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Trade Ideas

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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2281 » by JonFromVA » Fri May 30, 2025 3:50 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
If you trade Garland for Franz, you absolutely have to move Allen as well in order to save your floor spacing


There's a chance Wagner gets his 3pt shooting straightened out, but again not the sort of thing I like having to bet on when giving up a player of Garland's caliber.


One serious concern I'd have about trading Garland to the Magic is he's perfect for them. They're a young team as well who could spend the next 5 years beating us in the playoffs if we help fix them.

As far as Franz, I think you could play him at PF. I suspect he's a more natural 4 but Banchero is in his way.


I will point out the +/- numbers love Franz and maybe it's because he's often the closest thing they have to a decent playmaker on the floor, but I'd expect they'd take a heavy hit trading him and hence would be extremely reluctant to give him up unless they go stupid.

For instance, the Magic were -6.5 when Wagner was off the floor this season; by comparison the Cavs were still +7.2 when Mitchell sat.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2282 » by JujitsuFlip » Fri May 30, 2025 5:06 pm

JonFromVA wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
JonFromVA wrote:
There's a chance Wagner gets his 3pt shooting straightened out, but again not the sort of thing I like having to bet on when giving up a player of Garland's caliber.


One serious concern I'd have about trading Garland to the Magic is he's perfect for them. They're a young team as well who could spend the next 5 years beating us in the playoffs if we help fix them.

As far as Franz, I think you could play him at PF. I suspect he's a more natural 4 but Banchero is in his way.


I will point out the +/- numbers love Franz and maybe it's because he's often the closest thing they have to a decent playmaker on the floor, but I'd expect they'd take a heavy hit trading him and hence would be extremely reluctant to give him up unless they go stupid.

For instance, the Magic were -6.5 when Wagner was off the floor this season; by comparison the Cavs were still +7.2 when Mitchell sat.
Mosley is also one of the worst offensive minds in the NBA though.

By contrast, Kenny one of the best. Cavs had the #1 offensive rating in both the regular season and playoffs.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2283 » by jbk1234 » Fri May 30, 2025 9:20 pm

Sometimes it can to be difficult to know when Fedor is signaling on behalf of the Cavs and when he's projecting his preferences. Those Suggs comments were awfully specific, but he's always been down in Garland (he was a huge Sexton stan) and he was very publicly angry about the Cavs asking price for Garland last summer.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2284 » by JujitsuFlip » Fri May 30, 2025 11:08 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Sometimes it can to be difficult to know when Fedor is signaling on behalf of the Cavs and when he's projecting his preferences. Those Suggs comments were awfully specific, but he's always been down in Garland (he was a huge Sexton stan) and he was very publicly angry about the Cavs asking price for Garland last summer.
Great point. I didn't know how to take his 'report'. I know he's plugged in but idk to what degree.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2285 » by jbk1234 » Sun Jun 8, 2025 11:28 pm

jbk1234 wrote:Sometimes it can to be difficult to know when Fedor is signaling on behalf of the Cavs and when he's projecting his preferences. Those Suggs comments were awfully specific, but he's always been down in Garland (he was a huge Sexton stan) and he was very publicly angry about the Cavs asking price for Garland last summer.


Update:
https://www.fearthesword.com/2025/6/8/24445550/nba-trade-rumor-cavs-darius-garland-orland-magic-jalen-suggs-cleveland-cavaliers
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2286 » by toooskies » Mon Jun 9, 2025 1:41 pm

Now that the Wine & Gold podcast is on all the time, he has to verbalize a lot more speculation than before. He has to air his opinions more often. They may be somewhat informed-- often based on discussions with sources-- but I don't think it's ever as straightforward as the Cavs using him as their official mouthpiece.

I don't think it's to the Cavs' advantage in their current situation to have so much Garland-on-the-trade-block chatter out there simply because it's going to be hard to make a deal work and it's likely that he's back next season.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2287 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jun 9, 2025 1:46 pm

toooskies wrote:Now that the Wine & Gold podcast is on all the time, he has to verbalize a lot more speculation than before. He has to air his opinions more often. They may be somewhat informed-- often based on discussions with sources-- but I don't think it's ever as straightforward as the Cavs using him as their official mouthpiece.

I don't think it's to the Cavs' advantage in their current situation to have so much Garland-on-the-trade-block chatter out there simply because it's going to be hard to make a deal work and it's likely that he's back next season.


If they want to flush out offers before July 1st, it makes some sense, but if this website is any indication of Garland's trade value, he's going to be on the roster next season.

As far as Fedor, his personal analysis is poorly informed and riddled with criticism that really isn't quantifiable. Garland as injury prone is a fair critique. Garland as undersized is fair as well. All the psychobabble nonsense about Mobley and him being mentally ready or tough enough is garbage. Fedor

If anything, Garland is now a great example as to why agents encourage their clients not to attempt to play through a serious injury regardless of the circumstances. It's why they encourage their clients not to rush back from a broken jaw after losing 20 lbs. People take tried to play on one leg and turn it into not a playoff guy. Now Garland is facing both criticisms.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2288 » by toooskies » Mon Jun 9, 2025 2:54 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:Now that the Wine & Gold podcast is on all the time, he has to verbalize a lot more speculation than before. He has to air his opinions more often. They may be somewhat informed-- often based on discussions with sources-- but I don't think it's ever as straightforward as the Cavs using him as their official mouthpiece.

I don't think it's to the Cavs' advantage in their current situation to have so much Garland-on-the-trade-block chatter out there simply because it's going to be hard to make a deal work and it's likely that he's back next season.


If they want to flush out offers before July 1st, it makes some sense, but if this website is any indication of Garland's trade value, he's going to be on the roster next season.

As far as Fedor, his personal analysis is poorly informed and riddled with criticism that really isn't quantifiable. Garland as injury prone is a fair critique. Garland as undersized is fair as well. All the psychobabble nonsense about Mobley and him being mentally ready or tough enough is garbage. Fedor

If anything, Garland is now a great example as to why agents encourage their clients not to attempt to play through a serious injury regardless of the circumstances. It's why they encourage their clients not to rush back from a broken jaw after losing 20 lbs. People take tried to play on one leg and turn it into not a playoff guy. Now Garland is facing both criticisms.

Second year in a row the Cavs have applied the Questionable tag on a core player in the playoffs when they knew that player should be out for weeks and came out of it with toughness questions being asked of that player. They aren't doing themselves any favors by leaving open the miracle window.

Realistically, what offer are the Cavs trying to smoke out though? There's so few opportunities that work from value/fit/money standpoint that you realistically just make the 2-3 calls that might interest you and then call it a day.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2289 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jun 9, 2025 3:01 pm

toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:Now that the Wine & Gold podcast is on all the time, he has to verbalize a lot more speculation than before. He has to air his opinions more often. They may be somewhat informed-- often based on discussions with sources-- but I don't think it's ever as straightforward as the Cavs using him as their official mouthpiece.

I don't think it's to the Cavs' advantage in their current situation to have so much Garland-on-the-trade-block chatter out there simply because it's going to be hard to make a deal work and it's likely that he's back next season.


If they want to flush out offers before July 1st, it makes some sense, but if this website is any indication of Garland's trade value, he's going to be on the roster next season.

As far as Fedor, his personal analysis is poorly informed and riddled with criticism that really isn't quantifiable. Garland as injury prone is a fair critique. Garland as undersized is fair as well. All the psychobabble nonsense about Mobley and him being mentally ready or tough enough is garbage. Fedor

If anything, Garland is now a great example as to why agents encourage their clients not to attempt to play through a serious injury regardless of the circumstances. It's why they encourage their clients not to rush back from a broken jaw after losing 20 lbs. People take tried to play on one leg and turn it into not a playoff guy. Now Garland is facing both criticisms.

Second year in a row the Cavs have applied the Questionable tag on a core player in the playoffs when they knew that player should be out for weeks and came out of it with toughness questions being asked of that player. They aren't doing themselves any favors by leaving open the miracle window.

Realistically, what offer are the Cavs trying to smoke out though? There's so few opportunities that work from value/fit/money standpoint that you realistically just make the 2-3 calls that might interest you and then call it a day.


I think this is aimed first and foremost at Giannis. The Pelicans have a new GM who isn't as invested in their personnel. The Nets have Cam Johnson, cap space, and picks. Durant is also out there.

I suspect that Giannis and Durant freeze the market for a bit though so it may not be doable.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2290 » by toooskies » Mon Jun 9, 2025 4:22 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
If they want to flush out offers before July 1st, it makes some sense, but if this website is any indication of Garland's trade value, he's going to be on the roster next season.

As far as Fedor, his personal analysis is poorly informed and riddled with criticism that really isn't quantifiable. Garland as injury prone is a fair critique. Garland as undersized is fair as well. All the psychobabble nonsense about Mobley and him being mentally ready or tough enough is garbage. Fedor

If anything, Garland is now a great example as to why agents encourage their clients not to attempt to play through a serious injury regardless of the circumstances. It's why they encourage their clients not to rush back from a broken jaw after losing 20 lbs. People take tried to play on one leg and turn it into not a playoff guy. Now Garland is facing both criticisms.

Second year in a row the Cavs have applied the Questionable tag on a core player in the playoffs when they knew that player should be out for weeks and came out of it with toughness questions being asked of that player. They aren't doing themselves any favors by leaving open the miracle window.

Realistically, what offer are the Cavs trying to smoke out though? There's so few opportunities that work from value/fit/money standpoint that you realistically just make the 2-3 calls that might interest you and then call it a day.


I think this is aimed first and foremost at Giannis. The Pelicans have a new GM who isn't as invested in their personnel. The Nets have Cam Johnson, cap space, and picks. Durant is also out there.

I suspect that Giannis and Durant freeze the market for a bit though so it may not be doable.

Garland isn't a Giannis centerpiece without a bunch of picks that the Cavs don't have. This becomes a Mobley+Garland deal or it doesn't happen. In which case the story isn't that you're listening to offers for Garland.

The Cavs could simply cut cash with Brooklyn but I have no interest in Cam Johnson when we have Hunter at home.

KD isn't worth the apron concessions needed to acquire him. Cavs could do Garland + (Okoro + Hunter to BRK) out and KD in, but they're only at 9 roster spots filled and not much salary to go around. (Merrill for $5m as 8th man if we're lucky, PG depth is Mitchell/CPJ, SG is Strus/Merrill, SF is KD/Tyson, PF is Mobley/Wade, C is Allen/???.... don't love it.)
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2291 » by jbk1234 » Mon Jun 9, 2025 4:49 pm

toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:Second year in a row the Cavs have applied the Questionable tag on a core player in the playoffs when they knew that player should be out for weeks and came out of it with toughness questions being asked of that player. They aren't doing themselves any favors by leaving open the miracle window.

Realistically, what offer are the Cavs trying to smoke out though? There's so few opportunities that work from value/fit/money standpoint that you realistically just make the 2-3 calls that might interest you and then call it a day.


I think this is aimed first and foremost at Giannis. The Pelicans have a new GM who isn't as invested in their personnel. The Nets have Cam Johnson, cap space, and picks. Durant is also out there.

I suspect that Giannis and Durant freeze the market for a bit though so it may not be doable.

Garland isn't a Giannis centerpiece without a bunch of picks that the Cavs don't have. This becomes a Mobley+Garland deal or it doesn't happen. In which case the story isn't that you're listening to offers for Garland.

The Cavs could simply cut cash with Brooklyn but I have no interest in Cam Johnson when we have Hunter at home.

KD isn't worth the apron concessions needed to acquire him. Cavs could do Garland + (Okoro + Hunter to BRK) out and KD in, but they're only at 9 roster spots filled and not much salary to go around. (Merrill for $5m as 8th man if we're lucky, PG depth is Mitchell/CPJ, SG is Strus/Merrill, SF is KD/Tyson, PF is Mobley/Wade, C is Allen/???.... don't love it.)


It's kind of difficult to know what the best offer for Giannis will be without knowing whether he's asked out, has a list, and is willing to extend. Someone has to make a best offer for there to be a best offer.

With Cam, having multiple 6'8" guys who can shoot is valuable. All of a sudden it's easier to include Okoro in rotations at the 2. You bring back Ty and have a conversation about what the offense in that second unit needs to look like next season. You also slice a considerable chunk of salary off the books. Hopefully you pick up some draft capital that we can use in trades going forward. I could at least understand the logic even if I prefer keeping Garland.

You left out the Pelicans and Tre Murphy who is one of the few players I could see trading Garland for and eventually winning the trade.

I don't want to trade Garland. He has the best floor vision and basketball IQ on the team. He's been asked to sacrifice more than any other player as a result of adding Mitchell. I'm also really nervous about the prospect of trading Garland, disappointing again in the playoffs, and Mitchell making a trade request. I don't get to make that call though and I'm trying to envision scenarios where there's at least an identifiable logic to the trade. You know, as opposed the Garland for meh and duplicative bench player trades popping up on the T&T board.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2292 » by toooskies » Mon Jun 9, 2025 6:01 pm

jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
I think this is aimed first and foremost at Giannis. The Pelicans have a new GM who isn't as invested in their personnel. The Nets have Cam Johnson, cap space, and picks. Durant is also out there.

I suspect that Giannis and Durant freeze the market for a bit though so it may not be doable.

Garland isn't a Giannis centerpiece without a bunch of picks that the Cavs don't have. This becomes a Mobley+Garland deal or it doesn't happen. In which case the story isn't that you're listening to offers for Garland.

The Cavs could simply cut cash with Brooklyn but I have no interest in Cam Johnson when we have Hunter at home.

KD isn't worth the apron concessions needed to acquire him. Cavs could do Garland + (Okoro + Hunter to BRK) out and KD in, but they're only at 9 roster spots filled and not much salary to go around. (Merrill for $5m as 8th man if we're lucky, PG depth is Mitchell/CPJ, SG is Strus/Merrill, SF is KD/Tyson, PF is Mobley/Wade, C is Allen/???.... don't love it.)


It's kind of difficult to know what the best offer for Giannis will be without knowing whether he's asked out, has a list, and is willing to extend. Someone has to make a best offer for there to be a best offer.

With Cam, having multiple 6'8" guys who can shoot is valuable. All of a sudden it's easier to include Okoro in rotations at the 2. You bring back Ty and have a conversation about what the offense in that second unit needs to look like next season. You also slice a considerable chunk of salary off the books. Hopefully you pick up some draft capital that we can use in trades going forward. I could at least understand the logic even if I prefer keeping Garland.

You left out the Pelicans and Tre Murphy who is one of the few players I could see trading Garland for and eventually winning the trade.

I don't want to trade Garland. He has the best floor vision and basketball IQ on the team. He's been asked to sacrifice more than any other player as a result of adding Mitchell. I'm also really nervous about the prospect of trading Garland, disappointing again in the playoffs, and Mitchell making a trade request. I don't get to make that call though and I'm trying to envision scenarios where there's at least an identifiable logic to the trade. You know, as opposed the Garland for meh and duplicative bench player trades popping up on the T&T board.

I just assume that the minimum is Hartenstein/Joe/Wiggins and all the picks from OKC, and if I'm Milwaukee I'm looping NOP in and trying to flip Hartenstein into Milwaukee's owed draft capital and McCollum or Murray salary.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2293 » by jbk1234 » Wed Jun 11, 2025 5:51 pm

toooskies wrote:
jbk1234 wrote:
toooskies wrote:Garland isn't a Giannis centerpiece without a bunch of picks that the Cavs don't have. This becomes a Mobley+Garland deal or it doesn't happen. In which case the story isn't that you're listening to offers for Garland.

The Cavs could simply cut cash with Brooklyn but I have no interest in Cam Johnson when we have Hunter at home.

KD isn't worth the apron concessions needed to acquire him. Cavs could do Garland + (Okoro + Hunter to BRK) out and KD in, but they're only at 9 roster spots filled and not much salary to go around. (Merrill for $5m as 8th man if we're lucky, PG depth is Mitchell/CPJ, SG is Strus/Merrill, SF is KD/Tyson, PF is Mobley/Wade, C is Allen/???.... don't love it.)


It's kind of difficult to know what the best offer for Giannis will be without knowing whether he's asked out, has a list, and is willing to extend. Someone has to make a best offer for there to be a best offer.

With Cam, having multiple 6'8" guys who can shoot is valuable. All of a sudden it's easier to include Okoro in rotations at the 2. You bring back Ty and have a conversation about what the offense in that second unit needs to look like next season. You also slice a considerable chunk of salary off the books. Hopefully you pick up some draft capital that we can use in trades going forward. I could at least understand the logic even if I prefer keeping Garland.

You left out the Pelicans and Tre Murphy who is one of the few players I could see trading Garland for and eventually winning the trade.

I don't want to trade Garland. He has the best floor vision and basketball IQ on the team. He's been asked to sacrifice more than any other player as a result of adding Mitchell. I'm also really nervous about the prospect of trading Garland, disappointing again in the playoffs, and Mitchell making a trade request. I don't get to make that call though and I'm trying to envision scenarios where there's at least an identifiable logic to the trade. You know, as opposed the Garland for meh and duplicative bench player trades popping up on the T&T board.

I just assume that the minimum is Hartenstein/Joe/Wiggins and all the picks from OKC, and if I'm Milwaukee I'm looping NOP in and trying to flip Hartenstein into Milwaukee's owed draft capital and McCollum or Murray salary.


If OKC wins a championship this season, they may be disinclined to add a player who's going to earn 35% of the cap. At that point, hold back on the picks and offer Williams and/or Chet because you won't be able to retain them both anyway. I don't know that you can retain Dort.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2294 » by jbk1234 » Wed Jun 11, 2025 6:00 pm

It's getting embarrassing at this point.

Read on Twitter
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2295 » by daoneandonly » Yesterday 7:37 pm

WIth Tatum out in a wide open East, would there be any legs to an AD/Jaden Hardy for Mobley/Strus/Okoro trade? Or DOA given ages, availability, etc?
Deuteronomy 30:19 wrote:I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and curse. Therefore choose life, that you and your offspring may live
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2296 » by JujitsuFlip » Yesterday 8:22 pm

daoneandonly wrote:WIth Tatum out in a wide open East, would there be any legs to an AD/Jaden Hardy for Mobley/Strus/Okoro trade? Or DOA given ages, availability, etc?
Yeah, no chance.

Mobley just won DPOY, is 24, and locked up for 5 more years.

AD is 32, injury prone, and more expensive.

Any AD trade for Mobley would have to include the #1 pick and i think the Cavs would still say no. Because we have no idea what Flagg even is.

If ya wanna do Gafford for Strus though, i can be talked into it.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2297 » by toooskies » Yesterday 8:50 pm

daoneandonly wrote:WIth Tatum out in a wide open East, would there be any legs to an AD/Jaden Hardy for Mobley/Strus/Okoro trade? Or DOA given ages, availability, etc?

The number of years AD might be a better player than Mobley objectively may already be over-- or if not, perhaps only 1-2 years before that stops being true. And that's if AD stays healthy.

Even if Cleveland valued AD higher, Cleveland would need to cut a ton of salary to stay out of the 2nd apron to take AD's bigger salary and Dallas can't take on that salary.

You could build Garland/Allen for AD, but more realistically if the two teams are talking, the most likely outcome may be Mitchell for Flagg/salary. The Cavs try to be good later, Dallas goes for a title now.
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Re: Trade Ideas 

Post#2298 » by jbk1234 » Yesterday 10:09 pm

daoneandonly wrote:WIth Tatum out in a wide open East, would there be any legs to an AD/Jaden Hardy for Mobley/Strus/Okoro trade? Or DOA given ages, availability, etc?


DOA based on any number of factors.
cbosh4mvp wrote:
Jarret Allen isn’t winning you anything. Garland won’t show up in the playoffs. Mobley is a glorified dunk man. Mitchell has some experience but is a liability on defense. To me, the Cavs are a treadmill team.

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