2021-22 regular season thread

[LivingLegend]

Well, Simmons is a DPOY candidate and Rubio is just sort of average-to-above-average defensively. Calling them both "exceptional" is a stretch.

Rubio's better than him offensively though. Simmons having no shooting range, to say nothing of his free throw issues and contract, just make it too problematic for me. If we were in the Kings situation, losing more than winning with young guys who disappointed, sure, take the chance. But it just seems crazy to me offer real value when things are going well.

Simmons makes his twos at a decent rate. As long as the FT issue was a slump and not a permanent decline, I have Rubio and Simmons as equal offensively.

I'm not arguing for the Cavs to make a Simmons trade (off-court performance matters too, especially with this team), I'm just saying he's a better player than Rubio if his head's on straight.

Having Simmons, Mobley and Allen on the court at the same time is not sustainable. It works with Lauri because he can shoot but idk how you toss a lineup out there or 3 guys who primarily work in the paint--not to mention Okoro if he is isn't involved in this hypothetical trade.

[KuruptedCav]

Well, Simmons is a DPOY candidate and Rubio is just sort of average-to-above-average defensively. Calling them both "exceptional" is a stretch.

Rubio's better than him offensively though. Simmons having no shooting range, to say nothing of his free throw issues and contract, just make it too problematic for me. If we were in the Kings situation, losing more than winning with young guys who disappointed, sure, take the chance. But it just seems crazy to me offer real value when things are going well.

Simmons makes his twos at a decent rate. As long as the FT issue was a slump and not a permanent decline, I have Rubio and Simmons as equal offensively.

I'm not arguing for the Cavs to make a Simmons trade (off-court performance matters too, especially with this team), I'm just saying he's a better player than Rubio if his head's on straight.

Better player, objectively yes. But he’s also on a 28% max contract and his offensive game overlaps instead of complements with Allen and Garland…


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[jbk1234]

Well, Simmons is a DPOY candidate and Rubio is just sort of average-to-above-average defensively. Calling them both "exceptional" is a stretch.

Rubio's better than him offensively though. Simmons having no shooting range, to say nothing of his free throw issues and contract, just make it too problematic for me. If we were in the Kings situation, losing more than winning with young guys who disappointed, sure, take the chance. But it just seems crazy to me offer real value when things are going well.

Simmons makes his twos at a decent rate. As long as the FT issue was a slump and not a permanent decline, I have Rubio and Simmons as equal offensively.

I'm not arguing for the Cavs to make a Simmons trade (off-court performance matters too, especially with this team), I'm just saying he's a better player than Rubio if his head's on straight.

He makes the majority of those twos from in or near the paint. I'd rather stick with Okoro, who might actually turn into a replacement level guy offensively, than trade for someone who opposing teams well sag off of even more. The little bit of shooting improvement Okoro has shown this season is more than Simmons has shown in 5 years.

[toooskies]

Rubio's better than him offensively though. Simmons having no shooting range, to say nothing of his free throw issues and contract, just make it too problematic for me. If we were in the Kings situation, losing more than winning with young guys who disappointed, sure, take the chance. But it just seems crazy to me offer real value when things are going well.

Simmons makes his twos at a decent rate. As long as the FT issue was a slump and not a permanent decline, I have Rubio and Simmons as equal offensively.

I'm not arguing for the Cavs to make a Simmons trade (off-court performance matters too, especially with this team), I'm just saying he's a better player than Rubio if his head's on straight.

He makes the majority of those twos from in or near the paint. I'd rather stick with Okoro, who might actually turn into a replacement level guy offensively, than trade for someone who opposing teams well sag off of even more. The little bit of shooting improvement Okoro has shown this season is more than Simmons has shown in 5 years.

I think you're underrating Simmons based on a passive playoff series that may have been due to his slump as well as coaching decisions-- he is a three-time all-star and not just because of his defense-- but yes, I'd rather add a Dort or Thybulle given that we have two good ballhandlers already.

[KuruptedCav]

Simmons makes his twos at a decent rate. As long as the FT issue was a slump and not a permanent decline, I have Rubio and Simmons as equal offensively.

I'm not arguing for the Cavs to make a Simmons trade (off-court performance matters too, especially with this team), I'm just saying he's a better player than Rubio if his head's on straight.

He makes the majority of those twos from in or near the paint. I'd rather stick with Okoro, who might actually turn into a replacement level guy offensively, than trade for someone who opposing teams well sag off of even more. The little bit of shooting improvement Okoro has shown this season is more than Simmons has shown in 5 years.

I think you're underrating Simmons based on a passive playoff series that may have been due to his slump as well as coaching decisions-- he is a three-time all-star and not just because of his defense-- but yes, I'd rather add a Dort or Thybulle given that we have two good ballhandlers already.

It’s more than just a series. There isn’t a shot outside of 10 feet that he’s taken confidently in his career.


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[jbk1234]

He makes the majority of those twos from in or near the paint. I'd rather stick with Okoro, who might actually turn into a replacement level guy offensively, than trade for someone who opposing teams well sag off of even more. The little bit of shooting improvement Okoro has shown this season is more than Simmons has shown in 5 years.

I think you're underrating Simmons based on a passive playoff series that may have been due to his slump as well as coaching decisions-- he is a three-time all-star and not just because of his defense-- but yes, I'd rather add a Dort or Thybulle given that we have two good ballhandlers already.

It’s more than just a series. There isn’t a shot outside of 10 feet that he’s taken confidently in his career.


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This. He won't even take them. My biggest fear is the spacing is a train wreck, his value plummets even further, and we have to an asset to move him or bring him off the bench for 4 years instead of Love's two.

[toooskies]

I think you're underrating Simmons based on a passive playoff series that may have been due to his slump as well as coaching decisions-- he is a three-time all-star and not just because of his defense-- but yes, I'd rather add a Dort or Thybulle given that we have two good ballhandlers already.

It’s more than just a series. There isn’t a shot outside of 10 feet that he’s taken confidently in his career.


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This. He won't even take them. My biggest fear is the spacing is a train wreck, his value plummets even further, and we have to an asset to move him or bring him off the bench for 4 years instead of Love's two.

And despite that he has accumulated a 15/8/8 and makes all-star games, so let's not reduce him to his lack of an outside shot when if he's bad at them he shouldn't be taking them anyway. You want him deferring to Seth Curry when Curry was shooting 60% from three like he was in last year's playoffs..

We probably agree more than the argument here and I don't want Simmons on the Cavs, but he's clearly a better player than Okoro or Rubio in a vacuum. Not worth the salary or headaches or cultural fit or the adjustment of the offense,

[jbk1234]

It’s more than just a series. There isn’t a shot outside of 10 feet that he’s taken confidently in his career.


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This. He won't even take them. My biggest fear is the spacing is a train wreck, his value plummets even further, and we have to an asset to move him or bring him off the bench for 4 years instead of Love's two.

And despite that he has accumulated a 15/8/8 and makes all-star games, so let's not reduce him to his lack of an outside shot when if he's bad at them he shouldn't be taking them anyway. You want him deferring to Seth Curry when Curry was shooting 60% from three like he was in last year's playoffs..

We probably agree more than the argument here and I don't want Simmons on the Cavs, but he's clearly a better player than Okoro or Rubio in a vacuum. Not worth the salary or headaches or cultural fit or the adjustment of the offense,

The first issue is the roster construction of the two separate teams. Embiid changed his game for Ben and started stepping out to the three point line to help with spacing, Seth Curry is one of the best shooters in the NBA, D. Green is a better than league average 3 point shooter, and T. Harris has a very solid mid range game.

Most of Ben's points, and 15 ppg is not a lot of points for a guy on a max deal, are the result of fast break opportunities or the lane being vacated by defenders. He could very well perform worse, and grow more frustrated, if he's traded to a roster like the one the Cavs have.

[jbk1234]

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[JonFromVA]

This. He won't even take them. My biggest fear is the spacing is a train wreck, his value plummets even further, and we have to an asset to move him or bring him off the bench for 4 years instead of Love's two.

And despite that he has accumulated a 15/8/8 and makes all-star games, so let's not reduce him to his lack of an outside shot when if he's bad at them he shouldn't be taking them anyway. You want him deferring to Seth Curry when Curry was shooting 60% from three like he was in last year's playoffs..

We probably agree more than the argument here and I don't want Simmons on the Cavs, but he's clearly a better player than Okoro or Rubio in a vacuum. Not worth the salary or headaches or cultural fit or the adjustment of the offense,

The first issue is the roster construction of the two separate teams. Embiid changed his game for Ben and started stepping out to the three point line to help with spacing, Seth Curry is one of the best shooters in the NBA, D. Green is a better than league average 3 point shooter, and T. Harris has a very solid mid range game.

Most of Ben's points, and 15 ppg is not a lot of points for a guy on a max deal, are the result of fast break opportunities or the lane being vacated by defenders. He could very well perform worse, and grow more frustrated, if he's traded to a roster like the one the Cavs have.

Yep, Ben has been fantastic running transition offense, it's hard to see the fit here. Sure, crazy good defense, but we're getting defense from Okoro for a lot lot cheaper.

I suppose the Garland news was inevitable, at least Pangos was getting a little run before it hit and seemed to be getting more comfortable; but Rubio and Pangos haven't had it yet ...

The "protocols" in place are a joke.

[jbk1234]

If Rubio is out for the season, we need to trade for a backup PG.

[JonFromVA]

If Rubio is out for the season, we need to trade for a backup PG.

A lot of former and gleague players are getting a look on 10 days, if any of them look any good we should be able to sign one pretty easily if we have the minutes.

I wonder if JBB will trust Pangos enough to give him an extended look ... see if he gets at least to the point he doesn't look overwhelmed and see if he can help then.

I hate to think JBB's propensity to pile minutes on the guys he trusts may have ended Ricky's season and could do the same to Darius.

[toooskies]

Yep, there are a lot of players out there on display if we want to find someone slightly above the Kevin Pangos level.

But along with backup PG, we've also lost our crunch-time SG. We won't find that in the bargain bin.

[Revenged25]

Yep, there are a lot of players out there on display if we want to find someone slightly above the Kevin Pangos level.

But along with backup PG, we've also lost our crunch-time SG. We won't find that in the bargain bin.

Maybe if John Wall accepts a buyout the Cavs can bring him in for the MLE.

[jbk1234]

Yep, there are a lot of players out there on display if we want to find someone slightly above the Kevin Pangos level.

But along with backup PG, we've also lost our crunch-time SG. We won't find that in the bargain bin.

Maybe if John Wall accepts a buyout the Cavs can bring him in for the MLE.

John Wall won't even come off the bench for the Rockets. He's not taking a buyout, unless it's like .95 cents on the dollar and I can't see the Rockets doing that.

[Catchall]

The Jazz may be willing to move Joe Ingles. He can play at the 1, 2 or 3 and he's really good at running pick-and-roll sets with mobile bigs. I'm guessing the Jazz would be interested in Cedi Osman coming back. A deal might need to involve a 3rd team.

[jbk1234]

The Jazz may be willing to move Joe Ingles. He can play at the 1, 2 or 3 and he's really good at running pick-and-roll sets with mobile bigs. I'm guessing the Jazz would be interested in Cedi Osman coming back. A deal might need to involve a 3rd team.

Ingles is an emergency PG at best. We tried that with Cedi last year and it didn't work. We need an actual backup.

[jbk1234]

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[TheLand13]

Yep, there are a lot of players out there on display if we want to find someone slightly above the Kevin Pangos level.

But along with backup PG, we've also lost our crunch-time SG. We won't find that in the bargain bin.

Maybe if John Wall accepts a buyout the Cavs can bring him in for the MLE.

John Wall won't even come off the bench for the Rockets. He's not taking a buyout, unless it's like .95 cents on the dollar and I can't see the Rockets doing that.

I think Wall might be willing to come off the bench if it's for a contender as opposed to the Rockets who have no chance of contending.

[Harper4Ferry?]

Dragic maybe? Seems like a good fit (only) if he wants to be here.