Trade Ideas (Part III)

[LivingLegend]

So it's not actually based on anything other than how The Athletic ranked people. I think that's less reliable IMO.

Can you read it? Its all based on metrics they track and list as BOARD$, EPM Wins, OEPM, ODPM, RAPM, ORAPM and DRAPM.

There are actual metrics tracked behind the rankings its not just some random writers personal list.

It's behind a paywall, I'm not gonna pay for it.

Here are some snippits

Hollinger’s BORD$ projections, essentially an estimate of players’ likely production in the coming season based on an amalgam of single-number metrics combined with aging effects and a minutes estimate.

Estimated Plus/Minus (EPM) and EPM Wins: Created by former Jazz analytics staffer Taylor Snarr, EPM appears to be the most robust of the currently available alphabet soup of single-season player value metrics. The short version is that EPM combines box score, play-by-play, and player tracking data derived statistical accumulation with RAPM methodology (more on that in a second) to create a pretty robust estimate of a player’s contribution to the scoreboard moving in a positive direction for his team. EPM is expressed as +/- points/100 possessions in much the same way as RAPM, while EPM wins takes that rating, and combines it with the amount of playing time the player received this past season to estimate the number of additional wins the “produced” for their team.

Regularized Adjusted Plus/Minus (RAPM): One of the granddaddies of single number metrics, RAPM controls for who a player appears on the floor with and plays against to create a similar per/100 estimate of value. RAPM does not include the statistical prior — the box score and other stats — which make EPM more accurate on a single-season basis. However, I am using the three-season version of RAPM created by Ryan Davis of NBAShotCharts.com, which provides a solid longer-term estimate of performance by measuring across multiple seasons. The “ranks” for offensive, defensive and overall RAPM are out of the 755 players included in Ryan’s 2018-2021 model.


Collin Sexton Tier 5
BOARD$ is 9.5M
EPM Wins is 3.5
OEPM is .97
DEPM is -.155
ORAPM is .20
DRAPM is -3.79

His is in high Tier 5. About Tier 5, the above average rotation players: Since we won’t discuss each player in Tier 5 in turn as we will for Tiers 1-4, it’s worth identifying what this level of players includes in broad strokes. While at any given time there are around 250-275 regular rotation players in the NBA, half or more are somewhat fungible. The term “just a guy” has been used at times. Discussing a team’s seventh man in possible trade discussions, an evaluator might say, “I like him as a player, but he’s just a guy.” Meaning he’ll give competent minutes, but won’t move the needle much, especially in a playoff setting. By contrast, Tier 5 is where guys start to matter a little more. They won’t affect every matchup, and will be more useful in some situations than others, but this first group of above average rotation players can be the little something extra that pushes a team over the top in an otherwise close matchup.

[Stillwater]

What imaginary team is this? Because there are 30 actual ones and he plays on one of them already

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

lol who is the best scorer on the Cavs? its your most favorite topic of the summer...the latest reports from the same clowns that said he was on the block are now saying he is getting extension proving they have no credibility at all.
Sexton will gladly stay on a max extension but I am guess you wont when that happens smh
If he came out and had a Dame type season would you change your tune or would you just keep on sticking with the dying takes

Or it means that they tried to trade him and there was no takers for a fair offer so now they are resigning him.

Sure thing buddy smh who in the fk would trade somebody when their value is lowest which it is given he could walk from anywhere he goes... who the fk would trade for somebody like that unless they could not get him in FA next summer. Trust me if the Cavs low ball him he will be gone and you and Jb can have your little DG for King Nothing award ceremony just the two of you gtfo with this shh I am done with them anyway

[LivingLegend]

lol who is the best scorer on the Cavs? its your most favorite topic of the summer...the latest reports from the same clowns that said he was on the block are now saying he is getting extension proving they have no credibility at all.
Sexton will gladly stay on a max extension but I am guess you wont when that happens smh
If he came out and had a Dame type season would you change your tune or would you just keep on sticking with the dying takes

Or it means that they tried to trade him and there was no takers for a fair offer so now they are resigning him.

Sure thing buddy smh who in the fk would trade somebody when their value is lowest which it is given he could walk from anywhere he goes... who the fk would trade for somebody like that unless they could not get him in FA next summer. Trust me if the Cavs low ball him he will be gone and you and Jb can have your little DG for King Nothing award ceremony just the two of you gtfo with this shh I am done with them anyway

Did you by chance look at all that data I posted above?

[Stillwater]

Or it means that they tried to trade him and there was no takers for a fair offer so now they are resigning him.

Sure thing buddy smh who in the fk would trade somebody when their value is lowest which it is given he could walk from anywhere he goes... who the fk would trade for somebody like that unless they could not get him in FA next summer. Trust me if the Cavs low ball him he will be gone and you and Jb can have your little DG for King Nothing award ceremony just the two of you gtfo with this shh I am done with them anyway

Did you by chance look at all that data I posted above?

Great if you think he is done getting better...he aint not by a country mile

[JonFromVA]

I think using a couple atypical shooting performances to justify a clutch label and then paying him anywhere near what he's seeking is a really, really bad idea. Terrance Ross had a 50 point game on his rookie contract and not a single one since in almost a decade. If Sexton could shoot that well from distance consistently there'd be no debate. But he can't, so instead he regularly looks to drive into the teeth of the defense in the final couple minutes and the results are what they are.

Whoa ... a $20M signing will help us re-sign our other picks. He's not TRoss. He can shoot if given enough space and he drives in to the teeth of the defense because we can't spread the floor and he doesn't always find the shooters we have. If he only had to beat his man and a late helper, he'd be extremely hard to stop.

He's still young and improving and at $20M he should also be tradeable, so even if we can't use him we should be able to flip him a lot easier. He wouldn't be a one year rental to the team acquiring him.

I also expect the Cavs have already put a deal in the $20M area on the table. They may be refusing to max him, but I doubt they're playing "hardball".

I'm not debating what the Cavs will do, only what they should do. I would not extend him at all, because one you do, he's untradable this season to any team outside of maybe the Thunder. If you decide you want to move him midseason, the BYC makes it impossible.

I don't get the idea behind gauging his trade market, finding it wanting, and then paying him big money anyway. I really don't.

I don't think spreading the floor for Sexton will be as easy as people pretend. He has weaknesses that need to be compensated for by other types of personnel, and they're not easy to come by.

Please ... when did the compromises ever stop the Cavs from spreading the floor for LeBron James so he could more easily score points and give us a shot to catch an opponent?

I can actually point you to the data for LeBron with shooting lineups and you can draw whatever conclusion you'd like about their effectiveness .vs. the defensive lineups. However, we lack decent data for Collin because of the injuries and the lack of NBA quality backups. So we can't actually point to anything much beyond that fact that in his 20 clutch opportunities, he scored in volume and efficiently.

The idea of gauging his trade market is a reality check. Hopefully for both sides. If his agent was right, then there should have been a team out there willing to give something up of value (at the very least equal to the #8 pick we used to draft him). Getting him signed at a fair market value makes it easier for the Cavs to keep him OR trade him to a team better able to utilize his talents.

Far better than ending up like Dennis Schroeder.

But hey, if the rumors about the Cavs wanting Collin gone sooner rather than later are true, then we could see a trade go down anytime. But reality is the Knicks and Heat have already moved on and it seems unlikely we're going to get anything better from them than what they reportedly put on the table. We can wait and hope for something better, but that doesn't fit in with the idea that the Cavs are desperate to reset their lineup and move on from Collin.

And while rumors that Kevin Love has been asked to come off the bench having been going around, we're not hearing anything like that about Collin.

So, just my read (not based on any rumors - the Cavs have kept things quiet). I think at the right price and in my mind the right price is around $20M/yr, we would lock up Collin today. We drafted Evan Mobley, not Jalen Green. There's a spot for Collin at the right price.

[JonFromVA]

So it's not actually based on anything other than how The Athletic ranked people. I think that's less reliable IMO.

Can you read it? Its all based on metrics they track and list as BOARD$, EPM Wins, OEPM, ODPM, RAPM, ORAPM and DRAPM.

There are actual metrics tracked behind the rankings its not just some random writers personal list.

Just a few:

RAPM- Regularized Adjusted plus/minus. Attempts to isolate that players impact.
EPM- Estimated Plus/Minus. Is +/- points/100

This is the kind of stuff the team pulls out when they want to convince a player's agent to accept less, but in reality it's supply and demand. If the Cavs have a reasonable way to replace Collin for the salary they'd like to pay him, they would just do it ... AND ... they've reportedly said they want a young near All-Star player back for Collin which tells us pretty clearly how they value him.

[LivingLegend]

So it's not actually based on anything other than how The Athletic ranked people. I think that's less reliable IMO.

Can you read it? Its all based on metrics they track and list as BOARD$, EPM Wins, OEPM, ODPM, RAPM, ORAPM and DRAPM.

There are actual metrics tracked behind the rankings its not just some random writers personal list.

Just a few:

RAPM- Regularized Adjusted plus/minus. Attempts to isolate that players impact.
EPM- Estimated Plus/Minus. Is +/- points/100

This is the kind of stuff the team pulls out when they want to convince a player's agent to accept less, but in reality it's supply and demand. If the Cavs have a reasonable way to replace Collin for the salary they'd like to pay him, they would just do it ... AND ... they've reportedly said they want a young near All-Star player back for Collin which tells us pretty clearly how they value him.

Its just narrative fitting like all metrics are. People love to use advanced metrics when it helps their argument but immediatly dismiss them when it goes against what they believe. PFF in the NFL is the posterboy for this.

My thing is that if the Cavs were over the moon about Sexton, there would be a lot more talks about the Cavs wanting him and looking for a extension. I truely think they are in a weird middle ground where they dont know what to do so they are doing nothing.

I really believe the Cavs would trade him for a more traditional SG (like Herro) if they had the chance but it doesnt seem like those opportunities are out there so they are just stuck. They dont want to pay him big money longterm because I think deep down they know a 2 PG lineup will not work longterm and they dont want to be committed to that over the next 3-4 years.

[JonFromVA]

Can you read it? Its all based on metrics they track and list as BOARD$, EPM Wins, OEPM, ODPM, RAPM, ORAPM and DRAPM.

There are actual metrics tracked behind the rankings its not just some random writers personal list.

It's behind a paywall, I'm not gonna pay for it.

Here are some snippits

Hollinger’s BORD$ projections, essentially an estimate of players’ likely production in the coming season based on an amalgam of single-number metrics combined with aging effects and a minutes estimate.

Estimated Plus/Minus (EPM) and EPM Wins: Created by former Jazz analytics staffer Taylor Snarr, EPM appears to be the most robust of the currently available alphabet soup of single-season player value metrics. The short version is that EPM combines box score, play-by-play, and player tracking data derived statistical accumulation with RAPM methodology (more on that in a second) to create a pretty robust estimate of a player’s contribution to the scoreboard moving in a positive direction for his team. EPM is expressed as +/- points/100 possessions in much the same way as RAPM, while EPM wins takes that rating, and combines it with the amount of playing time the player received this past season to estimate the number of additional wins the “produced” for their team.

Regularized Adjusted Plus/Minus (RAPM): One of the granddaddies of single number metrics, RAPM controls for who a player appears on the floor with and plays against to create a similar per/100 estimate of value. RAPM does not include the statistical prior — the box score and other stats — which make EPM more accurate on a single-season basis. However, I am using the three-season version of RAPM created by Ryan Davis of NBAShotCharts.com, which provides a solid longer-term estimate of performance by measuring across multiple seasons. The “ranks” for offensive, defensive and overall RAPM are out of the 755 players included in Ryan’s 2018-2021 model.


Collin Sexton Tier 5
BOARD$ is 9.5M
EPM Wins is 3.5
OEPM is .97
DEPM is -.155
ORAPM is .20
DRAPM is -3.79

His is in high Tier 5. About Tier 5, the above average rotation players: Since we won’t discuss each player in Tier 5 in turn as we will for Tiers 1-4, it’s worth identifying what this level of players includes in broad strokes. While at any given time there are around 250-275 regular rotation players in the NBA, half or more are somewhat fungible. The term “just a guy” has been used at times. Discussing a team’s seventh man in possible trade discussions, an evaluator might say, “I like him as a player, but he’s just a guy.” Meaning he’ll give competent minutes, but won’t move the needle much, especially in a playoff setting. By contrast, Tier 5 is where guys start to matter a little more. They won’t affect every matchup, and will be more useful in some situations than others, but this first group of above average rotation players can be the little something extra that pushes a team over the top in an otherwise close matchup.

Collin is still 22 years old and if he is performing at "Tier 5" now, where do think he will be at in a 3-6 years when he may still be on his next contract?

Collin isn't going to get paid based on what he's done on a tank-happy and injury plagued instable Cavs team under 4 coaches in 4 years, etc, etc, but based on what he might do if he his weaknesses can be addressed and his strengths exploited.

[JonFromVA]

Can you read it? Its all based on metrics they track and list as BOARD$, EPM Wins, OEPM, ODPM, RAPM, ORAPM and DRAPM.

There are actual metrics tracked behind the rankings its not just some random writers personal list.

Just a few:

RAPM- Regularized Adjusted plus/minus. Attempts to isolate that players impact.
EPM- Estimated Plus/Minus. Is +/- points/100

This is the kind of stuff the team pulls out when they want to convince a player's agent to accept less, but in reality it's supply and demand. If the Cavs have a reasonable way to replace Collin for the salary they'd like to pay him, they would just do it ... AND ... they've reportedly said they want a young near All-Star player back for Collin which tells us pretty clearly how they value him.

Its just narrative fitting like all metrics are. People love to use advanced metrics when it helps their argument but immediatly dismiss them when it goes against what they believe. PFF in the NFL is the posterboy for this.

My thing is that if the Cavs were over the moon about Sexton, there would be a lot more talks about the Cavs wanting him and looking for a extension. I truely think they are in a weird middle ground where they dont know what to do so they are doing nothing.

I really believe the Cavs would trade him for a more traditional SG (like Herro) if they had the chance but it doesnt seem like those opportunities are out there so they are just stuck. They dont want to pay him big money longterm because I think deep down they know a 2 PG lineup will not work longterm and they dont want to be committed to that over the next 3-4 years.

Oh, stats are great. They inform analysis, but they do not replace analysis and Collin just like every player is unique.

Also , I think Herro was a possibility, maybe even dumping Love in the deal as well; but I don't see why we'd want Herro for our "culture". If the Heat don't want him, that's an even bigger red flag for our young team.

The Cavs certainly have reservations about Collin and going forward with the 2 PG lineup. No doubt about that, but nobody is just going to hand us a legit SG with the same combination of youth and upside as Collin. That's why I scoffed every-time someone would suggest we could get RJ Barrett from the Knicks.

For now ... IMO Sexland is our best option and I see us moving forward with it as we continue to evaluate all our options. Will JBB have the freedom to experiment? We can only hope. Clearly he'd like to get Isaac more touches. There are certainly a lot of possibilities, but these things usually need to play out.

[LivingLegend]

This is the kind of stuff the team pulls out when they want to convince a player's agent to accept less, but in reality it's supply and demand. If the Cavs have a reasonable way to replace Collin for the salary they'd like to pay him, they would just do it ... AND ... they've reportedly said they want a young near All-Star player back for Collin which tells us pretty clearly how they value him.

Its just narrative fitting like all metrics are. People love to use advanced metrics when it helps their argument but immediatly dismiss them when it goes against what they believe. PFF in the NFL is the posterboy for this.

My thing is that if the Cavs were over the moon about Sexton, there would be a lot more talks about the Cavs wanting him and looking for a extension. I truely think they are in a weird middle ground where they dont know what to do so they are doing nothing.

I really believe the Cavs would trade him for a more traditional SG (like Herro) if they had the chance but it doesnt seem like those opportunities are out there so they are just stuck. They dont want to pay him big money longterm because I think deep down they know a 2 PG lineup will not work longterm and they dont want to be committed to that over the next 3-4 years.

Oh, stats are great. They inform analysis, but they do not replace analysis and Collin just like every player is unique.

Also , I think Herro was a possibility, maybe even dumping Love in the deal as well; but I don't see why we'd want Herro for our "culture". If the Heat don't want him, that's an even bigger red flag for our young team.

The Cavs certainly have reservations about Collin and going forward with the 2 PG lineup. No doubt about that, but nobody is just going to hand us a legit SG with the same combination of youth and upside as Collin. That's why I scoffed every-time someone would suggest we could get RJ Barrett from the Knicks.

For now ... IMO Sexland is our best option and I see us moving forward with it as we continue to evaluate all our options. Will JBB have the freedom to experiment? We can only hope. Clearly he'd like to get Isaac more touches. There are certainly a lot of possibilities, but these things usually need to play out.

I dont mind doing that as a bandaid until we figure something else out, I just dont want the 2 PG lineup to be longterm thing. It can be temporary until we find a legit SG with size/off ball ability. Thats why Im concerned about the $$ Sexton will get because I dont want his contract to be immovable when/if we do find a real SG.

Sign him, whatever, just make sure that contract is tradable when the time comes. Dont Kevin Love yourself again.

[toooskies]

Its just narrative fitting like all metrics are. People love to use advanced metrics when it helps their argument but immediatly dismiss them when it goes against what they believe. PFF in the NFL is the posterboy for this.

My thing is that if the Cavs were over the moon about Sexton, there would be a lot more talks about the Cavs wanting him and looking for a extension. I truely think they are in a weird middle ground where they dont know what to do so they are doing nothing.

I really believe the Cavs would trade him for a more traditional SG (like Herro) if they had the chance but it doesnt seem like those opportunities are out there so they are just stuck. They dont want to pay him big money longterm because I think deep down they know a 2 PG lineup will not work longterm and they dont want to be committed to that over the next 3-4 years.

Oh, stats are great. They inform analysis, but they do not replace analysis and Collin just like every player is unique.

Also , I think Herro was a possibility, maybe even dumping Love in the deal as well; but I don't see why we'd want Herro for our "culture". If the Heat don't want him, that's an even bigger red flag for our young team.

The Cavs certainly have reservations about Collin and going forward with the 2 PG lineup. No doubt about that, but nobody is just going to hand us a legit SG with the same combination of youth and upside as Collin. That's why I scoffed every-time someone would suggest we could get RJ Barrett from the Knicks.

For now ... IMO Sexland is our best option and I see us moving forward with it as we continue to evaluate all our options. Will JBB have the freedom to experiment? We can only hope. Clearly he'd like to get Isaac more touches. There are certainly a lot of possibilities, but these things usually need to play out.

I dont mind doing that as a bandaid until we figure something else out, I just dont want the 2 PG lineup to be longterm thing. It can be temporary until we find a legit SG with size/off ball ability. Thats why Im concerned about the $$ Sexton will get because I dont want his contract to be immovable when/if we do find a real SG.

Sign him, whatever, just make sure that contract is tradable when the time comes. Dont Kevin Love yourself again.

I don't think any outcome would see Sexton as an immovable contract unless he has an Isaiah Thomas-like injury. You might need to sweeten it a bit, but when all the old vets signing big contracts start looking terrible, Sexton on $20-25m per year is going to be fine.

[LivingLegend]

Oh, stats are great. They inform analysis, but they do not replace analysis and Collin just like every player is unique.

Also , I think Herro was a possibility, maybe even dumping Love in the deal as well; but I don't see why we'd want Herro for our "culture". If the Heat don't want him, that's an even bigger red flag for our young team.

The Cavs certainly have reservations about Collin and going forward with the 2 PG lineup. No doubt about that, but nobody is just going to hand us a legit SG with the same combination of youth and upside as Collin. That's why I scoffed every-time someone would suggest we could get RJ Barrett from the Knicks.

For now ... IMO Sexland is our best option and I see us moving forward with it as we continue to evaluate all our options. Will JBB have the freedom to experiment? We can only hope. Clearly he'd like to get Isaac more touches. There are certainly a lot of possibilities, but these things usually need to play out.

I dont mind doing that as a bandaid until we figure something else out, I just dont want the 2 PG lineup to be longterm thing. It can be temporary until we find a legit SG with size/off ball ability. Thats why Im concerned about the $$ Sexton will get because I dont want his contract to be immovable when/if we do find a real SG.

Sign him, whatever, just make sure that contract is tradable when the time comes. Dont Kevin Love yourself again.

I don't think any outcome would see Sexton as an immovable contract unless he has an Isaiah Thomas-like injury. You might need to sweeten it a bit, but when all the old vets signing big contracts start looking terrible, Sexton on $20-25m per year is going to be fine.

Yikes. If he gets over 20M a year I would be shocked.

[Revenged25]

I dont mind doing that as a bandaid until we figure something else out, I just dont want the 2 PG lineup to be longterm thing. It can be temporary until we find a legit SG with size/off ball ability. Thats why Im concerned about the $$ Sexton will get because I dont want his contract to be immovable when/if we do find a real SG.

Sign him, whatever, just make sure that contract is tradable when the time comes. Dont Kevin Love yourself again.

I don't think any outcome would see Sexton as an immovable contract unless he has an Isaiah Thomas-like injury. You might need to sweeten it a bit, but when all the old vets signing big contracts start looking terrible, Sexton on $20-25m per year is going to be fine.

Yikes. If he gets over 20M a year I would be shocked.

I guarantee you NBA execs won't be.

[Stillwater]

I dont mind doing that as a bandaid until we figure something else out, I just dont want the 2 PG lineup to be longterm thing. It can be temporary until we find a legit SG with size/off ball ability. Thats why Im concerned about the $$ Sexton will get because I dont want his contract to be immovable when/if we do find a real SG.

Sign him, whatever, just make sure that contract is tradable when the time comes. Dont Kevin Love yourself again.

I don't think any outcome would see Sexton as an immovable contract unless he has an Isaiah Thomas-like injury. You might need to sweeten it a bit, but when all the old vets signing big contracts start looking terrible, Sexton on $20-25m per year is going to be fine.

Yikes. If he gets over 20M a year I would be shocked.

Given what Allen just took I don't think it is out of the question that is what Sexton wants. I also would be surprised if they offer him more than that now. But in your mind they are much better off waiting until after next season where I say what if he has a breakout season and they have to max him ? I guess you can argue the coach will put him in a lower usage role ruining his value going into RFA since that would sit so well with potential free agents and current teammates...

[LivingLegend]

I don't think any outcome would see Sexton as an immovable contract unless he has an Isaiah Thomas-like injury. You might need to sweeten it a bit, but when all the old vets signing big contracts start looking terrible, Sexton on $20-25m per year is going to be fine.

Yikes. If he gets over 20M a year I would be shocked.

Given what Allen just took I don't think it is out of the question that is what Sexton wants. I also would be surprised if they offer him more than that now. But in your mind they are much better off waiting until after next season where I say what if he has a breakout season and they have to max him ? I guess you can argue the coach will put him in a lower usage role ruining his value going into RFA since that would sit so well with potential free agents and current teammates...

Then it would be valid to pay him that money and nobody would care because you then have a really good franchise player that deserves it. The issue the Cavs are in right now is that we dont know who Collin Sexton really is. Is he just a volume scorer who is better suited as a 6th man like Jordan Clarkson or is he a actual pillar of this rebuild who should be here for the next decade.


Time will tell.

[Revenged25]

Yikes. If he gets over 20M a year I would be shocked.

Given what Allen just took I don't think it is out of the question that is what Sexton wants. I also would be surprised if they offer him more than that now. But in your mind they are much better off waiting until after next season where I say what if he has a breakout season and they have to max him ? I guess you can argue the coach will put him in a lower usage role ruining his value going into RFA since that would sit so well with potential free agents and current teammates...

Then it would be valid to pay him that money and nobody would care because you then have a really good franchise player that deserves it. The issue the Cavs are in right now is that we dont know who Collin Sexton really is. Is he just a volume scorer who is better suited as a 6th man like Jordan Clarkson or is he a actual pillar of this rebuild who should be here for the next decade.

Time will tell.

Can we stop calling him a volume scorer? A volume scorer is someone who is inefficient, Sexton is not inefficient. If you're claiming Sexton is a volume scorer you need to call everyone that scores a lot of points a volume scorer because you have to take shots to score points.

[Stillwater]

Yikes. If he gets over 20M a year I would be shocked.

Given what Allen just took I don't think it is out of the question that is what Sexton wants. I also would be surprised if they offer him more than that now. But in your mind they are much better off waiting until after next season where I say what if he has a breakout season and they have to max him ? I guess you can argue the coach will put him in a lower usage role ruining his value going into RFA since that would sit so well with potential free agents and current teammates...

Then it would be valid to pay him that money and nobody would care because you then have a really good franchise player that deserves it. The issue the Cavs are in right now is that we dont know who Collin Sexton really is. Is he just a volume scorer who is better suited as a 6th man like Jordan Clarkson or is he a actual pillar of this rebuild who should be here for the next decade.

Time will tell.

A smart GM would see what he has done to improve every minute of every day and if he could get Sexton to take less than a max extension ahead of what could likely be his breakout season as the 4th often is for so many premier guards he should try...but I don't think Sexton takes less unless they really sell him on the Cavs becoming a better team by him taking a discount. I would rather pay him close to the max extension then have to pay him the max or be left with nothing next year at this time but I think the odds are greater they do low ball him and he plays for that RFA offer sheet. What happens this season though will be a disconnect as a result most likely if the offered extension was way off of what Sextons camp is asking for.

[LivingLegend]

Given what Allen just took I don't think it is out of the question that is what Sexton wants. I also would be surprised if they offer him more than that now. But in your mind they are much better off waiting until after next season where I say what if he has a breakout season and they have to max him ? I guess you can argue the coach will put him in a lower usage role ruining his value going into RFA since that would sit so well with potential free agents and current teammates...

Then it would be valid to pay him that money and nobody would care because you then have a really good franchise player that deserves it. The issue the Cavs are in right now is that we dont know who Collin Sexton really is. Is he just a volume scorer who is better suited as a 6th man like Jordan Clarkson or is he a actual pillar of this rebuild who should be here for the next decade.

Time will tell.

Can we stop calling him a volume scorer? A volume scorer is someone who is inefficient, Sexton is not inefficient. If you're claiming Sexton is a volume scorer you need to call everyone that scores a lot of points a volume scorer because you have to take shots to score points.

Fine hes not a volume scorer, hes a normal scorer.

They are in a tough spot. What I am saying is locking a player that you reaaaaally arnt 100% sold on to a near Max contract could prove to be a disaster in 2-3 years IF he does turn out to be that Jordan Clarkson 6th man, who by the way signed a 4/51M deal.

[LivingLegend]

Given what Allen just took I don't think it is out of the question that is what Sexton wants. I also would be surprised if they offer him more than that now. But in your mind they are much better off waiting until after next season where I say what if he has a breakout season and they have to max him ? I guess you can argue the coach will put him in a lower usage role ruining his value going into RFA since that would sit so well with potential free agents and current teammates...

Then it would be valid to pay him that money and nobody would care because you then have a really good franchise player that deserves it. The issue the Cavs are in right now is that we dont know who Collin Sexton really is. Is he just a volume scorer who is better suited as a 6th man like Jordan Clarkson or is he a actual pillar of this rebuild who should be here for the next decade.

Time will tell.

A smart GM would see what he has done to improve every minute of every day and if he could get Sexton to take less than a max extension ahead of what could likely be his breakout season as the 4th often is for so many premier guards he should try...but I don't think Sexton takes less unless they really sell him on the Cavs becoming a better team by him taking a discount. I would rather pay him close to the max extension then have to pay him the max or be left with nothing next year at this time but I think the odds are greater they do low ball him and he plays for that RFA offer sheet. What happens this season though will be a disconnect as a result most likely if the offered extension was way off of what Sextons camp is asking for.

So you just want to throw caution to the wind and give Collin Sexton a $158M+ contract because you hope hes going to earn it.

[jbk1234]

^Won't matter Sexton will be leaving imo He is not going to play second fiddle if the first fiddle is not the same level scorer.

What imaginary team is this? Because there are 30 actual ones and he plays on one of them already

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lol who is the best scorer on the Cavs? its your most favorite topic of the summer...the latest reports from the same clowns that said he was on the block are now saying he is getting extension proving they have no credibility at all.
Sexton will gladly stay on a max extension but I am guess you wont when that happens smh
If he came out and had a Dame type season would you change your tune or would you just keep on sticking with the dying takes

Yeah, if he started draining threes from all over the court on a consistent basis, I'd change my tune. If he grew six inches, I'd change my tune. If he played his way up to decent defensively, I'd change my tune.

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