Trade Ideas

[JujitsuFlip]

The future may not be a parade to higher efficiency, and if so, why would you not prefer the team leader in TS% to come back? The Wolves just won their series by holding the defending champs to 90 points. Indiana is just healthier than New York.

Allen is extendable to just one contract year shorter than Mobley. And at a cheaper number, and not at a guaranteed lower level of performance.

But I can guarantee Mobley would get much, much more in return. Mobley has more potential. But I think he's unlikely to realize all of it.

Because the guy doesn't shoot outside of 3 feet... Spacing has been an issue since Jafro got here, time to modernize the offense.

KAT also attemps 5 threes per game and converts at a 40% clip, you're making my point for me.

Allen is the guy who was refusing to play and who dislikes the head coach that our drunk GM refuses to fire.

I'm picking the 22 year old, that's my answer and I'm sticking to it. The guy will at least shoot a 3 if he's wide open.

Given that Allen played through an initial rib injury before Wagner "pierced" his rib, I'm going to assume Allen was both a) in a lot of pain and b) at continued risk of further injury.

Allen consistently gets positioning within three feet of the basket with opportunities to score. You aren't gifted those. The other team doesn't just let you have them.

That is news to me. Yeah, they tried to give him something for the pain.

To the last part, who cares? It still clogs up the lane and makes the offense clunky. You can't have 2 guys simultaneously standing in the dunker position on either side of the lane. It is 2024, time to modernize the offense.

[JonFromVA]

Because the guy doesn't shoot outside of 3 feet... Spacing has been an issue since Jafro got here, time to modernize the offense.

KAT also attemps 5 threes per game and converts at a 40% clip, you're making my point for me.

Allen is the guy who was refusing to play and who dislikes the head coach that our drunk GM refuses to fire.

I'm picking the 22 year old, that's my answer and I'm sticking to it. The guy will at least shoot a 3 if he's wide open.

Given that Allen played through an initial rib injury before Wagner "pierced" his rib, I'm going to assume Allen was both a) in a lot of pain and b) at continued risk of further injury.

Allen consistently gets positioning within three feet of the basket with opportunities to score. You aren't gifted those. The other team doesn't just let you have them.

That is news to me. Yeah, they tried to give him something for the pain.

To the last part, who cares? It still clogs up the lane and makes the offense clunky. You can't have 2 guys simultaneously standing in the dunker position on either side of the lane. It is 2024, time to modernize the offense.

After firing Bickerstaff, or he will still find ways to clog up the paint ...

Making everything harder on offense AND defense comes at a cost and I think we're seeing a mini coup over it this off-season. We have to play harder in order to cover-up the lack of spacing in our offense and the lack of perimeter length in our defense and this leads to fatigue, and fatigue can lead to injury and lower individual stats ... which is ultimately $$$ and angry calls from agents.

Can you think of a player on the team who wouldn't look better offensively playing in more space?

To make matters worse for those who think our starting 5 could work, the lineup data from this season says they were just mediocre and our best lineups featured only one of Allen or Mobley. The playoff lineup data has no good news in it, either.

There's a case to be made to completely blow up the roster so we can go 5 out with enough length all around so we can still survive in the paint and on the boards when our "bigs" are away from the basket.

[jbk1234]

Given that Allen played through an initial rib injury before Wagner "pierced" his rib, I'm going to assume Allen was both a) in a lot of pain and b) at continued risk of further injury.

Allen consistently gets positioning within three feet of the basket with opportunities to score. You aren't gifted those. The other team doesn't just let you have them.

That is news to me. Yeah, they tried to give him something for the pain.

To the last part, who cares? It still clogs up the lane and makes the offense clunky. You can't have 2 guys simultaneously standing in the dunker position on either side of the lane. It is 2024, time to modernize the offense.

After firing Bickerstaff, or he will still find ways to clog up the paint ...

Making everything harder on offense AND defense comes at a cost and I think we're seeing a mini coup over it this off-season. We have to play harder in order to cover-up the lack of spacing in our offense and the lack of perimeter length in our defense and this leads to fatigue, and fatigue can lead to injury and lower individual stats ... which is ultimately $$$ and angry calls from agents.

Can you think of a player on the team who wouldn't look better offensively playing in more space?

To make matters worse for those who think our starting 5 could work, the lineup data from this season says they were just mediocre and our best lineups featured only one of Allen or Mobley. The playoff lineup data has no good news in it, either.

There's a case to be made to completely blow up the roster so we can go 5 out with enough length all around so we can still survive in the paint and on the boards when our "bigs" are away from the basket.

I find it difficult to believe that the playoff data has no good news in it due simply to the fact that Niang was often on the floor with Allen or Mobley while the other one rested in the first 4 games of that 1st series.

[JonFromVA]

That is news to me. Yeah, they tried to give him something for the pain.

To the last part, who cares? It still clogs up the lane and makes the offense clunky. You can't have 2 guys simultaneously standing in the dunker position on either side of the lane. It is 2024, time to modernize the offense.

After firing Bickerstaff, or he will still find ways to clog up the paint ...

Making everything harder on offense AND defense comes at a cost and I think we're seeing a mini coup over it this off-season. We have to play harder in order to cover-up the lack of spacing in our offense and the lack of perimeter length in our defense and this leads to fatigue, and fatigue can lead to injury and lower individual stats ... which is ultimately $$$ and angry calls from agents.

Can you think of a player on the team who wouldn't look better offensively playing in more space?

To make matters worse for those who think our starting 5 could work, the lineup data from this season says they were just mediocre and our best lineups featured only one of Allen or Mobley. The playoff lineup data has no good news in it, either.

There's a case to be made to completely blow up the roster so we can go 5 out with enough length all around so we can still survive in the paint and on the boards when our "bigs" are away from the basket.

I find it difficult to believe that the playoff data has no good news in it due simply to the fact that Niang was often on the floor with Allen or Mobley while the other one rested in the first 4 games of that 1st series.

Feel free to look for it yourself, but personally I'm amazed we figured out a way to take a 40% playoff 3pt shooter when he was in Philly and turn him in to a 13% shooter for us. Oh, wait, no I'm not.

I wouldn't begrudge Niang for thinking the difference between him being a playoff contributor in Philly to becoming unplayable for Cleveland is the caveman offense we run.

[jbk1234]

After firing Bickerstaff, or he will still find ways to clog up the paint ...

Making everything harder on offense AND defense comes at a cost and I think we're seeing a mini coup over it this off-season. We have to play harder in order to cover-up the lack of spacing in our offense and the lack of perimeter length in our defense and this leads to fatigue, and fatigue can lead to injury and lower individual stats ... which is ultimately $$$ and angry calls from agents.

Can you think of a player on the team who wouldn't look better offensively playing in more space?

To make matters worse for those who think our starting 5 could work, the lineup data from this season says they were just mediocre and our best lineups featured only one of Allen or Mobley. The playoff lineup data has no good news in it, either.

There's a case to be made to completely blow up the roster so we can go 5 out with enough length all around so we can still survive in the paint and on the boards when our "bigs" are away from the basket.

I find it difficult to believe that the playoff data has no good news in it due simply to the fact that Niang was often on the floor with Allen or Mobley while the other one rested in the first 4 games of that 1st series.

Feel free to look for it yourself, but personally I'm amazed we figured out a way to take a 40% playoff 3pt shooter when he was in Philly and turn him in to a 13% shooter for us. Oh, wait, no I'm not.

I wouldn't begrudge Niang for thinking the difference between him being a playoff contributor in Philly to becoming unplayable for Cleveland is the caveman offense we run.

Across 4 playoff series in Philly, Niang averaged fewer than 5 points per game. He averaged around 16 3-point attempts per series. He got 15 attempts in the first series against Orlando and 2.8 ppg.

Basically, if he shot 40% in that series, you can expect another 2 ppg which comes nowhere near offsetting what he gives up in those 15 minutes. Also, he had a stinker series for Philly where he only shot 16% from 3 so he's perfectly capable of them in a different offense.

[JujitsuFlip]

Given that Allen played through an initial rib injury before Wagner "pierced" his rib, I'm going to assume Allen was both a) in a lot of pain and b) at continued risk of further injury.

Allen consistently gets positioning within three feet of the basket with opportunities to score. You aren't gifted those. The other team doesn't just let you have them.

That is news to me. Yeah, they tried to give him something for the pain.

To the last part, who cares? It still clogs up the lane and makes the offense clunky. You can't have 2 guys simultaneously standing in the dunker position on either side of the lane. It is 2024, time to modernize the offense.

After firing Bickerstaff, or he will still find ways to clog up the paint ...

Making everything harder on offense AND defense comes at a cost and I think we're seeing a mini coup over it this off-season. We have to play harder in order to cover-up the lack of spacing in our offense and the lack of perimeter length in our defense and this leads to fatigue, and fatigue can lead to injury and lower individual stats ... which is ultimately $$$ and angry calls from agents.

Can you think of a player on the team who wouldn't look better offensively playing in more space?

To make matters worse for those who think our starting 5 could work, the lineup data from this season says they were just mediocre and our best lineups featured only one of Allen or Mobley. The playoff lineup data has no good news in it, either.

There's a case to be made to completely blow up the roster so we can go 5 out with enough length all around so we can still survive in the paint and on the boards when our "bigs" are away from the basket.

I'm honestly shocked they didn't fire jb yet. To me, it seems they're probably going to keep him, unfortunately. Which hence why Allen who intentionally sat out would be the guy who is most rumored to be moved by draft night.

[jbk1234]

That is news to me. Yeah, they tried to give him something for the pain.

To the last part, who cares? It still clogs up the lane and makes the offense clunky. You can't have 2 guys simultaneously standing in the dunker position on either side of the lane. It is 2024, time to modernize the offense.

After firing Bickerstaff, or he will still find ways to clog up the paint ...

Making everything harder on offense AND defense comes at a cost and I think we're seeing a mini coup over it this off-season. We have to play harder in order to cover-up the lack of spacing in our offense and the lack of perimeter length in our defense and this leads to fatigue, and fatigue can lead to injury and lower individual stats ... which is ultimately $$$ and angry calls from agents.

Can you think of a player on the team who wouldn't look better offensively playing in more space?

To make matters worse for those who think our starting 5 could work, the lineup data from this season says they were just mediocre and our best lineups featured only one of Allen or Mobley. The playoff lineup data has no good news in it, either.

There's a case to be made to completely blow up the roster so we can go 5 out with enough length all around so we can still survive in the paint and on the boards when our "bigs" are away from the basket.

I'm honestly shocked they didn't fire jb yet. To me, it seems they're probably going to keep him, unfortunately. Which hence why Allen who intentionally sat out would be the guy who is most rumored to be moved by draft night.

The only defense I have is that they fired Brown and LBJ left anyway. They may be waiting for Mitchell to actually ink that extension. If Allen and Mitchell end up going out, maybe you're a young team again.

[JujitsuFlip]

After firing Bickerstaff, or he will still find ways to clog up the paint ...

Making everything harder on offense AND defense comes at a cost and I think we're seeing a mini coup over it this off-season. We have to play harder in order to cover-up the lack of spacing in our offense and the lack of perimeter length in our defense and this leads to fatigue, and fatigue can lead to injury and lower individual stats ... which is ultimately $$$ and angry calls from agents.

Can you think of a player on the team who wouldn't look better offensively playing in more space?

To make matters worse for those who think our starting 5 could work, the lineup data from this season says they were just mediocre and our best lineups featured only one of Allen or Mobley. The playoff lineup data has no good news in it, either.

There's a case to be made to completely blow up the roster so we can go 5 out with enough length all around so we can still survive in the paint and on the boards when our "bigs" are away from the basket.

I'm honestly shocked they didn't fire jb yet. To me, it seems they're probably going to keep him, unfortunately. Which hence why Allen who intentionally sat out would be the guy who is most rumored to be moved by draft night.

The only defense I have is that they fired Brown and LBJ left anyway. They may be waiting for Mitchell to actually ink that extension. If Allen and Mitchell end up going out, maybe you're a young team again.

You could be right but the timing is gonna look awful if they fire jb in July.

That means he already had input on pick #20, at minimum.

At max he had input on #20, the next MLE guy, and any potetinal trades.

I'd say if jb is on the roster by the arbitrary date of June 1st, then he is who will be HC for next season.

[jbk1234]

I'm honestly shocked they didn't fire jb yet. To me, it seems they're probably going to keep him, unfortunately. Which hence why Allen who intentionally sat out would be the guy who is most rumored to be moved by draft night.

The only defense I have is that they fired Brown and LBJ left anyway. They may be waiting for Mitchell to actually ink that extension. If Allen and Mitchell end up going out, maybe you're a young team again.

You could be right but the timing is gonna look awful if they fire jb in July.

That means he already had input on pick #20, at minimum.

At max he had input on #20, the next MLE guy, and any potetinal trades.

I'd say if jb is on the roster by the arbitrary date of June 1st, then he is who will be HC for next season.

I wouldn't assume that JB had any input, at all, since the season ended.

[JonFromVA]

That is news to me. Yeah, they tried to give him something for the pain.

To the last part, who cares? It still clogs up the lane and makes the offense clunky. You can't have 2 guys simultaneously standing in the dunker position on either side of the lane. It is 2024, time to modernize the offense.

After firing Bickerstaff, or he will still find ways to clog up the paint ...

Making everything harder on offense AND defense comes at a cost and I think we're seeing a mini coup over it this off-season. We have to play harder in order to cover-up the lack of spacing in our offense and the lack of perimeter length in our defense and this leads to fatigue, and fatigue can lead to injury and lower individual stats ... which is ultimately $$$ and angry calls from agents.

Can you think of a player on the team who wouldn't look better offensively playing in more space?

To make matters worse for those who think our starting 5 could work, the lineup data from this season says they were just mediocre and our best lineups featured only one of Allen or Mobley. The playoff lineup data has no good news in it, either.

There's a case to be made to completely blow up the roster so we can go 5 out with enough length all around so we can still survive in the paint and on the boards when our "bigs" are away from the basket.

I'm honestly shocked they didn't fire jb yet. To me, it seems they're probably going to keep him, unfortunately. Which hence why Allen who intentionally sat out would be the guy who is most rumored to be moved by draft night.

Presumably there's a sequence of events where they can imagine wanting to keep him. I've cautioned not only could we do worse than Bickerstaff, but we might have problems recruiting a coach with these roster question marks and klunkiness unresolved.

It's starting to get unfair to JBB, though.

I suppose we could always speed-dial our Senior Basketball Advisor and see what he thinks....

[JujitsuFlip]

The only defense I have is that they fired Brown and LBJ left anyway. They may be waiting for Mitchell to actually ink that extension. If Allen and Mitchell end up going out, maybe you're a young team again.

You could be right but the timing is gonna look awful if they fire jb in July.

That means he already had input on pick #20, at minimum.

At max he had input on #20, the next MLE guy, and any potetinal trades.

I'd say if jb is on the roster by the arbitrary date of June 1st, then he is who will be HC for next season.

I wouldn't assume that JB had any input, at all, since the season ended.

If they keep him on the roster until Mitchell decides to extend or not he is going to have input on the draft, trades, and free agency. Just like if he's fired tomorrow a new coach would have input in those areas.

[jbk1234]

After firing Bickerstaff, or he will still find ways to clog up the paint ...

Making everything harder on offense AND defense comes at a cost and I think we're seeing a mini coup over it this off-season. We have to play harder in order to cover-up the lack of spacing in our offense and the lack of perimeter length in our defense and this leads to fatigue, and fatigue can lead to injury and lower individual stats ... which is ultimately $$$ and angry calls from agents.

Can you think of a player on the team who wouldn't look better offensively playing in more space?

To make matters worse for those who think our starting 5 could work, the lineup data from this season says they were just mediocre and our best lineups featured only one of Allen or Mobley. The playoff lineup data has no good news in it, either.

There's a case to be made to completely blow up the roster so we can go 5 out with enough length all around so we can still survive in the paint and on the boards when our "bigs" are away from the basket.

I'm honestly shocked they didn't fire jb yet. To me, it seems they're probably going to keep him, unfortunately. Which hence why Allen who intentionally sat out would be the guy who is most rumored to be moved by draft night.

Presumably there's a sequence of events where they can imagine wanting to keep him. I've cautioned not only could we do worse than Bickerstaff, but we might have problems recruiting a coach with these roster question marks and klunkiness unresolved.

It's starting to get unfair to JBB, though.

I suppose we could always speed-dial our Senior Basketball Advisor and see what he thinks....

I feel like JB was fortunate not to get fired after that Knicks series because it looked as though he lost the team during Game 5 at home.

There's an open question in my mind as to how safe Altman's job is tbh. That piece from the Athletic made the organization and locker room out to be a Lannister family reunion. Also, the reported desire to trade Allen before draft day certainly sounds like an emotional response rather than a calculated one. It's his job to be cool and calculating. He's already got an owner who has been known to overreact and let his anger the better of him.

Also, I don't know how blindsided the organization was by the Garland news, but the kid was getting dogpiled by the fans and local media (looking at Fedor specifically) coming off an injury, and it would've been great if someone from within that organization countered that publicly.

The Cavs are about to blow up the best (non-LBJ) team they've had since Daugherty, Nance, and Price with no guarantee that they'll be better, or closer to a Championship, after the upcoming trades. Someone above Altman on the organizational chart should certainly be asking how sure everyone is about what the Cavs are doing.

[JujitsuFlip]

After firing Bickerstaff, or he will still find ways to clog up the paint ...

Making everything harder on offense AND defense comes at a cost and I think we're seeing a mini coup over it this off-season. We have to play harder in order to cover-up the lack of spacing in our offense and the lack of perimeter length in our defense and this leads to fatigue, and fatigue can lead to injury and lower individual stats ... which is ultimately $$$ and angry calls from agents.

Can you think of a player on the team who wouldn't look better offensively playing in more space?

To make matters worse for those who think our starting 5 could work, the lineup data from this season says they were just mediocre and our best lineups featured only one of Allen or Mobley. The playoff lineup data has no good news in it, either.

There's a case to be made to completely blow up the roster so we can go 5 out with enough length all around so we can still survive in the paint and on the boards when our "bigs" are away from the basket.

I'm honestly shocked they didn't fire jb yet. To me, it seems they're probably going to keep him, unfortunately. Which hence why Allen who intentionally sat out would be the guy who is most rumored to be moved by draft night.

Presumably there's a sequence of events where they can imagine wanting to keep him. I've cautioned not only could we do worse than Bickerstaff, but we might have problems recruiting a coach with these roster question marks and klunkiness unresolved.

It's starting to get unfair to JBB, though.

I suppose we could always speed-dial our Senior Basketball Advisor and see what he thinks....

Do not call Bernie, that man is probably wearing diapers and sipping his lemonade somewhere near the coast.

Honestly, i wouldn't mind to do "worse", if it meant they were building towards something more modern.

Also, a coach may look at the roster as an opportunity. The writing is on the wall that this should be a summer of retooling the roster. If I'm a new head coach to the Cavs, this would be the perfect time to climb aboard and start shaping the roster as they see fit.

[toooskies]

After firing Bickerstaff, or he will still find ways to clog up the paint ...

Making everything harder on offense AND defense comes at a cost and I think we're seeing a mini coup over it this off-season. We have to play harder in order to cover-up the lack of spacing in our offense and the lack of perimeter length in our defense and this leads to fatigue, and fatigue can lead to injury and lower individual stats ... which is ultimately $$$ and angry calls from agents.

Can you think of a player on the team who wouldn't look better offensively playing in more space?

To make matters worse for those who think our starting 5 could work, the lineup data from this season says they were just mediocre and our best lineups featured only one of Allen or Mobley. The playoff lineup data has no good news in it, either.

There's a case to be made to completely blow up the roster so we can go 5 out with enough length all around so we can still survive in the paint and on the boards when our "bigs" are away from the basket.

I'm honestly shocked they didn't fire jb yet. To me, it seems they're probably going to keep him, unfortunately. Which hence why Allen who intentionally sat out would be the guy who is most rumored to be moved by draft night.

The only defense I have is that they fired Brown and LBJ left anyway. They may be waiting for Mitchell to actually ink that extension. If Allen and Mitchell end up going out, maybe you're a young team again.

As much as firing JBB would make everyone happy because everyone has nits to pick with his process, it's undeniable that the Cavs reached the expectations of the team that were set in the preseason.

We were only 2.5 games under our preseason over-under-- 48 wins is a tremendous number given the injuries we had.

We won in the first round of the playoffs despite having a clearly limited Mitchell early in the series and losing Allen for the end of the series.

We didn't embarrass ourselves against Boston.

We have a good chance of keeping Mitchell due to our performance, which is the ultimate benchmark of a successful season. (Although Rich Paul souring Garland on the idea of them both being here might ruin that.)

On the concept of why we shouldn't break up Mobley and Allen, here's a table of Allen's postseason 2-man lineup combinations, to show when he played well with others:

Rk	Lineup	MP	PTS
1	J. Allen D. Mitchell	123:30	-6.0
2	J. Allen M. Strus	111:50	-7.9
3	J. Allen D. Garland	81:59	-14.6
4	J. Allen E. Mobley	80:06	0.0
5	J. Allen C. LeVert	47:51	-2.6

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 5/20/2024.

Mobley + Allen worked better than with Allen combining with any other starter. (The Georges Niang/Marcus Morris effect.)

[jbk1234]

I'm honestly shocked they didn't fire jb yet. To me, it seems they're probably going to keep him, unfortunately. Which hence why Allen who intentionally sat out would be the guy who is most rumored to be moved by draft night.

The only defense I have is that they fired Brown and LBJ left anyway. They may be waiting for Mitchell to actually ink that extension. If Allen and Mitchell end up going out, maybe you're a young team again.

As much as firing JBB would make everyone happy because everyone has nits to pick with his process, it's undeniable that the Cavs reached the expectations of the team that were set in the preseason.

We were only 2.5 games under our preseason over-under-- 48 wins is a tremendous number given the injuries we had.

We won in the first round of the playoffs despite having a clearly limited Mitchell early in the series and losing Allen for the end of the series.

We didn't embarrass ourselves against Boston.

We have a good chance of keeping Mitchell due to our performance, which is the ultimate benchmark of a successful season. (Although Rich Paul souring Garland on the idea of them both being here might ruin that.)

On the concept of why we shouldn't break up Mobley and Allen, here's a table of Allen's postseason 2-man lineup combinations, to show when he played well with others:

Rk	Lineup	MP	PTS
1	J. Allen D. Mitchell	123:30	-6.0
2	J. Allen M. Strus	111:50	-7.9
3	J. Allen D. Garland	81:59	-14.6
4	J. Allen E. Mobley	80:06	0.0
5	J. Allen C. LeVert	47:51	-2.6

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 5/20/2024.

Mobley + Allen worked better than with Allen combining with any other starter. (The Georges Niang/Marcus Morris effect.)

I mean one of my expectations, just me personally, was that he wouldn't piss off the players so badly that our team imploded after a second round out.

[toooskies]

The only defense I have is that they fired Brown and LBJ left anyway. They may be waiting for Mitchell to actually ink that extension. If Allen and Mitchell end up going out, maybe you're a young team again.

As much as firing JBB would make everyone happy because everyone has nits to pick with his process, it's undeniable that the Cavs reached the expectations of the team that were set in the preseason.

We were only 2.5 games under our preseason over-under-- 48 wins is a tremendous number given the injuries we had.

We won in the first round of the playoffs despite having a clearly limited Mitchell early in the series and losing Allen for the end of the series.

We didn't embarrass ourselves against Boston.

We have a good chance of keeping Mitchell due to our performance, which is the ultimate benchmark of a successful season. (Although Rich Paul souring Garland on the idea of them both being here might ruin that.)

On the concept of why we shouldn't break up Mobley and Allen, here's a table of Allen's postseason 2-man lineup combinations, to show when he played well with others:

Rk	Lineup	MP	PTS
1	J. Allen D. Mitchell	123:30	-6.0
2	J. Allen M. Strus	111:50	-7.9
3	J. Allen D. Garland	81:59	-14.6
4	J. Allen E. Mobley	80:06	0.0
5	J. Allen C. LeVert	47:51	-2.6

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 5/20/2024.

Mobley + Allen worked better than with Allen combining with any other starter. (The Georges Niang/Marcus Morris effect.)

I mean one of my expectations, just me personally, was that he wouldn't piss off the players so badly that our team imploded after a second round out.

I think that's more clickbait and agent agendas. Outside of Rich Paul confirming he's Rich Paul (with plenty of language couching it as "may" or "have a conversation" rather than trade demands), pretty much everything I read is "executives around the league expect" and "the Cavs may need to consider" and not the team actually blowing up.

I mean, let's say Donovan Mitchell was frustrated at Jarrett Allen for not playing due to injury. Then Mitchell sits out games 4 and 5 against the Celtics due to injury, possibly from over-stressing himself while his knee wasn't 100%. Does he have a better understanding now?

If it wasn't Mitchell who was frustrated-- let's say it was Max Strus-- does the chemistry of the team fall apart? Maybe Georges Niang wanted Allen to come back so he could stop embarrassing himself out there?

Because it's mostly from an article that was ready to publish the moment the series ended (and led with events in December), we don't know how the season's end actually affected things. Garland might reconsider his him-or-me trades after going 4/17 and showing that the problem might just be that he wasn't able to beat Al Horford at the rim this year. Mitchell's been nothing but positive and calling out Fedor for falsely reporting that he was frustrated.

Rumors are just that, and the Cavs are in a much better situation to tell what's real and significant and what's not. Maybe it's all as bad as reported-- maybe it's just a bit too much dirty laundry from an agent who's getting greedy.

[JujitsuFlip]

I'm honestly shocked they didn't fire jb yet. To me, it seems they're probably going to keep him, unfortunately. Which hence why Allen who intentionally sat out would be the guy who is most rumored to be moved by draft night.

The only defense I have is that they fired Brown and LBJ left anyway. They may be waiting for Mitchell to actually ink that extension. If Allen and Mitchell end up going out, maybe you're a young team again.

As much as firing JBB would make everyone happy because everyone has nits to pick with his process, it's undeniable that the Cavs reached the expectations of the team that were set in the preseason.

We were only 2.5 games under our preseason over-under-- 48 wins is a tremendous number given the injuries we had.

We won in the first round of the playoffs despite having a clearly limited Mitchell early in the series and losing Allen for the end of the series.

We didn't embarrass ourselves against Boston.

We have a good chance of keeping Mitchell due to our performance, which is the ultimate benchmark of a successful season. (Although Rich Paul souring Garland on the idea of them both being here might ruin that.)

On the concept of why we shouldn't break up Mobley and Allen, here's a table of Allen's postseason 2-man lineup combinations, to show when he played well with others:

Rk	Lineup	MP	PTS
1	J. Allen D. Mitchell	123:30	-6.0
2	J. Allen M. Strus	111:50	-7.9
3	J. Allen D. Garland	81:59	-14.6
4	J. Allen E. Mobley	80:06	0.0
5	J. Allen C. LeVert	47:51	-2.6

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 5/20/2024.

Mobley + Allen worked better than with Allen combining with any other starter. (The Georges Niang/Marcus Morris effect.)

The question you gotta ask yourself and that the Cavs I'm sure are contemplating is... Do you want Garland or Mitchell? Do you want jb or Allen?

[JonFromVA]

I'm honestly shocked they didn't fire jb yet. To me, it seems they're probably going to keep him, unfortunately. Which hence why Allen who intentionally sat out would be the guy who is most rumored to be moved by draft night.

Presumably there's a sequence of events where they can imagine wanting to keep him. I've cautioned not only could we do worse than Bickerstaff, but we might have problems recruiting a coach with these roster question marks and klunkiness unresolved.

It's starting to get unfair to JBB, though.

I suppose we could always speed-dial our Senior Basketball Advisor and see what he thinks....

I feel like JB was fortunate not to get fired after that Knicks series because it looked as though he lost the team during Game 5 at home.

There's an open question in my mind as to how safe Altman's job is tbh. That piece from the Athletic made the organization and locker room out to be a Lannister family reunion. Also, the reported desire to trade Allen before draft day certainly sounds like an emotional response rather than a calculated one. It's his job to be cool and calculating. He's already got an owner who has been known to overreact and let his anger the better of him.

Also, I don't know how blindsided the organization was by the Garland news, but the kid was getting dogpiled by the fans and local media (looking at Fedor specifically) coming off an injury, and it would've been great if someone from within that organization countered that publicly.

The Cavs are about to blow up the best (non-LBJ) team they've had since Daugherty, Nance, and Price with no guarantee that they'll be better, or closer to a Championship, after the upcoming trades. Someone above Altman on the organizational chart should certainly be asking how sure everyone is about what the Cavs are doing.

Just a reminder here, but Altman is the guy higher up on the org chart who's supposed to be sanity checking what we're doing ... Mike Gansey has been our GM for over 2 years now. And did I mention we have a Senior Basketball Advisor in the organization?

[JonFromVA]

As much as firing JBB would make everyone happy because everyone has nits to pick with his process, it's undeniable that the Cavs reached the expectations of the team that were set in the preseason.

We were only 2.5 games under our preseason over-under-- 48 wins is a tremendous number given the injuries we had.

We won in the first round of the playoffs despite having a clearly limited Mitchell early in the series and losing Allen for the end of the series.

We didn't embarrass ourselves against Boston.

We have a good chance of keeping Mitchell due to our performance, which is the ultimate benchmark of a successful season. (Although Rich Paul souring Garland on the idea of them both being here might ruin that.)

On the concept of why we shouldn't break up Mobley and Allen, here's a table of Allen's postseason 2-man lineup combinations, to show when he played well with others:

Rk	Lineup	MP	PTS
1	J. Allen D. Mitchell	123:30	-6.0
2	J. Allen M. Strus	111:50	-7.9
3	J. Allen D. Garland	81:59	-14.6
4	J. Allen E. Mobley	80:06	0.0
5	J. Allen C. LeVert	47:51	-2.6

Provided by Basketball-Reference.com: View Original Table
Generated 5/20/2024.

Mobley + Allen worked better than with Allen combining with any other starter. (The Georges Niang/Marcus Morris effect.)

I mean one of my expectations, just me personally, was that he wouldn't piss off the players so badly that our team imploded after a second round out.

I think that's more clickbait and agent agendas. Outside of Rich Paul confirming he's Rich Paul (with plenty of language couching it as "may" or "have a conversation" rather than trade demands), pretty much everything I read is "executives around the league expect" and "the Cavs may need to consider" and not the team actually blowing up.

I mean, let's say Donovan Mitchell was frustrated at Jarrett Allen for not playing due to injury. Then Mitchell sits out games 4 and 5 against the Celtics due to injury, possibly from over-stressing himself while his knee wasn't 100%. Does he have a better understanding now?

If it wasn't Mitchell who was frustrated-- let's say it was Max Strus-- does the chemistry of the team fall apart? Maybe Georges Niang wanted Allen to come back so he could stop embarrassing himself out there?

Because it's mostly from an article that was ready to publish the moment the series ended (and led with events in December), we don't know how the season's end actually affected things. Garland might reconsider his him-or-me trades after going 4/17 and showing that the problem might just be that he wasn't able to beat Al Horford at the rim this year. Mitchell's been nothing but positive and calling out Fedor for falsely reporting that he was frustrated.

Rumors are just that, and the Cavs are in a much better situation to tell what's real and significant and what's not. Maybe it's all as bad as reported-- maybe it's just a bit too much dirty laundry from an agent who's getting greedy.

There are problems. The only question is how we're going to need to go about cleaning them up and how many heads need to roll in the process.

Mitchell is still under contract to the Cavaliers and even after being traded by the Jazz he was still insisting to any reporter that would listen that he thought they could have worked things out in Utah with him and Rudy.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://hothothoops.com/2024/05/20/report-cleveland-cavaliers-ask-tyler-herro-jaime-jaquez-jr-donovan-mitchell-trade-miami-heat/

If Mitchell refuses to extend, i think a package starting around Jaquez and Herro is a good jumping point. They can start the 2 and 3.