2022-23 Regular Season

[JonFromVA]

Bottom line: what Altman and JBB may be selling isn't necessarily what these players are buying. If they don't see a desirable role and an acceptable amount of play-time, they're going to look elsewhere or try to get themselves moved.

Publicly they'll say they just want to help the team win, but when they actually have a choice in the matter, that's where the rubber meets the road.

Even in our search for a backup C or a backup PG, they're going to look at how many players they'll be competing against for minutes and not necessarily assume they will beat any let alone all of them out.

Honestly, I think I prefer a scenario where Sexton says I won't have a big enough role here right up front, rather than saying all the right things, getting paid, and then as soon as he's trade eligible, starts complaining about his role.

I imagine the Cavs would be fine with that as long as both sides keep it professional and work to find a deal that gets the Cavs the compensation they want and Collin the role he wants.

Of course these things don't always go smoothly, but at least it benefits another Klutch client if the Cavs don't lose Collin for nothing.

I really do believe Plan A for both Sexton and LeVert is to optimize their value to the team whether that's on the floor or what they can bring back in trade. Even if for whatever reason both decide they'd rather move on, letting them walk for nothing is a last resort unless we have a plan in place to use the cap space.

Koby has managed to put out a lot of fires over the past year. The next level is to find a way to prevent them in the first place by getting our players and their agents all on the same page with the organization.

[JonFromVA]

Both Sexton and LeVert took the time to posture publically about wanting to be in Cleveland long-term at the end of the season last year, which indicates to me that they both believe that there's a competition for the starting SG spot in both of their minds. There's no way Sexton acknowledges he won't be the starter "up front" unless the Cavs tell him that they've made that decision already.

If we're going to retain Collin while giving LeVert the starting job before training camp starts, I think we'd have to extend LeVert this offseason as well at a bigger number than Sexton signs for.

We don't have to do any of those things. We can extend LeVert at any time, or not at all. Again, the Cavs have options here, and it would be foolish to preemptively remove those options for players who, quite frankly, haven't demonstrated they're ideal starters on our current roster. GTJ could fail to come to terms with the Raptors on an extension. Okoro could have a big leap this year (not betting on that one). We could draft a guard who develops into the better starter. Jaylen Brown could decide to leave Boston in the summer of 2024.

We're going to create a chemistry issue if we pay Sexton, don't pay LeVert, but still give LeVert the starting job. (Unless the market for Sexton is really low.)

Well, if we don't sign Caris, he'll still be playing for his next contract and/or a trade at the deadline.

It would be really cool to see the Cavs in a position where they can make a trade from a position of depth & strength, basically decide which of Sexton or LeVert to keep based on what they're doing for us, and what we can get back in trade.

Just need Koby and JBB to do their job and somehow make Andre Drummond the last Cavalier we ever have to send home because he's sabotaging the team or waive because he's killed whatever value he might have had and no other team wants him.

[jbk1234]

Both Sexton and LeVert took the time to posture publically about wanting to be in Cleveland long-term at the end of the season last year, which indicates to me that they both believe that there's a competition for the starting SG spot in both of their minds. There's no way Sexton acknowledges he won't be the starter "up front" unless the Cavs tell him that they've made that decision already.

If we're going to retain Collin while giving LeVert the starting job before training camp starts, I think we'd have to extend LeVert this offseason as well at a bigger number than Sexton signs for.

We don't have to do any of those things. We can extend LeVert at any time, or not at all. Again, the Cavs have options here, and it would be foolish to preemptively remove those options for players who, quite frankly, haven't demonstrated they're ideal starters on our current roster. GTJ could fail to come to terms with the Raptors on an extension. Okoro could have a big leap this year (not betting on that one). We could draft a guard who develops into the better starter. Jaylen Brown could decide to leave Boston in the summer of 2024.

We're going to create a chemistry issue if we pay Sexton, don't pay LeVert, but still give LeVert the starting job. (Unless the market for Sexton is really low.)

I just don't think either player has demonstrated that they're critical enough to the Cavs success that the organization should get wrapped around the axle worrying about those issues. They both have serious flaws in their games, and if they want to follow the examples of KPJ and Drummond, then the Cavs will be no worse off without them.

[JujitsuFlip]

Depending on Sexton's year 1 salary, I doubt the Cavs hard cap themselves by using the full MLE.

How would the Cavs hard cap themselves? They won't be anywhere near the apron.

I'm just saying I doubt the Cavs take away their cap/roster flexibility for OPJ on the full MLE.

They're at $125 million in salary assuming Wade and Stevens are back. #14 brings that to $128 million and OPJ or anyone else on the full MLE brings that to $138 million.

If Sexton just signed his QO, that brings it to $145 million. If he actually signs an extension, his year 1 salary can't be more than $16 million and that would bump the Cavs right up against the $155,196,200 hard cap for 14 players.

[toooskies]

Depending on Sexton's year 1 salary, I doubt the Cavs hard cap themselves by using the full MLE.

How would the Cavs hard cap themselves? They won't be anywhere near the apron.

I'm just saying I doubt the Cavs take away their cap/roster flexibility for OPJ on the full MLE.

They're at $125 million in salary assuming Wade and Stevens are back. #14 brings that to $128 million and OPJ or anyone else on the full MLE brings that to $138 million.

If Sexton just signed his QO, that brings it to $145 million. If he actually signs an extension, his year 1 salary can't be more than $16 million and that would bump the Cavs right up against the $155,196,200 hard cap for 14 players.

Spotrac has us at $25m under the tax with Wade and Stevens back. That gives Sexton roughly $21m to work with if we don't see another bump in the cap number, which there often is after the season ends.

But the option to turn Windler's salary into space should be there too. Any team with space could take him plus $3m in cash to give us some wiggle room. Probably could do the same with Osman at the deadline.

[jbk1234]

Basketball reference is the better tool. It doesn't assume cap holds, so you have to put them in yourself. But when you're working with guys like Rondo and Davis who likely won't be back, I find it more useful.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/CLE.html

Sexton and two rookies puts us at 14 roster spots. The last spot can be occupied by a guy on a two-way deal. But as a matter of sequence, the Cavs are going to have to sign another guy to the full MLE before Sexton even signs an offer sheet, or they won't have it. They'll be reduced to the tax MLE.

[toooskies]

Basketball reference is the better tool. It doesn't assume cap holds, so you have to put them in yourself. But when you're working with guys like Rondo and Davis who likely won't be back, I find it more useful.

https://www.basketball-reference.com/contracts/CLE.html

Sexton and two rookies puts us at 14 roster spots. The last spot can be occupied by a guy on a two-way deal. But as a matter of sequence, the Cavs are going to have to sign another guy to the full MLE before Sexton even signs an offer sheet, or they won't have it. They'll be reduced to the tax MLE.

I see, my problem was listening to Fedor on a podcast saying we had $21m reasonably possible for Sexton and an MLE contract, but the context of that number was ambiguous (or he just did his math wrong). I agree with JujitsuFlip's calculations now, but maintain that we've got some easy options to wiggle lower with the variety of expiring contracts we've got. Osman or Windler + cash should get us room to use as much of the MLE as we want. The final cap number is also liable to change in the next two weeks, and it usually gets revised up. (Very few short playoff series, which means more league revenue, and Golden State is a great TV market.)

The problem with using Basketball Reference is that it's not always accurate for cap calculations-- it's payroll, not cap hit. For instance, while Rondo was paid $2.7m last year, his cap number was only that of a vet minimum contract which was ~$1.7m. We don't have any veteran minimum salaries yet for 2022, but it looks like BBR's numbers are different from the rest of the internet on Cedi's contract for whatever reason.

Signing the MLE hard-caps us whether we use it before or after signing Sexton. In fact, we're in more trouble if we sign the full MLE before signing Sexton, I think we'd have to renounce him to officially do that with no other moves because his cap hold is $19m or so.

[JujitsuFlip]

I just don't see an issue with giving a guy $6 million year 1 salary instead of a $10 million year 1 salary and be able to exceed the tax apron (even if they don't finish there).

#14 will have a cap hold as well as Sexton has a $19 million cap hold. If the Cavs for whatever reason acquire any other additional first rounders they will have a cap hold as well.

Having cap and roster flexibility is very valuable if Sexton gets S&T somewhere (either salary back or being able to use the TPE). If LeVert needs to be traded, taking back more salary could be an option.

I just fail to see the appeal in giving OPJ or anyone a $4 million difference in year 1 salary as make or break.

[jbk1234]

I just don't see an issue with giving a guy $6 million year 1 salary instead of a $10 million year 1 salary and be able to exceed the tax apron (even if they don't finish there).

#14 will have a cap hold as well as Sexton has a $19 million cap hold. If the Cavs for whatever reason acquire any other additional first rounders they will have a cap hold as well.

Having cap and roster flexibility is very valuable if Sexton gets S&T somewhere (either salary back or being able to use the TPE). If LeVert needs to be traded, taking back more salary could be an option.

I just fail to see the appeal in giving OPJ or anyone a $4 million difference in year 1 salary as make or break.

The issue might be the player you want is wearing another team's uniform next season because that team offered the full MLE.

[JujitsuFlip]

I just don't see an issue with giving a guy $6 million year 1 salary instead of a $10 million year 1 salary and be able to exceed the tax apron (even if they don't finish there).

#14 will have a cap hold as well as Sexton has a $19 million cap hold. If the Cavs for whatever reason acquire any other additional first rounders they will have a cap hold as well.

Having cap and roster flexibility is very valuable if Sexton gets S&T somewhere (either salary back or being able to use the TPE). If LeVert needs to be traded, taking back more salary could be an option.

I just fail to see the appeal in giving OPJ or anyone a $4 million difference in year 1 salary as make or break.

The issue might be the player you want is wearing another team's uniform next season because that team offered the full MLE.

Then so be it. I don't think the Cavs in the hypothetical (OPJ) or in the rumoured (Wright, Jones, Onuaku) are going to be that torn up about missing out on a guy wanting a few more million than what they can offer, to avoid hard capping themselves for the entire 2022-23 season.

[toooskies]

It'll be a nice test of the "Cleveland is a destination because of their promising young players" theory.

[Harper4Ferry?]

Someone speculated Cedi and 14 for monte Morris/21/30 and I would do that if offered. Morris slides in great as a 21-28 minute player to spell/occasionally play along side Garland.

[JujitsuFlip]

Someone speculated Cedi and 14 for monte Morris/21/30 and I would do that if offered. Morris slides in great as a 21-28 minute player to spell/occasionally play along side Garland.

Why would the Nuggets want Cedi?

Cavs don't really have room on the roster to add 3 players, unless they're trading one or both those firsts in that scenario for future picks.

I like Morris' age, contract, and play style, they all seem to fit the Cavs just not sure how realistic it is, I'd have to see the original source.

[toooskies]

Someone speculated Cedi and 14 for monte Morris/21/30 and I would do that if offered. Morris slides in great as a 21-28 minute player to spell/occasionally play along side Garland.

Why would the Nuggets want Cedi?

Cavs don't really have room on the roster to add 3 players, unless they're trading one or both those firsts in that scenario for future picks.

I like Morris' age, contract, and play style, they all seem to fit the Cavs just not sure how realistic it is, I'd have to see the original source.

I was the source, somewhere in the "make offers for Monte Morris" thread.

Morris would eliminate the need to search for a backup PG on the MLE. We'd probably send out #39 in this deal as well, leaving our roster spots more or less the same as projected now with the MLE available for a real backup C or a veteran wing if Sexton departs.

Garland/Morris/#30
Sexton?/LeVert/Okoro
Markkanen/Stevens/Windler/#21
Mobley/Love/Wade
Allen/#58 or MLE

I don't think Denver necessarily wants Cedi particularly, he's just an expiring neutral salary who adds depth. He might get rerouted to some other team for Denver to cut salary. They'd want the higher pick while clearing out Morris from blocking Hyland's minutes when Murray is back. Cleveland Cleveland gets one of the guys they scouted at #21 and the pick of who they were thinking about at #39 with the #30.

[jbk1234]

Someone speculated Cedi and 14 for monte Morris/21/30 and I would do that if offered. Morris slides in great as a 21-28 minute player to spell/occasionally play along side Garland.

Why would the Nuggets want Cedi?

Cavs don't really have room on the roster to add 3 players, unless they're trading one or both those firsts in that scenario for future picks.

I like Morris' age, contract, and play style, they all seem to fit the Cavs just not sure how realistic it is, I'd have to see the original source.

I was the source, somewhere in the "make offers for Monte Morris" thread.

Morris would eliminate the need to search for a backup PG on the MLE. We'd probably send out #39 in this deal as well, leaving our roster spots more or less the same as projected now with the MLE available for a real backup C or a veteran wing if Sexton departs.

Garland/Morris/#30
Sexton?/LeVert/Okoro
Markkanen/Stevens/Windler/#21
Mobley/Love/Wade
Allen/#58 or MLE

I don't think Denver necessarily wants Cedi particularly, he's just an expiring neutral salary who adds depth. He might get rerouted to some other team for Denver to cut salary. They'd want the higher pick while clearing out Morris from blocking Hyland's minutes when Murray is back. Cleveland Cleveland gets one of the guys they scouted at #21 and the pick of who they were thinking about at #39 with the #30.

Yeah, unless the Cavs in love with whoever is there at No. 14, they should make that trade if offered.

[JujitsuFlip]

Someone speculated Cedi and 14 for monte Morris/21/30 and I would do that if offered. Morris slides in great as a 21-28 minute player to spell/occasionally play along side Garland.

Why would the Nuggets want Cedi?

Cavs don't really have room on the roster to add 3 players, unless they're trading one or both those firsts in that scenario for future picks.

I like Morris' age, contract, and play style, they all seem to fit the Cavs just not sure how realistic it is, I'd have to see the original source.

I was the source, somewhere in the "make offers for Monte Morris" thread.

Morris would eliminate the need to search for a backup PG on the MLE. We'd probably send out #39 in this deal as well, leaving our roster spots more or less the same as projected now with the MLE available for a real backup C or a veteran wing if Sexton departs.

Garland/Morris/#30
Sexton?/LeVert/Okoro
Markkanen/Stevens/Windler/#21
Mobley/Love/Wade
Allen/#58 or MLE

I don't think Denver necessarily wants Cedi particularly, he's just an expiring neutral salary who adds depth. He might get rerouted to some other team for Denver to cut salary. They'd want the higher pick while clearing out Morris from blocking Hyland's minutes when Murray is back. Cleveland Cleveland gets one of the guys they scouted at #21 and the pick of who they were thinking about at #39 with the #30.

If they offer it, I'm down, just not sure they would give all that up for #14.

[toooskies]

Why would the Nuggets want Cedi?

Cavs don't really have room on the roster to add 3 players, unless they're trading one or both those firsts in that scenario for future picks.

I like Morris' age, contract, and play style, they all seem to fit the Cavs just not sure how realistic it is, I'd have to see the original source.

I was the source, somewhere in the "make offers for Monte Morris" thread.

Morris would eliminate the need to search for a backup PG on the MLE. We'd probably send out #39 in this deal as well, leaving our roster spots more or less the same as projected now with the MLE available for a real backup C or a veteran wing if Sexton departs.

Garland/Morris/#30
Sexton?/LeVert/Okoro
Markkanen/Stevens/Windler/#21
Mobley/Love/Wade
Allen/#58 or MLE

I don't think Denver necessarily wants Cedi particularly, he's just an expiring neutral salary who adds depth. He might get rerouted to some other team for Denver to cut salary. They'd want the higher pick while clearing out Morris from blocking Hyland's minutes when Murray is back. Cleveland Cleveland gets one of the guys they scouted at #21 and the pick of who they were thinking about at #39 with the #30.

If they offer it, I'm down, just not sure they would give all that up for #14.

Removing #30 and #39 shifts value back to Denver. Monte + 21 for Cedi + 14?

[JujitsuFlip]

Well, Ochai Agbaji is the pick, long as there isn't a trade.

[gflem]

Well, Ochai Agbaji is the pick, long as there isn't a trade.

Yeah, I am good with that pick. I was actually hoping for Williams but more for upside than what he accomplished as compared to Agbaji. Hopefully Agbaji can slot into the SF position, otherwise we have a bit of a logjam at SG for the time being.

[gflem]

Detroit killing it. That kinda sucks for us, but happy for their fans. F the process, Pistons in turbo rebuild mode.