Game 32 : Atlanta Hawks (13-17) @ Cleveland Cavaliers (10-21) - 7:00PM

[JonFromVA]

The struggles that you see Collin having are not what is happening. Thats is guard measuring and baiting until a defender moves based on the teammate movement before he strikes...and if they dont bite then he has even more justification to search for his own shots until they do or he can follow the coaching protocol to less dynamic players to just pass out of it and look like they are clueless when in reality he could have easily made space for himself to chuck it.

I don't see this, but let's assume it's true for the moment and understand there are ramifications. If Collin continues to ignore Windler while he's taking laps around the floor, eventually Windler is going to stop and park himself in a corner and watch Sexton until he decides what he's going to do.

One of the fundamental roles of a PG (or just a good teammate) is to reward teammates for effort.

Which is not to say, Collin always ignores Windler; but Collin missing open teammates happens a lot. How do we know if it's happening too much? How do we know if his own scoring is carrying the team? We can see it in +/-.

Just like we used to see it with Delly and Kyrie when they ran the second unit. On what planet is Delly equal to Kyrie? Well, the answer is when asked to run a sub-par second unit. If Kyrie's shooting wasn't red-hot, we were better off with Delly, or better yet by pulling LeBron early and getting him back in the game (which is what we eventually had to do in the playoffs).

I got it...you want him to fail makes a ton of sense.
You are not seeing what the defenses are doing at all so keep trusting your +- buddy lol

It's always such a joy having open and honest discussions with you ...

[Stillwater]

I don't see this, but let's assume it's true for the moment and understand there are ramifications. If Collin continues to ignore Windler while he's taking laps around the floor, eventually Windler is going to stop and park himself in a corner and watch Sexton until he decides what he's going to do.

One of the fundamental roles of a PG (or just a good teammate) is to reward teammates for effort.

Which is not to say, Collin always ignores Windler; but Collin missing open teammates happens a lot. How do we know if it's happening too much? How do we know if his own scoring is carrying the team? We can see it in +/-.

Just like we used to see it with Delly and Kyrie when they ran the second unit. On what planet is Delly equal to Kyrie? Well, the answer is when asked to run a sub-par second unit. If Kyrie's shooting wasn't red-hot, we were better off with Delly, or better yet by pulling LeBron early and getting him back in the game (which is what we eventually had to do in the playoffs).

I got it...you want him to fail makes a ton of sense.
You are not seeing what the defenses are doing at all so keep trusting your +- buddy lol

I'm seeing exactly what the defenses are doing. It's not terribly difficult to comprehend. The question is whether he can adjust his game to it.

The learning curve for Sexton or any starting caliber guard in the NBA is becoming capable of adjusting to their coaching plans for those situations to expand his game beyond his instinct to score and developing some kind of chemistry with his team. advanced iq players like Darius are easy to fall in love with their games even though he lacks NBA level athleticism esp when they are given free reign to dribble around searching for lobs and floaters with teammates running to the corners for catch and shoot bail out passes when the defense collapses on said guard who cannot finish in the 1-3 foot range unless noone is there.
I think the misunderstanding is just how much Sexton is willing to sacrifice for the improvement of the win column to the point of trying to hard to follow the coaching which is constantly barked at him btw instead of cutting him loose to get into a rhythm and play free like he did against Kyrie.

[Stillwater]

I don't see this, but let's assume it's true for the moment and understand there are ramifications. If Collin continues to ignore Windler while he's taking laps around the floor, eventually Windler is going to stop and park himself in a corner and watch Sexton until he decides what he's going to do.

One of the fundamental roles of a PG (or just a good teammate) is to reward teammates for effort.

Which is not to say, Collin always ignores Windler; but Collin missing open teammates happens a lot. How do we know if it's happening too much? How do we know if his own scoring is carrying the team? We can see it in +/-.

Just like we used to see it with Delly and Kyrie when they ran the second unit. On what planet is Delly equal to Kyrie? Well, the answer is when asked to run a sub-par second unit. If Kyrie's shooting wasn't red-hot, we were better off with Delly, or better yet by pulling LeBron early and getting him back in the game (which is what we eventually had to do in the playoffs).

I got it...you want him to fail makes a ton of sense.
You are not seeing what the defenses are doing at all so keep trusting your +- buddy lol

It's always such a joy having open and honest discussions with you ...

sure thing man lol

[jbk1234]

I got it...you want him to fail makes a ton of sense.
You are not seeing what the defenses are doing at all so keep trusting your +- buddy lol

I'm seeing exactly what the defenses are doing. It's not terribly difficult to comprehend. The question is whether he can adjust his game to it.

The learning curve for Sexton or any starting caliber guard in the NBA is becoming capable of adjusting to their coaching plans for those situations to expand his game beyond his instinct to score and developing some kind of chemistry with his team. advanced iq players like Darius are easy to fall in love with their games even though he lacks NBA level athleticism esp when they are given free reign to dribble around searching for lobs and floaters with teammates running to the corners for catch and shoot bail out passes when the defense collapses on said guard who cannot finish in the 1-3 foot range unless noone is there.
I think the misunderstanding is just how much Sexton is willing to sacrifice for the improvement of the win column to the point of trying to hard to follow the coaching which is constantly barked at him btw instead of cutting him loose to get into a rhythm and play free like he did against Kyrie.

This is the misunderstanding alright. Because I see a guy who is worried primarily about getting his with an extension in mind. Kyrie is a garbage defender. The Nets are a bad defensive team. Not everyone is going to have grandpa DAJ as their rim protector. There is no question as to whether Sexton can carve up bad defensive teams and is great in the open floor. But this is the NBA and the opposing teams aren't always going to be bad defensively. Some of them are going to be quite good on that end. They're going to scout the Cavs and make a point to get back on defense. Changing our coach isn't going to change any of that.

[Stillwater]

I'm seeing exactly what the defenses are doing. It's not terribly difficult to comprehend. The question is whether he can adjust his game to it.

The learning curve for Sexton or any starting caliber guard in the NBA is becoming capable of adjusting to their coaching plans for those situations to expand his game beyond his instinct to score and developing some kind of chemistry with his team. advanced iq players like Darius are easy to fall in love with their games even though he lacks NBA level athleticism esp when they are given free reign to dribble around searching for lobs and floaters with teammates running to the corners for catch and shoot bail out passes when the defense collapses on said guard who cannot finish in the 1-3 foot range unless noone is there.
I think the misunderstanding is just how much Sexton is willing to sacrifice for the improvement of the win column to the point of trying to hard to follow the coaching which is constantly barked at him btw instead of cutting him loose to get into a rhythm and play free like he did against Kyrie.

This is the misunderstanding alright. Because I see a guy who is worried primarily about getting his with an extension in mind. Kyrie is a garbage defender. The Nets are a bad defensive team. Not everyone is going to have grandpa DAJ as their rim protector. There is no question as to whether Sexton can carve up bad defensive teams and is great in the open floor. But this is the NBA and the opposing teams aren't always going to be bad defensively. Some of them are going to be quite good on that end. They're going to scout the Cavs and make a point to get back on defense. Changing our coach isn't going to change any of that.

I think you still dont understand me but ok man.
The problem isnt the coach or Sexton it isnt DG or teams that play defense better than Kyrie...the problem is this is the early stages of a long ass rebuild and any amount of small victories will have to suffice but for most fans its never enough.
I disagree completely Sexton is playing for a contract unless you think everything anyone around him including his coaches say about him is bs

[JonFromVA]

I got it...you want him to fail makes a ton of sense.
You are not seeing what the defenses are doing at all so keep trusting your +- buddy lol

I'm seeing exactly what the defenses are doing. It's not terribly difficult to comprehend. The question is whether he can adjust his game to it.

The learning curve for Sexton or any starting caliber guard in the NBA is becoming capable of adjusting to their coaching plans for those situations to expand his game beyond his instinct to score and developing some kind of chemistry with his team. advanced iq players like Darius are easy to fall in love with their games even though he lacks NBA level athleticism esp when they are given free reign to dribble around searching for lobs and floaters with teammates running to the corners for catch and shoot bail out passes when the defense collapses on said guard who cannot finish in the 1-3 foot range unless noone is there.
I think the misunderstanding is just how much Sexton is willing to sacrifice for the improvement of the win column to the point of trying to hard to follow the coaching which is constantly barked at him btw instead of cutting him loose to get into a rhythm and play free like he did against Kyrie.

You pick on Garland constantly, but you don't you see he's trying to do what's best for the team and not just getting up his own shots?

He hit three 3's in a row at one point and you could see he was starting to get his confidence, then his missed his heat check, and he cooled his jets.

That's exactly what his coach (and teammates) want to see, even if it slows down his progress towards becoming a guy who can create his own shot and bend defenses to his will.

You got one thing right, though, all our players have a lot to work on except for perhaps Allen who's darn near perfect at the things you want a 7ft center to do in this day and age and improving on the things you wish they might be able to do - and still just 22 (only Okoro and Garland are younger).

We'd be in great shape if our other young players filled their roles as well.

I can only hope we considered paying Kenny Atkinson a boat load of cash before he accepted an offer from the Clippers to help Ty Lue in LA. I suppose Steve Balmer is the one owner that Dan Gilbert can't outbid, though, and of course JBB may have opposed it if he perceived the move as installing Atkinson as the team's next-coach-in-waiting.

It looks like we may have another opportunity to improve our player development if the TWolves let David Vanterpool go.

[Stillwater]

I'm seeing exactly what the defenses are doing. It's not terribly difficult to comprehend. The question is whether he can adjust his game to it.

The learning curve for Sexton or any starting caliber guard in the NBA is becoming capable of adjusting to their coaching plans for those situations to expand his game beyond his instinct to score and developing some kind of chemistry with his team. advanced iq players like Darius are easy to fall in love with their games even though he lacks NBA level athleticism esp when they are given free reign to dribble around searching for lobs and floaters with teammates running to the corners for catch and shoot bail out passes when the defense collapses on said guard who cannot finish in the 1-3 foot range unless noone is there.
I think the misunderstanding is just how much Sexton is willing to sacrifice for the improvement of the win column to the point of trying to hard to follow the coaching which is constantly barked at him btw instead of cutting him loose to get into a rhythm and play free like he did against Kyrie.

You pick on Garland constantly, but you don't you see he's trying to do what's best for the team and not just getting up his own shots?

He hit three 3's in a row at one point and you could see he was starting to get his confidence, then his missed his heat check, and he cooled his jets.

That's exactly what his coach (and teammates) want to see, even if it slows down his progress towards becoming a guy who can create his own shot and bend defenses to his will.

You got one thing right, though, all our players have a lot to work on except for perhaps Allen who's darn near perfect at the things you want a 7ft center to do in this day and age and improving on the things you wish they might be able to do - and still just 22 (only Okoro and Garland are younger).

We'd be in great shape if our other young players filled their roles as well.

I can only hope we considered paying Kenny Atkinson a boat load of cash before he accepted an offer from the Clippers to help Ty Lue in LA. I suppose Steve Balmer is the one owner that Dan Gilbert can't outbid, though, and of course JBB may have opposed it if he perceived the move as installing Atkinson as the team's next-coach-in-waiting.

It looks like we may have another opportunity to improve our player development if the TWolves let David Vanterpool go.

No I am pretty sure I got it all right, you just dont get it is all lol
this constant bolstering of DG without justification is laughable. He has a ton of skill but it does not matter at the pro level or he would be dominating already and he isnt. He can be looked at as a reliable back up pg that can play smart and make plays but he will be breaking the laws of nature if he manages to be a legit all star caliber pg in the league which is what you really need to justify the kind of $ Klutch will demand for the 5th pick in a any draft.

[JonFromVA]

The learning curve for Sexton or any starting caliber guard in the NBA is becoming capable of adjusting to their coaching plans for those situations to expand his game beyond his instinct to score and developing some kind of chemistry with his team. advanced iq players like Darius are easy to fall in love with their games even though he lacks NBA level athleticism esp when they are given free reign to dribble around searching for lobs and floaters with teammates running to the corners for catch and shoot bail out passes when the defense collapses on said guard who cannot finish in the 1-3 foot range unless noone is there.
I think the misunderstanding is just how much Sexton is willing to sacrifice for the improvement of the win column to the point of trying to hard to follow the coaching which is constantly barked at him btw instead of cutting him loose to get into a rhythm and play free like he did against Kyrie.

You pick on Garland constantly, but you don't you see he's trying to do what's best for the team and not just getting up his own shots?

He hit three 3's in a row at one point and you could see he was starting to get his confidence, then his missed his heat check, and he cooled his jets.

That's exactly what his coach (and teammates) want to see, even if it slows down his progress towards becoming a guy who can create his own shot and bend defenses to his will.

You got one thing right, though, all our players have a lot to work on except for perhaps Allen who's darn near perfect at the things you want a 7ft center to do in this day and age and improving on the things you wish they might be able to do - and still just 22 (only Okoro and Garland are younger).

We'd be in great shape if our other young players filled their roles as well.

I can only hope we considered paying Kenny Atkinson a boat load of cash before he accepted an offer from the Clippers to help Ty Lue in LA. I suppose Steve Balmer is the one owner that Dan Gilbert can't outbid, though, and of course JBB may have opposed it if he perceived the move as installing Atkinson as the team's next-coach-in-waiting.

It looks like we may have another opportunity to improve our player development if the TWolves let David Vanterpool go.

No I am pretty sure I got it all right, you just dont get it is all lol
this constant bolstering of DG without justification is laughable. He has a ton of skill but it does not matter at the pro level or he would be dominating already and he isnt. He can be looked at as a reliable back up pg that can play smart and make plays but he will be breaking the laws of nature if he manages to be a legit all star caliber pg in the league which is what you really need to justify the kind of $ Klutch will demand for the 5th pick in a any draft.

What exactly are these "laws of nature" you're referring to?

[Stillwater]

You pick on Garland constantly, but you don't you see he's trying to do what's best for the team and not just getting up his own shots?

He hit three 3's in a row at one point and you could see he was starting to get his confidence, then his missed his heat check, and he cooled his jets.

That's exactly what his coach (and teammates) want to see, even if it slows down his progress towards becoming a guy who can create his own shot and bend defenses to his will.

You got one thing right, though, all our players have a lot to work on except for perhaps Allen who's darn near perfect at the things you want a 7ft center to do in this day and age and improving on the things you wish they might be able to do - and still just 22 (only Okoro and Garland are younger).

We'd be in great shape if our other young players filled their roles as well.

I can only hope we considered paying Kenny Atkinson a boat load of cash before he accepted an offer from the Clippers to help Ty Lue in LA. I suppose Steve Balmer is the one owner that Dan Gilbert can't outbid, though, and of course JBB may have opposed it if he perceived the move as installing Atkinson as the team's next-coach-in-waiting.

It looks like we may have another opportunity to improve our player development if the TWolves let David Vanterpool go.

No I am pretty sure I got it all right, you just dont get it is all lol
this constant bolstering of DG without justification is laughable. He has a ton of skill but it does not matter at the pro level or he would be dominating already and he isnt. He can be looked at as a reliable back up pg that can play smart and make plays but he will be breaking the laws of nature if he manages to be a legit all star caliber pg in the league which is what you really need to justify the kind of $ Klutch will demand for the 5th pick in a any draft.

What exactly are these "laws of nature" you're referring to?

for starters to become much more athletic much faster and the miracle of a sudden growth spurt wouldn't hurt either.

[jbk1234]

No I am pretty sure I got it all right, you just dont get it is all lol
this constant bolstering of DG without justification is laughable. He has a ton of skill but it does not matter at the pro level or he would be dominating already and he isnt. He can be looked at as a reliable back up pg that can play smart and make plays but he will be breaking the laws of nature if he manages to be a legit all star caliber pg in the league which is what you really need to justify the kind of $ Klutch will demand for the 5th pick in a any draft.

What exactly are these "laws of nature" you're referring to?

for starters to become much more athletic much faster and the miracle of a sudden growth spurt wouldn't hurt either.

I think you confuse guys won't let the other team speed them up and play at their own pace with a lack of athleticism.

Luka Doncic isn't the fastest or tallest guy on the court, but if you gave me a time machine, I'm absolutely trading no. 8, removing the protections on the pick owed to the Hawks, and swapping JR for Bazemore.

Both Sexton and Garland would be elsewhere but the Cavs would already have their franchise cornerstone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[Stillwater]

What exactly are these "laws of nature" you're referring to?

for starters to become much more athletic much faster and the miracle of a sudden growth spurt wouldn't hurt either.

I think you confuse guys won't let the other team speed them up and play at their own pace with a lack of athleticism.

Luka Doncic isn't the fastest or tallest guy on the court, but if you gave me a time machine, I'm absolutely trading no. 8, removing the protections on the pick owed to the Hawks, and swapping JR for Bazemore.

Both Sexton and Garland would be elsewhere but the Cavs would already have their franchise cornerstone.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Luka is much bigger and far more athletic than dg even though luka is not a explosive guy.
I think anyone would have done that in a rewind scenario hell i was pissed when i heard they had a chance to get him and passed it up, but in thw same respect look what dallas had to give up in draft capital to bring in the 2nd stud in kp and how quickly that bit them in the ass. Luka so good of a scorer and has such a propensity for clutch shooting its hard not to love his game but he aint winning a chip with that roster.
Dg is a good player , i just cant get past the physical limitations , hopefully he proves me wrong for the Cavs sake because right now they are pushing Sexton away from his strength and somewhat forcing him to change too much of his game to accommodate the front office hitching thier wagon to a small pairing and their chances of winning are better with Okoro running next to sexton all game long with windler at the 2 or 3.

[JonFromVA]

No I am pretty sure I got it all right, you just dont get it is all lol
this constant bolstering of DG without justification is laughable. He has a ton of skill but it does not matter at the pro level or he would be dominating already and he isnt. He can be looked at as a reliable back up pg that can play smart and make plays but he will be breaking the laws of nature if he manages to be a legit all star caliber pg in the league which is what you really need to justify the kind of $ Klutch will demand for the 5th pick in a any draft.

What exactly are these "laws of nature" you're referring to?

for starters to become much more athletic much faster and the miracle of a sudden growth spurt wouldn't hurt either.

For starters? I wonder what else you've got.

Obviously Darius would have an easier time if he was taller/faster/stronger/etc, but it's not exactly hard to find a 6'2" guard with a similar level of athleticism that's become a starting quality PG and even an all-star.

I don't know that he has the body type to develop a fire plug type build, but strengthening his core would go a long ways towards helping him hold his ground on defense; but he's already shown improvement on defense just from last season to this season.

As for a potential Luka trade, we didn't have a shot once we fell to #8. Atlanta wanted Trae and with MPJ's injury there was little chance of him falling that far. There's also a chance if we did somehow get an earlier pick, we might had taken Trae ourselves. Yes, the Cavs liked Luka but, but that doesn't mean that when push comes to shove that he would have been the actual pick.

[Stillwater]

What exactly are these "laws of nature" you're referring to?

for starters to become much more athletic much faster and the miracle of a sudden growth spurt wouldn't hurt either.

For starters? I wonder what else you've got.

Obviously Darius would have an easier time if he was taller/faster/stronger/etc, but it's not exactly hard to find a 6'2" guard with a similar level of athleticism that's become a starting quality PG and even an all-star.

I don't know that he has the body type to develop a fire plug type build, but strengthening his core would go a long ways towards helping him hold his ground on defense; but he's already shown improvement on defense just from last season to this season.

As for a potential Luka trade, we didn't have a shot once we fell to #8. Atlanta wanted Trae and with MPJ's injury there was little chance of him falling that far. There's also a chance if we did somehow get an earlier pick, we might had taken Trae ourselves. Yes, the Cavs liked Luka but, but that doesn't mean that when push comes to shove that he would have been the actual pick.

They definitely had an offer from ATL to move up to 3 and they passed on it, thinking the price was too high, Cuban paid the price and is reaping the rewards. But that is irrelevant to the point of that argument that somehow a less than freakish athlete like Luka is somehow on the same tier as DG because of it. If any of you actually think DG is that high of an IQ player so be it, but even if he is it proves my point even further that at his size it doesnt work in the nba

[JonFromVA]

for starters to become much more athletic much faster and the miracle of a sudden growth spurt wouldn't hurt either.

For starters? I wonder what else you've got.

Obviously Darius would have an easier time if he was taller/faster/stronger/etc, but it's not exactly hard to find a 6'2" guard with a similar level of athleticism that's become a starting quality PG and even an all-star.

I don't know that he has the body type to develop a fire plug type build, but strengthening his core would go a long ways towards helping him hold his ground on defense; but he's already shown improvement on defense just from last season to this season.

As for a potential Luka trade, we didn't have a shot once we fell to #8. Atlanta wanted Trae and with MPJ's injury there was little chance of him falling that far. There's also a chance if we did somehow get an earlier pick, we might had taken Trae ourselves. Yes, the Cavs liked Luka but, but that doesn't mean that when push comes to shove that he would have been the actual pick.

They definitely had an offer from ATL to move up to 3 and they passed on it, thinking the price was too high, Cuban paid the price and is reaping the rewards. But that is irrelevant to the point of that argument that somehow a less than freakish athlete like Luka is somehow on the same tier as DG because of it. If any of you actually think DG is that high of an IQ player so be it, but even if he is it proves my point even further that at his size it doesnt work in the nba

a) My sources say Vardon got this wrong - that Atlanta was playing games with the Cavs to run up the price with the Mavs;

b) I'm not comparing Garland to Luka, you set the bar at whether a player with this size/athleticism can become an NBA starter or even an All-Star and there is no doubt it's a possibility. He still has to develop and grow if he wants to become more than a journeyman PG, but is it possible? Of course it is. The fact he's already demonstrating skills that some young guards cannot is a positive, not a negative.

[Stillwater]

For starters? I wonder what else you've got.

Obviously Darius would have an easier time if he was taller/faster/stronger/etc, but it's not exactly hard to find a 6'2" guard with a similar level of athleticism that's become a starting quality PG and even an all-star.

I don't know that he has the body type to develop a fire plug type build, but strengthening his core would go a long ways towards helping him hold his ground on defense; but he's already shown improvement on defense just from last season to this season.

As for a potential Luka trade, we didn't have a shot once we fell to #8. Atlanta wanted Trae and with MPJ's injury there was little chance of him falling that far. There's also a chance if we did somehow get an earlier pick, we might had taken Trae ourselves. Yes, the Cavs liked Luka but, but that doesn't mean that when push comes to shove that he would have been the actual pick.

They definitely had an offer from ATL to move up to 3 and they passed on it, thinking the price was too high, Cuban paid the price and is reaping the rewards. But that is irrelevant to the point of that argument that somehow a less than freakish athlete like Luka is somehow on the same tier as DG because of it. If any of you actually think DG is that high of an IQ player so be it, but even if he is it proves my point even further that at his size it doesnt work in the nba

a) My sources say Vardon got this wrong - that Atlanta was playing games with the Cavs to run up the price with the Mavs;

b) I'm not comparing Garland to Luka, you set the bar at whether a player with this size/athleticism can become an NBA starter or even an All-Star and there is no doubt it's a possibility. He still has to develop and grow if he wants to become more than a journeyman PG, but is it possible? Of course it is. The fact he's already demonstrating skills that some young guards cannot is a positive, not a negative.

So if DG is that level of player then why no domination? It aint the reality that I am seeing at all. Now that being said I absolutely was on board with the Sexton pick and will die on that hill because of 2 things: 1 he had elite speed and is virtually unstoppable in the open court. 2 nobody could ever get him to stop working even when the guy with the keys to the castle was screaming at him he had to lock it up.
I have no regrets about them taking Sexton and passing up the deal even if now some suggest it wasnt real.
I do have a problem with this kid who wowed a bunch of CLE staffers in a one on nobody workout with elite shooting displays and ball handling expertise and then backed it up with a rookie season as the worst starter in the NBA on paper except maybe Knox and then DG came into this season in better health with all kinds of promises that have yet to come to fruition. He cant do what he can do against NBA players. He shows flashes but he cannot do anything good enough consistently and almost all of that has to do with lack of speed and lack of athleticism because the opportunities he creates are good only if he had those attributes.
He can start playing the Trae foul seeking game and maybe make his mark in the league esp if he starts making open shots from the logo on a high clip since the league loves these types of underdogs for their marketing campaigns but nobody in the league offices is stupid enough to believe DG or anyone like him is a playoff caliber starter unless he is in the 50/40/90 club and doing it at a high usage rate,
I am pretty much done with the Sexland experiment , they sometimes work offensively if there is a 3rd floor stretcher out there but rarely work defensively even though both are trying/.

[JonFromVA]

They definitely had an offer from ATL to move up to 3 and they passed on it, thinking the price was too high, Cuban paid the price and is reaping the rewards. But that is irrelevant to the point of that argument that somehow a less than freakish athlete like Luka is somehow on the same tier as DG because of it. If any of you actually think DG is that high of an IQ player so be it, but even if he is it proves my point even further that at his size it doesnt work in the nba

a) My sources say Vardon got this wrong - that Atlanta was playing games with the Cavs to run up the price with the Mavs;

b) I'm not comparing Garland to Luka, you set the bar at whether a player with this size/athleticism can become an NBA starter or even an All-Star and there is no doubt it's a possibility. He still has to develop and grow if he wants to become more than a journeyman PG, but is it possible? Of course it is. The fact he's already demonstrating skills that some young guards cannot is a positive, not a negative.

So if DG is that level of player then why no domination? It aint the reality that I am seeing at all. Now that being said I absolutely was on board with the Sexton pick and will die on that hill because of 2 things: 1 he had elite speed and is virtually unstoppable in the open court. 2 nobody could ever get him to stop working even when the guy with the keys to the castle was screaming at him he had to lock it up.
I have no regrets about them taking Sexton and passing up the deal even if now some suggest it wasnt real.
I do have a problem with this kid who wowed a bunch of CLE staffers in a one on nobody workout with elite shooting displays and ball handling expertise and then backed it up with a rookie season as the worst starter in the NBA on paper except maybe Knox and then DG came into this season in better health with all kinds of promises that have yet to come to fruition. He cant do what he can do against NBA players. He shows flashes but he cannot do anything good enough consistently and almost all of that has to do with lack of speed and lack of athleticism because the opportunities he creates are good only if he had those attributes.
He can start playing the Trae foul seeking game and maybe make his mark in the league esp if he starts making open shots from the logo on a high clip since the league loves these types of underdogs for their marketing campaigns but nobody in the league offices is stupid enough to believe DG or anyone like him is a playoff caliber starter unless he is in the 50/40/90 club and doing it at a high usage rate,
I am pretty much done with the Sexland experiment , they sometimes work offensively if there is a 3rd floor stretcher out there but rarely work defensively even though both are trying/.

If Darius was playing more unconstrained, you'd see more of the "flashes" you'd like to see, but mostly you'd see an even bigger train wreck on the floor because by hook or crook his shot and his confidence in it are not where they need to be.

Why?

Because like most NBA players he hasn't figured everything out at 21.

[Stillwater]

a) My sources say Vardon got this wrong - that Atlanta was playing games with the Cavs to run up the price with the Mavs;

b) I'm not comparing Garland to Luka, you set the bar at whether a player with this size/athleticism can become an NBA starter or even an All-Star and there is no doubt it's a possibility. He still has to develop and grow if he wants to become more than a journeyman PG, but is it possible? Of course it is. The fact he's already demonstrating skills that some young guards cannot is a positive, not a negative.

So if DG is that level of player then why no domination? It aint the reality that I am seeing at all. Now that being said I absolutely was on board with the Sexton pick and will die on that hill because of 2 things: 1 he had elite speed and is virtually unstoppable in the open court. 2 nobody could ever get him to stop working even when the guy with the keys to the castle was screaming at him he had to lock it up.
I have no regrets about them taking Sexton and passing up the deal even if now some suggest it wasnt real.
I do have a problem with this kid who wowed a bunch of CLE staffers in a one on nobody workout with elite shooting displays and ball handling expertise and then backed it up with a rookie season as the worst starter in the NBA on paper except maybe Knox and then DG came into this season in better health with all kinds of promises that have yet to come to fruition. He cant do what he can do against NBA players. He shows flashes but he cannot do anything good enough consistently and almost all of that has to do with lack of speed and lack of athleticism because the opportunities he creates are good only if he had those attributes.
He can start playing the Trae foul seeking game and maybe make his mark in the league esp if he starts making open shots from the logo on a high clip since the league loves these types of underdogs for their marketing campaigns but nobody in the league offices is stupid enough to believe DG or anyone like him is a playoff caliber starter unless he is in the 50/40/90 club and doing it at a high usage rate,
I am pretty much done with the Sexland experiment , they sometimes work offensively if there is a 3rd floor stretcher out there but rarely work defensively even though both are trying/.

If Darius was playing more unconstrained, you'd see more of the "flashes" you'd like to see, but mostly you'd see an even bigger train wreck on the floor because by hook or crook his shot and his confidence in it are not where they need to be.

Why?

Because like most NBA players he hasn't figured everything out at 21.

For a prospect whos selling point was being as NBA ready as humanly possible as a scorer and playmaker and when he had the one on noone workout indicated he was farther along in his injury recovery and certainly closer than 2 years away from any significant impact of any kind...one would only come to the conclusion his workout was not a good indicator of his ability to dominate in the NBA just in a one on noone gym.
I am trying to be objective although it may not ever seem like it, but the kid was anything but NBA ready same as Sexton and I am not patient enough to see if DG's shooting improves enough to cover for his lack of athleticism whereas Sexton has proved a thousand times over to be a better scorer than people thought based on college film and his ability to transfer the skill despite some mental hiccups trying to learn on the fly he has no physical limitations and came into camp jacked up.
I give them the rest of the season and would not be the least bit surprised if DG is traded on draft day or has stepped up his game so much in the 2nd half that I am eating crow and the rest of you are dancing on my corpse

[JonFromVA]

So if DG is that level of player then why no domination? It aint the reality that I am seeing at all. Now that being said I absolutely was on board with the Sexton pick and will die on that hill because of 2 things: 1 he had elite speed and is virtually unstoppable in the open court. 2 nobody could ever get him to stop working even when the guy with the keys to the castle was screaming at him he had to lock it up.
I have no regrets about them taking Sexton and passing up the deal even if now some suggest it wasnt real.
I do have a problem with this kid who wowed a bunch of CLE staffers in a one on nobody workout with elite shooting displays and ball handling expertise and then backed it up with a rookie season as the worst starter in the NBA on paper except maybe Knox and then DG came into this season in better health with all kinds of promises that have yet to come to fruition. He cant do what he can do against NBA players. He shows flashes but he cannot do anything good enough consistently and almost all of that has to do with lack of speed and lack of athleticism because the opportunities he creates are good only if he had those attributes.
He can start playing the Trae foul seeking game and maybe make his mark in the league esp if he starts making open shots from the logo on a high clip since the league loves these types of underdogs for their marketing campaigns but nobody in the league offices is stupid enough to believe DG or anyone like him is a playoff caliber starter unless he is in the 50/40/90 club and doing it at a high usage rate,
I am pretty much done with the Sexland experiment , they sometimes work offensively if there is a 3rd floor stretcher out there but rarely work defensively even though both are trying/.

If Darius was playing more unconstrained, you'd see more of the "flashes" you'd like to see, but mostly you'd see an even bigger train wreck on the floor because by hook or crook his shot and his confidence in it are not where they need to be.

Why?

Because like most NBA players he hasn't figured everything out at 21.

For a prospect whos selling point was being as NBA ready as humanly possible as a scorer and playmaker and when he had the one on noone workout indicated he was farther along in his injury recovery and certainly closer than 2 years away from any significant impact of any kind...one would only come to the conclusion his workout was not a good indicator of his ability to dominate in the NBA just in a one on noone gym.
I am trying to be objective although it may not ever seem like it, but the kid was anything but NBA ready same as Sexton and I am not patient enough to see if DG's shooting improves enough to cover for his lack of athleticism whereas Sexton has proved a thousand times over to be a better scorer than people thought based on college film and his ability to transfer the skill despite some mental hiccups trying to learn on the fly he has no physical limitations and came into camp jacked up.
I give them the rest of the season and would not be the least bit surprised if DG is traded on draft day or has stepped up his game so much in the 2nd half that I am eating crow and the rest of you are dancing on my corpse

I can't begin to imagine how you got the idea that after playing 5 games in the NCAA and coming off an injury that Garland was NBA ready. The things the Cavs liked about Darius from high-school, AAU, U-19, Nike, Vandy, and that workout are all still the same things they like.

His handle, his vision, his passing, his shooting, and his IQ are all still very promising if still evolving.

Sexton has certainly improve as well, and I'm not expecting that to stop for him either.

But in both cases, it's going to take time to see where they end up and how useful they will ultimately be to a team that wants to win games.

[Stillwater]

If Darius was playing more unconstrained, you'd see more of the "flashes" you'd like to see, but mostly you'd see an even bigger train wreck on the floor because by hook or crook his shot and his confidence in it are not where they need to be.

Why?

Because like most NBA players he hasn't figured everything out at 21.

For a prospect whos selling point was being as NBA ready as humanly possible as a scorer and playmaker and when he had the one on noone workout indicated he was farther along in his injury recovery and certainly closer than 2 years away from any significant impact of any kind...one would only come to the conclusion his workout was not a good indicator of his ability to dominate in the NBA just in a one on noone gym.
I am trying to be objective although it may not ever seem like it, but the kid was anything but NBA ready same as Sexton and I am not patient enough to see if DG's shooting improves enough to cover for his lack of athleticism whereas Sexton has proved a thousand times over to be a better scorer than people thought based on college film and his ability to transfer the skill despite some mental hiccups trying to learn on the fly he has no physical limitations and came into camp jacked up.
I give them the rest of the season and would not be the least bit surprised if DG is traded on draft day or has stepped up his game so much in the 2nd half that I am eating crow and the rest of you are dancing on my corpse

I can't begin to imagine how you got the idea that after playing 5 games in the NCAA and coming off an injury that Garland was NBA ready. The things the Cavs liked about Darius from high-school, AAU, U-19, Nike, Vandy, and that workout are all still the same things they like.

His handle, his vision, his passing, his shooting, and his IQ are all still very promising if still evolving.

Sexton has certainly improve as well, and I'm not expecting that to stop for him either.

But in both cases, it's going to take time to see where they end up and how useful they will ultimately be to a team that wants to win games.

Oh so now he wasnt drafted to replace Sexton ? If he was always a long term play pick then he certainly was not picked to replace Sexton and was by all accounts the orgs evaluation of the BPA and they literally had no interest in winning for several seasons despite having paid KLove a monster contract etc.
I think they definitely thought they were getting a NBA caliber starting pg and planned to move Sexton to the 6th man until the awoke a beast in Sexton and DG layed a big fat rookie terd.
Now what is it they are hoping for? some better chemistry and singing kumbaya around the dumpster fire?
I dont buy it. DG is obviously not the guy they thought and neither is Sexton when they drafted DG.They should accept they fd up and move on. It's time to get something for DG but I fully expect them to keep riding this train until he isnt worth peewee squats

[JonFromVA]

For a prospect whos selling point was being as NBA ready as humanly possible as a scorer and playmaker and when he had the one on noone workout indicated he was farther along in his injury recovery and certainly closer than 2 years away from any significant impact of any kind...one would only come to the conclusion his workout was not a good indicator of his ability to dominate in the NBA just in a one on noone gym.
I am trying to be objective although it may not ever seem like it, but the kid was anything but NBA ready same as Sexton and I am not patient enough to see if DG's shooting improves enough to cover for his lack of athleticism whereas Sexton has proved a thousand times over to be a better scorer than people thought based on college film and his ability to transfer the skill despite some mental hiccups trying to learn on the fly he has no physical limitations and came into camp jacked up.
I give them the rest of the season and would not be the least bit surprised if DG is traded on draft day or has stepped up his game so much in the 2nd half that I am eating crow and the rest of you are dancing on my corpse

I can't begin to imagine how you got the idea that after playing 5 games in the NCAA and coming off an injury that Garland was NBA ready. The things the Cavs liked about Darius from high-school, AAU, U-19, Nike, Vandy, and that workout are all still the same things they like.

His handle, his vision, his passing, his shooting, and his IQ are all still very promising if still evolving.

Sexton has certainly improve as well, and I'm not expecting that to stop for him either.

But in both cases, it's going to take time to see where they end up and how useful they will ultimately be to a team that wants to win games.

Oh so now he wasnt drafted to replace Sexton ? If he was always a long term play pick then he certainly was not picked to replace Sexton and was by all accounts the orgs evaluation of the BPA and they literally had no interest in winning for several seasons despite having paid KLove a monster contract etc.
I think they definitely thought they were getting a NBA caliber starting pg and planned to move Sexton to the 6th man until the awoke a beast in Sexton and DG layed a big fat rookie terd.
Now what is it they are hoping for? some better chemistry and singing kumbaya around the dumpster fire?
I dont buy it. DG is obviously not the guy they thought and neither is Sexton when they drafted DG.They should accept they fd up and move on. It's time to get something for DG but I fully expect them to keep riding this train until he isnt worth peewee squats

You have an odd way of over-complicating things.

Oh, Darius stepped right in and replaced Collin as the team's starting PG and easily topped Collin's rookie assist total even while playing with him - but that wasn't exactly a high-bar. The Cavs preference is and was that both players are able to play to their strengths as they evolve in to whatever they will become - and hopefully that's accelerated by throwing them a ton of minutes.