Cavaliers 2020 Draft Discussion.

[LivingLegend]

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[LivingLegend]

The Cavs shouldn't let anyone on the roster over the age of 27 impact who they draft, and they really shouldn't let TT or Drummond influence who they draft.

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At this point I really do see Okongwu as a great fit, but they need to let Tristan go in order to make that work. Its tough because TT is beloved in the lockeroom, by KLove, his leadership and nostalgia of those older teams. I really wish we just didnt make that Drummond move at all--it would be a lot easier to be more flexible in the draft.

Everything Ive been reading on The Athletic and from John Hollinger says the two players the Cavs are most interested in are Deni and Toppin. Which is somewhat shocking considering the defensive power that Okongwu/Okoro both bring.

I really dont know what to think about Toppin. On one hand hes a immediate impact offensive player. But he is so bad on defense that I cant look past it. He also gives me a 'bust' type of vibe for whatever reason. Deni is still in my eyes a risk and stands more of a chance to become a Bogdonavic/Osman level player than he does being a Luka or Hedo level European player.

Hopefully its all just a smokescreen for Okongwu or Okoro

[Revenged25]

The Cavs shouldn't let anyone on the roster over the age of 27 impact who they draft, and they really shouldn't let TT or Drummond influence who they draft.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

At this point I really do see Okongwu as a great fit, but they need to let Tristan go in order to make that work. Its tough because TT is beloved in the lockeroom, by KLove, his leadership and nostalgia of those older teams. I really wish we just didnt make that Drummond move at all--it would be a lot easier to be more flexible in the draft.

Everything Ive been reading on The Athletic and from John Hollinger says the two players the Cavs are most interested in are Deni and Toppin. Which is somewhat shocking considering the defensive power that Okongwu/Okoro both bring.

I really dont know what to think about Toppin. On one hand hes a immediate impact offensive player. But he is so bad on defense that I cant look past it. He also gives me a 'bust' type of vibe for whatever reason. Deni is still in my eyes a risk and stands more of a chance to become a Bogdonavic/Osman level player than he does being a Luka or Hedo level European player.

Hopefully its all just a smokescreen for Okongwu or Okoro

Apparently teams that are viewing Toppin highly are viewing him as a Stretch 5, not as a 4, which would help hide his defensive liability on the perimeter, though he'd probably then have to deal with being undersized at the 5 where guys will likely have 30-80+ lbs on him to go along with 1-5 inches.

[LivingLegend]

The Cavs shouldn't let anyone on the roster over the age of 27 impact who they draft, and they really shouldn't let TT or Drummond influence who they draft.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

At this point I really do see Okongwu as a great fit, but they need to let Tristan go in order to make that work. Its tough because TT is beloved in the lockeroom, by KLove, his leadership and nostalgia of those older teams. I really wish we just didnt make that Drummond move at all--it would be a lot easier to be more flexible in the draft.

Everything Ive been reading on The Athletic and from John Hollinger says the two players the Cavs are most interested in are Deni and Toppin. Which is somewhat shocking considering the defensive power that Okongwu/Okoro both bring.

I really dont know what to think about Toppin. On one hand hes a immediate impact offensive player. But he is so bad on defense that I cant look past it. He also gives me a 'bust' type of vibe for whatever reason. Deni is still in my eyes a risk and stands more of a chance to become a Bogdonavic/Osman level player than he does being a Luka or Hedo level European player.

Hopefully its all just a smokescreen for Okongwu or Okoro

Apparently teams that are viewing Toppin highly are viewing him as a Stretch 5, not as a 4, which would help hide his defensive liability on the perimeter, though he'd probably then have to deal with being undersized at the 5 where guys will likely have 30-80+ lbs on him to go along with 1-5 inches.

Yeah thats the best bet but like you said he is just going to get muscled down low by NBA centers. I saw something that said when teams go small you might not be able to play him on the floor similar to the Dwight Howard effect with FT shooting because of how much of a liability he is defensively. He is not quick enough to move laterally to guard quicker/explosive players, but hes not strong enough to hold himself together down low with bigger players.

Count me as out on Toppin. Bickerstaff/Altman said multiple times that they recognize the need to add defense and I dont know how you preach that then go draft Toppin

You could give me Deni/Okoro/Okongwu and I would be happy with either 3.

[tleikheen]

There's no one in this draft thats going to plug the big hole defensively that Garland and Sexton are to the Cavs defense.Nobody wants KLove unless its pennies on the dollar,TT blue collar and loyal should be allowed to move on to a contending team,and is Drummond just a financial chip to be used.
So getting a high flying polished scorer like Obi Toppin should be the Cavs pick.Cavs are going to need an inside scoring presence sooner than later.

[gflem]

There's no one in this draft thats going to plug the big hole defensively that Garland and Sexton are to the Cavs defense.Nobody wants KLove unless its pennies on the dollar,TT blue collar and loyal should be allowed to move on to a contending team,and is Drummond just a financial chip to be used.
So getting a high flying polished scorer like Obi Toppin should be the Cavs pick.Cavs are going to need an inside scoring presence sooner than later.

TT "should be allowed to move on to a contending team"? He is a F/A, he can do what he wants. Otherwise I agree with you. And, yes Drummond is likely a trade piece at the dl used to acquire other assets. Also, I don't think Oubre is worth moving down 5 spots in this draft. He would fill a need, and his age fits whatever timeline the Cavs are working with but adding Nance Jr. kills it for me.

[JonFromVA]

There's no one in this draft thats going to plug the big hole defensively that Garland and Sexton are to the Cavs defense.Nobody wants KLove unless its pennies on the dollar,TT blue collar and loyal should be allowed to move on to a contending team,and is Drummond just a financial chip to be used.
So getting a high flying polished scorer like Obi Toppin should be the Cavs pick.Cavs are going to need an inside scoring presence sooner than later.

TT "should be allowed to move on to a contending team"? He is a F/A, he can do what he wants. Otherwise I agree with you. And, yes Drummond is likely a trade piece at the dl used to acquire other assets. Also, I don't think Oubre is worth moving down 5 spots in this draft. He would fill a need, and his age fits whatever timeline the Cavs are working with but adding Nance Jr. kills it for me.

Oubre is just signed for this season then he'll be an UFA. Was known as a low BBIQ player and nobody missed him when he was shipped out for Trevor Ariza.

Between Avidja, Okoro, Vassell we should be able to find a SF if that's what we want ... but I'd be fine with trading back if Nesmith falls as far as he's been projected to.

[jbk1234]

I heard a good trade ........ Phoenix : Kelly Oubre (24 y o)SF 6'7" and 10 th pick for Larry Nance Jr (27 y o)PF 6'7" and 5th pick

Isaac Okoro and Patrick Williams should still be available both good pwings

That's a legitimately awful trade for the Cavs. Just an FYI, teams like the Wolves and Celtics have been rumored to have put 14 and 17 on the table for Nance. Oubre is unrestricted next summer if the Cavs have any interest, they can just sign him.

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[jbk1234]

No, that's not a good trade. That's a horrid trade. Nance is worth more than Oubre and possibly even the #10 pick in this draft.

Nance didn't even start on the worst team in the NBA averaging just 10 points......... Oubre is younger ,started 55/ 56 games, ave. just under 19 ppg and 6.4 rpg . Oubre is good now and would fit in with the young Cavs.

There were two players on the Cavs who played substantial minutes and had net positive RPMs: Nance and Love. Given the fact that we started guys who wouldn't have started for another team, for a variety of reasons, I wouldn't put much stock in who started and who didn't.

Cedi had better defensive stats and shot better from 3 point range than Oubre.

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[jbk1234]

There's no one in this draft thats going to plug the big hole defensively that Garland and Sexton are to the Cavs defense.Nobody wants KLove unless its pennies on the dollar,TT blue collar and loyal should be allowed to move on to a contending team,and is Drummond just a financial chip to be used.
So getting a high flying polished scorer like Obi Toppin should be the Cavs pick.Cavs are going to need an inside scoring presence sooner than later.

TT "should be allowed to move on to a contending team"? He is a F/A, he can do what he wants. Otherwise I agree with you. And, yes Drummond is likely a trade piece at the dl used to acquire other assets. Also, I don't think Oubre is worth moving down 5 spots in this draft. He would fill a need, and his age fits whatever timeline the Cavs are working with but adding Nance Jr. kills it for me.

I really don't see anything Oubre brings that KPJ doesn't. He's been a bad defender his entire career, he's not a good three point shooter, and he's a high usage player on offense.

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[Stillwater]

The Cavs shouldn't let anyone on the roster over the age of 27 impact who they draft, and they really shouldn't let TT or Drummond influence who they draft.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

At this point I really do see Okongwu as a great fit, but they need to let Tristan go in order to make that work. Its tough because TT is beloved in the lockeroom, by KLove, his leadership and nostalgia of those older teams. I really wish we just didnt make that Drummond move at all--it would be a lot easier to be more flexible in the draft.

Everything Ive been reading on The Athletic and from John Hollinger says the two players the Cavs are most interested in are Deni and Toppin. Which is somewhat shocking considering the defensive power that Okongwu/Okoro both bring.

I really dont know what to think about Toppin. On one hand hes a immediate impact offensive player. But he is so bad on defense that I cant look past it. He also gives me a 'bust' type of vibe for whatever reason. Deni is still in my eyes a risk and stands more of a chance to become a Bogdonavic/Osman level player than he does being a Luka or Hedo level European player.

Hopefully its all just a smokescreen for Okongwu or Okoro

yeah its shocking because its smoke to see who might offer to trade up for one or the other as they are both prospects that could get trade up interest with the Hawks as well.
imo there is some reasonable justification in taking Deni longterm if they really think he is worlds better over time than Cedi ( I dont) but not Toppin unless by long term they intend to use him off the bench until Love retires and really Toppin is the win now big you add when you dont need anything else and not one you add when you need defenders big time even if they completely ignore fit and pick BPA neither one of these guys is likely the actual BPA at 5.

[Mind_Odyssey]

This team has nobody worth building around.

Just draft a guy you think can be a guy you build around. Don’t care who.

[Revenged25]

This team has nobody worth building around.

Just draft a guy you think can be a guy you build around. Don’t care who.

There isn't anyone in this draft like that.

[jbk1234]

This team has nobody worth building around.

Just draft a guy you think can be a guy you build around. Don’t care who.

There isn't anyone in this draft like that.

Wiseman arguably, but he'll likely be gone and he has real boom or bust potential.

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[Stillwater]

My stomach turned reading this. Dumbass https://www.spin.ph/basketball/nba/cavs-guard-kevin-porter-jr-arrested-on-weapons-charges-a1553-20201116
Hopefully this was just a misunderstanding but it doesn't look good at all.

[Revenged25]

My stomach turned reading this. Dumbass https://www.spin.ph/basketball/nba/cavs-guard-kevin-porter-jr-arrested-on-weapons-charges-a1553-20201116
Hopefully this was just a misunderstanding but it doesn't look good at all.

It's just an improper transport of a weapon charge, not an unregistered firearm or illegal possession of one. He'll get a fine, probably a mandatory gun safety course, maybe some probation at most. If he makes a similar mistake again, well that's when I'll start getting worried.

[Stillwater]

My stomach turned reading this. Dumbass https://www.spin.ph/basketball/nba/cavs-guard-kevin-porter-jr-arrested-on-weapons-charges-a1553-20201116
Hopefully this was just a misunderstanding but it doesn't look good at all.

It's just an improper transport of a weapon charge, not an unregistered firearm or illegal possession of one. He'll get a fine, probably a mandatory gun safety course, maybe some probation at most. If he makes a similar mistake again, well that's when I'll start getting worried.

I heard he flipped his car was lucky to walk away unharmed and the cops suspected marijuana possession but that part was not proven whereas the loaded gun was arrest worthy .
Hes young we all make mistakes and marijuana is nothing anymore imo but unfortunately still can cost you.
I just hope the wreck wasnt a sign hes suicidal.
Add that improper handling of a firearm can be a misdemeanor thats usually the case with a registered but loaded gun and some reports are suggesting a 4th degree felony charge which could indicate there was evidence the gun was fired recently possibly witnessed etc.
Either way its sad news because the kid was really looking like draft steal now we may never find out even though its possible it gets thrown out its probably more likely something he has hanging over him his entire career if it aint over already.
Probably not but i mean media is going to crucify him and you know they're talking about it with two days left before the draft and the common concerns teams had with drafting him given his history. Father being murdered ,unstable emotions etc.

[Revenged25]

My stomach turned reading this. Dumbass https://www.spin.ph/basketball/nba/cavs-guard-kevin-porter-jr-arrested-on-weapons-charges-a1553-20201116
Hopefully this was just a misunderstanding but it doesn't look good at all.

It's just an improper transport of a weapon charge, not an unregistered firearm or illegal possession of one. He'll get a fine, probably a mandatory gun safety course, maybe some probation at most. If he makes a similar mistake again, well that's when I'll start getting worried.

I heard he flipped his car was lucky to walk away unharmed and the cops suspected marijuana possession but that part was not proven whereas the loaded gun was arrest worthy .
Hes young we all make mistakes and marijuana is nothing anymore imo but unfortunately still can cost you.
I just hope the wreck wasnt a sign hes suicidal.
Add that improper handling of a firearm can be a misdemeanor thats usually the case with a registered but loaded gun and some reports are suggesting a 4th degree felony charge which could indicate there was evidence the gun was fired recently possibly witnessed etc.
Either way its sad news because the kid was really looking like draft steal now we may never find out even though its possible it gets thrown out its probably more likely something he has hanging over him his entire career if it aint over already.
Probably not but i mean media is going to crucify him and you know they're talking about it with two days left before the draft and the common concerns teams had with drafting him given his history. Father being murdered ,unstable emotions etc.

I haven't heard any of that in anything I've seen. Also other places that have talked about this seems that the Felony is the normal charge on initial booking that then gets plead down to a misdemeanor.

[tleikheen]

Alot of problems in Cleveland :
a bottom 2 or 3 worst team and penned to be there again
atrocious defensively starting with playing two undersize (6'1")guards ranked at the bottom for their positions
now the Cavs best hope (KPJ) is getting big publicity for all the wrong reasons and Cav's fanz w/excuses for him

BR last draft today ...... #5 Obi Toppin, makes alot of sense if KLove is being marketed to anyone who will give up some young talent,basically pennies on the dollar and TT ready to bolt for a team looking to win a championship.

Maybe Garland can be moved to a Detroit's 7th pick ,but when truth be told .... a little PG like Garland isn't as valued by other teams like Cavs value them

[JonFromVA]

Alot of problems in Cleveland :
a bottom 2 or 3 worst team and penned to be there again
atrocious defensively starting with playing two undersize (6'1")guards ranked at the bottom for their positions
now the Cavs best hope (KPJ) is getting big publicity for all the wrong reasons and Cav's fanz w/excuses for him

BR last draft today ...... #5 Obi Toppin, makes alot of sense if KLove is being marketed to anyone who will give up some young talent,basically pennies on the dollar and TT ready to bolt for a team looking to win a championship.

Maybe Garland can be moved to a Detroit's 7th pick ,but when truth be told .... a little PG like Garland isn't as valued by other teams like Cavs value them

Not sure how much sense Toppin makes if the goal is to improve the defense. His defense, his age, his build, his weight, his level of competition, etc, etc, are all concerns at the pro level.

Speaking of the Cavs defense, it was trash long before Sexton and Garland came to Cleveland - at least 19 and 20 year old players typically improve on D.