2025 Playoffs ECSF: Cavs (1) / Pacers (4) (1-4)

[JonFromVA]

I'm going to single out DG since he's our PG and should be able to lead the team and get the offense functioning even when he's nowhere close to 100%. I suspect he and Don are just too used to being amazing, but they could better cope with these types of situations if they learn to read the game and the opponent and just play smarter.

Even that doesn't mean we win, but we need to be a step ahead of our opponents, not a step behind all the time.

[SHAQ32]

Great regular season, Cavs.

[jbk1234]

I'm going to single out DG since he's our PG and should be able to lead the team and get the offense functioning even when he's nowhere close to 100%. I suspect he and Don are just too used to being amazing, but they could better cope with these types of situations if they learn to read the game and the opponent and just play smarter.

Even that doesn't mean we win, but we need to be a step ahead of our opponents, not a step behind all the time.

He had no business playing. He was hobbled.

[JonFromVA]

I'm going to single out DG since he's our PG and should be able to lead the team and get the offense functioning even when he's nowhere close to 100%. I suspect he and Don are just too used to being amazing, but they could better cope with these types of situations if they learn to read the game and the opponent and just play smarter.

Even that doesn't mean we win, but we need to be a step ahead of our opponents, not a step behind all the time.

He had no business playing. He was hobbled.

Their brains weren't hobbled.

[Absolutia]

How banged up were your team?

[JujitsuFlip]

How banged up were your team?

Garland reaggravated his turf toe in game 2 of the Heat series and missed the final 2 games of the series plus the first 2 games of the Pacers series. If it wasn't the playoffs he would not have been out there hobbling around.

Mobley rolled his ankle in the 4th quarter of game 1 in the Pacers series, sat out game 2.

Hunter dislocated the thumb on his shooting hand in the 4th quarter of game 1 of the Pacers series, sat game 2, never found his shot again in the series. Doubt he'd be playing if it wasn't the playoffs.

Mitchell reaggravated his rolled left ankle in the 1st half of game 4 in the Pacers seires, sat out the 2nd half. If it wasn't the playoffs he would not have been out there hobbling around.

Merrill missed game 5 of the Pacers series with a neck strain.

[jbk1234]

I'm going to single out DG since he's our PG and should be able to lead the team and get the offense functioning even when he's nowhere close to 100%. I suspect he and Don are just too used to being amazing, but they could better cope with these types of situations if they learn to read the game and the opponent and just play smarter.

Even that doesn't mean we win, but we need to be a step ahead of our opponents, not a step behind all the time.

He had no business playing. He was hobbled.

Their brains weren't hobbled.

I may go back and re-watch (not sure I want to do that to myself), but it seemed to me that that the Pacers figured out that neither Garland nor Mitchell could shoot from the outside off of one foot. We're a much easier team to defend when the two primary ball handlers aren't a shooting threat.

Allen was gassed the entire second half. I think we are at a get him a backup or trade him inflection point on that front. Okoro was typical Okoro. Solid, but not great, defense that doesn't quite offset his shortcomings on the offensive end. I'm definitely open to moving him.

My fear that Strus was due for a stinker from range came to fruition. Merrill was out. Ty didn't play for most of the game.

[ijspeelman]

It was somewhere in the middle of the third when there was a run where we were up and ended up down 6 or so where it felt over.

I am someone to harp on the "wanted it more" or "lack of energy", but legitemately we didn't "give up", however it was visibly apparent that more everyone on the floor was gassed. Allen was getting beat up on the boards and jogging down, Garland/Mitchell were limping up and down the floor, and Mobley couldn't be everywhere on the defensive end to mop up how slow our rotations were.

Despite this not being near the offensive explosion by the Pacers in game 4, they basically had anything they wanted 2nd half until the end because we had some of our worst rotations to date. And it wasn't lack of focus or lack of trying, the guys just were not quick enough/fit enough to stop the action.

There was a play where someone was driving in and Mitchell was on the weak side and typically would stunt at them to get them to pick-up their dribble, but didn't and then our help was much too late and it was an easy lay-up.

I thought it was apparent before the end of the first half that Garland was incredibly hobbled and we would need Jerome in to soak up some minutes. The coaching staff decided before the game that Jerome was not going to come in unless absolutely necessary. They brought him in much too late, and to Jerome's credit ignited a completely flat offense with two threes and a floater that actually went in. Timeout Pacers and then we proceeded to freeze him out of the offense and let him die on an island on defense.

I really am not here to blame any players or coaches in particular. I understand the conditions they were playing under, but its not really an excuse with how we went out.

[ijspeelman]

Quick shoutouts to Mitchell, who absolutely carried the offense on his back the first few games, Mobley, who still was obviously hobbled to me and still looked good on both ends, and Strus, who made a ton of high impact plays down the stretches of games to keep them competitive.

[toooskies]

147 assists for the Pacers this series, 103 for the Cavs. In the final game, the Pacers out-assisted us 26 to 10. The offense simply stopped being fluid like it was in the regular season. Guys who were having bad shooting nights kept shooting, and specifically kept calling their own number trying to go 1-on-1. There's a time for that, but it was always our only plan.

I think it was our only plan because our rotation shrank and the team didn't have the legs to keep running actions.

Every rotation player on the Pacers shot over 40% from three except Toppin. Every rotation player on our team shot under 35% from three except Mobley. (And Okoro, I guess. Okoro went 2/5, his two makes happened in garbage time in game 4.)

Mobley and Allen were super-efficient and didn't get the ball enough, both over 68% true shooting. Allen had a bunch of turnovers that probably hurt the confidence the guards had in him.

Myles Turner was the best defensive big on the floor.

The Cavs really needed to win game 2, in hindsight, to make this a series.

I wonder what was up with Merrill and if Strus's "don't show up" text was directed at him. May not have been at all, or maybe Merrill knows he's looking for a new home in the offseason.

[Absolutia]

How banged up were your team?

Garland reaggravated his turf toe in game 2 of the Heat series and missed the final 2 games of the series plus the first 2 games of the Pacers series. If it wasn't the playoffs he would not have been out there hobbling around.

Mobley rolled his ankle in the 4th quarter of game 1 in the Pacers series, sat out game 2.

Hunter dislocated the thumb on his shooting hand in the 4th quarter of game 1 of the Pacers series, sat game 2, never found his shot again in the series. Doubt he'd be playing if it wasn't the playoffs.

Mitchell reaggravated his rolled left ankle in the 1st half of game 4 in the Pacers seires, sat out the 2nd half. If it wasn't the playoffs he would not have been out there hobbling around.

Merrill missed game 5 of the Pacers series with a neck strain.

Sounds like injuries might have been a decisive factor. Do you think it's best to just run it back and hopefully stay healthy next year, or are any real changes needed?

[JujitsuFlip]

How banged up were your team?

Garland reaggravated his turf toe in game 2 of the Heat series and missed the final 2 games of the series plus the first 2 games of the Pacers series. If it wasn't the playoffs he would not have been out there hobbling around.

Mobley rolled his ankle in the 4th quarter of game 1 in the Pacers series, sat out game 2.

Hunter dislocated the thumb on his shooting hand in the 4th quarter of game 1 of the Pacers series, sat game 2, never found his shot again in the series. Doubt he'd be playing if it wasn't the playoffs.

Mitchell reaggravated his rolled left ankle in the 1st half of game 4 in the Pacers seires, sat out the 2nd half. If it wasn't the playoffs he would not have been out there hobbling around.

Merrill missed game 5 of the Pacers series with a neck strain.

Sounds like injuries might have been a decisive factor. Do you think it's best to just run it back and hopefully stay healthy next year, or are any real changes needed?

They're a 2nd apron team, so 8 of our top 10 guys will be back. Despite a terrible 2nd round from Jerome and Merrill, they will both get paid this summer, by other teams.

Injuries were sure a factor but that is the 4th season in a row the Cavs have said that. Next season is their last shot to use that excuse, then the roster is too expensive and they gotta try something else.

[JonFromVA]

He had no business playing. He was hobbled.

Their brains weren't hobbled.

I may go back and re-watch (not sure I want to do that to myself), but it seemed to me that that the Pacers figured out that neither Garland nor Mitchell could shoot from the outside off of one foot. We're a much easier team to defend when the two primary ball handlers aren't a shooting threat.

Allen was gassed the entire second half. I think we are at a get him a backup or trade him inflection point on that front. Okoro was typical Okoro. Solid, but not great, defense that doesn't quite offset his shortcomings on the offensive end. I'm definitely open to moving him.

My fear that Strus was due for a stinker from range came to fruition. Merrill was out. Ty didn't play for most of the game.

Of course which is why I'd hope between our leaders and the coaching staff they'd be able to come up with something else, notice something about the Pacers they can exploit. If nothing else, feed Mobley constantly?

[JonFromVA]

It was somewhere in the middle of the third when there was a run where we were up and ended up down 6 or so where it felt over.

I am someone to harp on the "wanted it more" or "lack of energy", but legitemately we didn't "give up", however it was visibly apparent that more everyone on the floor was gassed. Allen was getting beat up on the boards and jogging down, Garland/Mitchell were limping up and down the floor, and Mobley couldn't be everywhere on the defensive end to mop up how slow our rotations were.

Despite this not being near the offensive explosion by the Pacers in game 4, they basically had anything they wanted 2nd half until the end because we had some of our worst rotations to date. And it wasn't lack of focus or lack of trying, the guys just were not quick enough/fit enough to stop the action.

There was a play where someone was driving in and Mitchell was on the weak side and typically would stunt at them to get them to pick-up their dribble, but didn't and then our help was much too late and it was an easy lay-up.

I thought it was apparent before the end of the first half that Garland was incredibly hobbled and we would need Jerome in to soak up some minutes. The coaching staff decided before the game that Jerome was not going to come in unless absolutely necessary. They brought him in much too late, and to Jerome's credit ignited a completely flat offense with two threes and a floater that actually went in. Timeout Pacers and then we proceeded to freeze him out of the offense and let him die on an island on defense.

I really am not here to blame any players or coaches in particular. I understand the conditions they were playing under, but its not really an excuse with how we went out.

Before the end the Cavs did give up, it was written on their faces captured nicely on the broadcast ... well, except Jerome.

[jbk1234]

Their brains weren't hobbled.

I may go back and re-watch (not sure I want to do that to myself), but it seemed to me that that the Pacers figured out that neither Garland nor Mitchell could shoot from the outside off of one foot. We're a much easier team to defend when the two primary ball handlers aren't a shooting threat.

Allen was gassed the entire second half. I think we are at a get him a backup or trade him inflection point on that front. Okoro was typical Okoro. Solid, but not great, defense that doesn't quite offset his shortcomings on the offensive end. I'm definitely open to moving him.

My fear that Strus was due for a stinker from range came to fruition. Merrill was out. Ty didn't play for most of the game.

Of course which is why I'd hope between our leaders and the coaching staff they'd be able to come up with something else, notice something about the Pacers they can exploit. If nothing else, feed Mobley constantly?

They were feeding Mobley and then the Pacers stopped extending their defense and lived with the hobbled guys driving into a more packed paint. With Strus having an off night and Okoro getting extended minutes, it wasn't exactly a tough call.

Mitchell saw that which why he went back to locker room in the 4th, and endangered his health so he could take a jump shot without getting thrown off by the pain.

[ijspeelman]

Also, shoutout the Pacers. Played like championship contenders.

Anyone saying the Cavs "went away" from their regular season offense isn't seeing that the Pacers made it so. Yes, the Pacers played physical, but they also completed negated the PNR or hand offs that typically started our possessions by just being able to get over the screen every time. They made the Cavs play one-on-one to get anything going and then mainly stayed home so we didn't get open jumpers (especially in the corners). RJ Nembhard was so good this series and it went so beyond the absurd shots.

Its pretty fair to say that Carlisle outcoached Atkinson, but I don't want that to be a smoking gun against Atkinson. We gotta come out next year with a counter to this counter for our offense. And I don't have the answers because nothing the Cavs did ever made the offense look good. There were bright spots sure, but they were just spots. Nothing sustained we could go to and rely on.

I am one who likes to bring up shooting luck a lot because it does have a huge impact on individual games. I've seen peeps in other places (reddit) blame the fact we couldn't make threes. There were almost no easy threes to make in this entire series. It was completely by the Pacers' design and it 100% worked.

[JujitsuFlip]

Also, shoutout the Pacers. Played like championship contenders.

Anyone saying the Cavs "went away" from their regular season offense isn't seeing that the Pacers made it so. Yes, the Pacers played physical, but they also completed negated the PNR or hand offs that typically started our possessions by just being able to get over the screen every time. They made the Cavs play one-on-one to get anything going and then mainly stayed home so we didn't get open jumpers (especially in the corners). RJ Nembhard was so good this series and it went so beyond the absurd shots.

Its pretty fair to say that Carlisle outcoached Atkinson, but I don't want that to be a smoking gun against Atkinson. We gotta come out next year with a counter to this counter for our offense. And I don't have the answers because nothing the Cavs did ever made the offense look good. There were bright spots sure, but they were just spots. Nothing sustained we could go to and rely on.

I am one who likes to bring up shooting luck a lot because it does have a huge impact on individual games. I've seen peeps in other places (reddit) blame the fact we couldn't make threes. There were almost no easy threes to make in this entire series. It was completely by the Pacers' design and it 100% worked.

Idk bro, i am not taking much from a series where my All-Star back court is hobbled as evidence of anything other than my All-Star back court can't stay healthy.

I am fairly confident this is a different series if we're not injured. Garland and Mitchell 100% had no business being out there.

I am like 80% sure Hunter should not have been out there either, the guy was not himself.

Mobley didn't look awful to me, he probably coulda been out there but I'm not saying he was close to fully healthy.

Idk what even happened to Merrill's neck.

[ijspeelman]

Also, shoutout the Pacers. Played like championship contenders.

Anyone saying the Cavs "went away" from their regular season offense isn't seeing that the Pacers made it so. Yes, the Pacers played physical, but they also completed negated the PNR or hand offs that typically started our possessions by just being able to get over the screen every time. They made the Cavs play one-on-one to get anything going and then mainly stayed home so we didn't get open jumpers (especially in the corners). RJ Nembhard was so good this series and it went so beyond the absurd shots.

Its pretty fair to say that Carlisle outcoached Atkinson, but I don't want that to be a smoking gun against Atkinson. We gotta come out next year with a counter to this counter for our offense. And I don't have the answers because nothing the Cavs did ever made the offense look good. There were bright spots sure, but they were just spots. Nothing sustained we could go to and rely on.

I am one who likes to bring up shooting luck a lot because it does have a huge impact on individual games. I've seen peeps in other places (reddit) blame the fact we couldn't make threes. There were almost no easy threes to make in this entire series. It was completely by the Pacers' design and it 100% worked.

Idk bro, i am not taking much from a series where my All-Star back court is hobbled as evidence of anything other than my All-Star back court can't stay healthy.

I am fairly confident this is a different series if we're not injured. Garland and Mitchell 100% had no business being out there.

I am like 80% sure Hunter should not have been out there either, the guy was not himself.

Mobley didn't look awful to me, he probably coulda been out there but I'm not saying he was close to fully healthy.

Idk what even happened to Merrill's neck.

I've been thinking and I am not entirely sure if we win the series if we had been fully healthy. It obviously would have been a lot tighter, but they were playing our team extremely well. But, I have no clue what would have happened we only got to see what we got to see.

I do 100% agree that a lot of those guys, especially Garland, shouldn't have touched the floor

[JujitsuFlip]

Also, shoutout the Pacers. Played like championship contenders.

Anyone saying the Cavs "went away" from their regular season offense isn't seeing that the Pacers made it so. Yes, the Pacers played physical, but they also completed negated the PNR or hand offs that typically started our possessions by just being able to get over the screen every time. They made the Cavs play one-on-one to get anything going and then mainly stayed home so we didn't get open jumpers (especially in the corners). RJ Nembhard was so good this series and it went so beyond the absurd shots.

Its pretty fair to say that Carlisle outcoached Atkinson, but I don't want that to be a smoking gun against Atkinson. We gotta come out next year with a counter to this counter for our offense. And I don't have the answers because nothing the Cavs did ever made the offense look good. There were bright spots sure, but they were just spots. Nothing sustained we could go to and rely on.

I am one who likes to bring up shooting luck a lot because it does have a huge impact on individual games. I've seen peeps in other places (reddit) blame the fact we couldn't make threes. There were almost no easy threes to make in this entire series. It was completely by the Pacers' design and it 100% worked.

Idk bro, i am not taking much from a series where my All-Star back court is hobbled as evidence of anything other than my All-Star back court can't stay healthy.

I am fairly confident this is a different series if we're not injured. Garland and Mitchell 100% had no business being out there.

I am like 80% sure Hunter should not have been out there either, the guy was not himself.

Mobley didn't look awful to me, he probably coulda been out there but I'm not saying he was close to fully healthy.

Idk what even happened to Merrill's neck.

I've been thinking and I am not entirely sure if we win the series if we had been fully healthy. It obviously would have been a lot tighter, but they were playing our team extremely well. But, I have no clue what would have happened we only got to see what we got to see.

I do 100% agree that a lot of those guys, especially Garland, shouldn't have touched the floor

This isn't a 2015 Finals situation for me either. I am not positive health = a series victory but if we win game 1 and/or 2, getting punched in the mouth like game 4 is much less devastating, from a series perspective.

I honestly take nothing from game 5, despite jumping out to a 19 point lead. Mitchell went to the locker room to presumably get a shot of some sort in his ankle, Garland switched shoes trying to find any sense of comfort in his toe.

I don't honestly care about the series, it played out how it did. It is bigger picture for me at this point. We have not had 1 post season the last 4 years, where we can't point to injuries as being a massive obstacle for us. I give this core 1 more season then i pivot if they're hurt in spring again. We can only be in the 2nd apron for 2 seasons if we don't want our 1st rounder gettint frozen and moved to dead last in the first round.

[JonFromVA]

Also, shoutout the Pacers. Played like championship contenders.

Anyone saying the Cavs "went away" from their regular season offense isn't seeing that the Pacers made it so. Yes, the Pacers played physical, but they also completed negated the PNR or hand offs that typically started our possessions by just being able to get over the screen every time. They made the Cavs play one-on-one to get anything going and then mainly stayed home so we didn't get open jumpers (especially in the corners). RJ Nembhard was so good this series and it went so beyond the absurd shots.

Its pretty fair to say that Carlisle outcoached Atkinson, but I don't want that to be a smoking gun against Atkinson. We gotta come out next year with a counter to this counter for our offense. And I don't have the answers because nothing the Cavs did ever made the offense look good. There were bright spots sure, but they were just spots. Nothing sustained we could go to and rely on.

I am one who likes to bring up shooting luck a lot because it does have a huge impact on individual games. I've seen peeps in other places (reddit) blame the fact we couldn't make threes. There were almost no easy threes to make in this entire series. It was completely by the Pacers' design and it 100% worked.

Perfectly fair to give the Pacers credit, but I saw a lot of lineups where nobody was even trying to move off the ball. The constant cutting, off ball screens, and big to big actions were all part of our offense.

And it's not like we need easy 3's, we made plenty of hard 3's. I'd be curious to know what these guys were doing in between games to try to lock their shots in and what the coaching staff told them. I get it, injuries and exhaustion throw off shooting, but it should be possible to lock in the range from a couple of spots and then try to scheme your way to those spots.

And we're such a young team and the organization did everything they could to manage minutes this season ... why don't they play like it?

I trust Kenny to help them learn from this, but will the lessons take? Will they stick? Will they be better prepared for playoff basketball?

The big story is the injuries and how fragile our team is, but there are a lot of little stories we shouldn't ignore.