2022-23 Regular Season

[jbk1234]

Sometimes there's no productive way to tell a player who thinks he's worth a max contract that not only is he worth a fraction of that but you've brought in someone to compete for his spot and you want him to take a back-seat. Thankfully Allen is an easy going guy and we didn't stain our budding relationship with him by trying to appease Drummond and continuing to start him.

Anyway, I'll point out there's a difference between trying to trade a player and being able to trade a player. Drummond's only value was his ability to absorb salary in a deal as an expiring. He played pretty well for the Nets and they wouldn't even keep him. He'll be backing up Vucevic in Chicago for $6.6M/2.

Thanks goodness Allen hasn't depreciated like that.

Which is why you trade that player even at a less-than-hoped-for return. The day we traded for Allen, I made a post-your-Drummond-offers thread on the T&T board. Unlike KPJ, that was a train you could see coming.

Depends ... clearing his cap space off the books is worth something.

What was the best offer for Drummond a fan was willing to give you? Got a link to that thread?

I tried a google search and for some reason it's best guess was a reply you made in a RealGM article by Jonathan Tsharks about how the Cavs had completely bungled their rebuild and made things worse by acquiring Luol Deng. Which, btw, I would have mentioned the idea behind the move wasn't to make the playoffs and declare success ... it was to see how our young players looked with some competent vets around them so we could more properly evaluate them before we were being asked to dish out max deals. Similar in a sense to trading for Drummond so we could see how Sexland looked/developed with a rim protector / post-presence.

When we traded for Deng, it was with the idea that if things worked out, he'd be a starter in Cleveland. It was defensible given the acquisition costs. When we traded for Allen, the chances of Drummond working out, in a contract year, were slim. If or when you made the decision to start Allen, who was also heading into RFA, there was going to be problem.

I don't know what Sexton's thinking or whether the passage of time might help salve some wounded pride. Maybe the parties settle on $15M, maybe that gesture is enough to make Sexton content, but increasingly, I'm more and more concerned that his expectations have been woefully mismanaged by not one, but two sets of agents. If he still thinks this should be his team, and he's fixated on Garland's contract, then it's probably best to get what you can get and move on because you really don't want to bring that mindset into the locker room. I'm not convinced you want him on the Q.O., even off the bench, in a prove it year and with a chip on his shoulder.

Edit: Looks like Monk may have been the best asset offered by Drummond with expiring deals on the T&T board. But there was a lot of chatter about the Raptors wanting to trade for him while shipping Lowry out to a third team.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2040396&p=87962931&hilit=drummond+offers#p87962931

[JonFromVA]

Which is why you trade that player even at a less-than-hoped-for return. The day we traded for Allen, I made a post-your-Drummond-offers thread on the T&T board. Unlike KPJ, that was a train you could see coming.

Depends ... clearing his cap space off the books is worth something.

What was the best offer for Drummond a fan was willing to give you? Got a link to that thread?

I tried a google search and for some reason it's best guess was a reply you made in a RealGM article by Jonathan Tsharks about how the Cavs had completely bungled their rebuild and made things worse by acquiring Luol Deng. Which, btw, I would have mentioned the idea behind the move wasn't to make the playoffs and declare success ... it was to see how our young players looked with some competent vets around them so we could more properly evaluate them before we were being asked to dish out max deals. Similar in a sense to trading for Drummond so we could see how Sexland looked/developed with a rim protector / post-presence.

When we traded for Deng, it was with the idea that if things worked out, he'd be a starter in Cleveland. It was defensible given the acquisition costs. When we traded for Allen, the chances of Drummond working out, in a contract year, were slim. If or when you made the decision to start Allen, who was also heading into RFA, there was going to be problem.

I don't know what Sexton's thinking or whether the passage of time might help salve some wounded pride. Maybe the parties settle on $15M, maybe that gesture is enough to make Sexton content, but increasingly, I'm more and more concerned that his expectations have been woefully mismanaged by not one, but two sets of agents. If he still thinks this should be his team, and he's fixated on Garland's contract, then it's probably best to get what you can get and move on because you really don't want to bring that mindset into the locker room. I'm not convinced you want him on the Q.O., even off the bench, in a prove it year and with a chip on his shoulder.

Edit: Looks like Monk may have been the best asset offered with expiring deals.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2040396&p=87962931&hilit=drummond+offers#p87962931

Allen was a free-agent too, that he was willing to accept $20M/yr from us (flat) without drama was pretty cool (even if some still saw it as an overpay), but unless they made the trade with that understanding there was still a chance we could have ended up with Drummond.

I mean, he was playing pretty well for us up until the trade. If he simply acted like a professional rather than pouting, he could have finished the season as a starter, and would have been in good shape to earn a decent contract from someone; but his ego wouldn't let him cope with any of that ... and now he's stuck taking the minimum.

The moral of the story IMO is trying to guess what will motivate someone with questionable love of the game who was always told he was the face of the franchise and banked well over $100M is tricky at best.

I don't think Andre informs us what we should do as we hedge our bets with Collin and Caris, they are very different people who in large part were brought in to the organization because of their character.

The math should be super simple ... play well, fit in, be a good teammate and good things will come your way.

[JonFromVA]

Edit: Looks like Monk may have been the best asset offered by Drummond with expiring deals on the T&T board. But there was a lot of chatter about the Raptors wanting to trade for him while shipping Lowry out to a third team.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2040396&p=87962931&hilit=drummond+offers#p87962931

I just read through that thread, so wanted to add that I didn't see any offers from a fan that wanted their team to get Drummond. Just a Knicks fan trying to think of a way to get Garland and another fan simply trying to find something that would work salary wise.

So, even before he tanked his value, nobody was particular excited to add Andre. Pretty much the same situation as with Collin and Caris ... their market value and what they're asking to be paid is out of whack. At least if we hold on to them something positive could happen. It's hard not to look at it that way unless you know the relationship is toxic.

[jbk1234]

Depends ... clearing his cap space off the books is worth something.

What was the best offer for Drummond a fan was willing to give you? Got a link to that thread?

I tried a google search and for some reason it's best guess was a reply you made in a RealGM article by Jonathan Tsharks about how the Cavs had completely bungled their rebuild and made things worse by acquiring Luol Deng. Which, btw, I would have mentioned the idea behind the move wasn't to make the playoffs and declare success ... it was to see how our young players looked with some competent vets around them so we could more properly evaluate them before we were being asked to dish out max deals. Similar in a sense to trading for Drummond so we could see how Sexland looked/developed with a rim protector / post-presence.

When we traded for Deng, it was with the idea that if things worked out, he'd be a starter in Cleveland. It was defensible given the acquisition costs. When we traded for Allen, the chances of Drummond working out, in a contract year, were slim. If or when you made the decision to start Allen, who was also heading into RFA, there was going to be problem.

I don't know what Sexton's thinking or whether the passage of time might help salve some wounded pride. Maybe the parties settle on $15M, maybe that gesture is enough to make Sexton content, but increasingly, I'm more and more concerned that his expectations have been woefully mismanaged by not one, but two sets of agents. If he still thinks this should be his team, and he's fixated on Garland's contract, then it's probably best to get what you can get and move on because you really don't want to bring that mindset into the locker room. I'm not convinced you want him on the Q.O., even off the bench, in a prove it year and with a chip on his shoulder.

Edit: Looks like Monk may have been the best asset offered with expiring deals.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2040396&p=87962931&hilit=drummond+offers#p87962931

Allen was a free-agent too, that he was willing to accept $20M/yr from us (flat) without drama was pretty cool (even if some still saw it as an overpay), but unless they made the trade with that understanding there was still a chance we could have ended up with Drummond.

I mean, he was playing pretty well for us up until the trade. If he simply acted like a professional rather than pouting, he could have finished the season as a starter, and would have been in good shape to earn a decent contract from someone; but his ego wouldn't let him cope with any of that ... and now he's stuck taking the minimum.

The moral of the story IMO is trying to guess what will motivate someone with questionable love of the game who was always told he was the face of the franchise and banked well over $100M is tricky at best.

I don't think Andre informs us what we should do as we hedge our bets with Collin and Caris, they are very different people who in large part were brought in to the organization because of their character.

The math should be super simple ... play well, fit in, be a good teammate and good things will come your way.

I think the moral of Drummond's story is that no matter how disappointed you are about your circumstances in a contract year, it's not a good idea to undertake actions that will make your free agent market even worse. The problem with that from the team's perspective, is the player is still screwing up your season. If it extends to the locker room, you have to send him home. If you have to send him home, then his trade market is all that much worse. If you see it coming, or even if you think there's a good possibility it might be coming, get out ahead of it.

I do worry about Klutch making a difficult, even delicate situation unsalvageable. Playing out the string is fine. A Mitchell trade could open up a door whether there wasn't one before. But the rhetoric about holding out into training camp or past the deadline for signing the Q.O., that's not helping anyone, including Sexton. At a certain point, you can either massage an acceptable offer out of the market, or you cannot. If it looks like it's not going to happen, you have a responsibility to be honest about it with your client.

[JonFromVA]

When we traded for Deng, it was with the idea that if things worked out, he'd be a starter in Cleveland. It was defensible given the acquisition costs. When we traded for Allen, the chances of Drummond working out, in a contract year, were slim. If or when you made the decision to start Allen, who was also heading into RFA, there was going to be problem.

I don't know what Sexton's thinking or whether the passage of time might help salve some wounded pride. Maybe the parties settle on $15M, maybe that gesture is enough to make Sexton content, but increasingly, I'm more and more concerned that his expectations have been woefully mismanaged by not one, but two sets of agents. If he still thinks this should be his team, and he's fixated on Garland's contract, then it's probably best to get what you can get and move on because you really don't want to bring that mindset into the locker room. I'm not convinced you want him on the Q.O., even off the bench, in a prove it year and with a chip on his shoulder.

Edit: Looks like Monk may have been the best asset offered with expiring deals.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=2040396&p=87962931&hilit=drummond+offers#p87962931

Allen was a free-agent too, that he was willing to accept $20M/yr from us (flat) without drama was pretty cool (even if some still saw it as an overpay), but unless they made the trade with that understanding there was still a chance we could have ended up with Drummond.

I mean, he was playing pretty well for us up until the trade. If he simply acted like a professional rather than pouting, he could have finished the season as a starter, and would have been in good shape to earn a decent contract from someone; but his ego wouldn't let him cope with any of that ... and now he's stuck taking the minimum.

The moral of the story IMO is trying to guess what will motivate someone with questionable love of the game who was always told he was the face of the franchise and banked well over $100M is tricky at best.

I don't think Andre informs us what we should do as we hedge our bets with Collin and Caris, they are very different people who in large part were brought in to the organization because of their character.

The math should be super simple ... play well, fit in, be a good teammate and good things will come your way.

I think the moral of Drummond's story is that no matter how disappointed you are about your circumstances in a contract year, it's not a good idea to undertake actions that will make your free agent market even worse. The problem with that from the team's perspective, is the player is still screwing up your season. If it extends to the locker room, you have to send him home. If you have to send him home, then his trade market is all that much worse. If you see it coming, or even if you think there's a good possibility it might be coming, get out ahead of it.

I do worry about Klutch making a difficult, even delicate situation unsalvageable. Playing out the string is fine. A Mitchell trade could open up a door whether there wasn't one before. But the rhetoric about holding out into training camp or past the deadline for signing the Q.O., that's not helping anyone, including Sexton. At a certain point, you can either massage an acceptable offer out of the market, or you cannot. If it looks like it's not going to happen, you have a responsibility to be honest about it with your client.

As long as Collin remains unsigned there's still a chance to S&T him to a team that will pay him what he wants, so I unfortunately get the rationale. I imagine he'd still want to take the QO at some point to prove his worth and so he can become a UFA next year, but he doesn't even have to do that.

[jbk1234]

Allen was a free-agent too, that he was willing to accept $20M/yr from us (flat) without drama was pretty cool (even if some still saw it as an overpay), but unless they made the trade with that understanding there was still a chance we could have ended up with Drummond.

I mean, he was playing pretty well for us up until the trade. If he simply acted like a professional rather than pouting, he could have finished the season as a starter, and would have been in good shape to earn a decent contract from someone; but his ego wouldn't let him cope with any of that ... and now he's stuck taking the minimum.

The moral of the story IMO is trying to guess what will motivate someone with questionable love of the game who was always told he was the face of the franchise and banked well over $100M is tricky at best.

I don't think Andre informs us what we should do as we hedge our bets with Collin and Caris, they are very different people who in large part were brought in to the organization because of their character.

The math should be super simple ... play well, fit in, be a good teammate and good things will come your way.

I think the moral of Drummond's story is that no matter how disappointed you are about your circumstances in a contract year, it's not a good idea to undertake actions that will make your free agent market even worse. The problem with that from the team's perspective, is the player is still screwing up your season. If it extends to the locker room, you have to send him home. If you have to send him home, then his trade market is all that much worse. If you see it coming, or even if you think there's a good possibility it might be coming, get out ahead of it.

I do worry about Klutch making a difficult, even delicate situation unsalvageable. Playing out the string is fine. A Mitchell trade could open up a door whether there wasn't one before. But the rhetoric about holding out into training camp or past the deadline for signing the Q.O., that's not helping anyone, including Sexton. At a certain point, you can either massage an acceptable offer out of the market, or you cannot. If it looks like it's not going to happen, you have a responsibility to be honest about it with your client.

As long as Collin remains unsigned there's still a chance to S&T him to a team that will pay him what he wants, so I unfortunately get the rationale. I imagine he'd still want to take the QO at some point to prove his worth and so he can become a UFA next year, but he doesn't even have to do that.

Once we've gotten there, how great is that chance? We're talking about a scenario where the return is acceptable to the Cavs and BYC is complied with. I mean that's great if it happens, but at best it seems like a 5% chance of happening with a 95% chance of maintaining Sexton's current contract expectations and making him more upset as he actually starts missing paychecks.

[JonFromVA]

I think the moral of Drummond's story is that no matter how disappointed you are about your circumstances in a contract year, it's not a good idea to undertake actions that will make your free agent market even worse. The problem with that from the team's perspective, is the player is still screwing up your season. If it extends to the locker room, you have to send him home. If you have to send him home, then his trade market is all that much worse. If you see it coming, or even if you think there's a good possibility it might be coming, get out ahead of it.

I do worry about Klutch making a difficult, even delicate situation unsalvageable. Playing out the string is fine. A Mitchell trade could open up a door whether there wasn't one before. But the rhetoric about holding out into training camp or past the deadline for signing the Q.O., that's not helping anyone, including Sexton. At a certain point, you can either massage an acceptable offer out of the market, or you cannot. If it looks like it's not going to happen, you have a responsibility to be honest about it with your client.

As long as Collin remains unsigned there's still a chance to S&T him to a team that will pay him what he wants, so I unfortunately get the rationale. I imagine he'd still want to take the QO at some point to prove his worth and so he can become a UFA next year, but he doesn't even have to do that.

Once we've gotten there, how great is that chance? We're talking about a scenario where the return is acceptable to the Cavs and BYC is complied with. I mean that's great if it happens, but at best it seems like a 5% chance of happening with a 95% chance of maintaining Sexton's current contract expectations and making him more upset as he actually starts missing paychecks.

In a league that runs on collusion, odds don't mean much. Klutch has a goal and the only thing we can do is try to guess what that is.

But if somehow Collin got it in his mind that he could sit out this year, and still get the $125M/5yr offer next Summer he feels he's worth, then unless he can get an insurance policy for way less than his salary, he actually would have every reason not to play.

[jbk1234]

As long as Collin remains unsigned there's still a chance to S&T him to a team that will pay him what he wants, so I unfortunately get the rationale. I imagine he'd still want to take the QO at some point to prove his worth and so he can become a UFA next year, but he doesn't even have to do that.

Once we've gotten there, how great is that chance? We're talking about a scenario where the return is acceptable to the Cavs and BYC is complied with. I mean that's great if it happens, but at best it seems like a 5% chance of happening with a 95% chance of maintaining Sexton's current contract expectations and making him more upset as he actually starts missing paychecks.

In a league that runs on collusion, odds don't mean much. Klutch has a goal and the only thing we can do is try to guess what that is.

But if somehow Collin got it in his mind that he could sit out this year, and still get the $125M/5yr offer next Summer he feels he's worth, then unless he can get an insurance policy for way less than his salary, he actually would have every reason not to play.

You have to have someone to collude with at 5/$125M.

[toooskies]

I think the negotiations on Sexton have probably gone this way:

Klutch: Collin deserves $20+m.
Cavs: We're $13m under the tax, here's a three year deal.
Klutch: Nope. We'll look for other offers...
<Klutch tries to find other offers but doesn't find one they want to sign>
Klutch: Sure you can't offer more than $13m?
Cavs: Well, we're signing Rubio. Let's see if we can offload Osman for free in a sign and trade...
<Cavs talk to Indiana>
Cavs: Nope. We'll keep trying, and maybe we just waive and stretch Windler to get to $15m, but we can't sign you to more than our first offer until we offload some salary.
Klutch: We can wait for you to do that.

So contract negotiations are stuck until the Cavs can part with Osman or Windler for negligible cost, and then the Cavs may (or may not) make a bigger offer.

[JonFromVA]

Once we've gotten there, how great is that chance? We're talking about a scenario where the return is acceptable to the Cavs and BYC is complied with. I mean that's great if it happens, but at best it seems like a 5% chance of happening with a 95% chance of maintaining Sexton's current contract expectations and making him more upset as he actually starts missing paychecks.

In a league that runs on collusion, odds don't mean much. Klutch has a goal and the only thing we can do is try to guess what that is.

But if somehow Collin got it in his mind that he could sit out this year, and still get the $125M/5yr offer next Summer he feels he's worth, then unless he can get an insurance policy for way less than his salary, he actually would have every reason not to play.

You have to have someone to collude with at 5/$125M.

Collin isn't signed to a deal and somehow the people involved convinced themselves this was a good idea, that something is going to change if they wait.

[JonFromVA]

I think the negotiations on Sexton have probably gone this way:

Klutch: Collin deserves $20+m.
Cavs: We're $13m under the tax, here's a three year deal.
Klutch: Nope. We'll look for other offers...
<Klutch tries to find other offers but doesn't find one they want to sign>
Klutch: Sure you can't offer more than $13m?
Cavs: Well, we're signing Rubio. Let's see if we can offload Osman for free in a sign and trade...
<Cavs talk to Indiana>
Cavs: Nope. We'll keep trying, and maybe we just waive and stretch Windler to get to $15m, but we can't sign you to more than our first offer until we offload some salary.
Klutch: We can wait for you to do that.

So contract negotiations are stuck until the Cavs can part with Osman or Windler for negligible cost, and then the Cavs may (or may not) make a bigger offer.

It's a possibility and clearing up a roster spot before signing Collin is a necessity, the question is why not just announce both sides have an agreement in principal rather than start talking about holding out?

If Klutch has come down from $25M/yr, there's been no indication and fact is the Cavs could pay him that if they wanted to.

[jbk1234]

I think the negotiations on Sexton have probably gone this way:

Klutch: Collin deserves $20+m.
Cavs: We're $13m under the tax, here's a three year deal.
Klutch: Nope. We'll look for other offers...
<Klutch tries to find other offers but doesn't find one they want to sign>
Klutch: Sure you can't offer more than $13m?
Cavs: Well, we're signing Rubio. Let's see if we can offload Osman for free in a sign and trade...
<Cavs talk to Indiana>
Cavs: Nope. We'll keep trying, and maybe we just waive and stretch Windler to get to $15m, but we can't sign you to more than our first offer until we offload some salary.
Klutch: We can wait for you to do that.

So contract negotiations are stuck until the Cavs can part with Osman or Windler for negligible cost, and then the Cavs may (or may not) make a bigger offer.

I hope you're right. I'd be content getting Sexton back on $15M per especially if it meant not having this drama hanging over the rest of the team. Unfortunately, I suspect that Sexton doesn't want to sign at that number and Klutch has been so public in its pronouncements they may have backed themselves into a corner.

[JujitsuFlip]

As long as Collin remains unsigned there's still a chance to S&T him to a team that will pay him what he wants, so I unfortunately get the rationale. I imagine he'd still want to take the QO at some point to prove his worth and so he can become a UFA next year, but he doesn't even have to do that.

Once we've gotten there, how great is that chance? We're talking about a scenario where the return is acceptable to the Cavs and BYC is complied with. I mean that's great if it happens, but at best it seems like a 5% chance of happening with a 95% chance of maintaining Sexton's current contract expectations and making him more upset as he actually starts missing paychecks.

In a league that runs on collusion, odds don't mean much. Klutch has a goal and the only thing we can do is try to guess what that is.

But if somehow Collin got it in his mind that he could sit out this year, and still get the $125M/5yr offer next Summer he feels he's worth, then unless he can get an insurance policy for way less than his salary, he actually would have every reason not to play.

Well, he can't get 5 years from anyone other than the Cavs, so I doubt that is what he would hold out for.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, if he holds out, he's just going to be restricted again next summer. Which with more money out there, it's possible he gets a deal but far from guaranteed. Seems like a very risky play, signing the QO may be a better option, tbh.

[JonFromVA]

Once we've gotten there, how great is that chance? We're talking about a scenario where the return is acceptable to the Cavs and BYC is complied with. I mean that's great if it happens, but at best it seems like a 5% chance of happening with a 95% chance of maintaining Sexton's current contract expectations and making him more upset as he actually starts missing paychecks.

In a league that runs on collusion, odds don't mean much. Klutch has a goal and the only thing we can do is try to guess what that is.

But if somehow Collin got it in his mind that he could sit out this year, and still get the $125M/5yr offer next Summer he feels he's worth, then unless he can get an insurance policy for way less than his salary, he actually would have every reason not to play.

Well, he can't get 5 years from anyone other than the Cavs, so I doubt that is what he would hold out for.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, if he holds out, he's just going to be restricted again next summer. Which with more money out there, it's possible he gets a deal but far from guaranteed. Seems like a very risky play, signing the QO may be a better option, tbh.

Can't he still get $125M/5 if we S&T him?

He can certainly get it, if we give it to him next Summer. As unrealistic as that may seem especially if we haven't seen him play in a couple years, if we have nothing better to do with our cap space ... it's at least a possible outcome.

The main advantage of him becoming unrestricted next year is teams don't have to worry with the Cavs matching. Someone can prioritize signing Collin like the Knicks went after Brunson, but I don't think Collin would necessarily mind coming back if the Cavs did match.

It's all the difference between trying to guess someone's motivations .vs. knowing them. We expect him to behave like other players, or at least other Klutch clients. Which is certainly reasonable, but ultimately just another assumption.

[jbk1234]

In a league that runs on collusion, odds don't mean much. Klutch has a goal and the only thing we can do is try to guess what that is.

But if somehow Collin got it in his mind that he could sit out this year, and still get the $125M/5yr offer next Summer he feels he's worth, then unless he can get an insurance policy for way less than his salary, he actually would have every reason not to play.

Well, he can't get 5 years from anyone other than the Cavs, so I doubt that is what he would hold out for.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, if he holds out, he's just going to be restricted again next summer. Which with more money out there, it's possible he gets a deal but far from guaranteed. Seems like a very risky play, signing the QO may be a better option, tbh.

Can't he still get $125M/5 if we S&T him?

He can certainly get it, if we give it to him next Summer. As unrealistic as that may seem especially if we haven't seen him play in a couple years, if we have nothing better to do with our cap space ... it's at least a possible outcome.

The main advantage of him becoming unrestricted next year is teams don't have to worry with the Cavs matching. Someone can prioritize signing Collin like the Knicks went after Brunson, but I don't think Collin would necessarily mind coming back if the Cavs did match.

It's all the difference between trying to guess someone's motivations .vs. knowing them. We expect him to behave like other players, or at least other Klutch clients. Which is certainly reasonable, but ultimately just another assumption.

Well, S&T caps out at 4 years under the CBA. He could have an unenforceable promise at 4 years for $120M, but let's just say I'm really, really skeptical.

[JonFromVA]

Well, he can't get 5 years from anyone other than the Cavs, so I doubt that is what he would hold out for.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, if he holds out, he's just going to be restricted again next summer. Which with more money out there, it's possible he gets a deal but far from guaranteed. Seems like a very risky play, signing the QO may be a better option, tbh.

Can't he still get $125M/5 if we S&T him?

He can certainly get it, if we give it to him next Summer. As unrealistic as that may seem especially if we haven't seen him play in a couple years, if we have nothing better to do with our cap space ... it's at least a possible outcome.

The main advantage of him becoming unrestricted next year is teams don't have to worry with the Cavs matching. Someone can prioritize signing Collin like the Knicks went after Brunson, but I don't think Collin would necessarily mind coming back if the Cavs did match.

It's all the difference between trying to guess someone's motivations .vs. knowing them. We expect him to behave like other players, or at least other Klutch clients. Which is certainly reasonable, but ultimately just another assumption.

Well, S&T caps out at 4 years under the CBA. He could have an unenforceable promise at 4 years for $120M, but let's just say I'm really, really skeptical.

Seems like $25M/yr is his goal, he might even prefer a shorter deal to reset as the cap goes up.

[JujitsuFlip]

In a league that runs on collusion, odds don't mean much. Klutch has a goal and the only thing we can do is try to guess what that is.

But if somehow Collin got it in his mind that he could sit out this year, and still get the $125M/5yr offer next Summer he feels he's worth, then unless he can get an insurance policy for way less than his salary, he actually would have every reason not to play.

Well, he can't get 5 years from anyone other than the Cavs, so I doubt that is what he would hold out for.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, if he holds out, he's just going to be restricted again next summer. Which with more money out there, it's possible he gets a deal but far from guaranteed. Seems like a very risky play, signing the QO may be a better option, tbh.

Can't he still get $125M/5 if we S&T him?

He can certainly get it, if we give it to him next Summer. As unrealistic as that may seem especially if we haven't seen him play in a couple years, if we have nothing better to do with our cap space ... it's at least a possible outcome.

The main advantage of him becoming unrestricted next year is teams don't have to worry with the Cavs matching. Someone can prioritize signing Collin like the Knicks went after Brunson, but I don't think Collin would necessarily mind coming back if the Cavs did match.

It's all the difference between trying to guess someone's motivations .vs. knowing them. We expect him to behave like other players, or at least other Klutch clients. Which is certainly reasonable, but ultimately just another assumption.

Nope, 4 years is the max on a S&T and it hard caps the team he lands with.

Cavs aren't paying Sexton that kinda money, I'd rather throw 1 year $25 million at a wing with size next summer, if those are the two choices lol

I do think being restricted may have limited his market early in free agency because teams don't want their cap potentially tied up for 48 hours while they wait.

[jbk1234]

Can't he still get $125M/5 if we S&T him?

He can certainly get it, if we give it to him next Summer. As unrealistic as that may seem especially if we haven't seen him play in a couple years, if we have nothing better to do with our cap space ... it's at least a possible outcome.

The main advantage of him becoming unrestricted next year is teams don't have to worry with the Cavs matching. Someone can prioritize signing Collin like the Knicks went after Brunson, but I don't think Collin would necessarily mind coming back if the Cavs did match.

It's all the difference between trying to guess someone's motivations .vs. knowing them. We expect him to behave like other players, or at least other Klutch clients. Which is certainly reasonable, but ultimately just another assumption.

Well, S&T caps out at 4 years under the CBA. He could have an unenforceable promise at 4 years for $120M, but let's just say I'm really, really skeptical.

Seems like $25M/yr is his goal, he might even prefer a shorter deal to reset as the cap goes up.

He's got the latter, the former is a non-starter for the Cavs so good luck I guess.

[jbk1234]

Well, he can't get 5 years from anyone other than the Cavs, so I doubt that is what he would hold out for.

Also, if I'm not mistaken, if he holds out, he's just going to be restricted again next summer. Which with more money out there, it's possible he gets a deal but far from guaranteed. Seems like a very risky play, signing the QO may be a better option, tbh.

Can't he still get $125M/5 if we S&T him?

He can certainly get it, if we give it to him next Summer. As unrealistic as that may seem especially if we haven't seen him play in a couple years, if we have nothing better to do with our cap space ... it's at least a possible outcome.

The main advantage of him becoming unrestricted next year is teams don't have to worry with the Cavs matching. Someone can prioritize signing Collin like the Knicks went after Brunson, but I don't think Collin would necessarily mind coming back if the Cavs did match.

It's all the difference between trying to guess someone's motivations .vs. knowing them. We expect him to behave like other players, or at least other Klutch clients. Which is certainly reasonable, but ultimately just another assumption.

Nope, 4 years is the max on a S&T and it hard caps the team he lands with.

Cavs aren't paying Sexton that kinda money, I'd rather throw 1 year $25 million at a wing with size next summer, if those are the two choices lol

I do think being restricted may have limited his market early in free agency because teams don't want their cap potentially tied up for 48 hours while they wait.

Perhaps, perhaps the Sexton's market starts at $20M nonsense made it a really easy decision for teams that were otherwise interested.

[JujitsuFlip]

Can't he still get $125M/5 if we S&T him?

He can certainly get it, if we give it to him next Summer. As unrealistic as that may seem especially if we haven't seen him play in a couple years, if we have nothing better to do with our cap space ... it's at least a possible outcome.

The main advantage of him becoming unrestricted next year is teams don't have to worry with the Cavs matching. Someone can prioritize signing Collin like the Knicks went after Brunson, but I don't think Collin would necessarily mind coming back if the Cavs did match.

It's all the difference between trying to guess someone's motivations .vs. knowing them. We expect him to behave like other players, or at least other Klutch clients. Which is certainly reasonable, but ultimately just another assumption.

Nope, 4 years is the max on a S&T and it hard caps the team he lands with.

Cavs aren't paying Sexton that kinda money, I'd rather throw 1 year $25 million at a wing with size next summer, if those are the two choices lol

I do think being restricted may have limited his market early in free agency because teams don't want their cap potentially tied up for 48 hours while they wait.

Perhaps, perhaps the Sexton's market starts at $20M nonsense made it a really easy decision for teams that were otherwise interested.

Yeah, who knows. I personally do not believe sitting the year out is going to raise his stock, especially since he will just be tendered another QO and be restricted yet again.