Stillwater's monster draft thread (consolidated)

[JonFromVA]

If all they want to do is get out of his contract...then they never would have gave him that contract. makes no sense to trade him for expirings and a young player who looks to get paid next summer to get a meh late lottery pick.
Sure if a tier 2 prospect was sitting there at 10 they are high on and they suddenly get hate from Loves camp and that he wants out, Otherwise no chance this gets done. I could see the Cavs shopping him next summer if they draft ZIon aside from that I think he retires a Cav

Oh, it's not hard to justify paying Kevin all that money. Part of it was that we had to pay someone, part of it was retaining him as an asset to either play or trade, and part of it may have been thumbing our nose at the world that thinks we can't have nice things.

The thing is, there was an understanding before he got hurt that the Cavs were going to try to win games, not tank to prevent our pick from going to Atlanta. So, since then, things have changed. A number of vets have already been traded and Channing retired. If Kevin wants to move on, I'm sure we'll accommodate him for a reasonable deal.

And the proposed deal may not be the best we could do, but it's not unreasonable.

Love has not publicly indicated anything short of full committment to the Cavs going foward to my knowledge esp considering it was his injury that shifted the gears to tank mode/ development mode.
He could get moved at the deadline durring the season if that tone changes esp if they draft a scrub like reddish and expect to win because of it... I have faith in this org not being stupid in the draft process going forward and they will do as much as they can to continue to add assets by taking on bad contracts etc. Moving Love makes no sense as long as he contributes to winning

Alas, I have no faith in the organization not being stupid in the draft process. I'm just hoping they catch some luck, other than that; I'm not sure we're actually disagreeing about anything .... just considering possibilities. If there's a crux to all this, it remains the pick we owe the Hawks. If the team plays well, Gilbert probably won't sabotage it; but I doubt he adds pieces for the purposes of winning more games. If Kevin isn't on-board with that, I'd expect him to remain as professional as he's always been and keep it quiet for as long as feels he doesn't need to force the issue.

[Stillwater]

So decided to throw up another mock before the lottery next week
This one has the Cavs getting the 17th from BKN absorbing Crabbe's deal dumping Smith.
It also has the Cavs winning the lottery(which they will ) along with some other teams moving spots
such as Boston for AD ATL trading into the the late first etc.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/579252/

[Stillwater]

In the unlikely scenario the Cavs and all other top 4 teams get bounced from the top 4 I have the Cavs taking Kevin Porter Jr. who despite some off court issues, is a hard nosed high motor and highly athletic/skilled wing that fits the Cavs M.O.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/579443/

[Stillwater]

Hypotheticals; So lets say after getting Zion the Cavs and Nets agree to trade Smith & 26 to BKN for Crabbe 17 & 31
who are their top targets of realistic options available pick best duo
( first player listed is at 17 2nd at 31)

[Revenged25]

Let's go with Keldon Johnson and Cameron Johnson. Sure we are doubling up at the SG/SF positions but I think with Zion/Love/Nance/Zizic all of our minutes for Bigs is taken care of. Getting more wing players would help out when people start going to the bench and possible push some to higher levels to try and keep their starting spots.

[Stillwater]

Let's go with Keldon Johnson and Cameron Johnson. Sure we are doubling up at the SG/SF positions but I think with Zion/Love/Nance/Zizic all of our minutes for Bigs is taken care of. Getting more wing players would help out when people start going to the bench and possible push some to higher levels to try and keep their starting spots.

there is little chance they dont move some bigs if they get Zion but if they go off guard and sf swing,
i have alot more confidence in Herros game becoming advanced as a solid fit over either johnson esp keldon who is a terrible creator and needs a true pg which we dont have or get taking Zion. Okeke at 31 could prove to be the steal of the draft because of his injury but well worth the non guaranteed investment and can play 3 or 4
and defend 1-4.

[JonFromVA]

I miss DraftExpress ... without their content in the public, I don't even know who most of these prospects are; but I don't watch much NCAA either.

[Stillwater]

I miss DraftExpress ... without their content in the public, I don't even know who most of these prospects are; but I don't watch much NCAA either.

This isn't bad for lottery prospects: http://www.redteamscouting.com/draft-guide-2019

Ringer isn't great but has a few more reviews: https://nbadraft.theringer.com/?_ga=2.95321244.1494815130.1557523403-1999043118.1557523403

[Stillwater]

2 days from now we will get the #1 so I am putting up yet another mock under that assumption:
Here the Cavs settle for the non guaranteed 31st from BKN along with a future protected 1st to eat Crabbes 1 yr deal sending Smith.
Cavs get the legit #1 prospect, a pure shooter with upside, and a rim running shot blocker.
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/582196/
If the Cavs don't get Zion I will assume unless they go Sekou they go RJ,Ja,Porter,Garland or Culver and would be looking at Okeke Grant Williams or Schofield as potential targets at 26.
* If Herro is gone and Nowell is there with Zion taken early I would seriously look at Jalen Nowell who is much better than his predraft ranking on most boards.

[Slava]

Read on Twitter

[Stillwater]

Good coach, not sure what this means for the direction of the team though. I'm guessing it indicates they are not buying into a full rebuild and expect to utilize an efficient outside shooting attack and the spread defense to create driving lanes. The hire indicates to me they will be emphasizing getting rid of non shooters and filling the roster with capable one's though soi it's certainly possible they try to do that through the draft the next 2 years.
I do think if somehow they land Zion given this hire... Zion will be the main ball handler at the top of the key surrounded by shooters.

[JonFromVA]

Good coach, not sure what this means for the direction of the team though. I'm guessing it indicates they are not buying into a full rebuild and expect to utilize an efficient outside shooting attack and the spread defense to create driving lanes. The hire indicates to me they will be emphasizing getting rid of non shooters and filling the roster with capable one's though soi it's certainly possible they try to do that through the draft the next 2 years.
I do think if somehow they land Zion given this hire... Zion will be the main ball handler at the top of the key surrounded by shooters.

Sounds like you meant full tank, because a rebuild is supposed to be about installing successful systems and putting your players in the best position to grow, learn, and improve within a sound structure.

Also it would be pretty radical in this day and age to not try to put 4 shooters on the floor at all times.

Plus we could refocus our talent evaluation from finding that once in a generation player that can lead us in to contention to identifying players who have the makeup to grow and truly improve the team. If we can identify those players, they can be found anywhere in the draft - not just in the first 3 picks - as well as in free-agency or picked up off the scrap heap of other teams.

If they win 40+ games with the talent on the team? We should be happy. We're doing something amazing.

[jbk1234]

I would really like to know what the short, and medium-term plans for the Cavs as an organization are.

[Stillwater]

Good coach, not sure what this means for the direction of the team though. I'm guessing it indicates they are not buying into a full rebuild and expect to utilize an efficient outside shooting attack and the spread defense to create driving lanes. The hire indicates to me they will be emphasizing getting rid of non shooters and filling the roster with capable one's though soi it's certainly possible they try to do that through the draft the next 2 years.
I do think if somehow they land Zion given this hire... Zion will be the main ball handler at the top of the key surrounded by shooters.

Sounds like you meant full tank, because a rebuild is supposed to be about installing successful systems and putting your players in the best position to grow, learn, and improve within a sound structure.

Also it would be pretty radical in this day and age to not try to put 4 shooters on the floor at all times.

Plus we could refocus our talent evaluation from finding that once in a generation player that can lead us in to contention to identifying players who have the makeup to grow and truly improve the team. If we can identify those players, they can be found anywhere in the draft - not just in the first 3 picks - as well as in free-agency or picked up off the scrap heap of other teams.

If they win 40+ games with the talent on the team? We should be happy. We're doing something amazing.

I meant not buying into a full rebuild which could require years of tanking...with out trades.
The Cavs don't have 4 "good" shooters to put on the court together right now and still have the same system coming off the bench...
My point is they have to overhaul the roster for this Coaches system to work well asap which means
no more TT, No more Zizic, and to some extent no more Osman, no more Nwaba, no more Henson.

I think there will be significant moves made or attempted by altman this summer at this point unless they are down with 1 more year of full tank because "as is" there is minimal chance this roster as constructed can play in Beileins system and win games.
I mean you are rolling out 4 guards and Love as is.

[JonFromVA]

Good coach, not sure what this means for the direction of the team though. I'm guessing it indicates they are not buying into a full rebuild and expect to utilize an efficient outside shooting attack and the spread defense to create driving lanes. The hire indicates to me they will be emphasizing getting rid of non shooters and filling the roster with capable one's though soi it's certainly possible they try to do that through the draft the next 2 years.
I do think if somehow they land Zion given this hire... Zion will be the main ball handler at the top of the key surrounded by shooters.

Sounds like you meant full tank, because a rebuild is supposed to be about installing successful systems and putting your players in the best position to grow, learn, and improve within a sound structure.

Also it would be pretty radical in this day and age to not try to put 4 shooters on the floor at all times.

Plus we could refocus our talent evaluation from finding that once in a generation player that can lead us in to contention to identifying players who have the makeup to grow and truly improve the team. If we can identify those players, they can be found anywhere in the draft - not just in the first 3 picks - as well as in free-agency or picked up off the scrap heap of other teams.

If they win 40+ games with the talent on the team? We should be happy. We're doing something amazing.

I meant not buying into a full rebuild which could require years of tanking...with out trades.
The Cavs don't have 4 "good" shooters to put on the court together right now and still have the same system coming off the bench...
My point is they have to overhaul the roster for this Coaches system to work well asap which means
no more TT, No more Zizic, and to some extent no more Osman, no more Nwaba, no more Henson.

I think there will be significant moves made or attempted by altman this summer at this point unless they are down with 1 more year of full tank because "as is" there is minimal chance this roster as constructed can play in Beileins system and win games.
I mean you are rolling out 4 guards and Love as is.

I think you're jumping the gun. From what people are saying, Beilein is not a typical college system coach who has to have everything his way. Looking over Michigan's roster, 3 of their starters only shot 30% from 3pt including their 7ft center. The Cavs shot the 3 better as a team than Michigan did from the shorter college line.

Plus ... if our offense was actually generating good shots in flow, we should expect our 3pt% to improve.

But the biggest difference IMO is the difference between Michigan's 3pt% and their opponents and our 3pt% .vs. our opponents. They didn't shoot it very well, but they made their opponents shoot it much worse; whereas we gave our opponents whatever they wanted. Apparently he has an assistant who was instrumental in Michigan's defense. Hopefully we can sign him too, but he may be up for the Michigan job.

Either way, we'll see? He might want to see what he can do with what we've got before dismantling it (not that we have much to dismantle as most of the roster will expire next year).

But hey, if our player evaluation was actually solid, I've got no problem with trading every player on the team. Nothing says we have to build around players who can't defend and can't shoot if we can somehow trade them for players who can.

[Stillwater]

Sounds like you meant full tank, because a rebuild is supposed to be about installing successful systems and putting your players in the best position to grow, learn, and improve within a sound structure.

Also it would be pretty radical in this day and age to not try to put 4 shooters on the floor at all times.

Plus we could refocus our talent evaluation from finding that once in a generation player that can lead us in to contention to identifying players who have the makeup to grow and truly improve the team. If we can identify those players, they can be found anywhere in the draft - not just in the first 3 picks - as well as in free-agency or picked up off the scrap heap of other teams.

If they win 40+ games with the talent on the team? We should be happy. We're doing something amazing.

I meant not buying into a full rebuild which could require years of tanking...with out trades.
The Cavs don't have 4 "good" shooters to put on the court together right now and still have the same system coming off the bench...
My point is they have to overhaul the roster for this Coaches system to work well asap which means
no more TT, No more Zizic, and to some extent no more Osman, no more Nwaba, no more Henson.

I think there will be significant moves made or attempted by altman this summer at this point unless they are down with 1 more year of full tank because "as is" there is minimal chance this roster as constructed can play in Beileins system and win games.
I mean you are rolling out 4 guards and Love as is.

I think you're jumping the gun. From what people are saying, Beilein is not a typical college system coach who has to have everything his way. Looking over Michigan's roster, 3 of their starters only shot 30% from 3pt including their 7ft center. The Cavs shot the 3 better as a team than Michigan did from the shorter college line.

Plus ... if our offense was actually generating good shots in flow, we should expect our 3pt% to improve.

But the biggest difference IMO is the difference between Michigan's 3pt% and their opponents and our 3pt% .vs. our opponents. They didn't shoot it very well, but they made their opponents shoot it much worse; whereas we gave our opponents whatever they wanted. Apparently he has an assistant who was instrumental in Michigan's defense. Hopefully we can sign him too, but he may be up for the Michigan job.

Either way, we'll see? He might want to see what he can do with what we've got before dismantling it (not that we have much to dismantle as most of the roster will expire next year).

But hey, if our player evaluation was actually solid, I've got no problem with trading every player on the team. Nothing says we have to build around players who can't defend and can't shoot if we can somehow trade them for players who can.

I honestly think this guy was brought in on the hopes of drafting Zion... then surrounding him with shooters.

Then it makes perfect sense and not entirely out of the question, but why hire him days before the lottery drawing not knowing where you will pick. they could have based the hire on what the game plan was if they don't get Zion.

IDK but right now I have no idea what they are planning, other than knowing we have a nice core but some of them don't fit this mans typical schemes at all. So I am lead to think they irrationally beleive Osman will be a 40% 3 point shooter after a full offseason, and Zizic will be a knock down shooter by 2020. Or they are not in the plans at all. Worse case is they think Beilein can adapt his philospohy to fit what he has to work with instead of trying to mold players he's recruited to fit his system.


I will give it a 1/2 season before I start lobbying for a change if they keep the same roster or he doesn't make good by improvisation.

[ToneLocc]

I’m eager to see if the “culture-driving” sticks. Right now the Cavs do not have a culture, maybe besides losing LeBron. With LBJ still looming over the organization, I think it is paramount to create an identity for ourselves.

I was starting to buy into the Jordi Fernandez potential hire. I’d love to see him get a shot as our Associate HC. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe he is the 3rd Assistant in Denver? It’d be a promotion for him in a familiar situation. Also dig the contrast in ages between Beilein and Fernandez, though I’m not concerned about Beilein being an old rookie.

[JonFromVA]

I meant not buying into a full rebuild which could require years of tanking...with out trades.
The Cavs don't have 4 "good" shooters to put on the court together right now and still have the same system coming off the bench...
My point is they have to overhaul the roster for this Coaches system to work well asap which means
no more TT, No more Zizic, and to some extent no more Osman, no more Nwaba, no more Henson.

I think there will be significant moves made or attempted by altman this summer at this point unless they are down with 1 more year of full tank because "as is" there is minimal chance this roster as constructed can play in Beileins system and win games.
I mean you are rolling out 4 guards and Love as is.

I think you're jumping the gun. From what people are saying, Beilein is not a typical college system coach who has to have everything his way. Looking over Michigan's roster, 3 of their starters only shot 30% from 3pt including their 7ft center. The Cavs shot the 3 better as a team than Michigan did from the shorter college line.

Plus ... if our offense was actually generating good shots in flow, we should expect our 3pt% to improve.

But the biggest difference IMO is the difference between Michigan's 3pt% and their opponents and our 3pt% .vs. our opponents. They didn't shoot it very well, but they made their opponents shoot it much worse; whereas we gave our opponents whatever they wanted. Apparently he has an assistant who was instrumental in Michigan's defense. Hopefully we can sign him too, but he may be up for the Michigan job.

Either way, we'll see? He might want to see what he can do with what we've got before dismantling it (not that we have much to dismantle as most of the roster will expire next year).

But hey, if our player evaluation was actually solid, I've got no problem with trading every player on the team. Nothing says we have to build around players who can't defend and can't shoot if we can somehow trade them for players who can.

I honestly think this guy was brought in on the hopes of drafting Zion... then surrounding him with shooters.

Then it makes perfect sense and not entirely out of the question, but why hire him days before the lottery drawing not knowing where you will pick. they could have based the hire on what the game plan was if they don't get Zion.

IDK but right now I have no idea what they are planning, other than knowing we have a nice core but some of them don't fit this mans typical schemes at all. So I am lead to think they irrationally beleive Osman will be a 40% 3 point shooter after a full offseason, and Zizic will be a knock down shooter by 2020. Or they are not in the plans at all. Worse case is they think Beilein can adapt his philospohy to fit what he has to work with instead of trying to mold players he's recruited to fit his system.

I will give it a 1/2 season before I start lobbying for a change if they keep the same roster or he doesn't make good by improvisation.

half season? Such patience! lol..

I think Dan doesn't want to be held hostage to our lottery luck. I suspect he valued finding a coach who wanted to join the team even though we only had a 14% shot of getting the #1 pick.

A coach who even if we get Zion won't be afraid to tell him: "Hey kid, nice dunk, but it's only 2 points ... if you want to win, get back on D!"

Certainly we can all hope that Cedi develops as a player and a shooter and putting the right people around him to help him is important; but a successful plan doesn't rely on everything working out just so. Even if we don't think Cedi should be in our long-term plans, increasing his value in the short-term will improve our team when we shop him around the league.

It's just the start of a rebuild. Nobody knows how long it's actually going to take; but the most important thing is bringing in people who can teach and improve talent and can identify talent.

Beilein has the potential to help the Cavs out in both those areas, as well as the big picture stuff like establishing a culture and building a sustaining organization.

Obviously there are no guarantees, and maybe Beilein will hate every minute of coaching at the pro levels and struggle to cope, but 6 months would still be extremely quick to pull the plug. Even Blatt got a year and a half.

[JonFromVA]

I’m eager to see if the “culture-driving” sticks. Right now the Cavs do not have a culture, maybe besides losing LeBron. With LBJ still looming over the organization, I think it is paramount to create an identity for ourselves.

I was starting to buy into the Jordi Fernandez potential hire. I’d love to see him get a shot as our Associate HC. Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe he is the 3rd Assistant in Denver? It’d be a promotion for him in a familiar situation. Also dig the contrast in ages between Beilein and Fernandez, though I’m not concerned about Beilein being an old rookie.

Bickerstaff Jr is a name being thrown around because he's not currently with a team, has head coaching experience, and his Dad is a consultant with the organization. I'm not sure about the rules for pilfering assistants, I guess we can for a promotion?

There likely will be competition for these guys, though.

I would think Beilein would want to bring in some of his own guys.

[Stillwater]

I think you're jumping the gun. From what people are saying, Beilein is not a typical college system coach who has to have everything his way. Looking over Michigan's roster, 3 of their starters only shot 30% from 3pt including their 7ft center. The Cavs shot the 3 better as a team than Michigan did from the shorter college line.

Plus ... if our offense was actually generating good shots in flow, we should expect our 3pt% to improve.

But the biggest difference IMO is the difference between Michigan's 3pt% and their opponents and our 3pt% .vs. our opponents. They didn't shoot it very well, but they made their opponents shoot it much worse; whereas we gave our opponents whatever they wanted. Apparently he has an assistant who was instrumental in Michigan's defense. Hopefully we can sign him too, but he may be up for the Michigan job.

Either way, we'll see? He might want to see what he can do with what we've got before dismantling it (not that we have much to dismantle as most of the roster will expire next year).

But hey, if our player evaluation was actually solid, I've got no problem with trading every player on the team. Nothing says we have to build around players who can't defend and can't shoot if we can somehow trade them for players who can.

I honestly think this guy was brought in on the hopes of drafting Zion... then surrounding him with shooters.

Then it makes perfect sense and not entirely out of the question, but why hire him days before the lottery drawing not knowing where you will pick. they could have based the hire on what the game plan was if they don't get Zion.

IDK but right now I have no idea what they are planning, other than knowing we have a nice core but some of them don't fit this mans typical schemes at all. So I am lead to think they irrationally beleive Osman will be a 40% 3 point shooter after a full offseason, and Zizic will be a knock down shooter by 2020. Or they are not in the plans at all. Worse case is they think Beilein can adapt his philospohy to fit what he has to work with instead of trying to mold players he's recruited to fit his system.

I will give it a 1/2 season before I start lobbying for a change if they keep the same roster or he doesn't make good by improvisation.

half season? Such patience! lol..

I think Dan doesn't want to be held hostage to our lottery luck. I suspect he valued finding a coach who wanted to join the team even though we only had a 14% shot of getting the #1 pick.

A coach who even if we get Zion won't be afraid to tell him: "Hey kid, nice dunk, but it's only 2 points ... if you want to win, get back on D!"

Certainly we can all hope that Cedi develops as a player and a shooter and putting the right people around him to help him is important; but a successful plan doesn't rely on everything working out just so. Even if we don't think Cedi should be in our long-term plans, increasing his value in the short-term will improve our team when we shop him around the league.

It's just the start of a rebuild. Nobody knows how long it's actually going to take; but the most important thing is bringing in people who can teach and improve talent and can identify talent.

Beilein has the potential to help the Cavs out in both those areas, as well as the big picture stuff like establishing a culture and building a sustaining organization.

Obviously there are no guarantees, and maybe Beilein will hate every minute of coaching at the pro levels and struggle to cope, but 6 months would still be extremely quick to pull the plug. Even Blatt got a year and a half.

Didn't watch much Duke this season? He was one of the best of the best on defense in the country man, no coach will have to tell him much of anything.
As far as Osman, in Beilein's system ( assuming it was why he was hired) Cedi will have to take and make 3's or be the defacto main ball handler in the 2nd unit. If he is taking the shots but continues to struggle his stock will only plummet.
If it's really just the start of a rebuild I assume then this HC is just a face on the sideline with the knowledge to give the ownership group a rock solid assessment based on Cavs film study from last season of what he thinks they need going forward such as who they should target in the draft via trades etc. But whomever is brought in as the Assistant will be the player development guru.
I agree he can help establish a culture, but he was the coach of a name I care not to utter... other than followed by curses