Trade Ideas

[JujitsuFlip]

Seeing Jose Alvarado punch the opposing teams starting center in the mouth, literally...

That's the kind of fire this Cavs squad needs!

Ball for Jose and the corpse of DJ on the morning of January 24th, get it done Koby.

[mcfly1204]

As for unrealistic trade ideas, if you could turn Hunter into Draymond, would you? Play Draymond as your 4/5 off the bench, you have your enforcer, and a guy who helps keep the ball moving.

[JujitsuFlip]

As for unrealistic trade ideas, if you could turn Hunter into Draymond, would you? Play Draymond as your 4/5 off the bench, you have your enforcer, and a guy who helps keep the ball moving.

Under the CBA we can't, i assume is why you said unrealistic.

But if it were possible, why not. I'd start him though, and try to move Allen for an actual starting SF.

Unfortunately, the rumor is Koby is unwilling to trade Hunter.

The only trade we might see is a Lonzo trade in the next month, before the deadline.

Since he makes such little money it probably wouldn't matter but i could also see attaching a 2nd rounder to Nance just to get the roster spot, if he doesn't return soon. Could then put Tomlin on a standard deal.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/indiana-pacers/news/pacers-cut-ties-veteran-tony-bradley-cavs-matchup/eded907ba2603660f4464580

There you go jbk, Pacers cut Bradley.

Although if the worst team in the NBA can't find a use for a guy, it is probably telling.

[jbk1234]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/indiana-pacers/news/pacers-cut-ties-veteran-tony-bradley-cavs-matchup/eded907ba2603660f4464580

There you go jbk, Pacers cut Bradley.

Although if the worst team in the NBA can't find a use for a guy, it is probably telling.

His guarantee date is today, their owner is notoriously cheap, and the Pacers don't have to worry about playoff matchups in the East.

[JujitsuFlip]

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/nba/indiana-pacers/news/pacers-cut-ties-veteran-tony-bradley-cavs-matchup/eded907ba2603660f4464580

There you go jbk, Pacers cut Bradley.

Although if the worst team in the NBA can't find a use for a guy, it is probably telling.

His guarantee date is today, their owner is notoriously cheap, and the Pacers don't have to worry about playoff matchups in the East.

If the Cavs keep up their current trajectory, they may not either.

[gflem]

So, how does the Trae Young deal to the Wiz affect DG's value around the league in regards to a possible trade? Does it change how we see DG's value here being that they are pretty much the same archtype at the pg position? I will say that DG is the better defensive player but will he ever have positive value?

[JujitsuFlip]

So, how does the Trae Young deal to the Wiz affect DG's value around the league in regards to a possible trade? Does it change how we see DG's value here being that they are pretty much the same archtype at the pg position? I will say that DG is the better defensive player but will he ever have positive value?

I think for me, it just reconfirms he probably can't be moved until the summer of 2027, when he'll be expiring.

His play making and facilitation is top tier but he offers nothing on defense or the rebounding front. NBA teams in the 2nd apron era are moving away from little guards.

[gflem]

So, how does the Trae Young deal to the Wiz affect DG's value around the league in regards to a possible trade? Does it change how we see DG's value here being that they are pretty much the same archtype at the pg position? I will say that DG is the better defensive player but will he ever have positive value?

I think for me, it just reconfirms he probably can't be moved until the summer of 2027, when he'll be expiring.

His play making and facilitation is top tier but he offers nothing on defense or the rebounding front. NBA teams in the 2nd apron era are moving away from little guards.

Agreed. I think players like Trae and DG are great for teams like Brooklyn and Washington that are rebuilding or aren't close to contending. They can give casual fans someone exciting to go out and spend $ to see and give hope for the future while ultimately keeping the win totals low enough to potentially get a top pick in the lottery.

[jbk1234]

So, how does the Trae Young deal to the Wiz affect DG's value around the league in regards to a possible trade? Does it change how we see DG's value here being that they are pretty much the same archtype at the pg position? I will say that DG is the better defensive player but will he ever have positive value?

I have DG as objectively better than Trae. He's a better floor manager, he's better at involving his big men in the offense, and hes better at not allowing the other team to speed him up. The biggest difference is that Garland's game has never been predicated on getting gifted 5-10 free throws a night off of initiating contact fouls.

Team USA getting embarrassed in FIBA play when their stars complained to officiating crews changed how the league called their own games and guys like Beal, Trae, Ja, Sexton, etc. took a real hit to their efficiency.

This is consistent with reporting on how potential trade partners view Garland versus these other point guards. The Spurs were more interested in Garland than the other PG options. The Cavs have received multiple calls on Allen and Garland this season, and while the Cavs listened, they did not engage. Only the Wizards were interested in taking back Trae and it's not clear whether an extension has been agreed to, which leads us to final factor...

Under the old CBA teams gave max contracts to players who weren't top 30 players and that's not happening anymore. Harden, Butler, Ingram, Trae, and Ja were all eligible for max extensions, their teams did not want to give it to them, and they asked out. The existing contracts aren't killing the trade value of these players, it the players' expectations regarding future contracts and how that impacts present performance and team chemistry. The appetite for trading for a problem child with unrealistic expectations is greatly reduced.

Klutch wants Garland traded to a team that has no choice but to max him, see Fox, but thus far anyway Garland has prioritized winning with Cavs.

[toooskies]

So, how does the Trae Young deal to the Wiz affect DG's value around the league in regards to a possible trade? Does it change how we see DG's value here being that they are pretty much the same archtype at the pg position? I will say that DG is the better defensive player but will he ever have positive value?

I think for me, it just reconfirms he probably can't be moved until the summer of 2027, when he'll be expiring.

His play making and facilitation is top tier but he offers nothing on defense or the rebounding front. NBA teams in the 2nd apron era are moving away from little guards.

Agreed. I think players like Trae and DG are great for teams like Brooklyn and Washington that are rebuilding or aren't close to contending. They can give casual fans someone exciting to go out and spend $ to see and give hope for the future while ultimately keeping the win totals low enough to potentially get a top pick in the lottery.

Trae is a harder player to fit on a team than Garland. Garland can play defense well enough to be the PG on a #1 regular season defense. Garland can play off-ball on offense while Trae is only effective as your offensive engine. Garland is paid $6-7m less than Trae.

So all the contenders didn't want Trae because they had their #1 options on offense and they don't drastically change their offensive identity. They don't have time to build around his defensive weaknesses. And if you don't have value to a contender, no one's trading picks for you mid-season.

Garland would have value to a contender. You could imagine him in Minnesota (if they had the salary to send out) or Boston (they could send Simons + value) or Orlando (if they want to move Suggs or Bane) or Houston (FVV+) as a #2 or #3 where Trae wouldn't fit offensively.

The issue, though, is that Cleveland isn't at the point where they want pick value, they'd want to trade Garland for a player or players that fit an immediate contending window. And teams that would pay for Garland wouldn't want to give that up.

[JonFromVA]

Garland's trade value will likely be just as bad as Trae's because his efficiency and impact are just as crappy this season; but that could change if DG can overcome his turf toe. The big question is when. That won't stop some savvy GM's from trying to steal him from us, but the Cavs FO aren't knee-jerk idiots.

Selling low sucks, but nobody was breaking up that team last year.

[jbk1234]

Garland's trade value will likely be just as bad as Trae's because his efficiency and impact are just as crappy this season; but that could change if DG can overcome his turf toe. The big question is when. That won't stop some savvy GM's from trying to steal him from us, but the Cavs FO aren't knee-jerk idiots.

Selling low sucks, but nobody was breaking up that team last year.

A: They're improving as the season progresses.

B. How, exactly, are we measuring impact? Are we including Allen and Mobley's performances with and without him on the court? Trade evaluations are about projecting that player's value as an addition your team and a lot more goes into that than a stat sheet.

C. It's not that the Hawks got a bunch of calls on Trae and didn't like the offers, ONLY the Wizards would take him. There are plenty of national writers who insist the Cavs get plenty of calls on Garland. That doesn't mean the Cavs could push his market up to a point where they'd pull the trigger, but he has better trade value than Trae.

Personally, I think a relatively healthy Garland is the Cavs only shot at getting out of the second round. Mitchell, Mobley, and Allen can get you to the playoffs and out of the first round, but youre a second round out unless Garland is also cooking.

To my eye, the alternative routes to advancing no longer appear viable. If Mobley is going to be a top-10 player, it certainly isn't going to be this season. Our coaching staff is now neck and neck with Garland's toe in terms my top concerns for the playoffs. Our guard rotation behind Mitchell and Garland is worse than last season. You can't trade Garland for MPJ and field a playoff caliber backcourt. Outside of Merrill, I don't know that our reserves will be playable in a second round series.

[JonFromVA]

B. How, exactly, are we measuring impact? Are we including Allen and Mobley's performances with and without him on the court? Trade evaluations are about projecting that player's value as an addition your team and a lot more goes into that than a stat sheet.

Just season averages like TS% and On-Court and On-Off.

Most media members, fans, and GMs aren't going to dig very deep and they don't need to if the Cavs start dangling Garland out there like the Hawks have been dangling Trae.

Sharks can smell blood in the water.

edit:

If Garland can start looking like himself and the Cavs still come up short in the playoffs, maybe the Cavs would seriously look to shake up the roster this Summer?

I'm not as convinced that we can downgrade talent and improve with fit as others, though.

[jbk1234]

B. How, exactly, are we measuring impact? Are we including Allen and Mobley's performances with and without him on the court? Trade evaluations are about projecting that player's value as an addition your team and a lot more goes into that than a stat sheet.

Just season averages like TS% and On-Court and On-Off.

Most media members, fans, and GMs aren't going to dig very deep and they don't need to if the Cavs start dangling Garland out there like the Hawks have been dangling Trae.

Sharks can smell blood in the water.

The impetus for the trade happening now was the fact that Trae was extension eligible and the Hawks having zero desire to offer him the contract he wanted, but the Hawks have been dangling Trae for years, as to where the Cavs have brushed away inquiries.

[JonFromVA]

B. How, exactly, are we measuring impact? Are we including Allen and Mobley's performances with and without him on the court? Trade evaluations are about projecting that player's value as an addition your team and a lot more goes into that than a stat sheet.

Just season averages like TS% and On-Court and On-Off.

Most media members, fans, and GMs aren't going to dig very deep and they don't need to if the Cavs start dangling Garland out there like the Hawks have been dangling Trae.

Sharks can smell blood in the water.

The impetus for the trade happening now was the fact that Trae was extension eligible and the Hawks having zero desire to offer him the contract he wanted, but the Hawks have been dangling Trae for years, as to where the Cavs have brushed away inquiries.

And yet, if you want to sell high, you have to actually sell high.

[jbk1234]

Just season averages like TS% and On-Court and On-Off.

Most media members, fans, and GMs aren't going to dig very deep and they don't need to if the Cavs start dangling Garland out there like the Hawks have been dangling Trae.

Sharks can smell blood in the water.

The impetus for the trade happening now was the fact that Trae was extension eligible and the Hawks having zero desire to offer him the contract he wanted, but the Hawks have been dangling Trae for years, as to where the Cavs have brushed away inquiries.

And yet, if you want to sell high, you have to actually sell high.

The point I'm trying to make is that, for a variety of reasons, these two guys aren't good comps.

[JujitsuFlip]

Our coaching staff is now neck and neck with Garland's toe in terms my top concerns for the playoffs... Outside of Merrill, I don't know that our reserves will be playable in a second round series.

Well, one thing i do know is you can't go full jb bickerstaff and only run 7 guys in a series, that method 100% does not work.

[jbk1234]

B. How, exactly, are we measuring impact? Are we including Allen and Mobley's performances with and without him on the court? Trade evaluations are about projecting that player's value as an addition your team and a lot more goes into that than a stat sheet.

Just season averages like TS% and On-Court and On-Off.

Most media members, fans, and GMs aren't going to dig very deep and they don't need to if the Cavs start dangling Garland out there like the Hawks have been dangling Trae.

Sharks can smell blood in the water.

edit:

If Garland can start looking like himself and the Cavs still come up short in the playoffs, maybe the Cavs would seriously look to shake up the roster this Summer?

I'm not as convinced that we can downgrade talent and improve with fit as others, though.

If the Cavs come up short of the ECF while relatively healthy, I think there's an entire series of questions that need to be answered: Do you still think you can contend during Mitchell's prime? Does Mitchell still want to be here? Do you want him to be here enough to commit 35% of the cap? Do you still project Mobley to become a top 10 player? What can you actually get for everyone not named Mitchell and Mobley? What can you get for Mobley and Mitchell? Is Atkinson the right coach?

I'm not terribly interested in going back to zero and we're still going owe three years worth of picks.

[toooskies]

Our coaching staff is now neck and neck with Garland's toe in terms my top concerns for the playoffs... Outside of Merrill, I don't know that our reserves will be playable in a second round series.

Well, one thing i do know is you can't go full jb bickerstaff and only run 7 guys in a series, that method 100% does not work.

We keep putting guys in positions where they're set up to fail. And apparently we'd rather do that than tighten our rotations.

Tyson has been put everywhere from Brunson shutdown defender to starting PF this year, when he should be just a 2/3. CPJ at the 2 and Mitchell at the 3 last night was dumb-- even if you want to play that lineup, you don't give the other team time to prepare for it by making it the starting lineup. Ball on the court way too long to ride out his shooting slump. Wade at the 5.

But we're also afraid to, say, play Mobley + Bryant at their natural positions together. After Bryant's early season struggles he's looked at least competent, so when we're missing our backup PF we should at least let our starting PF try to play PF in bench units.

We've pretty much thrown everything at the wall and it reeks of just not having a plan.