Trade Ideas

[JujitsuFlip]

Wiggins might be available, do we have any way to obtain him?

[jbk1234]

Wiggins might be available, do we have any way to obtain him?

If Wiggins is available, it's because the Warriors have concluded he's coasting again after getting paid.

[JujitsuFlip]

Wiggins might be available, do we have any way to obtain him?

If Wiggins is available, it's because the Warriors have concluded he's coasting again after getting paid.

Even a coasting Wiggs probably has a role on the Cavs, especially if they move off Mitchell this summer.

Garland/Strus/Wiggy wit it/one of Mobley or Allen + a stretch big, boom easy 2nd round apperance (with a different head coach, of course).

[toooskies]

Wiggins might be available, do we have any way to obtain him?

If Wiggins is available, it's because the Warriors have concluded he's coasting again after getting paid.

Even a coasting Wiggs probably has a role on the Cavs, especially if they move off Mitchell this summer.

Garland/Strus/Wiggy wit it/one of Mobley or Allen + a stretch big, boom easy 2nd round apperance (with a different head coach, of course).

Looks like a clear first round out to me. No one in that lineup is a top 10 player in the league next year.

[JujitsuFlip]

If Wiggins is available, it's because the Warriors have concluded he's coasting again after getting paid.

Even a coasting Wiggs probably has a role on the Cavs, especially if they move off Mitchell this summer.

Garland/Strus/Wiggy wit it/one of Mobley or Allen + a stretch big, boom easy 2nd round apperance (with a different head coach, of course).

Looks like a clear first round out to me. No one in that lineup is a top 10 player in the league next year.

How is that any different than the past 2 seasons or the current one? lmao

Cavs currently have no top 10 players on their roster either.

What an odd rebuttal, toooskies.

[ijspeelman]

Even a coasting Wiggs probably has a role on the Cavs, especially if they move off Mitchell this summer.

Garland/Strus/Wiggy wit it/one of Mobley or Allen + a stretch big, boom easy 2nd round apperance (with a different head coach, of course).

Looks like a clear first round out to me. No one in that lineup is a top 10 player in the league next year.

How is that any different than the past 2 seasons or the current one? lmao

Cavs currently have no top 10 players on their roster either.

What an odd rebuttal, toooskies.

Donovan Mitchell is debatably top 10.

Cavs peak is higher with Mitchell though I cannot speak for the differences in their mean performance

[toooskies]

Even a coasting Wiggs probably has a role on the Cavs, especially if they move off Mitchell this summer.

Garland/Strus/Wiggy wit it/one of Mobley or Allen + a stretch big, boom easy 2nd round apperance (with a different head coach, of course).

Looks like a clear first round out to me. No one in that lineup is a top 10 player in the league next year.

How is that any different than the past 2 seasons or the current one? lmao

Cavs currently have no top 10 players on their roster either.

What an odd rebuttal, toooskies.

Mitchell was 2nd team all-NBA, which is close enough that all he needs is to get hot in the playoffs to reach that level.

But I was rebutting your easy 2nd round appearance line. The only way that team makes sense is if you're confident in Garland and Mobley (or Allen) going forward, and this season really hasn't inspired any kind of confidence to me in those two being foundational talents.

[JujitsuFlip]

Looks like a clear first round out to me. No one in that lineup is a top 10 player in the league next year.

How is that any different than the past 2 seasons or the current one? lmao

Cavs currently have no top 10 players on their roster either.

What an odd rebuttal, toooskies.

Donovan Mitchell is debatably top 10.

Cavs peak is higher with Mitchell though I cannot speak for the differences in their mean performance

Peak regular season, maybe.

Without looking at BBR, I have these guys clearly above Mitch

1. Jokic
2. Embiid
3. KD
4. LeBron
5. Giannis
6. Tatum
7. Steph
8. SGA
9. AD
10. Luka

I have these next guys as arguably above Don

11. James Butler
12. Brown
13. Haliburton
14. Kawhi

This last set of guys, I'd say it's a coin flip

15. Ja
16. Booker
17. Dame
18. Ant
19. Sabonis

[JujitsuFlip]

Looks like a clear first round out to me. No one in that lineup is a top 10 player in the league next year.

How is that any different than the past 2 seasons or the current one? lmao

Cavs currently have no top 10 players on their roster either.

What an odd rebuttal, toooskies.

Mitchell was 2nd team all-NBA, which is close enough that all he needs is to get hot in the playoffs to reach that level.

But I was rebutting your easy 2nd round appearance line. The only way that team makes sense is if you're confident in Garland and Mobley (or Allen) going forward, and this season really hasn't inspired any kind of confidence to me in those two being foundational talents.

Of course I'm confident in Garland and Mobley they're 23 and 22 lol

Mitchell has never had a good playoff series outside of 2 covid restriction seasons, so good luck with that.

[toooskies]

How is that any different than the past 2 seasons or the current one? lmao

Cavs currently have no top 10 players on their roster either.

What an odd rebuttal, toooskies.

Donovan Mitchell is debatably top 10.

Cavs peak is higher with Mitchell though I cannot speak for the differences in their mean performance

Peak regular season, maybe.

Without looking at BBR, I have these guys clearly above Mitch

1. Jokic
2. Embiid
3. KD
4. LeBron
5. Giannis
6. Tatum
7. Steph
8. SGA
9. AD
10. Luka

I have these next guys as arguably above Don

11. James Butler
12. Brown
13. Haliburton
14. Kawhi

This last set of guys, I'd say it's a coin flip

15. Ja
16. Booker
17. Dame
18. Ant
19. Sabonis

This still puts Mitchell as possibly the best player in a series in the East, especially if a guy like Haliburton can be "solved" in a 7-game series. (And playoff Embiid is definitely not #2.)

[Iwasawitness]

Looks like a clear first round out to me. No one in that lineup is a top 10 player in the league next year.

How is that any different than the past 2 seasons or the current one? lmao

Cavs currently have no top 10 players on their roster either.

What an odd rebuttal, toooskies.

Mitchell was 2nd team all-NBA, which is close enough that all he needs is to get hot in the playoffs to reach that level.

But I was rebutting your easy 2nd round appearance line. The only way that team makes sense is if you're confident in Garland and Mobley (or Allen) going forward, and this season really hasn't inspired any kind of confidence to me in those two being foundational talents.

I don’t get how any cavaliers fan could not have confidence in Mobley at this point.

Before his injury, he was averaging 16/10 with elite all team worthy defense… and he’s Cleveland’s third option on offense. That’s really great stuff and he’s doing that at 22 years of age. His free throw shooting improved, his decision making on offense got better, and he showed he could play a physical style of basketball. Oh and it helps that he doesn’t look like an amateur whenever he dribbles the ball.

It’s just like with the Wemby thread: I don’t know what people are expecting (although in this case it’s more like I don’t know what people are watching). I’ve just never seen a player be more incorrectly evaluated than Mobley. It’s baffling.

[JujitsuFlip]

Donovan Mitchell is debatably top 10.

Cavs peak is higher with Mitchell though I cannot speak for the differences in their mean performance

Peak regular season, maybe.

Without looking at BBR, I have these guys clearly above Mitch

1. Jokic
2. Embiid
3. KD
4. LeBron
5. Giannis
6. Tatum
7. Steph
8. SGA
9. AD
10. Luka

I have these next guys as arguably above Don

11. James Butler
12. Brown
13. Haliburton
14. Kawhi

This last set of guys, I'd say it's a coin flip

15. Ja
16. Booker
17. Dame
18. Ant
19. Sabonis

This still puts Mitchell as possibly the best player in a series in the East, especially if a guy like Haliburton can be "solved" in a 7-game series. (And playoff Embiid is definitely not #2.)

Mitchell has been "solved" in every post season that wasn't in a bubble or an arena with limited capacity, so...

Also, the Cavs had the most talented player in the Knicks series last season and we see how that turned out.

Well, All-NBA is a regular season award and that's not my 1-19 rank, i was just listing off guys.

However, if we're talking about playoffs, Mitchell is 100% not a top 10 player lol guy does a great Houdini impression with his efficiency.

In the playoffs last season, Mitchell was 38th in eFG% of Eastern Conference players who played 10+ minutes.

In the playoffs last season, Mitchell was also 38th in TS% of Eastern Conference players.

In the playoffs last season, Mitchell was 36th in AST/TO of Eastern Conference players who played 10+ minutes.

[toooskies]

How is that any different than the past 2 seasons or the current one? lmao

Cavs currently have no top 10 players on their roster either.

What an odd rebuttal, toooskies.

Mitchell was 2nd team all-NBA, which is close enough that all he needs is to get hot in the playoffs to reach that level.

But I was rebutting your easy 2nd round appearance line. The only way that team makes sense is if you're confident in Garland and Mobley (or Allen) going forward, and this season really hasn't inspired any kind of confidence to me in those two being foundational talents.

I don’t get how any cavaliers fan could not have confidence in Mobley at this point.

Before his injury, he was averaging 16/10 with elite all team worthy defense… and he’s Cleveland’s third option on offense. That’s really great stuff and he’s doing that at 22 years of age. His free throw shooting improved, his decision making on offense got better, and he showed he could play a physical style of basketball. Oh and it helps that he doesn’t look like an amateur whenever he dribbles the ball.

It’s just like with the Wemby thread: I don’t know what people are expecting (although in this case it’s more like I don’t know what people are watching). I’ve just never seen a player be more incorrectly evaluated than Mobley. It’s baffling.

The hope for Mobley was that he'd develop a jump shot given how much of a green light he was given to take it.

You'd expect offensive progress which he hasn't shown. His shooting has been regressing since high school and his mechanics are still inconsistent. His main efficiency improvement is simply not taking threes.

If Mobley tops out as a DPOY with third-option offense, that's great but not carrying you very far. You pretty much need Garland to reach a Nash-like apex to compete in the playoffs and make up for his size. And that looks unlikely.

Mitchell is the closest thing this team has to being an MVP candidate, now and going forward.

[ijspeelman]

How is that any different than the past 2 seasons or the current one? lmao

Cavs currently have no top 10 players on their roster either.

What an odd rebuttal, toooskies.

Mitchell was 2nd team all-NBA, which is close enough that all he needs is to get hot in the playoffs to reach that level.

But I was rebutting your easy 2nd round appearance line. The only way that team makes sense is if you're confident in Garland and Mobley (or Allen) going forward, and this season really hasn't inspired any kind of confidence to me in those two being foundational talents.

I don’t get how any cavaliers fan could not have confidence in Mobley at this point.

Before his injury, he was averaging 16/10 with elite all team worthy defense… and he’s Cleveland’s third option on offense. That’s really great stuff and he’s doing that at 22 years of age. His free throw shooting improved, his decision making on offense got better, and he showed he could play a physical style of basketball. Oh and it helps that he doesn’t look like an amateur whenever he dribbles the ball.

It’s just like with the Wemby thread: I don’t know what people are expecting (although in this case it’s more like I don’t know what people are watching). I’ve just never seen a player be more incorrectly evaluated than Mobley. It’s baffling.

As someone who is high on Mobley, there are valid reasons to have doubt about his offense, especially in a playoff series

The worrying thing to most is his jump shooting. I don’t think he needs to be a knock down 3pt threat here (or even 32-35%), but his middie has been inconsistent and could really be used to unlock some extra off-ball stuff and self-generation opportunities. His splits for all distances are down, but 10-16 ft which are still below where you want from a player shooting those

The problem is in a play-off series he’s going to be off-ball or be tasked with being a hub of offense in the high post (not the worst thing). Any self-generation opportunity in the post is going to be met with a double team or players sinking in which I don’t think Mobley has proven to make elite reads, but has been a good and capable passer.

Basically, I haven’t seen improvement in aspects that will help our team right now. Scoring wise, he’s good when he has a lane, he’s a great lob threat, and he can hit his post hook over players around his height or shorter consistently.

His development isn’t over so all of this isn’t the end all be all, but right now his offensive development has been disappointing.

If this is what Mobley is and there isn’t development, he’s still a near all-star player with his defense and what he currently brings on offense.

[toooskies]

Peak regular season, maybe.

Without looking at BBR, I have these guys clearly above Mitch

1. Jokic
2. Embiid
3. KD
4. LeBron
5. Giannis
6. Tatum
7. Steph
8. SGA
9. AD
10. Luka

I have these next guys as arguably above Don

11. James Butler
12. Brown
13. Haliburton
14. Kawhi

This last set of guys, I'd say it's a coin flip

15. Ja
16. Booker
17. Dame
18. Ant
19. Sabonis

This still puts Mitchell as possibly the best player in a series in the East, especially if a guy like Haliburton can be "solved" in a 7-game series. (And playoff Embiid is definitely not #2.)

Mitchell has been "solved" in every post season that wasn't in a bubble or an arena with limited capacity, so...

Also, the Cavs had the most talented player in the Knicks series last season and we see how that turned out.

Well, All-NBA is a regular season award and that's not my 1-19 rank, i was just listing off guys.

However, if we're talking about playoffs, Mitchell is 100% not a top 10 player lol guy does a great Houdini impression with his efficiency.

In the playoffs last season, Mitchell was 38th in eFG% of Eastern Conference players who played 10+ minutes.

In the playoffs last season, Mitchell was also 38th in TS% of Eastern Conference players.

In the playoffs last season, Mitchell was 36th in AST/TO of Eastern Conference players who played 10+ minutes.

That's all fine. The Cavs lost for a variety of reasons last year and one of them is that shots that usually go in for Mitchell in the regular season, didn't in the postseason. Mostly in NY.

Mitchell is still in his early prime when top-tier players learn how to win in the playoffs. By most measures he is still getting better. Most players need to lose in big moments before they win in them.

I have more hope in Mitchell figuring out the playoffs than I do in Mobley figuring out his jumper.

[JujitsuFlip]

This still puts Mitchell as possibly the best player in a series in the East, especially if a guy like Haliburton can be "solved" in a 7-game series. (And playoff Embiid is definitely not #2.)

Mitchell has been "solved" in every post season that wasn't in a bubble or an arena with limited capacity, so...

Also, the Cavs had the most talented player in the Knicks series last season and we see how that turned out.

Well, All-NBA is a regular season award and that's not my 1-19 rank, i was just listing off guys.

However, if we're talking about playoffs, Mitchell is 100% not a top 10 player lol guy does a great Houdini impression with his efficiency.

In the playoffs last season, Mitchell was 38th in eFG% of Eastern Conference players who played 10+ minutes.

In the playoffs last season, Mitchell was also 38th in TS% of Eastern Conference players.

In the playoffs last season, Mitchell was 36th in AST/TO of Eastern Conference players who played 10+ minutes.

That's all fine. The Cavs lost for a variety of reasons last year and one of them is that shots that usually go in for Mitchell in the regular season, didn't in the postseason. Mostly in NY.

Mitchell is still in his early prime when top-tier players learn how to win in the playoffs. By most measures he is still getting better. Most players need to lose in big moments before they win in them.

I have more hope in Mitchell figuring out the playoffs than I do in Mobley figuring out his jumper.

To the bold, that has happened to Mitchell in 4 of his 6 post season appearances; the 2 times it didn't was thanks to covid protocols... At some point this is just who this guy is, he shrinks when it counts.

To your final sentence, Mitchell has 1 post season to do it, 2 at max. Mobley has literally 5 or 6 more seasons to figure out a jumper, let that sink in.

[toooskies]

Mitchell has been "solved" in every post season that wasn't in a bubble or an arena with limited capacity, so...

Also, the Cavs had the most talented player in the Knicks series last season and we see how that turned out.

Well, All-NBA is a regular season award and that's not my 1-19 rank, i was just listing off guys.

However, if we're talking about playoffs, Mitchell is 100% not a top 10 player lol guy does a great Houdini impression with his efficiency.

In the playoffs last season, Mitchell was 38th in eFG% of Eastern Conference players who played 10+ minutes.

In the playoffs last season, Mitchell was also 38th in TS% of Eastern Conference players.

In the playoffs last season, Mitchell was 36th in AST/TO of Eastern Conference players who played 10+ minutes.

That's all fine. The Cavs lost for a variety of reasons last year and one of them is that shots that usually go in for Mitchell in the regular season, didn't in the postseason. Mostly in NY.

Mitchell is still in his early prime when top-tier players learn how to win in the playoffs. By most measures he is still getting better. Most players need to lose in big moments before they win in them.

I have more hope in Mitchell figuring out the playoffs than I do in Mobley figuring out his jumper.

To the bold, that has happened to Mitchell in 4 of his 6 post season appearances; the 2 times it didn't was thanks to covid protocols... At some point this is just who this guy is, he shrinks when it counts.

To your final sentence, Mitchell has 1 post season to do it, 2 at max. Mobley has literally 5 or 6 more seasons to figure out a jumper, let that sink in.

Or Mitchell signs an extension on the offseason and has 5 or 6.

[JonFromVA]

Mitchell is a second tier star, sort of like a sane version of Kyrie. There are very few first tier superstars who show up game in and game out in the playoffs especially if they have to rely on their jump shot.

For instance, if Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown were those guys, Boston would already have a few championships with them. Jimmy Butler might have two.

It would also help a lot of Mitchell didn't have a hamstring, groin, or other significant injury in the playoffs this season.

Let me try to add a little more perspective. Here's a link to highest scoring playoff game by cavalier players:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/current-cavalier-player-highest-scoring-games-in-playoffs

Statmuse will show me 25 instances. One of them was Garland's 32 points .vs. the Knicks, another was LeVert's 35pts for the Nets .vs. the Raptors. The other 23 are all Mitchell including two for the Cavs.vs. the Knicks playing inspite of a groin injury.

[JujitsuFlip]

That's all fine. The Cavs lost for a variety of reasons last year and one of them is that shots that usually go in for Mitchell in the regular season, didn't in the postseason. Mostly in NY.

Mitchell is still in his early prime when top-tier players learn how to win in the playoffs. By most measures he is still getting better. Most players need to lose in big moments before they win in them.

I have more hope in Mitchell figuring out the playoffs than I do in Mobley figuring out his jumper.

To the bold, that has happened to Mitchell in 4 of his 6 post season appearances; the 2 times it didn't was thanks to covid protocols... At some point this is just who this guy is, he shrinks when it counts.

To your final sentence, Mitchell has 1 post season to do it, 2 at max. Mobley has literally 5 or 6 more seasons to figure out a jumper, let that sink in.

Or Mitchell signs an extension on the offseason and has 5 or 6.

I mean, that's not gonna happen but if it does then yay Cavs get to be a treadmill team who nevers gets outta the 1st round, woo hoo!

[JujitsuFlip]

Mitchell is a second tier star, sort of like a sane version of Kyrie. There are very few first tier superstars who show up game in and game out in the playoffs especially if they have to rely on their jump shot.

For instance, if Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown were those guys, Boston would already have a few championships with them. Jimmy Butler might have two.

It would also help a lot of Mitchell didn't have a hamstring, groin, or other significant injury in the playoffs this season.

Let me try to add a little more perspective. Here's a link to highest scoring playoff game by cavalier players:

https://www.statmuse.com/nba/ask/current-cavalier-player-highest-scoring-games-in-playoffs

Statmuse will show me 25 instances. One of them was Garland's 32 points .vs. the Knicks, another was LeVert's 35pts for the Nets .vs. the Raptors. The other 23 are all Mitchell including two for the Cavs.vs. the Knicks playing inspite of a groin injury.

And yet his efficiency was still in the toilet and he's never even been to a conference final lol

Also, idk why you feel the need to always bring up long past injuries. The guy played nearly 40 minutes every night down the stretch of the season. If it was that serious he shoulda sat out longer the first time or sat out at all the second time.