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Trade Ideas

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KuruptedCav
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#161 » by KuruptedCav » Fri Dec 31, 2021 1:55 am

PhillyFan11 wrote:Sixers fan coming in peace…

Curious to what Cavs fans would think of a trade for Tobias Harris?
Kevin Love and Okoro for Tobias Harris and Shake Milton (not selling him as great but can play respectable minutes to fill in for Rubio)

Not sure if you guys are still very high on Okoro and this is laughable? Or if you’d welcome an all-star level talent (even if overpaid) in Harris that would actually be a good fit between Garland and Mobley. Thoughts?

Harris doesn’t really fit. Love works because we’re riding out his contract and he’s accepted a reduced role. Allen/Mobley are locked in at the 5/4 for better or worse. I wouldn’t expect Harris to be okay with that, and it elongates the situation.

The rest is contingent on that fit. We are high on Okoro because he complements Garland/Markkanen well. That’s not to say he’s not moveable, just that it creates a hole to close another.


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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#162 » by jbk1234 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:28 am

PhillyFan11 wrote:Sixers fan coming in peace…

Curious to what Cavs fans would think of a trade for Tobias Harris?
Kevin Love and Okoro for Tobias Harris and Shake Milton (not selling him as great but can play respectable minutes to fill in for Rubio)

Not sure if you guys are still very high on Okoro and this is laughable? Or if you’d welcome an all-star level talent (even if overpaid) in Harris that would actually be a good fit between Garland and Mobley. Thoughts?


I have zero interest in eating the last year of Harris's deal at $40M, that's before you have the Cavs adding Okoro.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#163 » by jbk1234 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:32 am

Harper4Ferry? wrote:I guess we can get an 8.9m dollar DPE for Rubio, but the player would need to be on an expiring contract.

I mean it'll be obvious that we have this exception available and are looking to use it on a PG/Backup PG so
POSSIBLY the Rockets might give Wall a buyout and then we could use all of that money to sign him but he'd also actually have to want to come here. Or Dragic could get bought out and we'd have that exception to use on him. But every good buyout guy is likely to sign with the Nets or Lakers I'd guess.

We'd also have to ask for this exception by 1/15 and would have to cut or trade someone on our roster to get down to 14 people to use the DPE. Also we'd be going into the tax pretty significantly if we used all of the exception and didn't send any salary out in a separate trade.

Candidates anyways-
Delon Wright
Tyus Jones
Denis Schroeder(seems unlikely to be traded)
Aaron Holiday-not sure you can acquire a player coming off rookie scale with a DPE, but maybe we could use the one from the Javele trade.
Michael Carter Williams(if he's ever healthy)

There's not much under 8.9m tbh


The DPE counts against the tax line and we've only got like $3M in space. I doubt we use it.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#164 » by Harper4Ferry? » Fri Dec 31, 2021 5:33 am

Do we have to cut someone to add Rondo? Or are we getting a roster exception with 2 guys out for the season? I'd probably cut Davis but Valentine would be another option. Also I'd release Tacko in a nano-second if we can get a guard into that 2-way spot.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#165 » by jbk1234 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 3:50 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#166 » by jbk1234 » Fri Dec 31, 2021 4:12 pm

Read on Twitter
?s=20
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#167 » by Harper4Ferry? » Fri Dec 31, 2021 6:30 pm

I hated Love as much as the next guy but he's been playing his butt off this season and is maybe a top 50-60 player in the league again.

Forgot to add, I don't consider him to be salary ballast anymore.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#168 » by JonFromVA » Fri Dec 31, 2021 7:10 pm

Kevin off the bench is cool, his D as a starter looked pretty bad vs the Wiz and it didn't help that Mobley wasn't able to clean things up.

Altman deserves credit for going off script and snagging Rondo for nothing. I wish we had a viable backup in place before we lost Garland, but Rondo wouldn't have agreed to the deal if Rubio didn't go down.

We can still entertain whatever we want to do at the deadline, but this is no 10 day signing. Rondo is about as close as we can get to Rubio and he makes the min.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#169 » by Harper4Ferry? » Fri Dec 31, 2021 8:24 pm

This Rondo thing will be a good chance to get an up close peek into him because he'll eventually be a pretty good head coaching candidate.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#170 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jan 2, 2022 1:33 am

JonFromVA wrote:Kevin off the bench is cool, his D as a starter looked pretty bad vs the Wiz and it didn't help that Mobley wasn't able to clean things up.

Altman deserves credit for going off script and snagging Rondo for nothing. I wish we had a viable backup in place before we lost Garland, but Rondo wouldn't have agreed to the deal if Rubio didn't go down.

We can still entertain whatever we want to do at the deadline, but this is no 10 day signing. Rondo is about as close as we can get to Rubio and he makes the min.



Yeah, Mobley without Allen looks like a very different player than Mobley with Allen. Mobley is years away from playing center in the NBA and that's assuming he every gets there. That's fine as he can still be a really good impact player out of the PF position, but people who act as though it's a fate accompli that we'll have to trade Allen are seeing something other than what I'm seeing.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#171 » by JonFromVA » Sun Jan 2, 2022 11:09 am

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Kevin off the bench is cool, his D as a starter looked pretty bad vs the Wiz and it didn't help that Mobley wasn't able to clean things up.

Altman deserves credit for going off script and snagging Rondo for nothing. I wish we had a viable backup in place before we lost Garland, but Rondo wouldn't have agreed to the deal if Rubio didn't go down.

We can still entertain whatever we want to do at the deadline, but this is no 10 day signing. Rondo is about as close as we can get to Rubio and he makes the min.



Yeah, Mobley without Allen looks like a very different player than Mobley with Allen. Mobley is years away from playing center in the NBA and that's assuming he every gets there. That's fine as he can still be a really good impact player out of the PF position, but people who act as though it's a fate accompli that we'll have to trade Allen are seeing something other than what I'm seeing.


Multiple factors in that case with Evan returning from Covid, trying to take on a bigger offensive role, lacking either of our usual points, Okoro recently back, and the Wiz targeting Love in the P&R.

In otherwords Garland and Rubio deserve some credit here for what they're doing at the point of attack and in the passing lanes too. It's only after all counter measures are exhausted that a player is going to look that exposed on D.


I'm hesitant to call the Cavs fragile, but our winning does revolve around our PG play and our front- court. In some ways bad Lauri is worse than no Lauri, but JBB can manage that
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#172 » by Revenged25 » Sun Jan 2, 2022 6:49 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:Kevin off the bench is cool, his D as a starter looked pretty bad vs the Wiz and it didn't help that Mobley wasn't able to clean things up.

Altman deserves credit for going off script and snagging Rondo for nothing. I wish we had a viable backup in place before we lost Garland, but Rondo wouldn't have agreed to the deal if Rubio didn't go down.

We can still entertain whatever we want to do at the deadline, but this is no 10 day signing. Rondo is about as close as we can get to Rubio and he makes the min.



Yeah, Mobley without Allen looks like a very different player than Mobley with Allen. Mobley is years away from playing center in the NBA and that's assuming he every gets there. That's fine as he can still be a really good impact player out of the PF position, but people who act as though it's a fate accompli that we'll have to trade Allen are seeing something other than what I'm seeing.


Multiple factors in that case with Evan returning from Covid, trying to take on a bigger offensive role, lacking either of our usual points, Okoro recently back, and the Wiz targeting Love in the P&R.

In otherwords Garland and Rubio deserve some credit here for what they're doing at the point of attack and in the passing lanes too. It's only after all counter measures are exhausted that a player is going to look that exposed on D.


I'm hesitant to call the Cavs fragile, but our winning does revolve around our PG play and our front- court. In some ways bad Lauri is worse than no Lauri, but JBB can manage that


Bad any player is always worse than no player.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#173 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jan 2, 2022 6:55 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:

Yeah, Mobley without Allen looks like a very different player than Mobley with Allen. Mobley is years away from playing center in the NBA and that's assuming he every gets there. That's fine as he can still be a really good impact player out of the PF position, but people who act as though it's a fate accompli that we'll have to trade Allen are seeing something other than what I'm seeing.


Multiple factors in that case with Evan returning from Covid, trying to take on a bigger offensive role, lacking either of our usual points, Okoro recently back, and the Wiz targeting Love in the P&R.

In otherwords Garland and Rubio deserve some credit here for what they're doing at the point of attack and in the passing lanes too. It's only after all counter measures are exhausted that a player is going to look that exposed on D.


I'm hesitant to call the Cavs fragile, but our winning does revolve around our PG play and our front- court. In some ways bad Lauri is worse than no Lauri, but JBB can manage that


Bad any player is always worse than no player.


I think Lauri off the bench at the 4 or 5 is how this likely ends up long term on the Cavs. He's 100% a confidence player, it's easier to get him going against second units, and he's never going to start in front of Allen or Mobley. But the Cavs are hardly unique in that they're starting a guy they'd rather have off the bench in the second unit because they don't presently have a better option at his position. Almost no team is satisfied with all five starters.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#174 » by JonFromVA » Mon Jan 3, 2022 5:28 pm

Revenged25 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:

Yeah, Mobley without Allen looks like a very different player than Mobley with Allen. Mobley is years away from playing center in the NBA and that's assuming he every gets there. That's fine as he can still be a really good impact player out of the PF position, but people who act as though it's a fate accompli that we'll have to trade Allen are seeing something other than what I'm seeing.


Multiple factors in that case with Evan returning from Covid, trying to take on a bigger offensive role, lacking either of our usual points, Okoro recently back, and the Wiz targeting Love in the P&R.

In otherwords Garland and Rubio deserve some credit here for what they're doing at the point of attack and in the passing lanes too. It's only after all counter measures are exhausted that a player is going to look that exposed on D.


I'm hesitant to call the Cavs fragile, but our winning does revolve around our PG play and our front- court. In some ways bad Lauri is worse than no Lauri, but JBB can manage that


Bad any player is always worse than no player.


It really depends what else the player brings to the table and how well he hides his "badness". That's why I didn't mind Garland dialing back his 3pt attempts when they didn't seem to be falling ... he could still contribute with his floater, setting up other players, getting his hands in the passing lanes, his gravity, etc.

The problem for Lauri is that Evan and Jarrett are better at those other things Lauri might do to help ... we really need him spacing the floor, burying his 3's, and trying as hard as possible on defense.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#175 » by toooskies » Wed Jan 12, 2022 8:56 pm

I'm not totally sold on Rondo fixing things, but it's interesting how the Cavs can absorb a lot of assets and have their 1st and two high 2nds to make deals with (I'm not of the belief that this team needs more than one rookie on their roster next year). They can do any and/or all of the below, depending on sequencing, while being a pure add to the players on the court (well, not totally-- potentially at the expense of roster spots for guys like Wade, Stevens, Davis):

- Absorb a guy into the $4.2m TPE generated by the Javale McGee trade (i.e. Nic Batum; given salary proration, this shouldn't bring us into the tax)
- Absorb a guy into the likely $8.9m DPE created by Rubio's injury (i.e. Dennis Schroder or DJ Augustin; tax hit for the higher end, but might not be by the deadline)
- Trade Sexton's RFA rights and $6.35m cap space (same guys as the DPE more or less, but no tax hit)
- Trade Rubio's Bird rights and $17.8m cap space (i.e. Harrison Barnes or Norm Powell; can be done after the DPE deal)
- Trade Rubio + Sexton's combined $24.15m

Toss in Markkanen or Love on top of those and you can make an offer for just about anybody while only losing one current rotation player.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#176 » by jbk1234 » Wed Jan 12, 2022 9:49 pm

toooskies wrote:I'm not totally sold on Rondo fixing things, but it's interesting how the Cavs can absorb a lot of assets and have their 1st and two high 2nds to make deals with (I'm not of the belief that this team needs more than one rookie on their roster next year). They can do any and/or all of the below, depending on sequencing, while being a pure add to the players on the court (well, not totally-- potentially at the expense of roster spots for guys like Wade, Stevens, Davis):

- Absorb a guy into the $4.2m TPE generated by the Javale McGee trade (i.e. Nic Batum; given salary proration, this shouldn't bring us into the tax)
- Absorb a guy into the likely $8.9m DPE created by Rubio's injury (i.e. Dennis Schroder or DJ Augustin; tax hit for the higher end, but might not be by the deadline)
- Trade Sexton's RFA rights and $6.35m cap space (same guys as the DPE more or less, but no tax hit)
- Trade Rubio's Bird rights and $17.8m cap space (i.e. Harrison Barnes or Norm Powell; can be done after the DPE deal)
- Trade Rubio + Sexton's combined $24.15m

Toss in Markkanen or Love on top of those and you can make an offer for just about anybody while only losing one current rotation player.


Rondo's only played two games with us so maybe give him a minute to get familiar with his teammates.

My preference is Eric Gordon to keep that 2023 slot open. I can't see the Hawks retaining both Reddish and Hunter. The math doesn't work. The problem the Cavs have is that while they have a lot of moveable parts to make a trade, most of the players who would be made available for what they have to offer are only marginal upgrades. That being the case, I'd be very careful in terms of what assets and future cap space I offered up in a deal.

The other problem is that Morey has basically frozen the entire trade market, and it will likely stay frozen, until the day of the deadline when people get tired of waiting on him. Even if I could talk myself into CJ McCollum on his contract, the Blazers are going to hold out hope that he can be a center piece in a Simmons trade (he can't) until Simmons is actually moved elsewhere. That dream needs to die before they'll be prepared to have a reasonable conversation.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#177 » by toooskies » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:21 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:I'm not totally sold on Rondo fixing things, but it's interesting how the Cavs can absorb a lot of assets and have their 1st and two high 2nds to make deals with (I'm not of the belief that this team needs more than one rookie on their roster next year). They can do any and/or all of the below, depending on sequencing, while being a pure add to the players on the court (well, not totally-- potentially at the expense of roster spots for guys like Wade, Stevens, Davis):

- Absorb a guy into the $4.2m TPE generated by the Javale McGee trade (i.e. Nic Batum; given salary proration, this shouldn't bring us into the tax)
- Absorb a guy into the likely $8.9m DPE created by Rubio's injury (i.e. Dennis Schroder or DJ Augustin; tax hit for the higher end, but might not be by the deadline)
- Trade Sexton's RFA rights and $6.35m cap space (same guys as the DPE more or less, but no tax hit)
- Trade Rubio's Bird rights and $17.8m cap space (i.e. Harrison Barnes or Norm Powell; can be done after the DPE deal)
- Trade Rubio + Sexton's combined $24.15m

Toss in Markkanen or Love on top of those and you can make an offer for just about anybody while only losing one current rotation player.


Rondo's only played two games with us so maybe give him a minute to get familiar with his teammates.

My preference is Eric Gordon to keep that 2023 slot open. I can't see the Hawks retaining both Reddish and Hunter. The math doesn't work. The problem the Cavs have is that while they have a lot of moveable parts to make a trade, most of the players who would be made available for what they have to offer are only marginal upgrades. That being the case, I'd be very careful in terms of what assets and future cap space I offered up in a deal.

The other problem is that Morey has basically frozen the entire trade market, and it will likely stay frozen, until the day of the deadline when people get tired of waiting on him. Even if I could talk myself into CJ McCollum on his contract, the Blazers are going to hold out hope that he can be a center piece in a Simmons trade (he can't) until Simmons is actually moved elsewhere. That dream needs to die before they'll be prepared to have a reasonable conversation.

Oh, I think Portland is going to tank with Lillard out for 6-8+ weeks. They have no urgency to make a move for Simmons, he isn't saving them. In the meantime, Portland needs to move RoCo and Nurkic and get out of the tax.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#178 » by JonFromVA » Wed Jan 12, 2022 11:34 pm

https://craftednba.com/teams/cleveland is kind of an interesting site when considering trades and what we should do. For one thing, it's interesting they believe we have just 4 players who grade out as starters and 2 rotation players.

We hope we have something more like a franchise player, an elite player, an all-star as well as a bunch of stater's and rotation players, but they don't see it that way ... they believe our roster talent level should have us lottery bound.

And I doubt that takes in to account that one of our starter ranked players (aka Ricky) isn't going to play again.

My take away is we need to keep developing what we have and turning players who are making no impact now in to starters/rotation players and/or acquiring them somehow. So keeping our picks isn't necessarily a mistake because we still need to do a lot of work developing this roster.

We can use this web site to look at teams with a surplus of starters/rotation players and ponder if we can trade for them, but we need to be careful reaching deeper or we risk trading projects for projects. For instance, Cam Reddish still looks a lot like an NBA player (and has since high school), but continues to struggle to consistently play like one.

According to craftednba, the Hakws have 10 rotation or better players. Any of them might help us, but none of them include Reddish ... so buy low if you buy at all.

Indiana has 9 rotation or better players, including LeVert, and there's quite a bit to like from his individual stats; we'd just better be convinced his efficiency is going to skyrocket as a Cavalier because his current 51.7 TS% is unacceptable.

Memphis is another team we should be looking at as they have 12 rotation or better players.

And I'm not sure why, but even Dallas supposedly has 10 rotation or better players.

I will say, this site relies alot on advanced plus-minus based stats that are likely prior years informed in various ways, so a team on the come up like the Cavs may very well lag behind, but we do lack quality depth.

I'm sure Koby will be ready and waiting to take advantage of any situation that comes up, but I do expect him to be careful and not throw the team in to the luxury tax over a short term fix that costs us assets that might help fill out the team.

For instance, craftednba doesn't even rate Eric Gordon as rotation quality in spite of recognizing his shooting and secondary playmaking. Those two traits sound pretty good for the Cavs, but they also rate him to be a sieve on defense and overall a much more negative player on defense than he is a positive on offense.

I've heard the name Kenrich Williams come up, I guess the thought is that at 27 he may be too old for the Thunder, but statistically speaking he looks pretty much ideal to slide in to our wing spot. He's only owed $2M this year and next, and it's non-guaranteed. I wouldn't flinch if we gave up a pick for him. He kind of sucks at free-throws and that drags down his TS%, but ideally we'd want to boost his 3pt attempts. He's a good passer, but from what I understand he wouldn't help as a secondary creator. Also reportedly a solid team defender.
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#179 » by JonFromVA » Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:35 pm

Looks like the Knicks were the first team to pony up a first round pick for Reddish, so, he's no longer our immediate concern.

https://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/265431/Knicks-Acquire-Cam-Reddish-From-Hawks-For-Protected-2022-FRP
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Re: Trade ideas 

Post#180 » by KuruptedCav » Thu Jan 13, 2022 6:36 pm

With the Atlanta reset, is a deal for DeAndre Hunter viable or cost prohibitive?


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