Cavs 2019-2020 Regular Season

[jbk1234]

Our team is going to be really bad. The guys we drafted are really raw. I'm not seeing a true back up PF or SF on the roster.

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everyone was shooting less than 20% and everyone is chucking em thanks to a college coaches theories on offense and shooting from deep add that Sexton also had a bad shooting outing and Love didnt play ...all on the same nat tv afternoon game and you bench the vets in the second half due to their crap shooting and poor execution defensively. .. its going to be a bad review .
i do see kpj needing more reps defensively than i realized he would and he seems to have developed a hitch in his shot trying to change it.
i think a lot of these kids are trying to fix less than perfect shooting form and tbh its going to be real ugly for awhile for them.

I'd like to see Sexton focus his attention on the defensive end instead of expending all his energy on the offensive end. He can lock in a starting role if he does and players are lot less selfish offensively if they playing hard on both ends of the court. He's showing some early signs of locking in more but good defense is as much habit as anything else. Once you get use to playing hard on defense all the time, you don't even have to think about it anymore. Conversely, if you have a bad shooting night and you're playing crap defense, then the team is better off sending you to the bench.

[JonFromVA]

Sexton was clearly flustered by the refs and the new traveling enforcement. We played without Love, Thompson, and Garland.

Not much to take away, other than Beilein is going to need more than a week to transform this team - assuming that's even possible.

[gflem]

Sexton was clearly flustered by the refs and the new traveling enforcement. We played without Love, Thompson, and Garland.

Not much to take away, other than Beilein is going to need more than a week to transform this team - assuming that's even possible.

I'm not and haven't been sold on Beilein from the start. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see a coach at his age making the jump from college to the pros. Especially in this situation, with multiple vets in contract years and outside of those players a bunch of very young guys just trying to get acclimated to the NBA. It certainly does look like another loooong season ahead.
Here's to the upcoming trades bringing some real value back to the team at the deadline or thereabout.

[Stillwater]

Sexton was clearly flustered by the refs and the new traveling enforcement. We played without Love, Thompson, and Garland.

Not much to take away, other than Beilein is going to need more than a week to transform this team - assuming that's even possible.

I'm not and haven't been sold on Beilein from the start. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see a coach at his age making the jump from college to the pros. Especially in this situation, with multiple vets in contract years and outside of those players a bunch of very young guys just trying to get acclimated to the NBA. It certainly does look like another loooong season ahead.
Here's to the upcoming trades bringing some real value back to the team at the deadline or thereabout.

well the learning curve issue stems from the Cavs org wanting to develop the young players to the point of in some cases completely changing their offensive approach to games to fit into Beileins style of team ball , and in others cases with vets like Love only slight modifications so they can maximize their minutes.
I think Beilein is going to have to tone it down some and take baby steps until after the deadline otherwise vets like Clarkson and Knight will be so bad they won't garner any return at all. But we have seen this org not care about that in the past as well.
Beilein is more than qualified for the job, the only question is who does and doesn't buy in

[JonFromVA]

Sexton was clearly flustered by the refs and the new traveling enforcement. We played without Love, Thompson, and Garland.

Not much to take away, other than Beilein is going to need more than a week to transform this team - assuming that's even possible.

I'm not and haven't been sold on Beilein from the start. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see a coach at his age making the jump from college to the pros. Especially in this situation, with multiple vets in contract years and outside of those players a bunch of very young guys just trying to get acclimated to the NBA. It certainly does look like another loooong season ahead.
Here's to the upcoming trades bringing some real value back to the team at the deadline or thereabout.

well the learning curve issue stems from the Cavs org wanting to develop the young players to the point of in some cases completely changing their offensive approach to games to fit into Beileins style of team ball , and in others cases with vets like Love only slight modifications so they can maximize their minutes.
I think Beilein is going to have to tone it down some and take baby steps until after the deadline otherwise vets like Clarkson and Knight will be so bad they won't garner any return at all. But we have seen this org not care about that in the past as well.
Beilein is more than qualified for the job, the only question is who does and doesn't buy in

I'm thinking that if we're going to increase the value of players like Knight or Clarkson, it will be because they show they can contribute within these systems Beilein is trying to install. Sure, maybe there's a system that would highlight them specifically; but it's not the garbage we ran last year. Otherwise everyone knows what Clarkson can (and cannot) do, and with Knight the question still remains whether he can remain healthy and turn back the clock 3 years.

In either case, I'll be happy if we can get anything more than their value as expirings.

[Stillwater]

I'm not and haven't been sold on Beilein from the start. I hope I'm wrong but I just don't see a coach at his age making the jump from college to the pros. Especially in this situation, with multiple vets in contract years and outside of those players a bunch of very young guys just trying to get acclimated to the NBA. It certainly does look like another loooong season ahead.
Here's to the upcoming trades bringing some real value back to the team at the deadline or thereabout.

well the learning curve issue stems from the Cavs org wanting to develop the young players to the point of in some cases completely changing their offensive approach to games to fit into Beileins style of team ball , and in others cases with vets like Love only slight modifications so they can maximize their minutes.
I think Beilein is going to have to tone it down some and take baby steps until after the deadline otherwise vets like Clarkson and Knight will be so bad they won't garner any return at all. But we have seen this org not care about that in the past as well.
Beilein is more than qualified for the job, the only question is who does and doesn't buy in

I'm thinking that if we're going to increase the value of players like Knight or Clarkson, it will be because they show they can contribute within these systems Beilein is trying to install. Sure, maybe there's a system that would highlight them specifically; but it's not the garbage we ran last year. Otherwise everyone knows what Clarkson can (and cannot) do, and with Knight the question still remains whether he can remain healthy and turn back the clock 3 years.

In either case, I'll be happy if we can get anything more than their value as expirings.

I can see already that that JC at the 3 is not going to boost his value playing out of position and he won't be traded for the offers they would get unless somebody is going on what he did for CLE last season and recognizes it/
Knight needs the ball same as Garland imo to be dynamic and unfortunately with JC and Sexton better with it than without it as well the log jam will favor the youth development over deadline trade values for this org.I mean even KPJ really needs the ball right now, whereas Windler will be the one that is best off ball.
I can't see them finding flowing rotations that develop the system successfully for the youth movement while also adding value to justify moving JC or Knight as the picks are unlikely to be good.
I think TT is the most likely to grab us a late 1st or even Henson if they go that route.

[JonFromVA]

well the learning curve issue stems from the Cavs org wanting to develop the young players to the point of in some cases completely changing their offensive approach to games to fit into Beileins style of team ball , and in others cases with vets like Love only slight modifications so they can maximize their minutes.
I think Beilein is going to have to tone it down some and take baby steps until after the deadline otherwise vets like Clarkson and Knight will be so bad they won't garner any return at all. But we have seen this org not care about that in the past as well.
Beilein is more than qualified for the job, the only question is who does and doesn't buy in

I'm thinking that if we're going to increase the value of players like Knight or Clarkson, it will be because they show they can contribute within these systems Beilein is trying to install. Sure, maybe there's a system that would highlight them specifically; but it's not the garbage we ran last year. Otherwise everyone knows what Clarkson can (and cannot) do, and with Knight the question still remains whether he can remain healthy and turn back the clock 3 years.

In either case, I'll be happy if we can get anything more than their value as expirings.

I can see already that that JC at the 3 is not going to boost his value playing out of position and he won't be traded for the offers they would get unless somebody is going on what he did for CLE last season and recognizes it/
Knight needs the ball same as Garland imo to be dynamic and unfortunately with JC and Sexton better with it than without it as well the log jam will favor the youth development over deadline trade values for this org.I mean even KPJ really needs the ball right now, whereas Windler will be the one that is best off ball.
I can't see them finding flowing rotations that develop the system successfully for the youth movement while also adding value to justify moving JC or Knight as the picks are unlikely to be good.
I think TT is the most likely to grab us a late 1st or even Henson if they go that route.

I really don't expect we'll get anything out of most of our guys beyond their value as an expiring, and that alone can get us a late 1st rounder or a couple of seconds depending on the desperation level of our trade partner.

So, I see change as a good thing. Fingers crossed that it turns out well ... mostly for the players we plan to keep, and if it works out for some of the guys we plan to part with ... that's a bonus.

In other words, I'm fine if Clarkson and Knight never play a minute this year. If they want to prove to Beilein and the league, they're something more than what they've been? Cool. Do what the HC asks fill a useful role and exceed expectations - make us want to keep you - or another team want to trade for you.

Showcasing a player isn't really going to work unless a) he can do things GM's didn't think he could do; or b) you're dealing with an idiot GM.

[jbk1234]

I'm thinking that if we're going to increase the value of players like Knight or Clarkson, it will be because they show they can contribute within these systems Beilein is trying to install. Sure, maybe there's a system that would highlight them specifically; but it's not the garbage we ran last year. Otherwise everyone knows what Clarkson can (and cannot) do, and with Knight the question still remains whether he can remain healthy and turn back the clock 3 years.

In either case, I'll be happy if we can get anything more than their value as expirings.

I can see already that that JC at the 3 is not going to boost his value playing out of position and he won't be traded for the offers they would get unless somebody is going on what he did for CLE last season and recognizes it/
Knight needs the ball same as Garland imo to be dynamic and unfortunately with JC and Sexton better with it than without it as well the log jam will favor the youth development over deadline trade values for this org.I mean even KPJ really needs the ball right now, whereas Windler will be the one that is best off ball.
I can't see them finding flowing rotations that develop the system successfully for the youth movement while also adding value to justify moving JC or Knight as the picks are unlikely to be good.
I think TT is the most likely to grab us a late 1st or even Henson if they go that route.

I really don't expect we'll get anything out of most of our guys beyond their value as an expiring, and that alone can get us a late 1st rounder or a couple of seconds depending on the desperation level of our trade partner.

So, I see change as a good thing. Fingers crossed that it turns out well ... mostly for the players we plan to keep, and if it works out for some of the guys we plan to part with ... that's a bonus.

In other words, I'm fine if Clarkson and Knight never play a minute this year. If they want to prove to Beilein and the league, they're something more than what they've been? Cool. Do what the HC asks fill a useful role and exceed expectations - make us want to keep you - or another team want to trade for you.

Showcasing a player isn't really going to work unless a) he can do things GM's didn't think he could do; or b) you're dealing with an idiot GM.

There is no showcasing Knight. No one is giving any type of real value for him. As far as Clarkson, I wouldn't mind him getting heavy minutes off the bench for a half of season. With the exception of maybe Windler, the guys we drafted look really raw. Even Sexton has some meaningful development ahead of him.

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[Stillwater]

I can see already that that JC at the 3 is not going to boost his value playing out of position and he won't be traded for the offers they would get unless somebody is going on what he did for CLE last season and recognizes it/
Knight needs the ball same as Garland imo to be dynamic and unfortunately with JC and Sexton better with it than without it as well the log jam will favor the youth development over deadline trade values for this org.I mean even KPJ really needs the ball right now, whereas Windler will be the one that is best off ball.
I can't see them finding flowing rotations that develop the system successfully for the youth movement while also adding value to justify moving JC or Knight as the picks are unlikely to be good.
I think TT is the most likely to grab us a late 1st or even Henson if they go that route.

I really don't expect we'll get anything out of most of our guys beyond their value as an expiring, and that alone can get us a late 1st rounder or a couple of seconds depending on the desperation level of our trade partner.

So, I see change as a good thing. Fingers crossed that it turns out well ... mostly for the players we plan to keep, and if it works out for some of the guys we plan to part with ... that's a bonus.

In other words, I'm fine if Clarkson and Knight never play a minute this year. If they want to prove to Beilein and the league, they're something more than what they've been? Cool. Do what the HC asks fill a useful role and exceed expectations - make us want to keep you - or another team want to trade for you.

Showcasing a player isn't really going to work unless a) he can do things GM's didn't think he could do; or b) you're dealing with an idiot GM.

There is no showcasing Knight. No one is giving any type of real value for him. As far as Clarkson, I wouldn't mind him getting heavy minutes off the bench for a half of season. With the exception of maybe Windler, the guys we drafted look really raw. Even Sexton has some meaningful development ahead of him.

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yeah that was my expectation that JC would stay in his role off the bench since he was very solid last season, whether they shopped him or not but it appears that Beilein is more interested in utilizing him at the 3 since he can defend some smaller sf's despite Osman being better in that dept. but is much better shooting since Cedi has not improved to the point I think they may even shop Cedi instead etc.
Knight could have built up a little more than just expiring value if given the reps since he looks good again and it has been a damn long time coming. I think somebody might have given up 23-27 range pick to boost their guard rotation if injuries plagued them, but as of right now I am guessing he will not get the reps

[JonFromVA]

I really don't expect we'll get anything out of most of our guys beyond their value as an expiring, and that alone can get us a late 1st rounder or a couple of seconds depending on the desperation level of our trade partner.

So, I see change as a good thing. Fingers crossed that it turns out well ... mostly for the players we plan to keep, and if it works out for some of the guys we plan to part with ... that's a bonus.

In other words, I'm fine if Clarkson and Knight never play a minute this year. If they want to prove to Beilein and the league, they're something more than what they've been? Cool. Do what the HC asks fill a useful role and exceed expectations - make us want to keep you - or another team want to trade for you.

Showcasing a player isn't really going to work unless a) he can do things GM's didn't think he could do; or b) you're dealing with an idiot GM.

There is no showcasing Knight. No one is giving any type of real value for him. As far as Clarkson, I wouldn't mind him getting heavy minutes off the bench for a half of season. With the exception of maybe Windler, the guys we drafted look really raw. Even Sexton has some meaningful development ahead of him.

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yeah that was my expectation that JC would stay in his role off the bench since he was very solid last season, whether they shopped him or not but it appears that Beilein is more interested in utilizing him at the 3 since he can defend some smaller sf's despite Osman being better in that dept. but is much better shooting since Cedi has not improved to the point I think they may even shop Cedi instead etc.
Knight could have built up a little more than just expiring value if given the reps since he looks good again and it has been a damn long time coming. I think somebody might have given up 23-27 range pick to boost their guard rotation if injuries plagued them, but as of right now I am guessing he will not get the reps

Knight's value could go up if he shows he's regained some of his athleticism and that he can still shoot. I've seen no sign of the former so far, but he shot the 3-ball pretty well for us last year. Everyone knows Clarkson can get buckets off the bench.

I'm worried about Cedi as well. My hope is that he will flourish in a more structured environment, but it just might take some time. I do prefer to see him scoring off cuts to the hoop then trying to create on his own.

[Stillwater]

There is no showcasing Knight. No one is giving any type of real value for him. As far as Clarkson, I wouldn't mind him getting heavy minutes off the bench for a half of season. With the exception of maybe Windler, the guys we drafted look really raw. Even Sexton has some meaningful development ahead of him.

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yeah that was my expectation that JC would stay in his role off the bench since he was very solid last season, whether they shopped him or not but it appears that Beilein is more interested in utilizing him at the 3 since he can defend some smaller sf's despite Osman being better in that dept. but is much better shooting since Cedi has not improved to the point I think they may even shop Cedi instead etc.
Knight could have built up a little more than just expiring value if given the reps since he looks good again and it has been a damn long time coming. I think somebody might have given up 23-27 range pick to boost their guard rotation if injuries plagued them, but as of right now I am guessing he will not get the reps

Knight's value could go up if he shows he's regained some of his athleticism and that he can still shoot. I've seen no sign of the former so far, but he shot the 3-ball pretty well for us last year. Everyone knows Clarkson can get buckets off the bench.

I'm worried about Cedi as well. My hope is that he will flourish in a more structured environment, but it just might take some time. I do prefer to see him scoring off cuts to the hoop then trying to create on his own.

The problem with Cedi is unless he is initializing the offense which won't be beyond occasional he is going to have to shoot better to remain a starter for this coach.

[JonFromVA]

yeah that was my expectation that JC would stay in his role off the bench since he was very solid last season, whether they shopped him or not but it appears that Beilein is more interested in utilizing him at the 3 since he can defend some smaller sf's despite Osman being better in that dept. but is much better shooting since Cedi has not improved to the point I think they may even shop Cedi instead etc.
Knight could have built up a little more than just expiring value if given the reps since he looks good again and it has been a damn long time coming. I think somebody might have given up 23-27 range pick to boost their guard rotation if injuries plagued them, but as of right now I am guessing he will not get the reps

Knight's value could go up if he shows he's regained some of his athleticism and that he can still shoot. I've seen no sign of the former so far, but he shot the 3-ball pretty well for us last year. Everyone knows Clarkson can get buckets off the bench.

I'm worried about Cedi as well. My hope is that he will flourish in a more structured environment, but it just might take some time. I do prefer to see him scoring off cuts to the hoop then trying to create on his own.

The problem with Cedi is unless he is initializing the offense which won't be beyond occasional he is going to have to shoot better to remain a starter for this coach.

Or if his defense was lights out ... but at the moment, he's just a whole bunch of mediocre.

[jbk1234]

Knight's value could go up if he shows he's regained some of his athleticism and that he can still shoot. I've seen no sign of the former so far, but he shot the 3-ball pretty well for us last year. Everyone knows Clarkson can get buckets off the bench.

I'm worried about Cedi as well. My hope is that he will flourish in a more structured environment, but it just might take some time. I do prefer to see him scoring off cuts to the hoop then trying to create on his own.

The problem with Cedi is unless he is initializing the offense which won't be beyond occasional he is going to have to shoot better to remain a starter for this coach.

Or if his defense was lights out ... but at the moment, he's just a whole bunch of mediocre.

I feel like another team will utilize Cedi properly and we're going to regret not retaining him. Having a guy who can defend the SF position and is a 4th option on offense is something most teams would jump at. Even having a capable SF coming off the bench is pretty valuable.

Clarkson is a sixth man on a good team. He's not a SF. You're running a three guard line up if you put him out there at SF.

The fundamental problem is the roster is completely unbalanced. We don't really have NBA quality backups at SF and PF. We have too many guards and centers. We have too many below-replacement level defenders in the back court. Even our *good* front court defenders are really just above average. Our young guys look really raw.

Trying to add in a new system isn't helping but it's not the real problem. If Love gets hurt, this team will be worse than last year's team. We didn't even grab a Nwaba and Dekker in the offseason. I'd probably trade TT and Clarkson for second round picks and better fitting pieces if the opportunity presented itself.

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[jbk1234]

I'm legitimately disappointed in Nance. He's not in game shape.

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[jbk1234]

And we're playing Cedi at PF again..

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[jbk1234]

That was painful. The Celtics played as a a single unit with rookies and second string players. We basically looked like a summer league team that had two days of practice before our first game. If we're going to use Berlein's system, then the none shooting big men have to go. The Celtics helped off of our G League bigs and Nance all night.

I didn't expect us to be good but we look like the worst team in the league by a pretty wide margin.



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[Yuri Vaultin]

Sexton looks like a quintessential 6th man type like Lou Williams.

[jbk1234]

Sexton looks like a quintessential 6th man type like Lou Williams.

He has the ability to be a much better defender than that.

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[Stillwater]

Sexton looks like a quintessential 6th man type like Lou Williams.

He has the ability to be a much better defender than that.

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id be more than happy if Sexton became as clutch as Lou Williams but i agree he has a higher ceiling defensively and is likely to get there with the ridiculous work ethic... i laughed when i heard last season the coaches had to make him go home and the staff with the keys to the castle know him like a brother or son since he was the first to arrive and the last to leave.
He has along ways to go as a facilitator and defender but anyone thinking hes just an average player since he hasn't broke out yet will be like wtf happened lol
i still think he will surpass trae young long term

[JonFromVA]

That was painful. The Celtics played as a a single unit with rookies and second string players. We basically looked like a summer league team that had two days of practice before our first game. If we're going to use Berlein's system, then the none shooting big men have to go. The Celtics helped off of our G League bigs and Nance all night.

I didn't expect us to be good but we look like the worst team in the league by a pretty wide margin.

Yeah, watching the Cavs all these years, you'd think what the Celtics have done integrating their rooks is impossible; but then I remember the Cavs defense has a knack of making other teams look much better than they are.

It's certainly a nice object lesson for Beilein to be able to show tape of how the Celtics are executing .vs. how we are, but it's worrisome that we don't even seem to be trying to run stuff like the C's used to get their guys open.

So, yeah, I imagine if Cedi was on the Celtics he'd look a lot better than he does on the Cavs. Fingers crossed we can get there eventually.

Altman really needs to do a bit more this season than trade $$$ for picks. He needs to start getting people on the roster who can execute what Beilein wants.