Stillwater's monster draft thread (consolidated)

[Stillwater]

Unless it's a really minor asset, I don't think RJ is worth moving up for. Now, if the Grizzlies wanted Sexton and would move back, that's a conversation worth having.

Yeah I wouldn't move Sexton for the 2nd unless we kept the 5th...
Showed way to much improvement to have him come back and kill us the rest of his career.

I also would be a little surprised if they gave up the farm to get RJ. I do think he is a consistant 3 pointer away from becoming a top 50 player down the road though.

He showed some improvement, mostly at a point in a season where younger players show improvement because other players and teams take their foot off the gas. His fundamental attribute is how fast he is but it makes him harder to play make for the rest of his teammates because he's easy to speed up. I'm almost certain Ja will have a higher ceiling than him.

maybe, i mean hes obviosuly more in the mold of a true floor general than Sexton,but does he really warrant giving up last yrs pick and this years...i doubt it.

[jbk1234]

Yeah I wouldn't move Sexton for the 2nd unless we kept the 5th...
Showed way to much improvement to have him come back and kill us the rest of his career.

I also would be a little surprised if they gave up the farm to get RJ. I do think he is a consistant 3 pointer away from becoming a top 50 player down the road though.

He showed some improvement, mostly at a point in a season where younger players show improvement because other players and teams take their foot off the gas. His fundamental attribute is how fast he is but it makes him harder to play make for the rest of his teammates because he's easy to speed up. I'm almost certain Ja will have a higher ceiling than him.

maybe, i mean hes obviosuly more in the mold of a true floor general than Sexton,but does he really warrant giving up last yrs pick and this years...i doubt it.

I said the same thing about the proposed Doncic trade last year. I feel very differently about it now. If the Cavs aren't as high on Ja as I am, that's one thing. But I'm coming around to the idea that if you're convinced a player is going to be really good in the NBA, it's probably worth trading two lottery picks for him.

[Revenged25]

He showed some improvement, mostly at a point in a season where younger players show improvement because other players and teams take their foot off the gas. His fundamental attribute is how fast he is but it makes him harder to play make for the rest of his teammates because he's easy to speed up. I'm almost certain Ja will have a higher ceiling than him.

maybe, i mean hes obviosuly more in the mold of a true floor general than Sexton,but does he really warrant giving up last yrs pick and this years...i doubt it.

I said the same thing about the proposed Doncic trade last year. I feel very differently about it now. If the Cavs aren't as high on Ja as I am, that's one thing. But I'm coming around to the idea that if you're convinced a player is going to be really good in the NBA, it's probably worth trading two lottery picks for him.

I think Doncic ended up being much better than most people thought he would be.

For a draft day trade, not sure if the value is correct but, would #5 and #26 be enough to get #3 (RJ) if there is a player at #5 that the Knicks really liked like Garland, Hunter, etc?

[jbk1234]

maybe, i mean hes obviosuly more in the mold of a true floor general than Sexton,but does he really warrant giving up last yrs pick and this years...i doubt it.

I said the same thing about the proposed Doncic trade last year. I feel very differently about it now. If the Cavs aren't as high on Ja as I am, that's one thing. But I'm coming around to the idea that if you're convinced a player is going to be really good in the NBA, it's probably worth trading two lottery picks for him.

I think Doncic ended up being much better than most people thought he would be.

For a draft day trade, not sure if the value is correct but, would #5 and #26 be enough to get #3 (RJ) if there is a player at #5 that the Knicks really liked like Garland, Hunter, etc?

Yeah, if the Cavs are that high on RJ, I'd be fine with it. It's not a very high price to move up. I'm just not that high on him.

[Revenged25]

I said the same thing about the proposed Doncic trade last year. I feel very differently about it now. If the Cavs aren't as high on Ja as I am, that's one thing. But I'm coming around to the idea that if you're convinced a player is going to be really good in the NBA, it's probably worth trading two lottery picks for him.

I think Doncic ended up being much better than most people thought he would be.

For a draft day trade, not sure if the value is correct but, would #5 and #26 be enough to get #3 (RJ) if there is a player at #5 that the Knicks really liked like Garland, Hunter, etc?

Yeah, if the Cavs are that high on RJ, I'd be fine with it. It's not a very high price to move up. I'm just not that high on him.

Which is fair, but I think his game fits better for the NBA than college and there was something I heard the other day on the radio which really seemed strange if it's true and that's for as great as Zion is, and we all know how great Coach K is, when it was crunch time and the game was on the line, Coach K almost exclusively went to RJ for the final play. If Coach K had that kind of confidence in RJ, and from reports RJ is a hard worker that loves the game and wants to improve, then I think he would be a great fit in the Bielien offense if he can get his 3pt shot to be more consistent as that would mean we have 2 players that could drive and kick to others as well as being on the 3pt line to shoot it. Obviously he needs to improve in how much he tunnel visions, but that's correctable.

[Stillwater]

im not entirely convinced rj doesnt fall to us at 5
if zion and barrett go 1/2 and ny & lal are picking for their own rosters(not new orleans or washington) i think Garland ,Hunter and Bol have legit cases for both spots... also would not be shocked if either of them sees Culver or Hunter as better value given Barrett's limitations as a shooter not just 3s but alst ft% and less than stellar defense.
He is a high iq prospect though and has one of the highest ceilings so i could be dead wrong

[Revenged25]

im not entirely convinced rj doesnt fall to us at 5
if zion and barrett go 1/2 and ny & lal are picking for their own rosters(not new orleans or washington) i think Garland ,Hunter and Bol have legit cases for both spots... also would not be shocked if either of them sees Culver or Hunter as better value given Barrett's limitations as a shooter not just 3s but alst ft% and less than stellar defense.
He is a high iq prospect though and has one of the highest ceilings so i could be dead wrong

Picking that high, you take the chance you can improve their shooting and go for the high ceiling guy nearly every time.

[Stillwater]

im not entirely convinced rj doesnt fall to us at 5
if zion and barrett go 1/2 and ny & lal are picking for their own rosters(not new orleans or washington) i think Garland ,Hunter and Bol have legit cases for both spots... also would not be shocked if either of them sees Culver or Hunter as better value given Barrett's limitations as a shooter not just 3s but alst ft% and less than stellar defense.
He is a high iq prospect though and has one of the highest ceilings so i could be dead wrong

Picking that high, you take the chance you can improve their shooting and go for the high ceiling guy nearly every time.

I think out side of Zion the higher floor rules the day with Ja and RJ ,and lesser ceiling but higher floor Hunter,Bizdatze and Culver where players like Bol,Little,Sekou,Porter,White,Garland, Hayes, and a few others all have ceilings as high or on par with Ja and RJ just have lower or much lower floors.

The difference is risk

[Stillwater]

I posted this on a intl prospect thread thought I'd throw it up here. another little bit older but decent short compilation vid of Sekou.
worth a look:

Watch on YouTube

[Stillwater]

Difficult to know with NY and LAL both potentially being in trade talks with their picks(maybe even with CLE), but I am going to assume Zion,and Ja are the only 2 we can't get barring some miracle Love Parsons 2/5 swap.
There isn't much chance RJ falls to 5 but he could fall to 4 if NY is picking for Pels at 3 who are high on Garland and to some degree White and we have been witness' to how easily the Cavs moved Wiggins on a Lebron James led roster when Love was made available. Who is to say LAL don't want Love for the 4th...esp given RJ does not offer the shooting LAL desperately need.
That being said, I think RJ won't be a Cav in 60% of all scenarios, the 30% being he falls to 4, 10% to 5.
I also don't think it's out of the question for CLE to be high on Coby White at 5

[gflem]

Difficult to know with NY and LAL both potentially being in trade talks with their picks(maybe even with CLE), but I am going to assume Zion,and Ja are the only 2 we can't get barring some miracle Love Parsons 2/5 swap.
There isn't much chance RJ falls to 5 but he could fall to 4 if NY is picking for Pels at 3 who are high on Garland and to some degree White and we have been witness' to how easily the Cavs moved Wiggins on a Lebron James led roster when Love was made available. Who is to say LAL don't want Love for the 4th...esp given RJ does not offer the shooting LAL desperately need.
That being said, I think RJ won't be a Cav in 60% of all scenarios, the 30% being he falls to 4, 10% to 5.
I also don't think it's out of the question for CLE to be high on Coby White at 5

You know I have been thinking the same thing about White. For me, he was a bit too streaky in college, but he has good size, great speed and can handle and distribute the ball better than Sexton, so he could potentially be a very good fit with Sexton in the back court.
As for moving up? There's just way too many possibilities with the probable AD trade to predict anything. It almost makes my head hurt trying to figure any of it out. I am mostly resigned to the team picking at 5 between Hunter and Culver. But, I am still holding out hope that the JR contract can be turned into another mid first round pick.

[Stillwater]

Difficult to know with NY and LAL both potentially being in trade talks with their picks(maybe even with CLE), but I am going to assume Zion,and Ja are the only 2 we can't get barring some miracle Love Parsons 2/5 swap.
There isn't much chance RJ falls to 5 but he could fall to 4 if NY is picking for Pels at 3 who are high on Garland and to some degree White and we have been witness' to how easily the Cavs moved Wiggins on a Lebron James led roster when Love was made available. Who is to say LAL don't want Love for the 4th...esp given RJ does not offer the shooting LAL desperately need.
That being said, I think RJ won't be a Cav in 60% of all scenarios, the 30% being he falls to 4, 10% to 5.
I also don't think it's out of the question for CLE to be high on Coby White at 5

You know I have been thinking the same thing about White. For me, he was a bit too streaky in college, but he has good size, great speed and can handle and distribute the ball better than Sexton, so he could potentially be a very good fit with Sexton in the back court.
As for moving up? There's just way too many possibilities with the probable AD trade to predict anything. It almost makes my head hurt trying to figure any of it out. I am mostly resigned to the team picking at 5 between Hunter and Culver. But, I am still holding out hope that the JR contract can be turned into another mid first round pick.

Right the odds they stay at 5 are very high really, but who they pick is another story. I think on these boards anyway mostly due to lack of high attention by the media, Sekou is a major sleeper for us. He is more than worthy of that pick spot.
But I get thinking Culver or Hunter due to more exposure, and both making huge strides their soph seasons etc. Just not sold they are thinking at 5 the high floor prospects are all that is left worth getting.
I think if you were to delve deep into the mindset of the likes of Altman and company there are very few prospects projected to go 5-10 that fit the type of targets they are after outside of Sekou,Bol and Little.. all very high upside types and only 1 with proven success without injury issues(Sekou). But I also think they could see White as a value target even without being as high on him as the others to put out there to see how much PHO or CHI would give up to move up etc.
Worst case We pick Reddish for fit & long term upside, be in the high lottery again next year and pick 6 or 7 due to the **** lottery change.

[gflem]

Right the odds they stay at 5 are very high really, but who they pick is another story. I think on these boards anyway mostly due to lack of high attention by the media, Sekou is a major sleeper for us. He is more than worthy of that pick spot.
But I get thinking Culver or Hunter due to more exposure, and both making huge strides their soph seasons etc. Just not sold they are thinking at 5 the high floor prospects are all that is left worth getting.
I think if you were to delve deep into the mindset of the likes of Altman and company there are very few prospects projected to go 5-10 that fit the type of targets they are after outside of Sekou,Bol and Little.. all very high upside types and only 1 with proven success without injury issues(Sekou). But I also think they could see White as a value target even without being as high on him as the others to put out there to see how much PHO or CHI would give up to move up etc.
Worst case We pick Reddish for fit & long term upside, be in the high lottery again next year and pick 6 or 7 due to the **** lottery change.

If they are on Sekou, maybe that opens the door to do something with Atl for 8 and 10? I dont know, moving down in a supposed weak draft makes me a bit nervous. If we did do a deal with Atl, I would rather we get a second or two rather than get our pick back next year, I would think being in the top 10 should be a given, although with the new draft rules who knows?
On that subject, I wonder how the new draft rules will affect protections on picks that are traded? I mean top 5 protections arent what they used to be anymore.

[Stillwater]

If they are on Sekou, maybe that opens the door to do something with Atl for 8 and 10? I dont know, moving down in a supposed weak draft makes me a bit nervous. If we did do a deal with Atl, I would rather we get a second or two rather than get our pick back next year, I would think being in the top 10 should be a given, although with the new draft rules who knows?
On that subject, I wonder how the new draft rules will affect protections on picks that are traded? I mean top 5 protections arent what they used to be anymore.

Maybe if they get enough good intel that teams at 6 & 7 are not secretly salivating of Sekou. I mean ATL themselves might be pining for his services.
I would just take him at 5 if I liked him enough instead of settling for a lesser prospect and risk not getting him at 8

[Stillwater]

So I have decided to break down some different modes of developing a master big board omitting Zion and Ja for the Cavs lottery pick at 5:
This is a collection of prospects rankings for different categories:
Category 1 ; upper classman or intl. body of work/high floor and decent upside rankings:
1 Hunter
2 Culver
3 Bitadze
4 Nowell
5 G Williams
6 NAW
7 Clarke
Category 2 ; freshman body of work high floor rankings;
1 White
2 Barrett
3 Hayes
- ltd run but high impact same category;
4 Bol
5 Garland
6 KPorter
Category 3; all prospects elite upside based on physical tools, athleticism, baseline bb skill with moderate level floor etc
1 Doumbouya
2. Little
3 Lecque
4 Hachimura
5 Langford
6 Claxton
Cat 5 : all prospects decent upside but low floor boom bust w/ legit baseline skill but red flags mentally or motivationally:
1 Reddish
2 Bassey
3 Bol
4 K Johnson
5 Bazley
6 Okpala
Cat 6 : all prospects nba ready with moderate upside based on high skill level but lacking elite athleticism or physical tools:
1 Garland
2 Bitadze
3 Culver
4 G.Williams
---
Category 7: Frosh/intl with semi-proven day 1 transferable skill and above avg. nba level athleticism that also have high upside/unattained level of play
1 Barrett
2 KPorter
3 Bol
4 Doumbouya
5. Little
Cat 8 : all prospects legit skillset in place to work with along with explosive athleticism and or measurables:
1 KPorter
2 THT
3 Hunter
4 Clarke
5 Washington

[Richfield]

Can we talk about Culver? I have honestly only watched one game and not interested in going into highlight and scouting tapes just yet. My impression of Culver was that he has good physical attributes, but looks a little bit stiff out there. Looked like he was picking and choosing his spots and that he tries to use what he's been practicing, rather than immersing himself completely into the game and doing whatever's needed at that very moment. Or that he's worked on and prepared for the game, but doesn't as much react to the situations in real time. That first impression was that he was seeing success possibly based more on his physical attributes than on his mind for the game. How will he adjust to the NBA against guys who are physically more his match? I'm hoping somebody who's watched a lot of him can set me straight so that if Cavs do draft him, I don't have to worry.

[Stillwater]

Can we talk about Culver? I have honestly only watched one game and not interested in going into highlight and scouting tapes just yet. My impression of Culver was that he has good physical attributes, but looks a little bit stiff out there. Looked like he was picking and choosing his spots and that he tries to use what he's been practicing, rather than immersing himself completely into the game and doing whatever's needed at that very moment. Or that he's worked on and prepared for the game, but doesn't as much react to the situations in real time. That first impression was that he was seeing success possibly based more on his physical attributes than on his mind for the game. How will he adjust to the NBA against guys who are physically more his match? I'm hoping somebody who's watched a lot of him can set me straight so that if Cavs do draft him, I don't have to worry.

Interesting take. He has very solid but not elite measurables, nba level but not elite athleticism ( not very explosive) .
Positives: He is apparently a film room junkie who loves the game and has a strong desire to get better, proven from freshman to sophmore seasons as well. His ability to drive and finish through contact was good in college, and his defensive movement and awareness was above average. His shooting is solid and his court vision is very good for an off guard. He can initiate the offense but should not be considered the primary at this time.
Negatives: aside from lacking elite measurables and elite explosiveness , he needs to get stronger for his current skillset driving to the basket and muscling through to translate or at minimum needs to improve his finishing moves avoiding contact.
He needs to get to his spots quicker or he may struggle at the next level against faster defenders than he usually would face, but there is no reason to think he cannot.
He is more than worthy of a 4-8 range pick but I am reluctant to have him above some others that have shown albeit less consistency, more upside.

[Stillwater]

So here is post combine full mock in the situation where ATL calls and wants to move up for Reddish, Cavs also ship SMith to BKN for 27 and 31 then flip 26 and 27 + 2 future 2nds to move up to 16 etc.https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/594220/

[Stillwater]

In this one the top 4 plays out a little different than expected where Garland is available at 5 and CHI offers their 2020 top 4 protected then unprotected if not conveyed to leapfrog the Suns and grab Garland. Also in this one the Nets go for it and swap the 17 & 31 for 26 & 2 future 2nds to get more fa options by taking Smiths deal for Crabbe.
I also think there is a chance the Suns believe Reddish can play on ball and like his upside more than White who slides to WAS and hunter and Sekou slide some as well.
I have Nets taking Bazley but could easily be Kabengele or Claxton
Threw in probable move with Boston sending Brown the 2020 Memphis pick 2 picks this year etc for AD.

Cavs grab Bol early in this one and Hachimura at 17 and then take one of Oni or Windler at 31 unless someone better slides.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/594861/

[ToneLocc]

In this one the top 4 plays out a little different than expected where Garland is available at 5 and CHI offers their 2020 top 4 protected then unprotected if not conveyed to leapfrog the Suns and grab Garland. Also in this one the Nets go for it and swap the 17 & 31 for 26 & 2 future 2nds to get more fa options by taking Smiths deal for Crabbe.
I also think there is a chance the Suns believe Reddish can play on ball and like his upside more than White who slides to WAS and hunter and Sekou slide some as well.
I have Nets taking Bazley but could easily be Kabengele or Claxton
Threw in probable move with Boston sending Brown the 2020 Memphis pick 2 picks this year etc for AD.

Cavs grab Bol early in this one and Hachimura at 17 and then take one of Oni or Windler at 31 unless someone better slides.

https://basketball.realgm.com/nba/draft/draft_simulator/view/594861/

I’m all for trading down, but getting these two guys in the first would be my personal worst case scenario. I really hope we do not consider Bol with our first pick. Now if he falls to 26.....