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[JujitsuFlip]

Watching some of this Knicks and Pacers game 7. I gotta say, I love the Pacers offense. Lots of ball movement and man movement.

There has to be a head coach prospect out there who can run something like that with a retooled Cavs team.

I agree that we can run a lot more movement, but as currently constructed if there was a coach out there that could turn us into a top 2 offense in the league, they'd already be hired lol.

If the Cavs end up keeping Garland, getting both of Garland and Mitchell moving off-ball (and obvi others) would do wonders for the offense and spacing.

Pacers also have a fairly deep bench which allows them to go 100% all out all the time. Watch TJ McConnell play his heart out for 18 minutes each game

If jb had the Pacers roster, they wouldn't look deep at all lol

And yeah, i have no delusions that the team needs to be retooled to a more modern style construction. That way it will be easier to run a more modern style offense.

2 of the core 4 headed out.

[JonFromVA]

Watching some of this Knicks and Pacers game 7. I gotta say, I love the Pacers offense. Lots of ball movement and man movement.

There has to be a head coach prospect out there who can run something like that with a retooled Cavs team.

I agree that we can run a lot more movement, but as currently constructed if there was a coach out there that could turn us into a top 2 offense in the league, they'd already be hired lol.

If the Cavs end up keeping Garland, getting both of Garland and Mitchell moving off-ball (and obvi others) would do wonders for the offense and spacing.

Pacers also have a fairly deep bench which allows them to go 100% all out all the time. Watch TJ McConnell play his heart out for 18 minutes each game

The easy thing to do is pilfer the assistant coaches running these systems, because while the head coach gets all the credit; they're not always that deeply involved in the nuts & bolts.

JBB in his quest to not lose his job has always leaned heavily on his starters and a couple of backups he trusts. He could have the deepest bench in the league (which he was proclaimed to have when we were going 18-2) and he won't play them.

[toooskies]

Watching some of this Knicks and Pacers game 7. I gotta say, I love the Pacers offense. Lots of ball movement and man movement.

There has to be a head coach prospect out there who can run something like that with a retooled Cavs team.

I agree that we can run a lot more movement, but as currently constructed if there was a coach out there that could turn us into a top 2 offense in the league, they'd already be hired lol.

If the Cavs end up keeping Garland, getting both of Garland and Mitchell moving off-ball (and obvi others) would do wonders for the offense and spacing.

Pacers also have a fairly deep bench which allows them to go 100% all out all the time. Watch TJ McConnell play his heart out for 18 minutes each game

The easy thing to do is pilfer the assistant coaches running these systems, because while the head coach gets all the credit; they're not always that deeply involved in the nuts & bolts.

JBB in his quest to not lose his job has always leaned heavily on his starters and a couple of backups he trusts. He could have the deepest bench in the league (which he was proclaimed to have when we were going 18-2) and he won't play them.

All the stats say that the strongest part of our bench was that Dean Wade was on it. And while we got him back for our last two games, he didn't seem to be at full strength.

We saw over and over again that while Sam Merrill kills teams that don't play good defense, he's a liability against teams that do. He's another Luke Kennard.

Tristan Thompson gave us amazing minutes that were later proven to be performance-enhanced, and he never showed much after returning.

Georges Niang proved all year that he's a neutral player when his shot is falling and a negative player when it isn't. But let's be clear-- he was signed to be our backup 4 and JBB let Altman's decision on that ride over and over again. Marcus Morris, despite a few good games, didn't prove to be consistently different.

Okoro needs to shoot more contested shots, which we already knew. He also got screwed the most about the fouling rules as he missed a bunch of calls in the playoffs that he would've gotten before the all-star break.

LeVert is a streaky, inconsistent player. He was inconsistent at most things besides 3-point shooting in the postseason, and he was awful at that.

So while all of these guys are great in the exact right situations-- particularly when they can just out-effort weak teams where everyone is on the trading block in the doldrums of the season-- we needed to reveal that they're not playoff-level rotation pieces when everyone's giving maximum effort.

[JonFromVA]

I agree that we can run a lot more movement, but as currently constructed if there was a coach out there that could turn us into a top 2 offense in the league, they'd already be hired lol.

If the Cavs end up keeping Garland, getting both of Garland and Mitchell moving off-ball (and obvi others) would do wonders for the offense and spacing.

Pacers also have a fairly deep bench which allows them to go 100% all out all the time. Watch TJ McConnell play his heart out for 18 minutes each game

The easy thing to do is pilfer the assistant coaches running these systems, because while the head coach gets all the credit; they're not always that deeply involved in the nuts & bolts.

JBB in his quest to not lose his job has always leaned heavily on his starters and a couple of backups he trusts. He could have the deepest bench in the league (which he was proclaimed to have when we were going 18-2) and he won't play them.

All the stats say that the strongest part of our bench was that Dean Wade was on it. And while we got him back for our last two games, he didn't seem to be at full strength.

We saw over and over again that while Sam Merrill kills teams that don't play good defense, he's a liability against teams that do. He's another Luke Kennard.

Tristan Thompson gave us amazing minutes that were later proven to be performance-enhanced, and he never showed much after returning.

Georges Niang proved all year that he's a neutral player when his shot is falling and a negative player when it isn't. But let's be clear-- he was signed to be our backup 4 and JBB let Altman's decision on that ride over and over again. Marcus Morris, despite a few good games, didn't prove to be consistently different.

Okoro needs to shoot more contested shots, which we already knew. He also got screwed the most about the fouling rules as he missed a bunch of calls in the playoffs that he would've gotten before the all-star break.

LeVert is a streaky, inconsistent player. He was inconsistent at most things besides 3-point shooting in the postseason, and he was awful at that.

So while all of these guys are great in the exact right situations-- particularly when they can just out-effort weak teams where everyone is on the trading block in the doldrums of the season-- we needed to reveal that they're not playoff-level rotation pieces when everyone's giving maximum effort.

You know that's one possibility, and I would have been more open to it in the past; but I'm becoming more and more convinced the problem is that JBB simply doesn't know how to get the most out of his players (and I'm being generous putting it that way).

You want to get the most out of Niang or Merrill? Get them open.

You miss what Deaner was bringing in certain situations? Why not try Jones or Morris? Why not try Isaiah Mobley or even Pete Nance?

Want more consistency out of Caris? How about giving him some more space to work with on his drives?

Why are we relying on Isaac to shoot? That was his weakest offensive skill. He should be straight line driving, back door cutting, making simple reads and passes. Instead JBB has been dropping him in the corner and asking him to do what he does the worst for 4 years straight?!?

Tristan Thompson knows how to set an effective screen. No reason he can't still do that even after his league mandated vacation. Why not feature that when he's in the game? Unfortunately we can't run a pick and pop with him (or apparently anyone on the roster), but he knows how to see off ball screens to free up shooters. Isaac should be learning how to do that.

[toooskies]

The easy thing to do is pilfer the assistant coaches running these systems, because while the head coach gets all the credit; they're not always that deeply involved in the nuts & bolts.

JBB in his quest to not lose his job has always leaned heavily on his starters and a couple of backups he trusts. He could have the deepest bench in the league (which he was proclaimed to have when we were going 18-2) and he won't play them.

All the stats say that the strongest part of our bench was that Dean Wade was on it. And while we got him back for our last two games, he didn't seem to be at full strength.

We saw over and over again that while Sam Merrill kills teams that don't play good defense, he's a liability against teams that do. He's another Luke Kennard.

Tristan Thompson gave us amazing minutes that were later proven to be performance-enhanced, and he never showed much after returning.

Georges Niang proved all year that he's a neutral player when his shot is falling and a negative player when it isn't. But let's be clear-- he was signed to be our backup 4 and JBB let Altman's decision on that ride over and over again. Marcus Morris, despite a few good games, didn't prove to be consistently different.

Okoro needs to shoot more contested shots, which we already knew. He also got screwed the most about the fouling rules as he missed a bunch of calls in the playoffs that he would've gotten before the all-star break.

LeVert is a streaky, inconsistent player. He was inconsistent at most things besides 3-point shooting in the postseason, and he was awful at that.

So while all of these guys are great in the exact right situations-- particularly when they can just out-effort weak teams where everyone is on the trading block in the doldrums of the season-- we needed to reveal that they're not playoff-level rotation pieces when everyone's giving maximum effort.

You know that's one possibility, and I would have been more open to it in the past; but I'm becoming more and more convinced the problem is that JBB simply doesn't know how to get the most out of his players (and I'm being generous putting it that way).

You want to get the most out of Niang or Merrill? Get them open.

You miss what Deaner was bringing in certain situations? Why not try Jones or Morris? Why not try Isaiah Mobley or even Pete Nance?

Want more consistency out of Caris? How about giving him some more space to work with on his drives?

Why are we relying on Isaac to shoot? That was his weakest offensive skill. He should be straight line driving, back door cutting, making simple reads and passes. Instead JBB has been dropping him in the corner and asking him to do what he does the worst for 4 years straight?!?

Tristan Thompson knows how to set an effective screen. No reason he can't still do that even after his league mandated vacation. Why not feature that when he's in the game? Unfortunately we can't run a pick and pop with him (or apparently anyone on the roster), but he knows how to see off ball screens to free up shooters. Isaac should be learning how to do that.

To start, go look at Niang's ratios of wide open to open or tightly guarded shots on NBA.com and tell me he didn't get open shots. He did; he simply shot badly on them this year. He shot 9% on wide open 3s in the playoffs.

Marcus Morris might be a similar physical profile to Dean Wade but he did not have the same statistical impact.

I'm fine with subjective analysis but it needs to not disagree with measurable data to ring true to me.

[JonFromVA]

All the stats say that the strongest part of our bench was that Dean Wade was on it. And while we got him back for our last two games, he didn't seem to be at full strength.

We saw over and over again that while Sam Merrill kills teams that don't play good defense, he's a liability against teams that do. He's another Luke Kennard.

Tristan Thompson gave us amazing minutes that were later proven to be performance-enhanced, and he never showed much after returning.

Georges Niang proved all year that he's a neutral player when his shot is falling and a negative player when it isn't. But let's be clear-- he was signed to be our backup 4 and JBB let Altman's decision on that ride over and over again. Marcus Morris, despite a few good games, didn't prove to be consistently different.

Okoro needs to shoot more contested shots, which we already knew. He also got screwed the most about the fouling rules as he missed a bunch of calls in the playoffs that he would've gotten before the all-star break.

LeVert is a streaky, inconsistent player. He was inconsistent at most things besides 3-point shooting in the postseason, and he was awful at that.

So while all of these guys are great in the exact right situations-- particularly when they can just out-effort weak teams where everyone is on the trading block in the doldrums of the season-- we needed to reveal that they're not playoff-level rotation pieces when everyone's giving maximum effort.

You know that's one possibility, and I would have been more open to it in the past; but I'm becoming more and more convinced the problem is that JBB simply doesn't know how to get the most out of his players (and I'm being generous putting it that way).

You want to get the most out of Niang or Merrill? Get them open.

You miss what Deaner was bringing in certain situations? Why not try Jones or Morris? Why not try Isaiah Mobley or even Pete Nance?

Want more consistency out of Caris? How about giving him some more space to work with on his drives?

Why are we relying on Isaac to shoot? That was his weakest offensive skill. He should be straight line driving, back door cutting, making simple reads and passes. Instead JBB has been dropping him in the corner and asking him to do what he does the worst for 4 years straight?!?

Tristan Thompson knows how to set an effective screen. No reason he can't still do that even after his league mandated vacation. Why not feature that when he's in the game? Unfortunately we can't run a pick and pop with him (or apparently anyone on the roster), but he knows how to see off ball screens to free up shooters. Isaac should be learning how to do that.

To start, go look at Niang's ratios of wide open to open or tightly guarded shots on NBA.com and tell me he didn't get open shots. He did; he simply shot badly on them this year. He shot 9% on wide open 3s in the playoffs.

Marcus Morris might be a similar physical profile to Dean Wade but he did not have the same statistical impact.

I'm fine with subjective analysis but it needs to not disagree with measurable data to ring true to me.

The "measurable data" in this case loses a ton of context.

[jbk1234]

Man, Butler is insisting on a full max extension from the Heat and he wants it from another team if he doesn't get it from them. No way I'm giving him that at 35. It's not quite as bad as Leonard's extension, but it would be extremely unwise.

[JonFromVA]

Man, Butler is insisting on a full max extension from the Heat and he wants it from another team if he doesn't get it from them. No way I'm giving him that at 35. It's not quite as bad as Leonard's extension, but it would be extremely unwise.

Riley doesn't seem the type to reward a player for past performance, but might Butler have a couple more good ones?

If he could stay healthy and Miami can stay in contention it's almost justifiable

[jbk1234]

The Celtics are just at another level with a healthy Porzingis. The Cavs better think long and hard about moving Allen because, if healthy, the road to the Finals is going to run through Boston until Jrue declines or White leaves. It really sucks that JA got injured because we're just guessing as to what a full strength matchup would've looked like.

[JonFromVA]

The Celtics are just at another level with a healthy Porzingis. The Cavs better think long and hard about moving Allen because, if healthy, the road to the Finals is going to run through Boston until Jrue declines or White leaves. It really sucks that JA got injured because we're just guessing as to what a full strength matchup would've looked like.

The odds of Porizingis being healthy for a series are fairly low, but that seems to apply to our entire team.

I thought Horford was cooked years ago when Boston traded him away, but presumably he can't go on forever.

[jbk1234]

The Celtics are just at another level with a healthy Porzingis. The Cavs better think long and hard about moving Allen because, if healthy, the road to the Finals is going to run through Boston until Jrue declines or White leaves. It really sucks that JA got injured because we're just guessing as to what a full strength matchup would've looked like.

The odds of Porizingis being healthy for a series are fairly low, but that seems to apply to our entire team.

I thought Horford was cooked years ago when Boston traded him away, but presumably he can't go on forever.

I suspect he could've come back earlier if the Celtics felt they needed him, but it wasn't just the Cavs who were injured in the East. Every team besides the Magic had injuries to key players. Embiid played through his, but I'm willing to call this postseason a bit of an anomaly.

[JujitsuFlip]

The Celtics are just at another level with a healthy Porzingis. The Cavs better think long and hard about moving Allen because, if healthy, the road to the Finals is going to run through Boston until Jrue declines or White leaves. It really sucks that JA got injured because we're just guessing as to what a full strength matchup would've looked like.

I almost made a similar post last night. Having 5 guys who can shoot and defend up and down the 8 man rotation is crucial in today's NBA.

The days of having defensive specialist and shooting specialist and maybe like 'tough guy' specialist are long gone. So are the days of 2 or 3 guys in the front court who can't/won't shoot.

Too bad our PoBo is living in the 90s.

[jbk1234]

The Celtics are just at another level with a healthy Porzingis. The Cavs better think long and hard about moving Allen because, if healthy, the road to the Finals is going to run through Boston until Jrue declines or White leaves. It really sucks that JA got injured because we're just guessing as to what a full strength matchup would've looked like.

I almost made a similar post last night. Having 5 guys who can shoot and defend up and down the 8 man rotation is crucial in today's NBA.

The days of having defensive specialist and shooting specialist and maybe like 'tough guy' specialist are long gone. So are the days of 2 or 3 guys in the front court who can't/won't shoot.

Too bad our PoBo is living in the 90s.

I mean the Celtics are the best team in the NBA for a reason (even with that Tatum and Brown are adequate, not good defenders). The Mavericks don't have 5 guys who can shoot and defend.

My point is that unless the Cavs are getting Ingram back in an Allen trade, and Ingram needs to be open to a sub-max deal, they shouldn't trade Allen. Someone needs to be able to guard Tatum and someone needs to be able to guard Porzingis. You're going to have to out rebound them (which is how we won Game 2) because you can't trade possessions. It wouldn't surprise me if we see Gafford and Lively on the floor together before this series is over.

[JonFromVA]

The Celtics are just at another level with a healthy Porzingis. The Cavs better think long and hard about moving Allen because, if healthy, the road to the Finals is going to run through Boston until Jrue declines or White leaves. It really sucks that JA got injured because we're just guessing as to what a full strength matchup would've looked like.

I almost made a similar post last night. Having 5 guys who can shoot and defend up and down the 8 man rotation is crucial in today's NBA.

The days of having defensive specialist and shooting specialist and maybe like 'tough guy' specialist are long gone. So are the days of 2 or 3 guys in the front court who can't/won't shoot.

Too bad our PoBo is living in the 90s.

I mean the Celtics are the best team in the NBA for a reason (even with that Tatum and Brown are adequate, not good defenders). The Mavericks don't have 5 guys who can shoot and defend.

My point is that unless the Cavs are getting Ingram back in an Allen trade, and Ingram needs to be open to a sub-max deal, they shouldn't trade Allen. Someone needs to be able to guard Tatum and someone needs to be able to guard Porzingis. You're going to have to out rebound them (which is how we won Game 2) because you can't trade possessions. It wouldn't surprise me if we see Gafford and Lively on the floor together before this series is over.

Yeah, it's not like Koby doesn't want a team full of 7'3" players who can do everything, but there are trade offs. I look at guys like Gafford, Lively, and Claxton getting a lot of hype; but Allen is better than any of them and having two bigs who can rim protect is pretty nice when the team your facing is able to draw one of your bigs out of the paint.

Of course if you have wings and guards who are physical enough to hold their ground against a much larger player, you may be able to survive a paint mismatch, but that's another luxury we're lacking.

[JujitsuFlip]

The Celtics are just at another level with a healthy Porzingis. The Cavs better think long and hard about moving Allen because, if healthy, the road to the Finals is going to run through Boston until Jrue declines or White leaves. It really sucks that JA got injured because we're just guessing as to what a full strength matchup would've looked like.

I almost made a similar post last night. Having 5 guys who can shoot and defend up and down the 8 man rotation is crucial in today's NBA.

The days of having defensive specialist and shooting specialist and maybe like 'tough guy' specialist are long gone. So are the days of 2 or 3 guys in the front court who can't/won't shoot.

Too bad our PoBo is living in the 90s.

I mean the Celtics are the best team in the NBA for a reason (even with that Tatum and Brown are adequate, not good defenders). The Mavericks don't have 5 guys who can shoot and defend.

My point is that unless the Cavs are getting Ingram back in an Allen trade, and Ingram needs to be open to a sub-max deal, they shouldn't trade Allen. Someone needs to be able to guard Tatum and someone needs to be able to guard Porzingis. You're going to have to out rebound them (which is how we won Game 2) because you can't trade possessions. It wouldn't surprise me if we see Gafford and Lively on the floor together before this series is over.

They may just be passable but they have the size and speed needed on the wing that the Cavs sorely lack every time that kid from Akron jumps ship the past 2 decades.

As far as your conclusion, i come to the complete opposite conclusion. Put Maxi at 5, PJ at 4, Hardaway or a decent shooter at 3 with Luka and Kai.

All night you saw the Celtics with 2 or 3 guys sinking in the paint bc none of the Mavs 5s shoot, an awful archetype for today's NBA, cough Allen. You see DJJ being left like teams do Okoro and PJ is streaky.

[jbk1234]

I almost made a similar post last night. Having 5 guys who can shoot and defend up and down the 8 man rotation is crucial in today's NBA.

The days of having defensive specialist and shooting specialist and maybe like 'tough guy' specialist are long gone. So are the days of 2 or 3 guys in the front court who can't/won't shoot.

Too bad our PoBo is living in the 90s.

I mean the Celtics are the best team in the NBA for a reason (even with that Tatum and Brown are adequate, not good defenders). The Mavericks don't have 5 guys who can shoot and defend.

My point is that unless the Cavs are getting Ingram back in an Allen trade, and Ingram needs to be open to a sub-max deal, they shouldn't trade Allen. Someone needs to be able to guard Tatum and someone needs to be able to guard Porzingis. You're going to have to out rebound them (which is how we won Game 2) because you can't trade possessions. It wouldn't surprise me if we see Gafford and Lively on the floor together before this series is over.

They may just be passable but they have the size and speed needed on the wing that the Cavs sorely lack every time that kid from Akron jumps ship the past 2 decades.

As far as your conclusion, i come to the complete opposite conclusion. Put Maxi at 5, PJ at 4, Hardaway or a decent shooter at 3 with Luka and Kai.

All night you saw the Celtics with 2 or 3 guys sinking in the paint bc none of the Mavs 5s shoot, an awful archetype for today's NBA, cough Allen. You see DJJ being left like teams do Okoro and PJ is streaky.

Maxi can't guard Zinger. Tatum can shoot over PJ. Hardaway can't guard Brown. Kyrie can't guard any of those starters. Maybe Luka can stick with White. Also, the rebounding advantage the Celtics would enjoy against that lineup would be double digit. You'd be looking at 30 point blowouts.

[JujitsuFlip]

I mean the Celtics are the best team in the NBA for a reason (even with that Tatum and Brown are adequate, not good defenders). The Mavericks don't have 5 guys who can shoot and defend.

My point is that unless the Cavs are getting Ingram back in an Allen trade, and Ingram needs to be open to a sub-max deal, they shouldn't trade Allen. Someone needs to be able to guard Tatum and someone needs to be able to guard Porzingis. You're going to have to out rebound them (which is how we won Game 2) because you can't trade possessions. It wouldn't surprise me if we see Gafford and Lively on the floor together before this series is over.

They may just be passable but they have the size and speed needed on the wing that the Cavs sorely lack every time that kid from Akron jumps ship the past 2 decades.

As far as your conclusion, i come to the complete opposite conclusion. Put Maxi at 5, PJ at 4, Hardaway or a decent shooter at 3 with Luka and Kai.

All night you saw the Celtics with 2 or 3 guys sinking in the paint bc none of the Mavs 5s shoot, an awful archetype for today's NBA, cough Allen. You see DJJ being left like teams do Okoro and PJ is streaky.

Maxi can't guard Zinger. Tatum can shoot over PJ. Hardaway can't guard Brown. Kyrie can't guard any of those starters. Maybe Luka can stick with White. Also, the rebounding advantage the Celtics would enjoy against that lineup would be double digit. You'd be looking at 30 point blowouts.

News flash, no one can guard KP; he shot over the top of everyone last night.

Lively and Gafford can't guard Tatum either, are you kidding me lol

Gonna go from 18 point blowouts to 30? Sorry, i don't buy it. The Mavs offense is stalled bc the paint is clogged, something you as a Cavs fan should feel deja vu watching, given the Cavs struggles the past 3 post seasons.

[JonFromVA]

I mean the Celtics are the best team in the NBA for a reason (even with that Tatum and Brown are adequate, not good defenders). The Mavericks don't have 5 guys who can shoot and defend.

My point is that unless the Cavs are getting Ingram back in an Allen trade, and Ingram needs to be open to a sub-max deal, they shouldn't trade Allen. Someone needs to be able to guard Tatum and someone needs to be able to guard Porzingis. You're going to have to out rebound them (which is how we won Game 2) because you can't trade possessions. It wouldn't surprise me if we see Gafford and Lively on the floor together before this series is over.

They may just be passable but they have the size and speed needed on the wing that the Cavs sorely lack every time that kid from Akron jumps ship the past 2 decades.

As far as your conclusion, i come to the complete opposite conclusion. Put Maxi at 5, PJ at 4, Hardaway or a decent shooter at 3 with Luka and Kai.

All night you saw the Celtics with 2 or 3 guys sinking in the paint bc none of the Mavs 5s shoot, an awful archetype for today's NBA, cough Allen. You see DJJ being left like teams do Okoro and PJ is streaky.

Maxi can't guard Zinger. Tatum can shoot over PJ. Hardaway can't guard Brown. Kyrie can't guard any of those starters. Maybe Luka can stick with White. Also, the rebounding advantage the Celtics would enjoy against that lineup would be double digit. You'd be looking at 30 point blowouts.

Classic trade off that JBB wasn't willing to make unless forced in to it by injuries.

Yeah, you can't matchup with length when you go small, but you might just open up your offense.

Even with all our injuries, the Celtics didn't hold us to 89 points. KP is good, but by the numbers, he's nowhere near that good.

[jbk1234]

Interesting read

https://airalamo.com/posts/question-nobody-asking-about-san-antonio-spurs-long-term-plan

[ijspeelman]

Interesting read

https://airalamo.com/posts/question-nobody-asking-about-san-antonio-spurs-long-term-plan

I do wonder if any of the Spurs wings are cheaper than we think to trade for. If the FO is eyeing Ingram (I hope they aren't), Vassell may be a cheaper, younger version and Keldon Johnson is a repeat season of 2021-22 from being a great wing role player (however, his last two seasons have not been that).