2021-22 regular season thread

[ijspeelman]

I just looked at our next 5 games....oh boy....

If we go 2-3 I will be happy and hope thats not enough to drop them all the way out.

We could really use a team like BOS or CHI to start crapping the bed right about now.

Yes, we were very fortunate Indiana gift-tanked us that game.

Unfortunately, we're back on the treadmill with Rondo wondering if he's going to actually start contributing while pondering when/if JBB will have the guts to tag Goodwin who'd shown some promise; and wondering how long LeVert will take to make a positive impact.

Earlier in the season we over-achieved in these circumstances, but funny how our supposedly easy schedule looks pretty hard.

Definitely need to see Goodwin starting over Rondo. Rondo is usually pretty smart with his passes, but he doesn't make the defense react, he reacts to the defense. This causes him not to be a good playmaker in the half-court (when there is little to no offensive movement). Goodwin is kinda Sexton-lite in that he can drive into the paint with his speed, but he definitely looks more to pass than Sexton ever has. He has pretty solid vision and can hit the roll-man, dish it out to open shooters on drives, and make the extra pass whereas Rondo definitely has the vision in spades to do these things, but as stated previously doesn't fold the defense into creating these open looks.

Side note: doesn't help that the 6ers are now rolling with Harden (has made our easy schedule exponentially harder with this and the massive amount of missed time from our guys)

[JonFromVA]

I just looked at our next 5 games....oh boy....

If we go 2-3 I will be happy and hope thats not enough to drop them all the way out.

We could really use a team like BOS or CHI to start crapping the bed right about now.

Yes, we were very fortunate Indiana gift-tanked us that game.

Unfortunately, we're back on the treadmill with Rondo wondering if he's going to actually start contributing while pondering when/if JBB will have the guts to tag Goodwin who'd shown some promise; and wondering how long LeVert will take to make a positive impact.

Earlier in the season we over-achieved in these circumstances, but funny how our supposedly easy schedule looks pretty hard.

Definitely need to see Goodwin starting over Rondo. Rondo is usually pretty smart with his passes, but he doesn't make the defense react, he reacts to the defense. This causes him not to be a good playmaker in the half-court (when there is little to no offensive movement). Goodwin is kinda Sexton-lite in that he can drive into the paint with his speed, but he definitely looks more to pass than Sexton ever has. He has pretty solid vision and can hit the roll-man, dish it out to open shooters on drives, and make the extra pass whereas Rondo definitely has the vision in spades to do these things, but as stated previously doesn't fold the defense into creating these open looks.

Side note: doesn't help that the 6ers are now rolling with Harden (has made our easy schedule exponentially harder with this and the massive amount of missed time from our guys)

Garland scored 41 points on 26 shots last night, Kyrie scored 50 on 19.

For fun I counted up how many times Garland attempted a shot on something which might be considered a potential assist from a teammate using nba.com's video box score and came up with 2 out of 26. When I did the same for Kyrie, I counted 11 of 19.

Of course Kyrie was having a crazy game and was knocking down shots with a defender right up on him and he had his share of 1v5 hero shots as well; but DG's work load right now is pretty nuts just for us to eek out a win over the Pacers.

Garland is so good off-the-ball, it's simply wasted points we're not taking advantage of.

[LivingLegend]

Yes, we were very fortunate Indiana gift-tanked us that game.

Unfortunately, we're back on the treadmill with Rondo wondering if he's going to actually start contributing while pondering when/if JBB will have the guts to tag Goodwin who'd shown some promise; and wondering how long LeVert will take to make a positive impact.

Earlier in the season we over-achieved in these circumstances, but funny how our supposedly easy schedule looks pretty hard.

Definitely need to see Goodwin starting over Rondo. Rondo is usually pretty smart with his passes, but he doesn't make the defense react, he reacts to the defense. This causes him not to be a good playmaker in the half-court (when there is little to no offensive movement). Goodwin is kinda Sexton-lite in that he can drive into the paint with his speed, but he definitely looks more to pass than Sexton ever has. He has pretty solid vision and can hit the roll-man, dish it out to open shooters on drives, and make the extra pass whereas Rondo definitely has the vision in spades to do these things, but as stated previously doesn't fold the defense into creating these open looks.

Side note: doesn't help that the 6ers are now rolling with Harden (has made our easy schedule exponentially harder with this and the massive amount of missed time from our guys)

Garland scored 41 points on 26 shots last night, Kyrie scored 50 on 19.

For fun I counted up how many times Garland attempted a shot on something which might be considered a potential assist from a teammate using nba.com's video box score and came up with 2 out of 26. When I did the same for Kyrie, I counted 11 of 19.

Of course Kyrie was having a crazy game and was knocking down shots with a defender right up on him and he had his share of 1v5 hero shots as well; but DG's work load right now is pretty nuts just for us to eek out a win over the Pacers.

Garland is so good off-the-ball, it's simply wasted points we're not taking advantage of.

Im starting to regret everything bad Ive said about Sexton because man could we use his energy and scoring right now.

[JonFromVA]

I was going to write something about signing a big man to a 10-day yesterday, but it slipped my mind. The obvious options were Cody Zeller, Willy Caully-Stein, and Moses Brown and I was going to point out I was surprised when Brown was released given the way he'd played against us in the past (13 & 11 last year) and thought it would be cool to take a look at him, but figured the Cavs would want someone with more NBA experience like Zeller or WCS.

Well, looks like the Cavs signed Brown today to a 10-day, so perhaps we'll get that look ... of course assuming JBB is willing to play him.

https://www.nbadraft.net/players/moses-brown/

[ijspeelman]

Garland scored 41 points on 26 shots last night, Kyrie scored 50 on 19.

For fun I counted up how many times Garland attempted a shot on something which might be considered a potential assist from a teammate using nba.com's video box score and came up with 2 out of 26. When I did the same for Kyrie, I counted 11 of 19.

Of course Kyrie was having a crazy game and was knocking down shots with a defender right up on him and he had his share of 1v5 hero shots as well; but DG's work load right now is pretty nuts just for us to eek out a win over the Pacers.

Garland is so good off-the-ball, it's simply wasted points we're not taking advantage of.

JB needs to keep finding ways to have Garland move off ball. It does absolute wonders for our offense (same with him on ball, but teams are learning to deal with it more so would be a nice alternative). This is where I hope LeVert can shine, but we will have to wait and see.

[JonFromVA]

Oh, and presumably the Tim Frazier experiment has ended, albeit I haven't heard that confirmed.

[toooskies]

Oh, and presumably the Tim Frazier experiment has ended, albeit I haven't heard that confirmed.

Pretty much has to be over, the Cavs don't have the roster spot for Moses Brown otherwise?

[JonFromVA]

Oh, and presumably the Tim Frazier experiment has ended, albeit I haven't heard that confirmed.

Pretty much has to be over, the Cavs don't have the roster spot for Moses Brown otherwise?

I suppose they could release someone who's on a 2-way and try to get Brown to sign on a 2-way, but I think Frazier's 10 day was up and JBB doesn't even trust so Goodwin. Presumably Brown will be on a very short leash as well.

[LivingLegend]

Okoro is becoming borderline unplayable. The dude has had zero offensive progression in 2 years. He reminds me of a SG version of Tristan Thompson, but somehow less effective on offense.

He has no dribble moves and no pull up jumper. He cant get around his defender to save his life and his old offensive move is run as fast as possible at the rim and draw a bunch of contact.

I was the biggest Okoro supporter in the world, but Im wearing reaaaally thin.

[jbk1234]

Okoro is becoming borderline unplayable. The dude has had zero offensive progression in 2 years. He reminds me of a SG version of Tristan Thompson, but somehow less effective on offense.

He has no dribble moves and no pull up jumper. He cant get around his defender to save his life and his old offensive move is run as fast as possible at the rim and draw a bunch of contact.

I was the biggest Okoro supporter in the world, but Im wearing reaaaally thin.

With Allen out, Lauri absolutely has to step up offensively. Okoro's defense is too important. But Lauri needs to fill that gap.

[LivingLegend]

Okoro is becoming borderline unplayable. The dude has had zero offensive progression in 2 years. He reminds me of a SG version of Tristan Thompson, but somehow less effective on offense.

He has no dribble moves and no pull up jumper. He cant get around his defender to save his life and his old offensive move is run as fast as possible at the rim and draw a bunch of contact.

I was the biggest Okoro supporter in the world, but Im wearing reaaaally thin.

With Allen out, Lauri absolutely has to step up offensively. Okoro's defense is too important. But Lauri needs to fill that gap.

Is it though? Stevens provides similar enough defense, but is at least a capable scorer on offense to finish plays. I understand he is a really good defender, but he needs to just develop into a average offensive player. With Levert/Sexton/Allen out of the lineup--they cant hide him anymore. They need him to do something, anything, on offense.

It honestly feels like we play 4v5 on offense down the court evertime which reminds me of when TT was on this team.

[jbk1234]

Okoro is becoming borderline unplayable. The dude has had zero offensive progression in 2 years. He reminds me of a SG version of Tristan Thompson, but somehow less effective on offense.

He has no dribble moves and no pull up jumper. He cant get around his defender to save his life and his old offensive move is run as fast as possible at the rim and draw a bunch of contact.

I was the biggest Okoro supporter in the world, but Im wearing reaaaally thin.

With Allen out, Lauri absolutely has to step up offensively. Okoro's defense is too important. But Lauri needs to fill that gap.

Is it though? Stevens provides similar enough defense, but is at least a capable scorer on offense to finish plays. I understand he is a really good defender, but he needs to just develop into a average offensive player. With Levert/Sexton/Allen out of the lineup--they cant hide him anymore. They need him to do something, anything, on offense.

It honestly feels like we play 4v5 on offense down the court evertime which reminds me of when TT was on this team.

Stevens has no shot against elite guards. None. He's a physical defender who can body up 3s well enough, but he's not nearly the back court defender.

You need three real offensive threats on the floor. The Cavs have Garland. Mobley will get there. Allen can be a third depending on the matchup.

[LivingLegend]

With Allen out, Lauri absolutely has to step up offensively. Okoro's defense is too important. But Lauri needs to fill that gap.

Is it though? Stevens provides similar enough defense, but is at least a capable scorer on offense to finish plays. I understand he is a really good defender, but he needs to just develop into a average offensive player. With Levert/Sexton/Allen out of the lineup--they cant hide him anymore. They need him to do something, anything, on offense.

It honestly feels like we play 4v5 on offense down the court evertime which reminds me of when TT was on this team.

Stevens has no shot against elite guards. None. He's a physical defender who can body up 3s well enough, but he's not nearly the back court defender.

You need three real offensive threats on the floor. The Cavs have Garland. Mobley will get there. Allen can be a third depending on the matchup.

ehhhh, I think your selling him short. I think he holds up just fine against elite wings. Hes about the only physical player on the entire roster. He can also provide offensive competency that Okoro cant.

You can have 3 'real' threats as long as the other 2 guys are capable of pitching in some damage. Some. Anything. Something. You cant get absolutly nothing out of those other 2 guys for that philosophy to work.

[jbk1234]

Is it though? Stevens provides similar enough defense, but is at least a capable scorer on offense to finish plays. I understand he is a really good defender, but he needs to just develop into a average offensive player. With Levert/Sexton/Allen out of the lineup--they cant hide him anymore. They need him to do something, anything, on offense.

It honestly feels like we play 4v5 on offense down the court evertime which reminds me of when TT was on this team.

Stevens has no shot against elite guards. None. He's a physical defender who can body up 3s well enough, but he's not nearly the back court defender.

You need three real offensive threats on the floor. The Cavs have Garland. Mobley will get there. Allen can be a third depending on the matchup.

ehhhh, I think your selling him short. I think he holds up just fine against elite wings. Hes about the only physical player on the entire roster. He can also provide offensive competency that Okoro cant.

You can have 3 'real' threats as long as the other 2 guys are capable of pitching in some damage. Some. Anything. Something. You cant get absolutly nothing out of those other 2 guys for that philosophy to work.

We don't even have 2 real threats right now. Our offense isn't noticeably better when Cedi or Stevens are in. Our offense is noticeably better when Lauri is being aggressive and/or feeling it.

And I'm not selling Stevens short defensively. He's got no shot against quick guards. None.

[LivingLegend]

Stevens has no shot against elite guards. None. He's a physical defender who can body up 3s well enough, but he's not nearly the back court defender.

You need three real offensive threats on the floor. The Cavs have Garland. Mobley will get there. Allen can be a third depending on the matchup.

ehhhh, I think your selling him short. I think he holds up just fine against elite wings. Hes about the only physical player on the entire roster. He can also provide offensive competency that Okoro cant.

You can have 3 'real' threats as long as the other 2 guys are capable of pitching in some damage. Some. Anything. Something. You cant get absolutly nothing out of those other 2 guys for that philosophy to work.

We don't even have 2 real threats right now. Our offense isn't noticeably better when Cedi or Stevens are in. Our offense is noticeably better when Lauri is being aggressive and/or feeling it.

And I'm not selling Stevens short defensively. He's got no shot against quick guards. None.

My point being the #5 pick in the entire draft should not suck this much overall....

[JonFromVA]

Going to keep saying, we need that second guy on the floor who can dribble and create a shot. JBB tried playing Rondo and Garland together for a stretch, and it hasn't clicked.

With Allen out, perhaps the offense needs some new actions/plays to get some things going ... spamming high P&R's hasn't really been working for a while now ... most opponents are dealing with it pretty well.

It shouldn't be do or die based on whether Garland's jumper is going in.

As for Okoro, his strength right now is as a cutter and a finisher. He'd benefit from more space, alas, his shooting is contributing to our lack of it. JBB loves his defense though, so doesn't really matter.

[KuruptedCav]

ehhhh, I think your selling him short. I think he holds up just fine against elite wings. Hes about the only physical player on the entire roster. He can also provide offensive competency that Okoro cant.

You can have 3 'real' threats as long as the other 2 guys are capable of pitching in some damage. Some. Anything. Something. You cant get absolutly nothing out of those other 2 guys for that philosophy to work.

We don't even have 2 real threats right now. Our offense isn't noticeably better when Cedi or Stevens are in. Our offense is noticeably better when Lauri is being aggressive and/or feeling it.

And I'm not selling Stevens short defensively. He's got no shot against quick guards. None.

My point being the #5 pick in the entire draft should not suck this much overall....

Okoro didn’t draft himself @ #5. A players draft status is a dunk cost the minute the pick is made.

Okoro has been exactly as advertised and a significantly better shooter than when drafted. We’re still waiting on his first complete non-Covid impacted offseason.


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[LivingLegend]

We don't even have 2 real threats right now. Our offense isn't noticeably better when Cedi or Stevens are in. Our offense is noticeably better when Lauri is being aggressive and/or feeling it.

And I'm not selling Stevens short defensively. He's got no shot against quick guards. None.

My point being the #5 pick in the entire draft should not suck this much overall....

Okoro didn’t draft himself @ #5. A players draft status is a dunk cost the minute the pick is made.

Okoro has been exactly as advertised and a significantly better shooter than when drafted. We’re still waiting on his first complete non-Covid impacted offseason.


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The thing about him being 'as advertised' is that there was always a thought that he was going to grow into a contributor on offense.

In almost 2 full years his offensive game has not expanded or improved in the slightest. If you want to count shooting 30% from 3 on wide open looks in the corner because nobody guards him as improvement than fine.

[JonFromVA]

My point being the #5 pick in the entire draft should not suck this much overall....

Okoro didn’t draft himself @ #5. A players draft status is a dunk cost the minute the pick is made.

Okoro has been exactly as advertised and a significantly better shooter than when drafted. We’re still waiting on his first complete non-Covid impacted offseason.


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The thing about him being 'as advertised' is that there was always a thought that he was going to grow into a contributor on offense.

In almost 2 full years his offensive game has not expanded or improved in the slightest. If you want to count shooting 30% from 3 on wide open looks in the corner because nobody guards him as improvement than fine.

Well, he has his TS% up to 57% from 51% last year, and his BPM has improved as well but still negative (-2), but perhaps most importantly he's making a positive contribution to the team this year.

So his offensive efficiency has improved and presumably his defense.

I agree his game has not expanded, but fortunately he's still just 21 --- by comparison Jimmy Butler was still in College, and Miles Bridges was a rookie. Which is to say his game could still improve by leaps and bounds or incrementally like theirs did, not that it will.

That's always the gamble, but the wait time can be significant when a kid leaves college at 19 not because he's ready, but because he fits an athletic profile.

[KuruptedCav]

My point being the #5 pick in the entire draft should not suck this much overall....

Okoro didn’t draft himself @ #5. A players draft status is a dunk cost the minute the pick is made.

Okoro has been exactly as advertised and a significantly better shooter than when drafted. We’re still waiting on his first complete non-Covid impacted offseason.


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The thing about him being 'as advertised' is that there was always a thought that he was going to grow into a contributor on offense.

In almost 2 full years his offensive game has not expanded or improved in the slightest. If you want to count shooting 30% from 3 on wide open looks in the corner because nobody guards him as improvement than fine.

Okoro was bad offensively in college. Not raw, but bad.

He shot 28% on 3pt shots, 10% on mid-range shots, 67% on free throws, and had a 1:1 assist/to ratio.

Last year, he shot 7.7% on mid-range 10-16’ jumpers. That’s up to 25% this year.

He’s up to 31.5% from beyond the arc, 75% from the charity stripe, and an assist/to ratio of 1.8:1.

He’s bad offensively, but he’s improved. And sure, more improvement would be nice, but it is what it is. The 2020 draft was bad. Getting a quality role player out of it is solid.

Consider the next 5 picks in the top-10:
Ongeka Okongou
Killian Hayes
Obi Toppin
Deni Avdija
Jalen Smith

I suspect you wouldn’t have been happy with their development either.


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