Trade Ideas (Part III)

[Stillwater]

No offense, but we're just not going to develop that many guys simultaneously.

Lol we already are doing that so no difference imo its sort of like the ATL is doing

[mcfly1204]

You're totally right. It's not as if you have us drafting 4 players while continuing to develop the likes of Okoro and Allen.

[Stillwater]

You're totally right. It's not as if you have us drafting 4 players while continuing to develop the likes of Okoro and Allen.

I am against trading Sexton, but if they do they have to shake it up and this kind of play going all in on the youth movement is one way that is justifiable because it inspires hope in the fanbase having a lot of promising prospects that have to compete with each other for minutes everyone giving their top effort all the time etc.
Right now DG brings a boring laid back effort mantra, Okoro needs the ball to be effective offensively, Sexton has to do too much and likes doing too much to often, Allen is about to be overpaid with no legit stretch 4 outside of a back up like Wade on the roster to pair with him etc.
Changing to a much longer defender at the 1 in Ayo who can makes plays and score is a necessity if they draft Green who has 1 " of wingspan advantage on Sexton which means nothing when he cares even less about using up energy defensively.
Green is going to be a defensive liability and so if they draft him they are faced with the same issue as they have today if they keep DG and part with Collin
too me you break up Sexland you move both if you are doing it to justify green or even suggs brought in

[Revenged25]

Honestly if the Cavs could find someway to basically hit restart on this rebuild and get Green & Mobley, they would be much better off. They can guarantee one of them, but not sure what, if anything, they could offer to get #2 from Houston, though it likely requires moving SexLand out for other assets and still not sure it'd be enough.

[toooskies]

The problem with building around young players is you don't know how good they're going to be in the end until you get to year 5 or 6, particularly if you surround your young guys with a bad roster. But you have all of years 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 to get through. The list of guys who look like all-stars in year 3 are really small. Luka and Trae are extreme outliers.

And by the way, the draft hasn't been a good predictor of top-end success in a long time. #1 picks rarely win championships on the teams they're drafted (the last two: Kyrie and Lebron, and Lebron doesn't really count). There's only two high draft picks that are on the team that drafted them and are all-NBA (Luka and Beal).

Trying to draft a superstar at the top of the draft, successfully building around him after you drafted him, and managing to not lose him is a nearly impossible task and I'd rather aim to be both very good and have assets to turn a star into a superstar. Hitting the reset button means we're that much further away from being a very good team.

[jbk1234]

in light of the idea that Sexton could be replaced by Green if the idea is to not max Sexton and he demands it or something... I propose trading both back court players now and shuffling the cards a lot...
Cavs go all in on Jalen Green not Cade or Mobley in this one trading away Sexland
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/869690/
Cavs trade Sexton and Garland;
Sexton ,2024 lottery protected 1st and 3rd overall in 21 for 1st overall,Sekou & 42nd overall
Cavs draft Jalen Green at 1.
Cavs trade DG/s&t Hartenstein to GSW for 7th overall Looney rental and J.T.Anderson
Cavs draft Kai Jones PF/C at 7 ( or could go Moody here)
Cavs trade 2 or 3 future 2nds to Denver for 26th overall
Cavs draft Ayo Dosumnu PG/SG at 26
Cavs draft PG JaQuori McLaughlin at 42.
21-22 line up
AYO Dosumnu /Okoro / JaQuori McLaughlin
Green/Okoro/Cedi
Okoro/Sekou/Prince/Kabengele/Stevens
Nance/Stevens/Wade/Jones/Toscano Anderson
Allen/Jones/Looney/Love
ideally Love medically retires or is just getting paid to stay home.
That is 15 players.
Cavs sign EJ ONu PF/C CLE native to a two way if he goes UDFA
maybe bring back BThomas or make McLaughlin a two way if they kept Dotson etc.
losses ;
Sexland
Hartenstein
Dotson
2 or 3 2022 2nds
lottery protected 1st in 2024
gains:
Green
Jones
Dosumnu
Mclaughlin
Sekou
Toscano Anderson
Looney(rental) can flip at DL

That's not remotely realistic. None of that is going to happen.

[jbk1234]

The problem with building around young players is you don't know how good they're going to be in the end until you get to year 5 or 6, particularly if you surround your young guys with a bad roster. But you have all of years 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 to get through. The list of guys who look like all-stars in year 3 are really small. Luka and Trae are extreme outliers.

And by the way, the draft hasn't been a good predictor of top-end success in a long time. #1 picks rarely win championships on the teams they're drafted (the last two: Kyrie and Lebron, and Lebron doesn't really count). There's only two high draft picks that are on the team that drafted them and are all-NBA (Luka and Beal).

Trying to draft a superstar at the top of the draft, successfully building around him after you drafted him, and managing to not lose him is a nearly impossible task and I'd rather aim to be both very good and have assets to turn a star into a superstar. Hitting the reset button means we're that much further away from being a very good team.

If you're projecting growth all the way up to age 26, that's fine. Just don't ask the team to pay max dollars for development. In terms of hitting the reset button, part of this process is asking yourself how far you can go with certain guys as main cogs. Deciding to build around the wrong guys is just as detrimental, sometimes more so, than starting over at a position.

[Revenged25]

The problem with building around young players is you don't know how good they're going to be in the end until you get to year 5 or 6, particularly if you surround your young guys with a bad roster. But you have all of years 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 to get through. The list of guys who look like all-stars in year 3 are really small. Luka and Trae are extreme outliers.

And by the way, the draft hasn't been a good predictor of top-end success in a long time. #1 picks rarely win championships on the teams they're drafted (the last two: Kyrie and Lebron, and Lebron doesn't really count). There's only two high draft picks that are on the team that drafted them and are all-NBA (Luka and Beal).

Trying to draft a superstar at the top of the draft, successfully building around him after you drafted him, and managing to not lose him is a nearly impossible task and I'd rather aim to be both very good and have assets to turn a star into a superstar. Hitting the reset button means we're that much further away from being a very good team.

To be fair, Sexton did perform at an All-Star level this year.

[Stillwater]

in light of the idea that Sexton could be replaced by Green if the idea is to not max Sexton and he demands it or something... I propose trading both back court players now and shuffling the cards a lot...
Cavs go all in on Jalen Green not Cade or Mobley in this one trading away Sexland
https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/869690/
Cavs trade Sexton and Garland;
Sexton ,2024 lottery protected 1st and 3rd overall in 21 for 1st overall,Sekou & 42nd overall
Cavs draft Jalen Green at 1.
Cavs trade DG/s&t Hartenstein to GSW for 7th overall Looney rental and J.T.Anderson
Cavs draft Kai Jones PF/C at 7 ( or could go Moody here)
Cavs trade 2 or 3 future 2nds to Denver for 26th overall
Cavs draft Ayo Dosumnu PG/SG at 26
Cavs draft PG JaQuori McLaughlin at 42.
21-22 line up
AYO Dosumnu /Okoro / JaQuori McLaughlin
Green/Okoro/Cedi
Okoro/Sekou/Prince/Kabengele/Stevens
Nance/Stevens/Wade/Jones/Toscano Anderson
Allen/Jones/Looney/Love
ideally Love medically retires or is just getting paid to stay home.
That is 15 players.
Cavs sign EJ ONu PF/C CLE native to a two way if he goes UDFA
maybe bring back BThomas or make McLaughlin a two way if they kept Dotson etc.
losses ;
Sexland
Hartenstein
Dotson
2 or 3 2022 2nds
lottery protected 1st in 2024
gains:
Green
Jones
Dosumnu
Mclaughlin
Sekou
Toscano Anderson
Looney(rental) can flip at DL

That's not remotely realistic. None of that is going to happen.

Sure it is ...lol
There is literaly nothing realistic or unrealistic with the current front office imo

[toooskies]

The problem with building around young players is you don't know how good they're going to be in the end until you get to year 5 or 6, particularly if you surround your young guys with a bad roster. But you have all of years 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 to get through. The list of guys who look like all-stars in year 3 are really small. Luka and Trae are extreme outliers.

And by the way, the draft hasn't been a good predictor of top-end success in a long time. #1 picks rarely win championships on the teams they're drafted (the last two: Kyrie and Lebron, and Lebron doesn't really count). There's only two high draft picks that are on the team that drafted them and are all-NBA (Luka and Beal).

Trying to draft a superstar at the top of the draft, successfully building around him after you drafted him, and managing to not lose him is a nearly impossible task and I'd rather aim to be both very good and have assets to turn a star into a superstar. Hitting the reset button means we're that much further away from being a very good team.

If you're projecting growth all the way up to age 26, that's fine. Just don't ask the team to pay max dollars for development. In terms of hitting the reset button, part of this process is asking yourself how far you can go with certain guys as main cogs. Deciding to build around the wrong guys is just as detrimental, sometimes more so, than starting over at a position.

Sure. You need to know when to quit. But it isn't as if Sexton and Garland were draft misses. When you have a guy who can pass and a guy you can score and a guy who can defend the paint, you need to fill the roster with good players instead of fringe G-leaguers. You need a real backup PG and a starting-caliber SF and 11 NBA-quality rotation guys, assuming 2 or 3 get hurt along the way. You need to not start a raw rookie just because you drafted him early. You need to not sabotage your starting center while acquiring an "asset".

(Still not sold on the Allen trade "win" until he's comfortably under contract next year with us, not that Drummond is a valuable NBA player at this point in his career.)

[Harper4Ferry?]

I'm totally fine with re-blowing it up as long as we have a wink wink with the league to get Chet Holmgren next draft.
Or if it's a double draft.

[mcfly1204]

I can see moving Sexton if he's not in the future plans of the organization, but I am not sure how I feel about a complete reset. Say we move Sexton for a pick, in the least, I would want to see what DG brings in the first half of the season, and if he too ends up not being in the future plans, move him before the deadline. Cleaning house this offseason just feels like too much of a gamble. As others have already noted, the draft is a gamble. In the least, Sexton and Garland are starter\rotation-caliber players.

[LivingLegend]

The problem with building around young players is you don't know how good they're going to be in the end until you get to year 5 or 6, particularly if you surround your young guys with a bad roster. But you have all of years 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 to get through. The list of guys who look like all-stars in year 3 are really small. Luka and Trae are extreme outliers.

And by the way, the draft hasn't been a good predictor of top-end success in a long time. #1 picks rarely win championships on the teams they're drafted (the last two: Kyrie and Lebron, and Lebron doesn't really count). There's only two high draft picks that are on the team that drafted them and are all-NBA (Luka and Beal).

Trying to draft a superstar at the top of the draft, successfully building around him after you drafted him, and managing to not lose him is a nearly impossible task and I'd rather aim to be both very good and have assets to turn a star into a superstar. Hitting the reset button means we're that much further away from being a very good team.

Great post, if they hit the reset button and do this all over again I will riot. The majority of good teams have grown young players organically in their system and when the time is right--added a high ticket FA. The Cavs need to keep on the path and get better in-house. They NEED guys like Garland/Sexton/Okoro/Allen/#3 to turn into better players. Even if that means moving one of them to get a better piece that fits and unlocks everyone elses potential.

I keep going back to the Utah Jazz model and their ability to sustain success for being in a small market and never being able to attract free agents. Its so dam impressive what they do over there and I want that for Cleveland.

Unfortunately what they have over there is a great leadership team, front office and coaching staff. The Cavs have none of that. They Cavs need their Andrew Berry, Kevin Stefanski and Paul Depodesta trio...

[LivingLegend]

I'm totally fine with re-blowing it up as long as we have a wink wink with the league to get Chet Holmgren next draft.
Or if it's a double draft.

Im done relying on bounces of ping pong balls. The draft is such a crap shoot its impossible to rely or plan on it getting you talent.

The Cavs have 4 really good young players, they need to focus on getting them to take a step forward and play together.

Getting rid of Collin Sexton for a top 6-10 draft pick does not make this team better. Also, going into next year with the same roster + Evan Mobley also does not make them much better.

If they trade Sexton, they need a player. They need somebody who compliments the other 3 we have. They need somebody who can help unlock the talent of others by their style of play.

[LivingLegend]

The problem with building around young players is you don't know how good they're going to be in the end until you get to year 5 or 6, particularly if you surround your young guys with a bad roster. But you have all of years 1, 2, 3, 4, and 5 to get through. The list of guys who look like all-stars in year 3 are really small. Luka and Trae are extreme outliers.

And by the way, the draft hasn't been a good predictor of top-end success in a long time. #1 picks rarely win championships on the teams they're drafted (the last two: Kyrie and Lebron, and Lebron doesn't really count). There's only two high draft picks that are on the team that drafted them and are all-NBA (Luka and Beal).

Trying to draft a superstar at the top of the draft, successfully building around him after you drafted him, and managing to not lose him is a nearly impossible task and I'd rather aim to be both very good and have assets to turn a star into a superstar. Hitting the reset button means we're that much further away from being a very good team.

To be fair, Sexton did perform at an All-Star level this year.

What are the odds Sexton takes another step forward this season? Thats the question the Cavs need to figure out. He is really good at scoring but his deficiencies have been noted. Im curious to find out if Sexton can take a big step forward in any area of his game thats not scoring.

Mostly 1) Defense 2) Playmaking 3) Situational Awareness/BBIQ

If hes is capable of turning any of those 3 weaknesses into a strength this offseason like he did his jumpshot out of college--he will be a great player

[Stillwater]

I'm totally fine with re-blowing it up as long as we have a wink wink with the league to get Chet Holmgren next draft.
Or if it's a double draft.

Im done relying on bounces of ping pong balls. The draft is such a crap shoot its impossible to rely or plan on it getting you talent.

The Cavs have 4 really good young players, they need to focus on getting them to take a step forward and play together.

Getting rid of Collin Sexton for a top 6-10 draft pick does not make this team better. Also, going into next year with the same roster + Evan Mobley also does not make them much better.

If they trade Sexton, they need a player. They need somebody who compliments the other 3 we have. They need somebody who can help unlock the talent of others by their style of play.

If CLE trades Sexton for anything less than a player giving the same production offensively it wont matter who they draft they will be back in the lottery again in 22... They need to keep the core or blow it the f up. If something is worth doing its worth doing well

[LivingLegend]

I'm totally fine with re-blowing it up as long as we have a wink wink with the league to get Chet Holmgren next draft.
Or if it's a double draft.

Im done relying on bounces of ping pong balls. The draft is such a crap shoot its impossible to rely or plan on it getting you talent.

The Cavs have 4 really good young players, they need to focus on getting them to take a step forward and play together.

Getting rid of Collin Sexton for a top 6-10 draft pick does not make this team better. Also, going into next year with the same roster + Evan Mobley also does not make them much better.

If they trade Sexton, they need a player. They need somebody who compliments the other 3 we have. They need somebody who can help unlock the talent of others by their style of play.

If CLE trades Sexton for anything less than a player giving the same production offensively it wont matter who they draft they will be back in the lottery again in 22... They need to keep the core or blow it the f up. If something is worth doing its worth doing well

I don't agree with that. Hopefully the improvement from others will pick up Sextons scoring loss. If anything I'm thinking how much better this team could become by bringing in a player that does what Sexton couldnt.

Sexton definitely is a really good scorer, he just leaves so much to be desired in literally every other part of the game and that's what kills the Cavs. His lack of size and defense at SG kills the Cavs, Okoro playing out of position kills the Cavs, his tendancy to pound the ball kills the Cavs, his inability to keep the ball flowing on offense kills the Cavs.

I love him as a scorer but he needs to take a huge leap this next year.

[Stillwater]

Im done relying on bounces of ping pong balls. The draft is such a crap shoot its impossible to rely or plan on it getting you talent.

The Cavs have 4 really good young players, they need to focus on getting them to take a step forward and play together.

Getting rid of Collin Sexton for a top 6-10 draft pick does not make this team better. Also, going into next year with the same roster + Evan Mobley also does not make them much better.

If they trade Sexton, they need a player. They need somebody who compliments the other 3 we have. They need somebody who can help unlock the talent of others by their style of play.

If CLE trades Sexton for anything less than a player giving the same production offensively it wont matter who they draft they will be back in the lottery again in 22... They need to keep the core or blow it the f up. If something is worth doing its worth doing well

I don't agree with that. Hopefully the improvement from others will pick up Sextons scoring loss. If anything I'm thinking how much better this team could become by bringing in a player that does what Sexton couldnt.

Sexton definitely is a really good scorer, he just leaves so much to be desired in literally every other part of the game and that's what kills the Cavs. His lack of size and defense at SG kills the Cavs, Okoro playing out of position kills the Cavs, his tendancy to pound the ball kills the Cavs, his inability to keep the ball flowing on offense kills the Cavs.

I love him as a scorer but he needs to take a huge leap this next year.

If that were true when he was out we would have seen it enough to force them to move him to the bench... it just is not the reality you are seeing. His teammates NEED him to score like he does and the coaches NEED him to do what he does...
I agree it would be great if the Cavs had more spacing threats healthy last season where better ball movement would have made a difference but no team was going to care about defending anyone he passed it too if he did given the nightmare results on average from the majority when they did get shots up.

[Revenged25]

How's this trade?

Cavs Trade: Collin Sexton, Dylan Windler, Taurean Prince, '22 Protected 1st (haven't came up with protections)
Bulls Trade: Zach Lavine

Cavs get the same scoring with a better 3pt volume and size to pair with Garland, though if Lavine doesn't want to play defense don't think it changes much personally. Bulls get a slightly different version of Lavine who's currently on a cheaper deal, a reclamation 3pt shooter in Windler, salary filler, and a future 1st for the currently better player.

Both Sexton and Lavine will be looking to get paid after this upcoming season, but the Cavs might be willing to pay Lavine for whatever reason rather than Sexton.

[mcfly1204]

How's this trade?

Cavs Trade: Collin Sexton, Dylan Windler, Taurean Prince, '22 Protected 1st (haven't came up with protections)
Bulls Trade: Zach Lavine

Cavs get the same scoring with a better 3pt volume and size to pair with Garland, though if Lavine doesn't want to play defense don't think it changes much personally. Bulls get a slightly different version of Lavine who's currently on a cheaper deal, a reclamation 3pt shooter in Windler, salary filler, and a future 1st for the currently better player.

Both Sexton and Lavine will be looking to get paid after this upcoming season, but the Cavs might be willing to pay Lavine for whatever reason rather than Sexton.

With Lavine being on the final year of his current deal, this puts us in the same position, no?