Trade Ideas

[JonFromVA]

I don't hate him, but he was unplayable in the playoffs and that, coupled with the Denver game, concerns me. No amount of preparation is going to change the fact that he simply lacks the physical attributes to handle guys like Isaac and Watson.

And yet, if we play to his strengths (aka get him good looks and using his gravity) and he's making his shots, everything can (and would have) looked very different.

Even if I were to grant all of that, and you're asking a lot of the Cavs to game plan around the 10th guy in the rotation in a playoff series, not one thing would've changed on the defensive end (or with respect to rebounding). Like most role players, Niang is a tool in the tool box and he's not suitable for every job. If a role player is getting killed in a specific matchup, subbing in a different role player is almost always the correct answer.

Game plan? It's not about game plan, it's about our scheme. And the most powerful weapon in our scheme is our 3pt shooting which Georges contributes to with his shooting, his passing, and his gravity.

If Kenny doesn't keep playing 9 or 10 guys in the playoffs, I'll be quite surprised.

[axeman23]

I was looking at something with Charlotte, help them bottom out for the better pick. Something along the lines of Niang, Merrill (exp), CPJ for Nick Richards, Cody Martin, and Seth Curry. Seth may only be of use situationally, but imagine a play-off game where him, Garland, and Mitchell are on the floor for a final offensive possession with Mobley and Allen, tied, or 1 or 2 behind. WHO does the opposition double/leave open from the 3 three-pt threats? Can't double 3 players, and if u even try to have a 4th wandering defender, that leaves Mobley and/or Allen open in the low post. Or even use Wade as the screener, Mobley as the in-bounder who immediately ducks for the key, presumably 1v1...

Richards is 7'0, 240, and at 27, not a corpse. And Cody is another 6'5, to 6'6, "SF by committee". This also prevents the NEED for Wade to bang down low with bigger centres, which should, in theory, leave him healthier. We also take on no bad money we didn't already have. Maybe we sent them the 27 2nd from Denver/some cash for a Merrill buy-out?

[KuruptedCav]

I was looking at something with Charlotte, help them bottom out for the better pick. Something along the lines of Niang, Merrill (exp), CPJ for Nick Richards, Cody Martin, and Seth Curry. Seth may only be of use situationally, but imagine a play-off game where him, Garland, and Mitchell are on the floor for a final offensive possession with Mobley and Allen, tied, or 1 or 2 behind. WHO does the opposition double/leave open from the 3 three-pt threats? Can't double 3 players, and if u even try to have a 4th wandering defender, that leaves Mobley and/or Allen open in the low post. Or even use Wade as the screener, Mobley as the in-bounder who immediately ducks for the key, presumably 1v1...

Richards is 7'0, 240, and at 27, not a corpse. And Cody is another 6'5, to 6'6, "SF by committee". This also prevents the NEED for Wade to bang down low with bigger centres, which should, in theory, leave him healthier. We also take on no bad money we didn't already have. Maybe we sent them the 27 2nd from Denver/some cash for a Merrill buy-out?

That’s a lot of moving parts and shooting going out on a team that’s running smooth. I think Curry is a shorter Merrill at this point. Martin would struggle for time behind Strus, Okoro and Jerome:

Can we simplify to:
1) Release Thompson from his non-gtd contract
2) Trade MLE + 2nd Rd Pick for Richards

Saves Charlotte money as they are well into the tax and creates a hole in the middle to aid the tank. Should keep Cavs under the 1st apron.


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[toooskies]

And yet, if we play to his strengths (aka get him good looks and using his gravity) and he's making his shots, everything can (and would have) looked very different.

Even if I were to grant all of that, and you're asking a lot of the Cavs to game plan around the 10th guy in the rotation in a playoff series, not one thing would've changed on the defensive end (or with respect to rebounding). Like most role players, Niang is a tool in the tool box and he's not suitable for every job. If a role player is getting killed in a specific matchup, subbing in a different role player is almost always the correct answer.

Game plan? It's not about game plan, it's about our scheme. And the most powerful weapon in our scheme is our 3pt shooting which Georges contributes to with his shooting, his passing, and his gravity.

If Kenny doesn't keep playing 9 or 10 guys in the playoffs, I'll be quite surprised.

I'd also note that Niang is the backup plan to Wade in the playoffs, at least when there's an athletic 4 out there. That might shift slightly if we also have a bigger 3 to guard, but very few teams have multiple athletic forwards to throw at us in bench lineups.

The other thing being that even if Niang is our backup PF, often we'll be able to switch Niang onto a backup C fairly often defensively and let Mobley/Allen handle the athletic 4, that just doesn't hold true against Jokic.

[JonFromVA]

Even if I were to grant all of that, and you're asking a lot of the Cavs to game plan around the 10th guy in the rotation in a playoff series, not one thing would've changed on the defensive end (or with respect to rebounding). Like most role players, Niang is a tool in the tool box and he's not suitable for every job. If a role player is getting killed in a specific matchup, subbing in a different role player is almost always the correct answer.

Game plan? It's not about game plan, it's about our scheme. And the most powerful weapon in our scheme is our 3pt shooting which Georges contributes to with his shooting, his passing, and his gravity.

If Kenny doesn't keep playing 9 or 10 guys in the playoffs, I'll be quite surprised.

I'd also note that Niang is the backup plan to Wade in the playoffs, at least when there's an athletic 4 out there. That might shift slightly if we also have a bigger 3 to guard, but very few teams have multiple athletic forwards to throw at us in bench lineups.

The other thing being that even if Niang is our backup PF, often we'll be able to switch Niang onto a backup C fairly often defensively and let Mobley/Allen handle the athletic 4, that just doesn't hold true against Jokic.

Who we play should depend on who's making their shots and and part of enabling players to make their shots is to keep them rested and not let their legs get tired.

For example, against the Lakers we let Austin Reaves drive by our defenders and score 35 pts on 20 shots with 10 assists because we didn't want to get unattached from Davis. On the second night of a road back to back that usually spells doom, but we still managed to shoot 40% on our 3pters while launching 45 of them.

JJ Reddick admitted in his post game that the Lakers had to play near perfect to beat the Cavs. Did we play perfect? Oh no, not even close.

So, we just have to make sure we can stick to our style of play in the playoffs even when the best teams and coaches are trying their best to prepare for us, slow us down, grind us out, etc. If they pull that off, then we can talk about contingencies like dusting off Tristan if we need more toughness, or playing Dean and Isaac more minutes than Niang or Merrill.

Maybe even dust off Tyson if he can keep making some progress.

We don't have to play just one style and we will have to compensate for injuries and foul trouble, but part of building a culture and an identity is sticking with what makes you great and making the adjustments you have to make so you can keep doing it.

Yes, technically benching Niang is an adjustment we might decide to make, but the more clever thing to do is to find the weakness in the opponents strategy or to add some new plays that the opponent hasn't scouted out. In other words, I'm putting a lot of my hopes in our coaching staff.

[jbk1234]

Even if I were to grant all of that, and you're asking a lot of the Cavs to game plan around the 10th guy in the rotation in a playoff series, not one thing would've changed on the defensive end (or with respect to rebounding). Like most role players, Niang is a tool in the tool box and he's not suitable for every job. If a role player is getting killed in a specific matchup, subbing in a different role player is almost always the correct answer.

Game plan? It's not about game plan, it's about our scheme. And the most powerful weapon in our scheme is our 3pt shooting which Georges contributes to with his shooting, his passing, and his gravity.

If Kenny doesn't keep playing 9 or 10 guys in the playoffs, I'll be quite surprised.

I'd also note that Niang is the backup plan to Wade in the playoffs, at least when there's an athletic 4 out there. That might shift slightly if we also have a bigger 3 to guard, but very few teams have multiple athletic forwards to throw at us in bench lineups.

The other thing being that even if Niang is our backup PF, often we'll be able to switch Niang onto a backup C fairly often defensively and let Mobley/Allen handle the athletic 4, that just doesn't hold true against Jokic.

I'm pretty skeptical Niang at the 5 will work out in all but a handful of matchups. Just as an initial matter, we're not sliding Allen over to PF when Mobley rests. Allen is going to stay at center. Love's response to lacking the athleticism to offer rim protection was to guard the restricted area and either draw a charge or let the player go. Niang's is to foul.

I don't know how often we'll see some combination of Mitchell, Garland, Merrill, and/or Jerome in the postseason, but they won't be going against true bench units in the playoffs. The opponent is going to shorten their rotation. Someone is going to be tasked with guarding a good player. The 1-5 high PNR is probably the most common offensive set in the NBA. Niang lacks the ability to recover from out there and/or deny a lob.

One of Okoro or Strus (perhaps both) will have to be in the second unit, which will involve sacrifing some shooting/gravity, or it's going to be a layup drill. Finally, if that's going to be the plan, they should do it against playoff teams and see how it works in the regular season so we don't find out whether it works, or not, for the first time in the playoffs. I feel the same way about getting Thor real run the next time Niang has a bad matchup.

[toooskies]

Game plan? It's not about game plan, it's about our scheme. And the most powerful weapon in our scheme is our 3pt shooting which Georges contributes to with his shooting, his passing, and his gravity.

If Kenny doesn't keep playing 9 or 10 guys in the playoffs, I'll be quite surprised.

I'd also note that Niang is the backup plan to Wade in the playoffs, at least when there's an athletic 4 out there. That might shift slightly if we also have a bigger 3 to guard, but very few teams have multiple athletic forwards to throw at us in bench lineups.

The other thing being that even if Niang is our backup PF, often we'll be able to switch Niang onto a backup C fairly often defensively and let Mobley/Allen handle the athletic 4, that just doesn't hold true against Jokic.

I'm pretty skeptical Niang at the 5 will work out in all but a handful of matchups. Just as an initial matter, we're not sliding Allen over to PF when Mobley rests. Allen is going to stay at center. Love's response to lacking the athleticism to offer rim protection was to guard the restricted area and either draw a charge or let the player go. Niang's is to foul.

I don't know how often we'll see some combination of Mitchell, Garland, Merrill, and/or Jerome in the postseason, but they won't be going against true bench units in the playoffs. The opponent is going to shorten their rotation. Someone is going to be tasked with guarding a good player. The 1-5 high PNR is probably the most common offensive set in the NBA. Niang lacks the ability to recover from out there and/or deny a lob.

One of Okoro or Strus (perhaps both) will have to be in the second unit, which will involve sacrifing some shooting/gravity, or it's going to be a layup drill. Finally, if that's going to be the plan, they should do it against playoff teams and see how it works in the regular season so we don't find out whether it works, or not, for the first time in the playoffs. I feel the same way about getting Thor real run the next time Niang has a bad matchup.

I think we're preparing Niang to be able to handle those matchups now in the regular season as preparation for doing it in the playoffs rather than giving minutes to Thor in what is effectively a last-resort scenario.

Thor is currently performing worse in the G-League than he did for Charlotte last year. I think we're sure he's not the guy.

My guess is we are either waiting on a trade or the buyout market to fill roster spot #15, but of more immediate concern is whether we guarantee TT's contract or trade/release him in an effort to duck the tax.

[jbk1234]

I was looking at something with Charlotte, help them bottom out for the better pick. Something along the lines of Niang, Merrill (exp), CPJ for Nick Richards, Cody Martin, and Seth Curry. Seth may only be of use situationally, but imagine a play-off game where him, Garland, and Mitchell are on the floor for a final offensive possession with Mobley and Allen, tied, or 1 or 2 behind. WHO does the opposition double/leave open from the 3 three-pt threats? Can't double 3 players, and if u even try to have a 4th wandering defender, that leaves Mobley and/or Allen open in the low post. Or even use Wade as the screener, Mobley as the in-bounder who immediately ducks for the key, presumably 1v1...

Richards is 7'0, 240, and at 27, not a corpse. And Cody is another 6'5, to 6'6, "SF by committee". This also prevents the NEED for Wade to bang down low with bigger centres, which should, in theory, leave him healthier. We also take on no bad money we didn't already have. Maybe we sent them the 27 2nd from Denver/some cash for a Merrill buy-out?

That’s a lot of moving parts and shooting going out on a team that’s running smooth. I think Curry is a shorter Merrill at this point. Martin would struggle for time behind Strus, Okoro and Jerome:

Can we simplify to:
1) Release Thompson from his non-gtd contract
2) Trade MLE + 2nd Rd Pick for Richards

Saves Charlotte money as they are well into the tax and creates a hole in the middle to aid the tank. Should keep Cavs under the 1st apron.


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Richards makes $5M. I'm not sure what you're proposing is legal under the CBA. The cap hold for TT's roster spot still applies even if we cut him. I don't know that the Cavs duck the tax with the first move and I don't believe you can absorb a player with the tax MLE. I think you have to be a non taxpayer to use your MLE for that purpose.

I like Merrill, and players' contract expectations for next summer certainly should inform the Cavs decision making, but if we can only keep one of LeVert, Merrill, or Ty Jerome next summer, I'm keeping Jerome.

If the Cavs want to balance the roster and duck the tax, I'd target Boucher, package Merrill, Niang, and a second.

[KuruptedCav]

I was looking at something with Charlotte, help them bottom out for the better pick. Something along the lines of Niang, Merrill (exp), CPJ for Nick Richards, Cody Martin, and Seth Curry. Seth may only be of use situationally, but imagine a play-off game where him, Garland, and Mitchell are on the floor for a final offensive possession with Mobley and Allen, tied, or 1 or 2 behind. WHO does the opposition double/leave open from the 3 three-pt threats? Can't double 3 players, and if u even try to have a 4th wandering defender, that leaves Mobley and/or Allen open in the low post. Or even use Wade as the screener, Mobley as the in-bounder who immediately ducks for the key, presumably 1v1...

Richards is 7'0, 240, and at 27, not a corpse. And Cody is another 6'5, to 6'6, "SF by committee". This also prevents the NEED for Wade to bang down low with bigger centres, which should, in theory, leave him healthier. We also take on no bad money we didn't already have. Maybe we sent them the 27 2nd from Denver/some cash for a Merrill buy-out?

That’s a lot of moving parts and shooting going out on a team that’s running smooth. I think Curry is a shorter Merrill at this point. Martin would struggle for time behind Strus, Okoro and Jerome:

Can we simplify to:
1) Release Thompson from his non-gtd contract
2) Trade MLE + 2nd Rd Pick for Richards

Saves Charlotte money as they are well into the tax and creates a hole in the middle to aid the tank. Should keep Cavs under the 1st apron.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Richards makes $5M. I'm not sure what you're proposing is legal under the CBA. The cap hold for TT's roster spot still applies even if we cut him. I don't know that the Cavs duck the tax with the first move and I don't believe you can absorb a player with the tax MLE. I think you have to be a non taxpayer to use your MLE for that purpose.

I like Merrill, and players' contract expectations for next summer certainly should inform the Cavs decision making, but if we can only keep one of LeVert, Merrill, or Ty Jerome next summer, I'm keeping Jerome.

If the Cavs want to balance the roster and duck the tax, I'd target Boucher, package Merrill, Niang, and a second.

Got it. Didn’t realize that only the non-taxpayer MLE could be traded. Looked up and confirmed. Thanks.

Agreed on Jerome. Shooting can be developed but the extra gear and transition vision Jerome shows cannot.


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[toooskies]

That’s a lot of moving parts and shooting going out on a team that’s running smooth. I think Curry is a shorter Merrill at this point. Martin would struggle for time behind Strus, Okoro and Jerome:

Can we simplify to:
1) Release Thompson from his non-gtd contract
2) Trade MLE + 2nd Rd Pick for Richards

Saves Charlotte money as they are well into the tax and creates a hole in the middle to aid the tank. Should keep Cavs under the 1st apron.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Richards makes $5M. I'm not sure what you're proposing is legal under the CBA. The cap hold for TT's roster spot still applies even if we cut him. I don't know that the Cavs duck the tax with the first move and I don't believe you can absorb a player with the tax MLE. I think you have to be a non taxpayer to use your MLE for that purpose.

I like Merrill, and players' contract expectations for next summer certainly should inform the Cavs decision making, but if we can only keep one of LeVert, Merrill, or Ty Jerome next summer, I'm keeping Jerome.

If the Cavs want to balance the roster and duck the tax, I'd target Boucher, package Merrill, Niang, and a second.

Got it. Didn’t realize that only the non-taxpayer MLE could be traded. Looked up and confirmed. Thanks.

Agreed on Jerome. Shooting can be developed but the extra gear and transition vision Jerome shows cannot.


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The thing is, we still qualify for the non-tax MLE despite being in the tax. It’s actually an under-first-apron MLE.

Our best tax evasion scheme is paying someone cash to take TT before his guarantee date in return for something that won’t convey, then signing a rookie into roster spot #14 for the remainder of the season. The other team cuts TT immediately and pockets cash for taking the cap hit.

Our second best scheme is paying someone more cash to take TT after his guarantee date in return for something that won’t convey, then signing a buyout guy for the remainder of the season. This takes more money as the other team will have to pay TT his remaining guaranteed salary and take a bigger cap hit.

[jbk1234]

If the Heat don't want Wiggins back in a Butler trade, the Cavs should definitely offer to facilitate. An expiring LeVert and Okoro might get it done.

[ijspeelman]

If the Heat don't want Wiggins back in a Butler trade, the Cavs should definitely offer to facilitate. An expiring LeVert and Okoro might get it done.

This feels like a weird time for the Cavs not to stand pat, but I also understand those expirings will turn into nothing if they don't/cannot resign LeVert/Merrill/Jerome.

I'm interested if Altman pulls something bold

[JujitsuFlip]

If the Heat don't want Wiggins back in a Butler trade, the Cavs should definitely offer to facilitate. An expiring LeVert and Okoro might get it done.

This feels like a weird time for the Cavs not to stand pat, but I also understand those expirings will turn into nothing if they don't/cannot resign LeVert/Merrill/Jerome.

I'm interested if Altman pulls something bold

I personally would stand pat, all 14 guys can stay, imo.

[toooskies]

If the Heat don't want Wiggins back in a Butler trade, the Cavs should definitely offer to facilitate. An expiring LeVert and Okoro might get it done.

This feels like a weird time for the Cavs not to stand pat, but I also understand those expirings will turn into nothing if they don't/cannot resign LeVert/Merrill/Jerome.

I'm interested if Altman pulls something bold

I personally would stand pat, all 14 guys can stay, imo.

We will either duck the tax by moving TT or make a buyout signing. No reason not to do one or the other.

[JujitsuFlip]

This feels like a weird time for the Cavs not to stand pat, but I also understand those expirings will turn into nothing if they don't/cannot resign LeVert/Merrill/Jerome.

I'm interested if Altman pulls something bold

I personally would stand pat, all 14 guys can stay, imo.

We will either duck the tax by moving TT or make a buyout signing. No reason not to do one or the other.

Morris and Green joined really late in the season, i don't expect spot 15 to be filled any time soon.

[JonFromVA]

This feels like a weird time for the Cavs not to stand pat, but I also understand those expirings will turn into nothing if they don't/cannot resign LeVert/Merrill/Jerome.

I'm interested if Altman pulls something bold

I personally would stand pat, all 14 guys can stay, imo.

We will either duck the tax by moving TT or make a buyout signing. No reason not to do one or the other.

Are you sure we can duck the tax by simply cutting TT?

According to the salary thread on RCF, TT still counts for $2M minimum salary against the tax, and thanks to the fact we still owe Rubio dead money we're $2.5M over the tax.

[toooskies]

I personally would stand pat, all 14 guys can stay, imo.

We will either duck the tax by moving TT or make a buyout signing. No reason not to do one or the other.

Are you sure we can duck the tax by simply cutting TT?

According to the salary thread on RCF, TT still counts for $2M minimum salary against the tax, and thanks to the fact we still owe Rubio dead money we're $2.5M over the tax.

If we release TT, we keep his cap hit. If we trade him, the other team gets his cap hit. Minimum contracts can be traded without the need for an exception.

If we release him before his contract fully guarantees, he only counts for a prorated amount of his full-season cap hit.

Whether Okoro hits his unlikely bonuses (which to my knowledge have not been reported publicly) matters, but spotrac has the Cavs $1.7m over the tax. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/tax

I believe the Cavs will be able to juggle 10-day minimums for rookies long enough to slide under the tax, particularly if we don’t trade TT until the deadline.

[JonFromVA]

We will either duck the tax by moving TT or make a buyout signing. No reason not to do one or the other.

Are you sure we can duck the tax by simply cutting TT?

According to the salary thread on RCF, TT still counts for $2M minimum salary against the tax, and thanks to the fact we still owe Rubio dead money we're $2.5M over the tax.

If we release TT, we keep his cap hit. If we trade him, the other team gets his cap hit. Minimum contracts can be traded without the need for an exception.

If we release him before his contract fully guarantees, he only counts for a prorated amount of his full-season cap hit.

Whether Okoro hits his unlikely bonuses (which to my knowledge have not been reported publicly) matters, but spotrac has the Cavs $1.7m over the tax. https://www.spotrac.com/nba/cleveland-cavaliers/tax

I believe the Cavs will be able to juggle 10-day minimums for rookies long enough to slide under the tax, particularly if we don’t trade TT until the deadline.

Looks like the difference in the two salary charts is Rubio's cap hit. The RCF table has not been updated to show that Rubio's cap hit was spread out over 3 seasons. So, Sportrac looks right to me. Thanks!

[JujitsuFlip]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10150765-nba-trade-rumors-knicks-shopping-jericho-sims-ahead-of-deadline-seek-2nd-round-pick

Cavs should be all over this for spot 15.

[jbk1234]

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/10150765-nba-trade-rumors-knicks-shopping-jericho-sims-ahead-of-deadline-seek-2nd-round-pick

Cavs should be all over this for spot 15.

The Knicks are pretty desperate for a backup center with Mitchell Robinson out. The fact that they're shopping Sims likely means he's not up for the job. If we're spending draft capital, Boucher is the guy I'd target. Maybe Richardson.