Trade Ideas (Part III)

[jbk1234]

I hope so, deadlines create action. I highly doubt the Knicks would be willing to part with RJ but thats a dream scenerio. Maybe in a 3 team trade we could get him if another team gives something to the Knicks making RJ expendable--but I highly doubt they do Sexton for Barrett swap unless they can get a SF prospect or good draft pick they like from a different team.

Is it at all possible to loop in the Warriors who have said to have interest in Love? Please dont quote me on salaries this is a guess

CLE
In- Barrett + NYK 2nd

NYK
In- Sexton + Wiggins

GS
In- Love + Prince

This seems crazy optimistic on a multitude of fronts.

I think we would have a better shot at acquiring Wiggins over Barrett, and agree that either way, moving Love as part of a deal makes it that much more unlikely.

Unless the Heat really think they can rehab him, and how can they think that after he had to bow out of the Olympics, I just don't see him getting moved. We're seven months away from the next deadline and at that point, he'll be owed less than $40M. He can can give back like $12M and everyone can go their separate ways. I'd rather have like $18-20M in dead cap next summer than part with any type of serious trade asset to move him. It would take a borderline miraculous bounce back season for him to even get to neutral trade value where another team would give up an expiring contract. If that happened by some chance, I'd assume we were actually in the playoff hunt and he was adding value. I think a buyout or medical retirement are the two most likely options.

[LivingLegend]

That's my thinking. If Sexton get's traded it's going to be after FA has gotten started and rosters start finalizing. In a situation like that I could even see the Knicks giving up RJ for Sexton depending on who they get in FA.

I hope so, deadlines create action. I highly doubt the Knicks would be willing to part with RJ but thats a dream scenerio. Maybe in a 3 team trade we could get him if another team gives something to the Knicks making RJ expendable--but I highly doubt they do Sexton for Barrett swap unless they can get a SF prospect or good draft pick they like from a different team.

Is it at all possible to loop in the Warriors who have said to have interest in Love? Please dont quote me on salaries this is a guess

CLE
In- Barrett + NYK 2nd

NYK
In- Sexton + Wiggins

GS
In- Love + Prince

This seems crazy optimistic on a multitude of fronts.

lol sort of but its just as good as any of the other garbage spewed on the T&T board.

I feel like it helps all 3 teams in what their teams a currently looking for. The Cavs get off Love + Sexton and bring in Barrett who would fit nicely. The Knicks get their perimeter scorer in Sexton while replacing Barrett with a comparable piece in Wiggins. The Warriors get Love to help their 'big 3' go on another title run while also getting Prince as a 3/D player that fits them and replaces Wiggins spot. Win-Win-Win!

I feel like somebody has to take advantage of GS being desperate to go on another title run while looking for good veteran talent.

[toooskies]

With Lavine being on the final year of his current deal, this puts us in the same position, no?

Yes, but Lavine fits the team better than Sexton does so I would imagine they would have no problem paying him the Max contract Sextons group is desiring.

Or maybe the Cavs would just prefer not to pay a max contract to a player that hasn't proven to be a franchise player?

Sure, that can lead to some bad decisions; but the Cavs paying Sexton/Allen/Garland/Okoro/#3 all max deals is not going to happen. We can start making choices now, or we can wait and let those choices be forced upon us.

It's too early to totally say for Garland and especially Okoro, but Sexton is the only one who any team with a brain would consider offering a max contract to (and most would probably say no, but there's some dumb/desperate/hopeful teams out there). Allen should be in the $20-25m range at most, Garland is probably headed to the same range, and Okoro currently is headed for a Marcus Smart-like contract in the $10-15m/year range but a lot could change.

So I've got us at roughly $30m + $25m + $25m + $15m = $95m/year for the core four in the worst-case of external contracts for what they are reasonably expected to ask for with current performance, but you expect something around $80m. But you're also expecting an all-star in Sexton, a possible all-star in Garland, a top 10 center in Allen and a top defender in Okoro, which all of those guys should grow into but definitely aren't there yet.

Maybe you don't think those guys will stay on their current reasonable projection-- if Okoro develops an offensive game, look out-- but if they meet the expectations of what we should pay them, we will be a good team with most important roles filled, and we can sign the TJ O'Connells and Reggie-Jacksons and Nic Batums of the world to fill the gaps. And if #3 turns into a franchise cornerstone, we'll be a contender.

[jbk1234]

Yes, but Lavine fits the team better than Sexton does so I would imagine they would have no problem paying him the Max contract Sextons group is desiring.

Or maybe the Cavs would just prefer not to pay a max contract to a player that hasn't proven to be a franchise player?

Sure, that can lead to some bad decisions; but the Cavs paying Sexton/Allen/Garland/Okoro/#3 all max deals is not going to happen. We can start making choices now, or we can wait and let those choices be forced upon us.

It's too early to totally say for Garland and especially Okoro, but Sexton is the only one who any team with a brain would consider offering a max contract to (and most would probably say no, but there's some dumb/desperate/hopeful teams out there). Allen should be in the $20-25m range at most, Garland is probably headed to the same range, and Okoro currently is headed for a Marcus Smart-like contract in the $10-15m/year range but a lot could change.

So I've got us at roughly $30m + $25m + $25m + $15m = $95m/year for the core four in the worst-case of external contracts for what they are reasonably expected to ask for with current performance, but you expect something around $80m. But you're also expecting an all-star in Sexton, a possible all-star in Garland, a top 10 center in Allen and a top defender in Okoro, which all of those guys should grow into but definitely aren't there yet.

Maybe you don't think those guys will stay on their current reasonable projection-- if Okoro develops an offensive game, look out-- but if they meet the expectations of what we should pay them, we will be a good team with most important roles filled, and we can sign the TJ O'Connells and Reggie-Jacksons and Nic Batums of the world to fill the gaps. And if #3 turns into a franchise cornerstone, we'll be a contender.

I think the issue is that if you pay Sexton based on the most optimistic projections, and you end up having to bring him off the bench down the road, what's his trade value? We're about to have a $30M backup PF next season. What's his current trade value?

For me, if there's any doubt at all, I'm taking that 4th year to evaluate. The Wolves would've saved themselves all kinds of headaches had they let Wiggins play out that 4th season rather than extend him early on a max deal.

[LivingLegend]

Yes, but Lavine fits the team better than Sexton does so I would imagine they would have no problem paying him the Max contract Sextons group is desiring.

Or maybe the Cavs would just prefer not to pay a max contract to a player that hasn't proven to be a franchise player?

Sure, that can lead to some bad decisions; but the Cavs paying Sexton/Allen/Garland/Okoro/#3 all max deals is not going to happen. We can start making choices now, or we can wait and let those choices be forced upon us.

It's too early to totally say for Garland and especially Okoro, but Sexton is the only one who any team with a brain would consider offering a max contract to (and most would probably say no, but there's some dumb/desperate/hopeful teams out there). Allen should be in the $20-25m range at most, Garland is probably headed to the same range, and Okoro currently is headed for a Marcus Smart-like contract in the $10-15m/year range but a lot could change.

So I've got us at roughly $30m + $25m + $25m + $15m = $95m/year for the core four in the worst-case of external contracts for what they are reasonably expected to ask for with current performance, but you expect something around $80m. But you're also expecting an all-star in Sexton, a possible all-star in Garland, a top 10 center in Allen and a top defender in Okoro, which all of those guys should grow into but definitely aren't there yet.

Maybe you don't think those guys will stay on their current reasonable projection-- if Okoro develops an offensive game, look out-- but if they meet the expectations of what we should pay them, we will be a good team with most important roles filled, and we can sign the TJ O'Connells and Reggie-Jacksons and Nic Batums of the world to fill the gaps. And if #3 turns into a franchise cornerstone, we'll be a contender.

Im kinda banking on that. He showed some real flashes scoring towards the end of the year when he had more confidence. It took the coaches I remember to say "Hey we want 20 shots from you this game' and he went out and balled. I remember the same thing happened with Garland too. They both just need confidence, and confidence comes with experience.

I think if given the lead of the team without Sexton, Garland could average 22/7/3 next year and Okoro by 2023 could be averaging 20/6/3 with great defense. Ive said it before but there is soooo much young Kawhi/Butler in Okoros game right now. It might take a year or two longer for him to explode but its in there. Maybe Im being too optimistic.

[JonFromVA]

Yes, but Lavine fits the team better than Sexton does so I would imagine they would have no problem paying him the Max contract Sextons group is desiring.

Or maybe the Cavs would just prefer not to pay a max contract to a player that hasn't proven to be a franchise player?

Sure, that can lead to some bad decisions; but the Cavs paying Sexton/Allen/Garland/Okoro/#3 all max deals is not going to happen. We can start making choices now, or we can wait and let those choices be forced upon us.

It's too early to totally say for Garland and especially Okoro, but Sexton is the only one who any team with a brain would consider offering a max contract to (and most would probably say no, but there's some dumb/desperate/hopeful teams out there). Allen should be in the $20-25m range at most, Garland is probably headed to the same range, and Okoro currently is headed for a Marcus Smart-like contract in the $10-15m/year range but a lot could change.

So I've got us at roughly $30m + $25m + $25m + $15m = $95m/year for the core four in the worst-case of external contracts for what they are reasonably expected to ask for with current performance, but you expect something around $80m. But you're also expecting an all-star in Sexton, a possible all-star in Garland, a top 10 center in Allen and a top defender in Okoro, which all of those guys should grow into but definitely aren't there yet.

Maybe you don't think those guys will stay on their current reasonable projection-- if Okoro develops an offensive game, look out-- but if they meet the expectations of what we should pay them, we will be a good team with most important roles filled, and we can sign the TJ O'Connells and Reggie-Jacksons and Nic Batums of the world to fill the gaps. And if #3 turns into a franchise cornerstone, we'll be a contender.

In terms of today's $$$, you've basically spent the equivalent of 3 max contracts among 4 players and we still have to eventually pay the guy we hope will become a franchise player at #3 ...all based on potential?

Even if the Cavs were a championship contender (rather than a lottery treadmill team), that's a lot of money.

But what if Collin was willing to sign for $20M, and that set a precedent and Allen slotted in at $15M, we got Garland for $15M, and Okoro for $12M?

That'd put our cap at just $62M and then yeah, the 3rd pick could make $30M and we'd have a $92M roster with room for some other decent players and/or to pay Garland/Okoro more if they earn it.

And how cool would it be to have all those players on tradable contracts so if we have to adjust the fit or the payroll, we could?

The fundamental problem is that we're both being unrealistic, and there are few safe/good options short of a prospect out-performing a max deal.

[JonFromVA]

Or maybe the Cavs would just prefer not to pay a max contract to a player that hasn't proven to be a franchise player?

Sure, that can lead to some bad decisions; but the Cavs paying Sexton/Allen/Garland/Okoro/#3 all max deals is not going to happen. We can start making choices now, or we can wait and let those choices be forced upon us.

It's too early to totally say for Garland and especially Okoro, but Sexton is the only one who any team with a brain would consider offering a max contract to (and most would probably say no, but there's some dumb/desperate/hopeful teams out there). Allen should be in the $20-25m range at most, Garland is probably headed to the same range, and Okoro currently is headed for a Marcus Smart-like contract in the $10-15m/year range but a lot could change.

So I've got us at roughly $30m + $25m + $25m + $15m = $95m/year for the core four in the worst-case of external contracts for what they are reasonably expected to ask for with current performance, but you expect something around $80m. But you're also expecting an all-star in Sexton, a possible all-star in Garland, a top 10 center in Allen and a top defender in Okoro, which all of those guys should grow into but definitely aren't there yet.

Maybe you don't think those guys will stay on their current reasonable projection-- if Okoro develops an offensive game, look out-- but if they meet the expectations of what we should pay them, we will be a good team with most important roles filled, and we can sign the TJ O'Connells and Reggie-Jacksons and Nic Batums of the world to fill the gaps. And if #3 turns into a franchise cornerstone, we'll be a contender.

Im kinda banking on that. He showed some real flashes scoring towards the end of the year when he had more confidence. It took the coaches I remember to say "Hey we want 20 shots from you this game' and he went out and balled. I remember the same thing happened with Garland too. They both just need confidence, and confidence comes with experience.

I think if given the lead of the team without Sexton, Garland could average 22/7/3 next year and Okoro by 2023 could be averaging 20/6/3 with great defense. Ive said it before but there is soooo much young Kawhi/Butler in Okoros game right now. It might take a year or two longer for him to explode but its in there. Maybe Im being too optimistic.

Garland was already at 20 & 7 for 15 games in April before going down to injury, but there's still only one basketball. For instance, after Booker's 25ppg, CP3 was Phoenix's next highest scorer at 16ppg.

There's still a lot Isaac can contribute if he just works on his jumper, makes cuts, and runs in transition, etc. He's already very good at moving the ball, but of course someone has to bother to involve him in the offense.

[LivingLegend]

It's too early to totally say for Garland and especially Okoro, but Sexton is the only one who any team with a brain would consider offering a max contract to (and most would probably say no, but there's some dumb/desperate/hopeful teams out there). Allen should be in the $20-25m range at most, Garland is probably headed to the same range, and Okoro currently is headed for a Marcus Smart-like contract in the $10-15m/year range but a lot could change.

So I've got us at roughly $30m + $25m + $25m + $15m = $95m/year for the core four in the worst-case of external contracts for what they are reasonably expected to ask for with current performance, but you expect something around $80m. But you're also expecting an all-star in Sexton, a possible all-star in Garland, a top 10 center in Allen and a top defender in Okoro, which all of those guys should grow into but definitely aren't there yet.

Maybe you don't think those guys will stay on their current reasonable projection-- if Okoro develops an offensive game, look out-- but if they meet the expectations of what we should pay them, we will be a good team with most important roles filled, and we can sign the TJ O'Connells and Reggie-Jacksons and Nic Batums of the world to fill the gaps. And if #3 turns into a franchise cornerstone, we'll be a contender.

Im kinda banking on that. He showed some real flashes scoring towards the end of the year when he had more confidence. It took the coaches I remember to say "Hey we want 20 shots from you this game' and he went out and balled. I remember the same thing happened with Garland too. They both just need confidence, and confidence comes with experience.

I think if given the lead of the team without Sexton, Garland could average 22/7/3 next year and Okoro by 2023 could be averaging 20/6/3 with great defense. Ive said it before but there is soooo much young Kawhi/Butler in Okoros game right now. It might take a year or two longer for him to explode but its in there. Maybe Im being too optimistic.

Garland was already at 20 & 7 for 15 games in April before going down to injury, but there's still only one basketball. For instance, after Booker's 25ppg, CP3 was Phoenix's next highest scorer at 16ppg.

There's still a lot Isaac can contribute if he just works on his jumper, makes cuts, and runs in transition, etc. He's already very good at moving the ball, but of course someone has to bother to involve him in the offense.

Exactly, that's where Garland and Mobleys passing ability will make a big difference for others. Imagine Mobley at the elbow dropping dimes and hitting cutters like Okoro/Winder very Joker-esq style.

Windler is another one who would benefit because he never stops moving. Half the time though nobody hit him. I vividly remember a 4-5 possession stretch last year where he came off screens wide open and Sexton didn't see him to pass it. He was begging for the ball. He cut backdoor again wide open and was flailing his arms in the air screaming---again Sexton didn't see him. Windler was giving him death stares for a few possessions, I thought he was going to strangle him in the huddle.

That's another reason why Sexton is viewed around the league differently. There is no denying his ISO scoring ability, there is just much he doesn't do, know or see that makes people ask 'can you really win with this guy dominating the ball'. And it's also the reason why reports come out about other teams saying 'you know he ain't going to pass it to you'. Sexton has developed quit the reputation for what he can and can't do already. Which is why I believe no serious offer yet has been discussed that we know of.

[mg]

Who cares about Windler. He's a bust. Still can't believe they passed over Keldon Johnson to draft Windler.

[Stillwater]

Who cares about Windler. He's a bust. Still can't believe they passed over Keldon Johnson to draft Windler.

i mean if he never plays then yeah the gamble busted, but Windler is anything but a bust if he ever can stay healthy was clearly one of the most reliable off ball players in the draft skill wise. They could have picked several better players than DG too but at this point what is the difference I say they got who they got

[JonFromVA]

Who cares about Windler. He's a bust. Still can't believe they passed over Keldon Johnson to draft Windler.

He's going to be 25 by the time the season rolls around, but I'd still like to see if he can stay healthy long enough to settle in to a role before declaring him a bust.

Assuming he settles his nerves, there's actually a lot of ways he's shown he can contribute beyond just running around the perimeter and launching 3's.

[JonFromVA]

Im kinda banking on that. He showed some real flashes scoring towards the end of the year when he had more confidence. It took the coaches I remember to say "Hey we want 20 shots from you this game' and he went out and balled. I remember the same thing happened with Garland too. They both just need confidence, and confidence comes with experience.

I think if given the lead of the team without Sexton, Garland could average 22/7/3 next year and Okoro by 2023 could be averaging 20/6/3 with great defense. Ive said it before but there is soooo much young Kawhi/Butler in Okoros game right now. It might take a year or two longer for him to explode but its in there. Maybe Im being too optimistic.

Garland was already at 20 & 7 for 15 games in April before going down to injury, but there's still only one basketball. For instance, after Booker's 25ppg, CP3 was Phoenix's next highest scorer at 16ppg.

There's still a lot Isaac can contribute if he just works on his jumper, makes cuts, and runs in transition, etc. He's already very good at moving the ball, but of course someone has to bother to involve him in the offense.

Exactly, that's where Garland and Mobleys passing ability will make a big difference for others. Imagine Mobley at the elbow dropping dimes and hitting cutters like Okoro/Winder very Joker-esq style.

Windler is another one who would benefit because he never stops moving. Half the time though nobody hit him. I vividly remember a 4-5 possession stretch last year where he came off screens wide open and Sexton didn't see him to pass it. He was begging for the ball. He cut backdoor again wide open and was flailing his arms in the air screaming---again Sexton didn't see him. Windler was giving him death stares for a few possessions, I thought he was going to strangle him in the huddle.

That's another reason why Sexton is viewed around the league differently. There is no denying his ISO scoring ability, there is just much he doesn't do, know or see that makes people ask 'can you really win with this guy dominating the ball'. And it's also the reason why reports come out about other teams saying 'you know he ain't going to pass it to you'. Sexton has developed quit the reputation for what he can and can't do already. Which is why I believe no serious offer yet has been discussed that we know of.

Terrific post, and I just wish we had more leadership on the team that would work with Collin to help him see these things.

I get the impression Delly tried, but that big blow up with Love/Sexton/Beilein was supposedly about Beilein letting Collin just pound the air out of the ball.

[Stillwater]

Garland was already at 20 & 7 for 15 games in April before going down to injury, but there's still only one basketball. For instance, after Booker's 25ppg, CP3 was Phoenix's next highest scorer at 16ppg.

There's still a lot Isaac can contribute if he just works on his jumper, makes cuts, and runs in transition, etc. He's already very good at moving the ball, but of course someone has to bother to involve him in the offense.

Exactly, that's where Garland and Mobleys passing ability will make a big difference for others. Imagine Mobley at the elbow dropping dimes and hitting cutters like Okoro/Winder very Joker-esq style.

Windler is another one who would benefit because he never stops moving. Half the time though nobody hit him. I vividly remember a 4-5 possession stretch last year where he came off screens wide open and Sexton didn't see him to pass it. He was begging for the ball. He cut backdoor again wide open and was flailing his arms in the air screaming---again Sexton didn't see him. Windler was giving him death stares for a few possessions, I thought he was going to strangle him in the huddle.

That's another reason why Sexton is viewed around the league differently. There is no denying his ISO scoring ability, there is just much he doesn't do, know or see that makes people ask 'can you really win with this guy dominating the ball'. And it's also the reason why reports come out about other teams saying 'you know he ain't going to pass it to you'. Sexton has developed quit the reputation for what he can and can't do already. Which is why I believe no serious offer yet has been discussed that we know of.

Terrific post, and I just wish we had more leadership on the team that would work with Collin to help him see these things.

I get the impression Delly tried, but that big blow up with Love/Sexton/Beilein was supposedly about Beilein letting Collin just pound the air out of the ball.

I dont mean to dredge up old arguments but since you mentioned this... Beilein took ownership of that play after the game where Love got pissed off Sexton stood right next to Beilein pounding the air out of the ball letting the clock run down and even Love admitted later his error in judgement.
Sexton for all the criticism he gets for not doing what the fkn coaches want is laughable because he is mostly trying to do what they want except for the few moments a game when he says awe f you coach I got this...
That instance is clearly one standing right next to the coach who tells him to hold and poor angry little kev threw a baby tantrum

[LivingLegend]

Exactly, that's where Garland and Mobleys passing ability will make a big difference for others. Imagine Mobley at the elbow dropping dimes and hitting cutters like Okoro/Winder very Joker-esq style.

Windler is another one who would benefit because he never stops moving. Half the time though nobody hit him. I vividly remember a 4-5 possession stretch last year where he came off screens wide open and Sexton didn't see him to pass it. He was begging for the ball. He cut backdoor again wide open and was flailing his arms in the air screaming---again Sexton didn't see him. Windler was giving him death stares for a few possessions, I thought he was going to strangle him in the huddle.

That's another reason why Sexton is viewed around the league differently. There is no denying his ISO scoring ability, there is just much he doesn't do, know or see that makes people ask 'can you really win with this guy dominating the ball'. And it's also the reason why reports come out about other teams saying 'you know he ain't going to pass it to you'. Sexton has developed quit the reputation for what he can and can't do already. Which is why I believe no serious offer yet has been discussed that we know of.

Terrific post, and I just wish we had more leadership on the team that would work with Collin to help him see these things.

I get the impression Delly tried, but that big blow up with Love/Sexton/Beilein was supposedly about Beilein letting Collin just pound the air out of the ball.

I dont mean to dredge up old arguments but since you mentioned this... Beilein took ownership of that play after the game where Love got pissed off Sexton stood right next to Beilein pounding the air out of the ball letting the clock run down and even Love admitted later his error in judgement.
Sexton for all the criticism he gets for not doing what the fkn coaches want is laughable because he is mostly trying to do what they want except for the few moments a game when he says awe f you coach I got this...
That instance is clearly one standing right next to the coach who tells him to hold and poor angry little kev threw a baby tantrum

The thing about Collin man you need to understand is that when there is smoke, there is fire. He has been at the receiving end of a LOT of critisism for the way he plays and he has only been in the league 3 years.

-Love's disdain is well documented
-There were reports about 'anonymous veterans' not being happy with Sexton last year
-Other teams are saying 'you know hes not going to pass it to you'
-Windler/Okoro on multiple occasions looked visibly frustrated with him not seeing them, shrugging their shoulders
-The Cavs dont seem willing to give him a Max

I think everybody agrees Sexton is a great ISO scorer--the question is "Does Collin Sexton handling the ball as a #1 or #2 make your team better" and right now that answer is no.

I think Sexton is a really good player--but his ideal role is that of a '3rd wheel' like Love was during the Finals runs. A role where not much is asked of him outside of scoring and bringing the ball up court a bit. Thats why I think him being the #3 in Miami next to Butler and Bam is probably the best situation for his career. Not being the lead guard on the rebuilding, horrible Cavs that are trying to figure this roster out.

[Stillwater]

Terrific post, and I just wish we had more leadership on the team that would work with Collin to help him see these things.

I get the impression Delly tried, but that big blow up with Love/Sexton/Beilein was supposedly about Beilein letting Collin just pound the air out of the ball.

I dont mean to dredge up old arguments but since you mentioned this... Beilein took ownership of that play after the game where Love got pissed off Sexton stood right next to Beilein pounding the air out of the ball letting the clock run down and even Love admitted later his error in judgement.
Sexton for all the criticism he gets for not doing what the fkn coaches want is laughable because he is mostly trying to do what they want except for the few moments a game when he says awe f you coach I got this...
That instance is clearly one standing right next to the coach who tells him to hold and poor angry little kev threw a baby tantrum

The thing about Collin man you need to understand is that when there is smoke, there is fire. He has been at the receiving end of a LOT of critisism for the way he plays and he has only been in the league 3 years.

-Love's disdain is well documented
-There were reports about 'anonymous veterans' not being happy with Sexton last year
-Other teams are saying 'you know hes not going to pass it to you'
-Windler/Okoro on multiple occasions looked visibly frustrated with him not seeing them, shrugging their shoulders
-The Cavs dont seem willing to give him a Max

I think everybody agrees Sexton is a great ISO scorer--the question is "Does Collin Sexton handling the ball as a #1 or #2 make your team better" and right now that answer is no.

I think Sexton is a really good player--but his ideal role is that of a '3rd wheel' like Love was during the Finals runs. A role where not much is asked of him outside of scoring and bringing the ball up court a bit. Thats why I think him being the #3 in Miami next to Butler and Bam is probably the best situation for his career. Not being the lead guard on the rebuilding, horrible Cavs that are trying to figure this roster out.

-Love's disdain is well documented =SO WHAT... LOVE IS A UNRELIABLE CHUMP
-There were reports about 'anonymous veterans' not being happy with Sexton last year...YEP LOVE
-Other teams are saying 'you know hes not going to pass it to you'- YEP ITS NOT A GOOD IDEA TO PASS IT TO THE OTHER TEAM
-Windler/Okoro on multiple occasions looked visibly frustrated with him not seeing them, shrugging their shoulders-NICE TRY
-The Cavs dont seem willing to give him a Max - NO PROOF HE WAS EVER GETTING IT ANYWAY

[LivingLegend]

I dont mean to dredge up old arguments but since you mentioned this... Beilein took ownership of that play after the game where Love got pissed off Sexton stood right next to Beilein pounding the air out of the ball letting the clock run down and even Love admitted later his error in judgement.
Sexton for all the criticism he gets for not doing what the fkn coaches want is laughable because he is mostly trying to do what they want except for the few moments a game when he says awe f you coach I got this...
That instance is clearly one standing right next to the coach who tells him to hold and poor angry little kev threw a baby tantrum

The thing about Collin man you need to understand is that when there is smoke, there is fire. He has been at the receiving end of a LOT of critisism for the way he plays and he has only been in the league 3 years.

-Love's disdain is well documented
-There were reports about 'anonymous veterans' not being happy with Sexton last year
-Other teams are saying 'you know hes not going to pass it to you'
-Windler/Okoro on multiple occasions looked visibly frustrated with him not seeing them, shrugging their shoulders
-The Cavs dont seem willing to give him a Max

I think everybody agrees Sexton is a great ISO scorer--the question is "Does Collin Sexton handling the ball as a #1 or #2 make your team better" and right now that answer is no.

I think Sexton is a really good player--but his ideal role is that of a '3rd wheel' like Love was during the Finals runs. A role where not much is asked of him outside of scoring and bringing the ball up court a bit. Thats why I think him being the #3 in Miami next to Butler and Bam is probably the best situation for his career. Not being the lead guard on the rebuilding, horrible Cavs that are trying to figure this roster out.

-Love's disdain is well documented =SO WHAT... LOVE IS A UNRELIABLE CHUMP
-There were reports about 'anonymous veterans' not being happy with Sexton last year...YEP LOVE
-Other teams are saying 'you know hes not going to pass it to you'- YEP ITS NOT A GOOD IDEA TO PASS IT TO THE OTHER TEAM
-Windler/Okoro on multiple occasions looked visibly frustrated with him not seeing them, shrugging their shoulders-NICE TRY
-The Cavs dont seem willing to give him a Max - NO PROOF HE WAS EVER GETTING IT ANYWAY

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2804398-report-cavaliers-veterans-dont-think-collin-sexton-knows-how-to-play

https://fadeawayworld.net/nba-media/nba-rumors-cavs-veterans-resented-collin-sexton-upset-the-front-office-didnt-trade-that-pick-in-the-middle-of-the-2017-18-season

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/01/kevin-love-collin-sexton

https://ftw.usatoday.com/2020/01/kevin-love-collin-sexton

https://www.inquisitr.com/6490150/cavaliers-may-consider-trading-collin-sexton-due-to-unwillingnes

[JonFromVA]

Terrific post, and I just wish we had more leadership on the team that would work with Collin to help him see these things.

I get the impression Delly tried, but that big blow up with Love/Sexton/Beilein was supposedly about Beilein letting Collin just pound the air out of the ball.

I dont mean to dredge up old arguments but since you mentioned this... Beilein took ownership of that play after the game where Love got pissed off Sexton stood right next to Beilein pounding the air out of the ball letting the clock run down and even Love admitted later his error in judgement.
Sexton for all the criticism he gets for not doing what the fkn coaches want is laughable because he is mostly trying to do what they want except for the few moments a game when he says awe f you coach I got this...
That instance is clearly one standing right next to the coach who tells him to hold and poor angry little kev threw a baby tantrum

The thing about Collin man you need to understand is that when there is smoke, there is fire. He has been at the receiving end of a LOT of critisism for the way he plays and he has only been in the league 3 years.

-Love's disdain is well documented
-There were reports about 'anonymous veterans' not being happy with Sexton last year
-Other teams are saying 'you know hes not going to pass it to you'
-Windler/Okoro on multiple occasions looked visibly frustrated with him not seeing them, shrugging their shoulders
-The Cavs dont seem willing to give him a Max

I think everybody agrees Sexton is a great ISO scorer--the question is "Does Collin Sexton handling the ball as a #1 or #2 make your team better" and right now that answer is no.

I think Sexton is a really good player--but his ideal role is that of a '3rd wheel' like Love was during the Finals runs. A role where not much is asked of him outside of scoring and bringing the ball up court a bit. Thats why I think him being the #3 in Miami next to Butler and Bam is probably the best situation for his career. Not being the lead guard on the rebuilding, horrible Cavs that are trying to figure this roster out.

Yep, players don't typically throw tantrums and leak things to reporters unless their frustration level has already hit the proverbial fan. And it's one thing to talk bad about a coach, and something else to do so about a teammate to a reporter.

I remember one thing Mike Brown convinced the players of back in his first go round was that they should all keep their problems and criticisms in-house. So, the lack of leaks from those days doesn't mean there weren't internal arguments and dysfunction going on, but it wasn't getting out to the press and making the organization look like a **** show.

However, the only way that works long-term is if those issues are addressed.

If we actually do trade Collin in order to dump Kevin, it will be very telling and kind of ironic.

[Stillwater]

The thing about Collin man you need to understand is that when there is smoke, there is fire. He has been at the receiving end of a LOT of critisism for the way he plays and he has only been in the league 3 years.

-Love's disdain is well documented
-There were reports about 'anonymous veterans' not being happy with Sexton last year
-Other teams are saying 'you know hes not going to pass it to you'
-Windler/Okoro on multiple occasions looked visibly frustrated with him not seeing them, shrugging their shoulders
-The Cavs dont seem willing to give him a Max

I think everybody agrees Sexton is a great ISO scorer--the question is "Does Collin Sexton handling the ball as a #1 or #2 make your team better" and right now that answer is no.

I think Sexton is a really good player--but his ideal role is that of a '3rd wheel' like Love was during the Finals runs. A role where not much is asked of him outside of scoring and bringing the ball up court a bit. Thats why I think him being the #3 in Miami next to Butler and Bam is probably the best situation for his career. Not being the lead guard on the rebuilding, horrible Cavs that are trying to figure this roster out.

You aint educating anyone providing stupid links to stupid boring stories about disgruntled complainers ...I dont give a flying F what his teammates think about him

[Stillwater]

I dont mean to dredge up old arguments but since you mentioned this... Beilein took ownership of that play after the game where Love got pissed off Sexton stood right next to Beilein pounding the air out of the ball letting the clock run down and even Love admitted later his error in judgement.
Sexton for all the criticism he gets for not doing what the fkn coaches want is laughable because he is mostly trying to do what they want except for the few moments a game when he says awe f you coach I got this...
That instance is clearly one standing right next to the coach who tells him to hold and poor angry little kev threw a baby tantrum

The thing about Collin man you need to understand is that when there is smoke, there is fire. He has been at the receiving end of a LOT of critisism for the way he plays and he has only been in the league 3 years.

-Love's disdain is well documented
-There were reports about 'anonymous veterans' not being happy with Sexton last year
-Other teams are saying 'you know hes not going to pass it to you'
-Windler/Okoro on multiple occasions looked visibly frustrated with him not seeing them, shrugging their shoulders
-The Cavs dont seem willing to give him a Max

I think everybody agrees Sexton is a great ISO scorer--the question is "Does Collin Sexton handling the ball as a #1 or #2 make your team better" and right now that answer is no.

I think Sexton is a really good player--but his ideal role is that of a '3rd wheel' like Love was during the Finals runs. A role where not much is asked of him outside of scoring and bringing the ball up court a bit. Thats why I think him being the #3 in Miami next to Butler and Bam is probably the best situation for his career. Not being the lead guard on the rebuilding, horrible Cavs that are trying to figure this roster out.

Yep, players don't typically throw tantrums and leak things to reporters unless their frustration level has already hit the proverbial fan. And it's one thing to talk bad about a coach, and something else to do so about a teammate to a reporter.

I remember one thing Mike Brown convinced the players of back in his first go round was that they should all keep their problems and criticisms in-house. So, the lack of leaks from those days doesn't mean there weren't internal arguments and dysfunction going on, but it wasn't getting out to the press and making the organization look like a **** show.

However, the only way that works long-term is if those issues are addressed.

If we actually do trade Collin in order to dump Kevin, it will be very telling and kind of ironic.

Still dreaming of the day Sexton is traded eh lol give it up man you two are like the biggest Sexton haters and yet put him on a good team and the fanbase would love him. So many Cavs fans just need something to bitch about and never seem to get it right

[JonFromVA]

The thing about Collin man you need to understand is that when there is smoke, there is fire. He has been at the receiving end of a LOT of critisism for the way he plays and he has only been in the league 3 years.

-Love's disdain is well documented
-There were reports about 'anonymous veterans' not being happy with Sexton last year
-Other teams are saying 'you know hes not going to pass it to you'
-Windler/Okoro on multiple occasions looked visibly frustrated with him not seeing them, shrugging their shoulders
-The Cavs dont seem willing to give him a Max

I think everybody agrees Sexton is a great ISO scorer--the question is "Does Collin Sexton handling the ball as a #1 or #2 make your team better" and right now that answer is no.

I think Sexton is a really good player--but his ideal role is that of a '3rd wheel' like Love was during the Finals runs. A role where not much is asked of him outside of scoring and bringing the ball up court a bit. Thats why I think him being the #3 in Miami next to Butler and Bam is probably the best situation for his career. Not being the lead guard on the rebuilding, horrible Cavs that are trying to figure this roster out.

Yep, players don't typically throw tantrums and leak things to reporters unless their frustration level has already hit the proverbial fan. And it's one thing to talk bad about a coach, and something else to do so about a teammate to a reporter.

I remember one thing Mike Brown convinced the players of back in his first go round was that they should all keep their problems and criticisms in-house. So, the lack of leaks from those days doesn't mean there weren't internal arguments and dysfunction going on, but it wasn't getting out to the press and making the organization look like a **** show.

However, the only way that works long-term is if those issues are addressed.

If we actually do trade Collin in order to dump Kevin, it will be very telling and kind of ironic.

Still dreaming of the day Sexton is traded eh lol give it up man you two are like the biggest Sexton haters and yet put him on a good team and the fanbase would love him. So many Cavs fans just need something to bitch about and never seem to get it right

Facts are pretty inconvenient, eh?