

I'm sure our hope is to free up cap space for this season but we still need Dragic and Whiteside to opt out to even have a shot of getting any cap space let alone a max (which is unlikely). Also when teams like the Lakers, Knicks, Nets and Clippers have the cap space and assets to pretty easily get enough for two max slots makes it very difficult for Miami to sell one of the top free agents on coming to Miami to play alone even if we do end up with enough cap space for a max.

It is highly unlikely those players you mentioned sign a 1&1 contract to become free agents again next season. 2020 free agency is headlined by Kyle Lowry, Draymond Green, Demar DeRozen and Gordon Hayward... and having a bunch of cap space for that free agent crop just isn't that valuable. Losing a lottery pick for a big long shot that could backfire on us badly just doesn't make sense to me.

I still believe the deal is likely something centered around Waiters, James Johnson for JR Smith and Thompson getting you out of the tax and getting you players that expire during a better free agency in 2021 and giving us more cap room now while maintaining our flexibility next season and if there are picks involved it will likely be future 2nd rounder/s.

[Stillwater]

:o
dont know really how much trading for Smith and waiving him only costing Miami his partial (grandfathered pre cba change) really helps Miami this year but if by sending out jj who has a po is 2020 they get him off the books going into next summer and im also not sure how likely Miami ever was to keep the guaranteed deal of the 13th pick anyway...but i still think the crabbe and 27/31 for smith is most probable because that deal alone puts the Nets in 2 max teratory .
also think okc #21 is in play as well.

I’d agree that Miami might may not have the most to gain from JR contract, especially compared to other teams. Shams mentioned this scenario in an article yesterday so I was just piggybacking off of it.

Miami could position themselves for a 2020 Free Agency by making this a bigger deal than JR for (insert individual player here). If they took on JR AND, say, Tristan, they could clear a max slot next year.

I know this FA class is the one to be in. But if Kawhi, KD, Kyrie, etc. take short term deals, the Heat could be a major player next summer. I have nothing suggest those guys are going to take short deals, just playing out a scenario that I’m sure front offices are thinking about.

I'm sure our hope is to free up cap space for this season but we still need Dragic and Whiteside to opt out to even have a shot of getting any cap space let alone a max (which is unlikely). Also when teams like the Lakers, Knicks, Nets and Clippers have the cap space and assets to pretty easily get enough for two max slots makes it very difficult for Miami to sell one of the top free agents on coming to Miami to play alone even if we do end up with enough cap space for a max.

It is highly unlikely those players you mentioned sign a 1&1 contract to become free agents again next season. 2020 free agency is headlined by Kyle Lowry, Draymond Green, Demar DeRozen and Gordon Hayward... and having a bunch of cap space for that free agent crop just isn't that valuable. Losing a lottery pick for a big long shot that could backfire on us badly just doesn't make sense to me.

I still believe the deal is likely something centered around Waiters, James Johnson for JR Smith and Thompson getting you out of the tax and getting you players that expire during a better free agency in 2021 and giving us more cap room now while maintaining our flexibility next season and if there are picks involved it will likely be future 2nd rounder/s.

the only way cle deals with Miami if its just taking back 2 years of the past his prime JJ who has a PO in 2020 where it doesnt require Cle sending out assets to match salaries of Waiters + filler and it has to be 13 to cle and maybe cle gives miami 26 but that seems doubtful
If Miami is trying to deal whiteside after he exercises his po he would have to do it in that 6 hr window and i dont see cle wanting him now.

[jbk1234]

:o
dont know really how much trading for Smith and waiving him only costing Miami his partial (grandfathered pre cba change) really helps Miami this year but if by sending out jj who has a po is 2020 they get him off the books going into next summer and im also not sure how likely Miami ever was to keep the guaranteed deal of the 13th pick anyway...but i still think the crabbe and 27/31 for smith is most probable because that deal alone puts the Nets in 2 max teratory .
also think okc #21 is in play as well.

I’d agree that Miami might may not have the most to gain from JR contract, especially compared to other teams. Shams mentioned this scenario in an article yesterday so I was just piggybacking off of it.

Miami could position themselves for a 2020 Free Agency by making this a bigger deal than JR for (insert individual player here). If they took on JR AND, say, Tristan, they could clear a max slot next year.

I know this FA class is the one to be in. But if Kawhi, KD, Kyrie, etc. take short term deals, the Heat could be a major player next summer. I have nothing suggest those guys are going to take short deals, just playing out a scenario that I’m sure front offices are thinking about.

I'm sure our hope is to free up cap space for this season but we still need Dragic and Whiteside to opt out to even have a shot of getting any cap space let alone a max (which is unlikely). Also when teams like the Lakers, Knicks, Nets and Clippers have the cap space and assets to pretty easily get enough for two max slots makes it very difficult for Miami to sell one of the top free agents on coming to Miami to play alone even if we do end up with enough cap space for a max.

It is highly unlikely those players you mentioned sign a 1&1 contract to become free agents again next season. 2020 free agency is headlined by Kyle Lowry, Draymond Green, Demar DeRozen and Gordon Hayward... and having a bunch of cap space for that free agent crop just isn't that valuable. Losing a lottery pick for a big long shot that could backfire on us badly just doesn't make sense to me.

I still believe the deal is likely something centered around Waiters, James Johnson for JR Smith and Thompson getting you out of the tax and getting you players that expire during a better free agency in 2021 and giving us more cap room now while maintaining our flexibility next season and if there are picks involved it will likely be future 2nd rounder/s.

I suspect the Heat are moving back and not out of the draft. Something like No. 13 and JJ for No. 26 and JR's contract. I just can't imagine the Cavs taking Waiters unless Knight or Clarkson are going back. Knight is expiring so maybe that's in play.

In any event, this probably is dependent on someone opting out, or a team like Dallas or the Jazz agreeing to absorb Dragic's contract for free.

[Revenged25]

What about this?
Cleveland In: Eric Gordon, James Johnson, #13
Cleveland Out: Matthew Delladova, JR Smith, #26

Houston In: Dion Waiters, #26
Houston Out: Eric Gordon

Miami In: JR Smith, Matthew Delladova
Miami Out: Dion Waiters, James Johnson, #13

Miami: Gets a quality expiring back-up PG and drop a lot of salary using JR's partially guaranteed though they have to give up #13. Opens up a lot of money this off-season and next for them.

Houston: They make a lateral move if Waiters is healthy and an extra year of contract obligation, but get their pick this year back for the risk/money.

Cleveland: Gets a late lotto pick to stay in the luxury tax unless a good TT trade comes through. Gives up #26 for Gordon over Waiters due to injury concerns of Waiters, the extra year of money, and how things ended with Waiters in the past.

[jbk1234]

What about this?
Cleveland In: Eric Gordon, James Johnson, #13
Cleveland Out: Matthew Delladova, JR Smith, #26

Houston In: Dion Waiters, #26
Houston Out: Eric Gordon

Miami In: JR Smith, Matthew Delladova
Miami Out: Dion Waiters, James Johnson, #13

Miami: Gets a quality expiring back-up PG and drop a lot of salary using JR's partially guaranteed though they have to give up #13. Opens up a lot of money this off-season and next for them.

Houston: They make a lateral move if Waiters is healthy and an extra year of contract obligation, but get their pick this year back for the risk/money.

Cleveland: Gets a late lotto pick to stay in the luxury tax unless a good TT trade comes through. Gives up #26 for Gordon over Waiters due to injury concerns of Waiters, the extra year of money, and how things ended with Waiters in the past.

Only the Cavs say yes. I think the Heat are looking to clear space now which is why No. 13 for No. 26 and cap relief makes sense. Waiters and No. 26 really doesn't do anything for the Rockets. There's also the issue of do you want to give the guy you draft at No. 5 minutes, or not?

[Revenged25]

What about this?
Cleveland In: Eric Gordon, James Johnson, #13
Cleveland Out: Matthew Delladova, JR Smith, #26

Houston In: Dion Waiters, #26
Houston Out: Eric Gordon

Miami In: JR Smith, Matthew Delladova
Miami Out: Dion Waiters, James Johnson, #13

Miami: Gets a quality expiring back-up PG and drop a lot of salary using JR's partially guaranteed though they have to give up #13. Opens up a lot of money this off-season and next for them.

Houston: They make a lateral move if Waiters is healthy and an extra year of contract obligation, but get their pick this year back for the risk/money.

Cleveland: Gets a late lotto pick to stay in the luxury tax unless a good TT trade comes through. Gives up #26 for Gordon over Waiters due to injury concerns of Waiters, the extra year of money, and how things ended with Waiters in the past.

Only the Cavs say yes. I think the Heat are looking to clear space now which is why No. 13 for No. 26 and cap relief makes sense. Waiters and No. 26 really doesn't do anything for the Rockets. There's also the issue of do you want to give the guy you draft at No. 5 minutes, or not?

Delly costs 4 mil less than Waiters, not to mention the 12.5 mil that they would save compared Johnson by waiving JR's contract so that's 16 mil in immediate relief for them, more than what they could've gotten by moving just one, not to mention that Delly is a quality vet PG on an expiring contract so they could probably flip him if/when they need to.

For Houston it's at worst a lateral move for them with Waiters and Gordon if Waiters is healthy, but getting their pick back they can either draft someone with it or use it in another package to improve their roster for a win-now move.

In regards to the #5 pick, I understand wanting to play them, but it also depends on who we draft. I just put them at SG behind Gordon because it's a spot of need, much like back-up SF/PF are. If say the Cavs decide to go Reddish at #5 who could be in 2/3 role then he can fit in minutes at two spots. If they do the same at #13 with a SF/PF with say Sekou, then there are a lot of variations to the line-up possible. Also Gordon only has one year, so at most this just lets us bring along whoever is drafted at #5 a little slower and not have to put as much pressure on them to succeed right away to right the ship.

Now if you have any other suggestions on how to improve such a trade I'm willing to listen as well.

[Stillwater]

Rockets are not trading Gordon for Waiters
Cavs are not trading Smith for Waiters either...
The bidding war:
For Miami to outbid BKN they have to include the 13th I mean eating 1 yr of Johnson who has a PO in 2020 isn't happening without the 13.
The Nets unloading 1 yr of Crabbe at a little more salary going back to CLE should require the 17th with Miami at the table even though it's only 1 yr guaranteed and Crabbe is more playable in CLE but the Nets need this deal more because it helps them more right away imo so if Miami and Nets are fighting for the contract I think the Cavs can walk away with 1 yr of Crabbe and the 17th
or 2 yrs of JJ and 13.
Another possibility is Miami doesn't want to pay that price and BKN refuses to send the 17 knowing that unless a 3rd team is at the table like OKC offering the 21st.

[VCfor3]

I was going through and trying to do a one-man mock offseason and I was surprised at how quickly salary dump options dried up. Would Cleveland really go into the tax for a salary dump? I feel like JR Smith for JJ+13 is more than the Heat would be willing to give up but I'm sure you guys could figure out what lesser asset you'd be willing to give up to get it done.

[Revenged25]

I was going through and trying to do a one-man mock offseason and I was surprised at how quickly salary dump options dried up. Would Cleveland really go into the tax for a salary dump? I feel like JR Smith for JJ+13 is more than the Heat would be willing to give up but I'm sure you guys could figure out what lesser asset you'd be willing to give up to get it done.

For a lotto pick, going into the tax is worth it. If it's less than that value it wouldn't be worth it. I mean the Cavs don't actually need to do any moves, other teams want the cap space for FA so either they offer what the Cavs ask for or they just cut JR and stay out of the tax.

[Revenged25]

Rockets are not trading Gordon for Waiters
Cavs are not trading Smith for Waiters either...
The bidding war:
For Miami to outbid BKN they have to include the 13th I mean eating 1 yr of Johnson who has a PO in 2020 isn't happening without the 13.
The Nets unloading 1 yr of Crabbe at a little more salary going back to CLE should require the 17th with Miami at the table even though it's only 1 yr guaranteed and Crabbe is more playable in CLE but the Nets need this deal more because it helps them more right away imo so if Miami and Nets are fighting for the contract I think the Cavs can walk away with 1 yr of Crabbe and the 17th
or 2 yrs of JJ and 13.
Another possibility is Miami doesn't want to pay that price and BKN refuses to send the 17 knowing that unless a 3rd team is at the table like OKC offering the 21st.

Well it was Waiters and #26... but ok, I get it. I was just thinking that regardless of what we do at #5, getting an actually good vet guard like Gordon to play next to Sexton would really help the team develop and push for a playoff spot.

It will be interesting to see what happens with JR and either Miami or the Nets.

[VCfor3]

I was going through and trying to do a one-man mock offseason and I was surprised at how quickly salary dump options dried up. Would Cleveland really go into the tax for a salary dump? I feel like JR Smith for JJ+13 is more than the Heat would be willing to give up but I'm sure you guys could figure out what lesser asset you'd be willing to give up to get it done.

For a lotto pick, going into the tax is worth it. If it's less than that value it wouldn't be worth it. I mean the Cavs don't actually need to do any moves, other teams want the cap space for FA so either they offer what the Cavs ask for or they just cut JR and stay out of the tax.

I had a three team deal that basically was JR+2020 UTA 2nd for Felicio+22 but may undo it. My thought was you could stretch someone like Clarkson or Knight and be back under the tax. I'm leaning towards undoing that though since I had set that deal up before everything dried up.

[jbk1234]

I was going through and trying to do a one-man mock offseason and I was surprised at how quickly salary dump options dried up. Would Cleveland really go into the tax for a salary dump? I feel like JR Smith for JJ+13 is more than the Heat would be willing to give up but I'm sure you guys could figure out what lesser asset you'd be willing to give up to get it done.

Read on Twitter

[Stillwater]

I was going through and trying to do a one-man mock offseason and I was surprised at how quickly salary dump options dried up. Would Cleveland really go into the tax for a salary dump? I feel like JR Smith for JJ+13 is more than the Heat would be willing to give up but I'm sure you guys could figure out what lesser asset you'd be willing to give up to get it done.

Read on Twitter

Well so much for JR to BKN...
Miami better give up that 13