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[mcfly1204]

True but it's not like they have downgraded, they're all upgrades. OG and Bridges are on par with Jrue and White, as far as defense goes.

Their bench has lost a ton of depth.

Long as they stay healthy, shouldn't matter. Celtics just won a title playing 8 guys and the Nuggets won a title the year before playing 8 guys.

Going 12 deep is awesome for the regular season, just not feasible in the playoffs.

Can they make it to the playoffs healthy? Time will tell. Health, luck, and talent are how championships are won.

Are you now an advocate for short rotations?...

[JujitsuFlip]

Their bench has lost a ton of depth.

Long as they stay healthy, shouldn't matter. Celtics just won a title playing 8 guys and the Nuggets won a title the year before playing 8 guys.

Going 12 deep is awesome for the regular season, just not feasible in the playoffs.

Can they make it to the playoffs healthy? Time will tell. Health, luck, and talent are how championships are won.

Are you now an advocate for short rotations?...

In the regular season? Absolutely not.

For 16 wins in the playoffs, i think 8 is fine, getting real minutes

The issue myself and if rumors are to be believed, Koby Altman had with jb, is cat is running a short tight 8 man rotation starting in October... That's not sustainable.

Even Kenny said he's gonna use a long rotation from like October to March so he can see what he has. He can evaluate individuals and different lineups and go from there.

Taking the jb approach and only trusting 8 guys from day 1 sucks. Bc when injuries and foul trouble inevitably hit... Dude only has 6 guys left to play real consistent minutes in the playoffs.

[jbk1234]

They already owned the Cavs and now i want zero parts of them in a 7 game series. That team is scary. Their lack of depth isn't an issue either, because Thibs plays such a tight rotation.

Yeah, i have them and the Celtics as 1a and 1b in the East.

Thibs plays a tight rotation that gets guys hurt.

The Knicks roster only has three guys left that got minutes on the team that beat us in the playoffs two years ago.

True but it's not like they have downgraded, they're all upgrades. OG and Bridges are on par with Jrue and White, as far as defense goes.

They lost Hartenstein for nothing and he was huge for them. Quickley, Randle, DDV, Toppin, and Barrett are all gone. That's 5 of the guys who saw real minutes for them in that series (plus their key 3 point threat from last year).

Bridges is significantly worse at the 2 than the 3 due to his handle. Same with O.G. Hart should never be a primary ball handler. Their backcourt took a huge step back and whatever defensive improvement occurred as a result of acquiring OG and Bridges, has to be offset by KAT's inclusion as a starter.

It remains to be seen whether this team is better.

[jbk1234]

Kudos to the Knicks, they have did such a good job building around Brunson. I wish Koby would take some notes, the fit over there is spectacular.

Since Brunson signed in the summer of 2022 the Knicks turned Reddish, Arcidiacono, Mykhailiuk, RJ, IQ, Shake, Bogi, Diakite, Jefferies, Randle, and DDV into Hart, OG, Bridges, and KAT.

4 quality starters next to Brunson, all acquired via trade.

Brunson
Bridges
OG
Hart
KAT

That's crazy that they KAT for Randle, DDV, and a pick.

There are 5-10 players in the NBA who are actually worth a supermax deal and KAT's not one of them.

[JujitsuFlip]

Thibs plays a tight rotation that gets guys hurt.

The Knicks roster only has three guys left that got minutes on the team that beat us in the playoffs two years ago.

True but it's not like they have downgraded, they're all upgrades. OG and Bridges are on par with Jrue and White, as far as defense goes.

They lost Hartenstein for nothing and he was huge for them. Quickley, Randle, DDV, Toppin, and Barrett are all gone. That's 5 of the guys who saw real minutes for them in that series (plus their key 3 point threat from last year).

Bridges is significantly worse at the 2 than the 3 due to his handle. Same with O.G. Hart should never be a primary ball handler. Their backcourt took a huge step back and whatever defensive improvement occurred as a result of acquiring OG and Bridges, has to be offset by KAT's inclusion as a starter.

It remains to be seen whether this team is better.

Brunson will handle the ball. Losing the black hole Randle for the best 3 point shooting big in KAT is a massive upgrade.

It doesn't really matter who plays the 2, 3, or 4 outta Hart, Bridges, and OG it's all matchup dependant.

[jbk1234]

True but it's not like they have downgraded, they're all upgrades. OG and Bridges are on par with Jrue and White, as far as defense goes.

They lost Hartenstein for nothing and he was huge for them. Quickley, Randle, DDV, Toppin, and Barrett are all gone. That's 5 of the guys who saw real minutes for them in that series (plus their key 3 point threat from last year).

Bridges is significantly worse at the 2 than the 3 due to his handle. Same with O.G. Hart should never be a primary ball handler. Their backcourt took a huge step back and whatever defensive improvement occurred as a result of acquiring OG and Bridges, has to be offset by KAT's inclusion as a starter.

It remains to be seen whether this team is better.

Brunson will handle the ball. Losing the black hole Randle for the best 3 point shooting big in KAT is a massive upgrade.

It doesn't really matter who plays the 2, 3, or 4 outta Hart, Bridges, and OG it's all matchup dependant.

It's going to matter offensively because none of Hart, Bridges, nor OG are good secondary ball handlers. They made Brunson's job a lot harder in the postseason, and it's going to be disaster pants when he rests. McBride is nowhere near IQ in terms of his ability to run a second unit.

[JujitsuFlip]

They lost Hartenstein for nothing and he was huge for them. Quickley, Randle, DDV, Toppin, and Barrett are all gone. That's 5 of the guys who saw real minutes for them in that series (plus their key 3 point threat from last year).

Bridges is significantly worse at the 2 than the 3 due to his handle. Same with O.G. Hart should never be a primary ball handler. Their backcourt took a huge step back and whatever defensive improvement occurred as a result of acquiring OG and Bridges, has to be offset by KAT's inclusion as a starter.

It remains to be seen whether this team is better.

Brunson will handle the ball. Losing the black hole Randle for the best 3 point shooting big in KAT is a massive upgrade.

It doesn't really matter who plays the 2, 3, or 4 outta Hart, Bridges, and OG it's all matchup dependant.

It's going to matter offensively because none of Hart, Bridges, nor OG are good secondary ball handlers. They made Brunson's job a lot harder in the postseason, and it's going to be disaster pants when he rests. McBride is nowhere near IQ in terms of his ability to run a second unit.

McBride and IQ are pretty comparable, as far as secondary ball handlers.

Plus, the offense can run through KAT when Brunson sits.

What ball handlers did the Knicks lose?

[jbk1234]

Brunson will handle the ball. Losing the black hole Randle for the best 3 point shooting big in KAT is a massive upgrade.

It doesn't really matter who plays the 2, 3, or 4 outta Hart, Bridges, and OG it's all matchup dependant.

It's going to matter offensively because none of Hart, Bridges, nor OG are good secondary ball handlers. They made Brunson's job a lot harder in the postseason, and it's going to be disaster pants when he rests. McBride is nowhere near IQ in terms of his ability to run a second unit.

McBride and IQ are pretty comparable, as far as secondary ball handlers.

Plus, the offense can run through KAT when Brunson sits.

What ball handlers did the Knicks lose?

IQ, DDV, and even Barrett are all better options than everyone but Brunson, and no, McBride isn't even close to IQ in terms of running an offense.

[JujitsuFlip]

It's going to matter offensively because none of Hart, Bridges, nor OG are good secondary ball handlers. They made Brunson's job a lot harder in the postseason, and it's going to be disaster pants when he rests. McBride is nowhere near IQ in terms of his ability to run a second unit.

McBride and IQ are pretty comparable, as far as secondary ball handlers.

Plus, the offense can run through KAT when Brunson sits.

What ball handlers did the Knicks lose?

IQ, DDV, and even Barrett are all better options than everyone but Brunson, and no, McBride isn't even close to IQ in terms of running an offense.

Don't make me laugh by saying RJ lol

I never saw DDV ball handle on any of his teams so I'll have to take your word for it but KAT is still a much better player and an improvement overall for the team. Brunson has never had this much spacing or a big pick and pop threat like KAT.

This Knicks starting 5 is nasty and can lock up the opposing teams top 3 perimeter players, simultaneously.

[jbk1234]

McBride and IQ are pretty comparable, as far as secondary ball handlers.

Plus, the offense can run through KAT when Brunson sits.

What ball handlers did the Knicks lose?

IQ, DDV, and even Barrett are all better options than everyone but Brunson, and no, McBride isn't even close to IQ in terms of running an offense.

Don't make me laugh by saying RJ lol

I never saw DDV ball handle on any of his teams so I'll have to take your word for it but KAT is still a much better player and an improvement overall for the team. Brunson has never had this much spacing or a big pick and pop threat like KAT.

This Knicks starting 5 is nasty and can lock up the opposing teams top 3 perimeter players, simultaneously.

Hart shoots 34% from 3, Bridges is better than league average, but barely, and OG averages less than 5 apg.

DDV shot 40% from 3 on 8.7 apg last season. IQ's numbers were right there with Bridges. Even guys like Toppins and Randle are able shoot some from range. This all assumes that the Knicks are able to keep OG healthy while starting at the PF.

[toooskies]

McBride and IQ are pretty comparable, as far as secondary ball handlers.

Plus, the offense can run through KAT when Brunson sits.

What ball handlers did the Knicks lose?

IQ, DDV, and even Barrett are all better options than everyone but Brunson, and no, McBride isn't even close to IQ in terms of running an offense.

Don't make me laugh by saying RJ lol

I never saw DDV ball handle on any of his teams so I'll have to take your word for it but KAT is still a much better player and an improvement overall for the team. Brunson has never had this much spacing or a big pick and pop threat like KAT.

This Knicks starting 5 is nasty and can lock up the opposing teams top 3 perimeter players, simultaneously.

The problem is the Knicks also have no rim protection behind their perimeter D. Bridges hasn't been a lockdown defender in a bit.

DDV was one of the best shooters in the league last year. IQ won 6MOTY. Randle has multiple All-NBA accolades. Their subtractions are not trivial.

McBride had fewer assists per game last year than Okoro. Tyler Kolek is somehow super-important on their roster.

[JujitsuFlip]

IQ, DDV, and even Barrett are all better options than everyone but Brunson, and no, McBride isn't even close to IQ in terms of running an offense.

Don't make me laugh by saying RJ lol

I never saw DDV ball handle on any of his teams so I'll have to take your word for it but KAT is still a much better player and an improvement overall for the team. Brunson has never had this much spacing or a big pick and pop threat like KAT.

This Knicks starting 5 is nasty and can lock up the opposing teams top 3 perimeter players, simultaneously.

Hart shoots 34% from 3, Bridges is better than league average, but barely, and OG averages less than 5 apg.

DDV shot 40% from 3 on 8.7 apg last season. IQ's numbers were right there with Bridges. Even guys like Toppins and Randle are able shoot some from range. This all assumes that the Knicks are able to keep OG healthy while starting at the PF.

If their worst 3 point shooter is shooting 34% i think they're going to be damn good.

DDV shot 40% wow, KAT shot 41.6% and he's a center lol

OG is a shade under 40%, his volume doesn't need to go much higher.

37% from Bridges on 7 attemps per game is nothing to sneeze at.

Compare it to the Cavs whose worst player shot 0% from deep, providing zero spacing. The Cavs next player is 26.5% on a single attempt per game.

Knicks have 3 dudes shooting 40% from deep in their starting 5 and the Cavs have 0. Knicks are gonna be TOUGH.

[JujitsuFlip]

IQ, DDV, and even Barrett are all better options than everyone but Brunson, and no, McBride isn't even close to IQ in terms of running an offense.

Don't make me laugh by saying RJ lol

I never saw DDV ball handle on any of his teams so I'll have to take your word for it but KAT is still a much better player and an improvement overall for the team. Brunson has never had this much spacing or a big pick and pop threat like KAT.

This Knicks starting 5 is nasty and can lock up the opposing teams top 3 perimeter players, simultaneously.

The problem is the Knicks also have no rim protection behind their perimeter D. Bridges hasn't been a lockdown defender in a bit.

DDV was one of the best shooters in the league last year. IQ won 6MOTY. Randle has multiple All-NBA accolades. Their subtractions are not trivial.

McBride had fewer assists per game last year than Okoro. Tyler Kolek is somehow super-important on their roster.

Of course the Knicks do. They still have Mitchell Robinson (sometime in 2025), Sims, and Precious Achiuwa. Matchups will be situational.

I can't confirm your Bridges line but getting back to playing with actual NBA players should help.

And yet KAT shot better than DDV lol

Almost anyone would take OG over IQ.

Randle is addition by subtraction, especially if the rumors about him being disgruntled are true.

You forget this is a Thibs led team, Brunson is going to play dang near 36 mpg.

[jbk1234]

Don't make me laugh by saying RJ lol

I never saw DDV ball handle on any of his teams so I'll have to take your word for it but KAT is still a much better player and an improvement overall for the team. Brunson has never had this much spacing or a big pick and pop threat like KAT.

This Knicks starting 5 is nasty and can lock up the opposing teams top 3 perimeter players, simultaneously.

Hart shoots 34% from 3, Bridges is better than league average, but barely, and OG averages less than 5 apg.

DDV shot 40% from 3 on 8.7 apg last season. IQ's numbers were right there with Bridges. Even guys like Toppins and Randle are able shoot some from range. This all assumes that the Knicks are able to keep OG healthy while starting at the PF.

If their worst 3 point shooter is shooting 34% i think they're going to be damn good.

DDV shot 40% wow, KAT shot 41.6% and he's a center lol

OG is a shade under 40%, his volume doesn't need to go much higher.

37% from Bridges on 7 attemps per game is nothing to sneeze at.

Compare it to the Cavs whose worst player shot 0% from deep, providing zero spacing. The Cavs next player is 26.5% on a single attempt per game.

Knicks have 3 dudes shooting 40% from deep in their starting 5 and the Cavs have 0. Knicks are gonna be TOUGH.

KAT shot 1% better than DDV on 4 less attempts. Only two players in the NBA converted more 3pa than DDV last season: Curry and Luka. DDV makes $12M per. KAT makes $50M per. Also, while Randle has his flaws, he did a lot of heavy lifting offensively for them in the regular season.

The proof will be in the pudding, but the Knicks ability to even keep the team together is premised on the assumption that Bridges will sign an extension for 50-60% of his market value. Until that happens, a healthy does of skepticism is warranted.

[JujitsuFlip]

Hart shoots 34% from 3, Bridges is better than league average, but barely, and OG averages less than 5 apg.

DDV shot 40% from 3 on 8.7 apg last season. IQ's numbers were right there with Bridges. Even guys like Toppins and Randle are able shoot some from range. This all assumes that the Knicks are able to keep OG healthy while starting at the PF.

If their worst 3 point shooter is shooting 34% i think they're going to be damn good.

DDV shot 40% wow, KAT shot 41.6% and he's a center lol

OG is a shade under 40%, his volume doesn't need to go much higher.

37% from Bridges on 7 attemps per game is nothing to sneeze at.

Compare it to the Cavs whose worst player shot 0% from deep, providing zero spacing. The Cavs next player is 26.5% on a single attempt per game.

Knicks have 3 dudes shooting 40% from deep in their starting 5 and the Cavs have 0. Knicks are gonna be TOUGH.

KAT shot 1% better than DDV on 4 less attempts. Only two players in the NBA converted more 3pa than DDV last season: Curry and Luka. DDV makes $12M per. KAT makes $50M per. Also, while Randle has his flaws, he did a lot of heavy lifting offensively for them in the regular season.

The proof will be in the pudding, but the Knicks ability to even keep the team together is premised on the assumption that Bridges will sign an extension for 50-60% of his market value. Until that happens, a healthy does of skepticism is warranted.

Anything Randle did on offense KAT can do too and then some.

The Knicks have 2 seasons before Bridges is a free agent. The contract skepticism doesn't matter in the present.

[toooskies]

If their worst 3 point shooter is shooting 34% i think they're going to be damn good.

DDV shot 40% wow, KAT shot 41.6% and he's a center lol

OG is a shade under 40%, his volume doesn't need to go much higher.

37% from Bridges on 7 attemps per game is nothing to sneeze at.

Compare it to the Cavs whose worst player shot 0% from deep, providing zero spacing. The Cavs next player is 26.5% on a single attempt per game.

Knicks have 3 dudes shooting 40% from deep in their starting 5 and the Cavs have 0. Knicks are gonna be TOUGH.

KAT shot 1% better than DDV on 4 less attempts. Only two players in the NBA converted more 3pa than DDV last season: Curry and Luka. DDV makes $12M per. KAT makes $50M per. Also, while Randle has his flaws, he did a lot of heavy lifting offensively for them in the regular season.

The proof will be in the pudding, but the Knicks ability to even keep the team together is premised on the assumption that Bridges will sign an extension for 50-60% of his market value. Until that happens, a healthy does of skepticism is warranted.

Anything Randle did on offense KAT can do too and then some.

The Knicks have 2 seasons before Bridges is a free agent. The contract skepticism doesn't matter in the present.

Randle's a better passer. KAT is a better shooter. They both are notably worse in the Playoffs, unless you think KAT suddenly had a switch flip in his head last year. I think Ant knew how to press his buttons correctly and I'm not sure the same is going to be true in NY where KAT will have all his buttons pushed by the media.

Mikal Bridges' D-LEBRON the past 6 seasons:
2021-22 1.18
2022-23 0.25
2023-24 -0.81

DARKO has his D-DPM at -0.41.
His BBRef DBPM was -1.0. His DRtg was 118 last year, just a hair better than Cam Thomas's 119.

Not saying he can't get back to his previous heights on D but the trend started before he got traded to Brooklyn, so I'm going to have to see it turn around to believe it. (Donovan Mitchell cleared Bridges in all the above stats the past two years, btw.)

[JujitsuFlip]

KAT shot 1% better than DDV on 4 less attempts. Only two players in the NBA converted more 3pa than DDV last season: Curry and Luka. DDV makes $12M per. KAT makes $50M per. Also, while Randle has his flaws, he did a lot of heavy lifting offensively for them in the regular season.

The proof will be in the pudding, but the Knicks ability to even keep the team together is premised on the assumption that Bridges will sign an extension for 50-60% of his market value. Until that happens, a healthy does of skepticism is warranted.

Anything Randle did on offense KAT can do too and then some.

The Knicks have 2 seasons before Bridges is a free agent. The contract skepticism doesn't matter in the present.

Randle's a better passer. KAT is a better shooter. They both are notably worse in the Playoffs, unless you think KAT suddenly had a switch flip in his head last year. I think Ant knew how to press his buttons correctly and I'm not sure the same is going to be true in NY where KAT will have all his buttons pushed by the media.

Mikal Bridges' D-LEBRON the past 6 seasons:
2021-22 1.18
2022-23 0.25
2023-24 -0.81

DARKO has his D-DPM at -0.41.
His BBRef DBPM was -1.0. His DRtg was 118 last year, just a hair better than Cam Thomas's 119.

Not saying he can't get back to his previous heights on D but the trend started before he got traded to Brooklyn, so I'm going to have to see it turn around to believe it. (Donovan Mitchell cleared Bridges in all the above stats the past two years, btw.)

And everyone is saying KAT was the reason the Wolves made it to the WCF due to slowing down Jokic, why Nuggets fans were so stoked on the trade.

How much are those metrics influenced by teammates? Because Spida plays with 2 of the best defensive bigs in the game the past 2 seasons. Meanwhile, Bridges has been on one of the worst teams in the NBA for 1.5 of those seasons.

[jbk1234]

Anything Randle did on offense KAT can do too and then some.

The Knicks have 2 seasons before Bridges is a free agent. The contract skepticism doesn't matter in the present.

Randle's a better passer. KAT is a better shooter. They both are notably worse in the Playoffs, unless you think KAT suddenly had a switch flip in his head last year. I think Ant knew how to press his buttons correctly and I'm not sure the same is going to be true in NY where KAT will have all his buttons pushed by the media.

Mikal Bridges' D-LEBRON the past 6 seasons:
2021-22 1.18
2022-23 0.25
2023-24 -0.81

DARKO has his D-DPM at -0.41.
His BBRef DBPM was -1.0. His DRtg was 118 last year, just a hair better than Cam Thomas's 119.

Not saying he can't get back to his previous heights on D but the trend started before he got traded to Brooklyn, so I'm going to have to see it turn around to believe it. (Donovan Mitchell cleared Bridges in all the above stats the past two years, btw.)

And everyone is saying KAT was the reason the Wolves made it to the WCF due to slowing down Jokic, why Nuggets fans were so stoked on the trade.

How much are those metrics influenced by teammates? Because Spida plays with 2 of the best defensive bigs in the game the past 2 seasons. Meanwhile, Bridges has been on one of the worst teams in the NBA for 1.5 of those seasons.

KAT slowed Jokic with Gobert playing behind him. Also, that's a very specific, if not unique matchup in KAT's favor.

[JujitsuFlip]

Randle's a better passer. KAT is a better shooter. They both are notably worse in the Playoffs, unless you think KAT suddenly had a switch flip in his head last year. I think Ant knew how to press his buttons correctly and I'm not sure the same is going to be true in NY where KAT will have all his buttons pushed by the media.

Mikal Bridges' D-LEBRON the past 6 seasons:
2021-22 1.18
2022-23 0.25
2023-24 -0.81

DARKO has his D-DPM at -0.41.
His BBRef DBPM was -1.0. His DRtg was 118 last year, just a hair better than Cam Thomas's 119.

Not saying he can't get back to his previous heights on D but the trend started before he got traded to Brooklyn, so I'm going to have to see it turn around to believe it. (Donovan Mitchell cleared Bridges in all the above stats the past two years, btw.)

And everyone is saying KAT was the reason the Wolves made it to the WCF due to slowing down Jokic, why Nuggets fans were so stoked on the trade.

How much are those metrics influenced by teammates? Because Spida plays with 2 of the best defensive bigs in the game the past 2 seasons. Meanwhile, Bridges has been on one of the worst teams in the NBA for 1.5 of those seasons.

KAT slowed Jokic with Gobert playing behind him. Also, that's a very specific, if not unique matchup in KAT's favor.

Nugs just won a title 2 years ago, might be an important team to want to be a good matchup against, if the Knicks can clear the East.

[toooskies]

Anything Randle did on offense KAT can do too and then some.

The Knicks have 2 seasons before Bridges is a free agent. The contract skepticism doesn't matter in the present.

Randle's a better passer. KAT is a better shooter. They both are notably worse in the Playoffs, unless you think KAT suddenly had a switch flip in his head last year. I think Ant knew how to press his buttons correctly and I'm not sure the same is going to be true in NY where KAT will have all his buttons pushed by the media.

Mikal Bridges' D-LEBRON the past 6 seasons:
2021-22 1.18
2022-23 0.25
2023-24 -0.81

DARKO has his D-DPM at -0.41.
His BBRef DBPM was -1.0. His DRtg was 118 last year, just a hair better than Cam Thomas's 119.

Not saying he can't get back to his previous heights on D but the trend started before he got traded to Brooklyn, so I'm going to have to see it turn around to believe it. (Donovan Mitchell cleared Bridges in all the above stats the past two years, btw.)

And everyone is saying KAT was the reason the Wolves made it to the WCF due to slowing down Jokic, why Nuggets fans were so stoked on the trade.

How much are those metrics influenced by teammates? Because Spida plays with 2 of the best defensive bigs in the game the past 2 seasons. Meanwhile, Bridges has been on one of the worst teams in the NBA for 1.5 of those seasons.

Yes, defensive stats often are influenced by teammates. But even within his own team his defensive stats are bad. Not only did Bridges have a bad DRtg, he had one of the worst on his team. (16th out of 21.) While DRtg is usually not valid to compare between teams, within a team it will tell you who is always part of their best defensive lineups. Bridges was third-last in D-LEBRON on his own team. Fifth-last in D-DPM.

Maybe he's pacing himself defensively while taking an offensive load. Or maybe he's accumulating the wear-and-tear that guys like Tristan Thompson have shown when iron-manning their way through too many seasons. But his defensive production has dropped in every measure I've checked. He's been coasting on reputation, whereas a guy like Alex Caruso still plays good D when on a mediocre team.