Isaac Okoro

[jasonxxx102]

Mmmm, no he's not lol

I know the couple random sites you use probably say that but you've been of this opinion for awhile so there's no way to really discuss it.

The hyperbole is unnecessary, because Okoro is a plus defender overall and is one of the most complete defenders on the team. However, when it comes to perimeter defense, that is not his strong suit, statistically.

But I'll give the guy his shine for hitting his 3s and improving on his overall defensive game.

Well at least y’all have come up to finally acknowledging him being a plus defender, you’re almost there.

Statistically he absolutely is one of the leagues best perimeter defenders. That’s just a fact. the stats say it, the eye test says it. Sooner rather than later y’all won’t be able to deny it anymore.

I’ve provided the stats and the film and you refuse to see it, which is what it is.

He hasn’t improved his defensive game either, that’s like the one thing that has been consistently great all season. He just barely played enough for it to shine. I can pull double digit clips from any game this season if you’d like

No stats from a reputable site say it. I cannot recall the 2 sites you linked truncated info from last time but weren't they just pay walled gobbledygook?

But no Okoro is not one of the leagues best perimeter defenders. Which is okay, he's 22 years old and undersized for his position.

Not reputable based on what? Dunksandthrees is free btw (he’s 91st percentile in their model) but I suppose you have a better model?

84th percentile in D-LeBron, 93rd percentile in DBPM, 94th in rim DFG% saved, 94th in on ball perimeter defense, 91st in ball screen navigation, spends 30% of his time defending the highest usage players 98th, 97th in matchup difficulty, and 91st in defensive versatility.

But please share your ultra advanced model that is more reputable than all of these stats

[JujitsuFlip]

Well at least y’all have come up to finally acknowledging him being a plus defender, you’re almost there.

Statistically he absolutely is one of the leagues best perimeter defenders. That’s just a fact. the stats say it, the eye test says it. Sooner rather than later y’all won’t be able to deny it anymore.

I’ve provided the stats and the film and you refuse to see it, which is what it is.

He hasn’t improved his defensive game either, that’s like the one thing that has been consistently great all season. He just barely played enough for it to shine. I can pull double digit clips from any game this season if you’d like

No stats from a reputable site say it. I cannot recall the 2 sites you linked truncated info from last time but weren't they just pay walled gobbledygook?

But no Okoro is not one of the leagues best perimeter defenders. Which is okay, he's 22 years old and undersized for his position.

Not reputable based on what? Dunksandthrees is free btw (he’s 91st percentile in their model) but I suppose you have a better model?

84th percentile in D-LeBron, 93rd percentile in DBPM, 94th in rim DFG% saved, 94th in on ball perimeter defense, 91st in ball screen navigation, spends 30% of his time defending the highest usage players 98th, 97th in matchup difficulty, and 91st in defensive versatility.

But please share your ultra advanced model that is more reputable than all of these stats

The bold, they come from what source? Please share.

[ijspeelman]

Well at least y’all have come up to finally acknowledging him being a plus defender, you’re almost there.

Statistically he absolutely is one of the leagues best perimeter defenders. That’s just a fact. the stats say it, the eye test says it. Sooner rather than later y’all won’t be able to deny it anymore.

I’ve provided the stats and the film and you refuse to see it, which is what it is.

He hasn’t improved his defensive game either, that’s like the one thing that has been consistently great all season. He just barely played enough for it to shine. I can pull double digit clips from any game this season if you’d like

No stats from a reputable site say it. I cannot recall the 2 sites you linked truncated info from last time but weren't they just pay walled gobbledygook?

But no Okoro is not one of the leagues best perimeter defenders. Which is okay, he's 22 years old and undersized for his position.

Not reputable based on what? Dunksandthrees is free btw (he’s 91st percentile in their model) but I suppose you have a better model?

84th percentile in D-LeBron, 93rd percentile in DBPM, 94th in rim DFG% saved, 94th in on ball perimeter defense, 91st in ball screen navigation, spends 30% of his time defending the highest usage players 98th, 97th in matchup difficulty, and 91st in defensive versatility.

But please share your ultra advanced model that is more reputable than all of these stats

Not really throwing my opinion out on Okoro's defense here, but I would take any advanced defense metric with a grain of salt. There is an insane amount of noise and they are normally very flawed.

I do think they can give a general idea of where a player tiers out, but I think the error is probably very high.

[jasonxxx102]

No stats from a reputable site say it. I cannot recall the 2 sites you linked truncated info from last time but weren't they just pay walled gobbledygook?

But no Okoro is not one of the leagues best perimeter defenders. Which is okay, he's 22 years old and undersized for his position.

Not reputable based on what? Dunksandthrees is free btw (he’s 91st percentile in their model) but I suppose you have a better model?

84th percentile in D-LeBron, 93rd percentile in DBPM, 94th in rim DFG% saved, 94th in on ball perimeter defense, 91st in ball screen navigation, spends 30% of his time defending the highest usage players 98th, 97th in matchup difficulty, and 91st in defensive versatility.

But please share your ultra advanced model that is more reputable than all of these stats

Not really throwing my opinion out on Okoro's defense here, but I would take any advanced defense metric with a grain of salt. There is an insane amount of noise and they are normally very flawed.

I do think they can give a general idea of where a player tiers out, but I think the error is probably very high.

I 100% agree on advanced stats. They're used far too often to say x player is better than x other players without any context or understanding.

I've been talking about Okoro being an elite defender for a long time, as JujitsuFlip alluded to in an earlier post. The advanced stats are just finally starting to show what I've been saying. The problem is that Okoro is just not memorable so fans don't remember all the boring individual defense they only remember when he got torched because it elicited an emotional response.

If you don't believe, go rewatch some games but ONLY watch Okoro, just tune out the rest of the game and focus on his on-ball defense. If you do that and still don't believe, I respectfully disagree. The issue is that you can't just disregard advanced stats

If people are really that upset with the word elite? Fine, I'll say great or find some other synonym. He's statistically well above average in just about every defensive measure

[jasonxxx102]

No stats from a reputable site say it. I cannot recall the 2 sites you linked truncated info from last time but weren't they just pay walled gobbledygook?

But no Okoro is not one of the leagues best perimeter defenders. Which is okay, he's 22 years old and undersized for his position.

Not reputable based on what? Dunksandthrees is free btw (he’s 91st percentile in their model) but I suppose you have a better model?

84th percentile in D-LeBron, 93rd percentile in DBPM, 94th in rim DFG% saved, 94th in on ball perimeter defense, 91st in ball screen navigation, spends 30% of his time defending the highest usage players 98th, 97th in matchup difficulty, and 91st in defensive versatility.

But please share your ultra advanced model that is more reputable than all of these stats

The bold, they come from what source? Please share.

The same place you poo poo'd before. bball index.

[toooskies]

He’s like 102nd in defensive win shares… and that 47.3% defensive FG% on 3pt shots might be why it seems like some teams just outperform vs Cavs…


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Bball-index's D-LEBRON stat has Okoro around the 15th highest point of attack defender. Which makes him roughly thee best POA defender if put on half the teams in the league. Not elite, but certainly very good.

I would not use defensive win shares unless you like to penalize Okoro for leaking out on the break, which hurts his rebounding numbers but makes the offense better.

1) I do penalize him for leaking out on the break because I don’t see the offensive translation. What I do see is the offensive rebounding of opponents contributed to by one of the worst rebounding SF in the league.

2) Okoro’s D-Lebron is buoyed by team defense. It’s a metric that favors bigs and players who play with good bigs. Being 4th on the Cavs and the defensive splits he has when he plays with them vs playing in front of the Kevin Love experience.

It’s the fun that comes with relying on a metric that rates Jaylen Brown and Cedi Osman as functionally the same on defense…

3) I know he’s a good defender. This is not a knock on him. Just challenging the use of the stat to say he’s elite.

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1) We're 4th in the league in DRB%, and Okoro has improved his DRB% from 7.1% to 10.8%. Also surprised you don't notice the break points as Isaac's been good for a bucket or two that way per game.

2) I don't agree with you, otherwise Caruso wouldn't be leading POA defenders despite playing with mediocre defensive bigs. Also doesn't explain why Jrue Holiday is below Okoro, or why Tyrese Maxey is near the bottom of the list despite playing with Embiid. The numbers match up with my eye test.

3) I'd probably agree that he's good and not elite, just challenging the use of Defensive Win Shares. It's based on DRtg, which gives Kevin Love more credit as a defender than any member of the Cavs' backcourt. Same weakness that you attribute to D-LEBRON.

[JonFromVA]

Not reputable based on what? Dunksandthrees is free btw (he’s 91st percentile in their model) but I suppose you have a better model?

84th percentile in D-LeBron, 93rd percentile in DBPM, 94th in rim DFG% saved, 94th in on ball perimeter defense, 91st in ball screen navigation, spends 30% of his time defending the highest usage players 98th, 97th in matchup difficulty, and 91st in defensive versatility.

But please share your ultra advanced model that is more reputable than all of these stats

Not really throwing my opinion out on Okoro's defense here, but I would take any advanced defense metric with a grain of salt. There is an insane amount of noise and they are normally very flawed.

I do think they can give a general idea of where a player tiers out, but I think the error is probably very high.

I 100% agree on advanced stats. They're used far too often to say x player is better than x other players without any context or understanding.

I've been talking about Okoro being an elite defender for a long time, as JujitsuFlip alluded to in an earlier post. The advanced stats are just finally starting to show what I've been saying. The problem is that Okoro is just not memorable so fans don't remember all the boring individual defense they only remember when he got torched because it elicited an emotional response.

If you don't believe, go rewatch some games but ONLY watch Okoro, just tune out the rest of the game and focus on his on-ball defense. If you do that and still don't believe, I respectfully disagree. The issue is that you can't just disregard advanced stats

If people are really that upset with the word elite? Fine, I'll say great or find some other synonym. He's statistically well above average in just about every defensive measure

Nah, unless your opinion has changed keep calling him elite and supporting it whenever and with whatever you find. Just take in to account some will be slow to the bandwagon, may never hop on it, or simply never see the stats the same way you do.

The point here is not to try to brow beat each other in to different views. It's not only ok to disagree - it fuels the board when we disagree.

As a fan of +/- and on/off stats dating back to the early 2000's it literally took years for some people to accept that Drew Gooden was a negative player on the floor. They saw his points, they saw his rebounds, they saw his skill-set and couldn't imagine it or that a far less skilled offensive player like Andy Varejao was far more valuable. The +/- data I'd share and link to was just "noise" until it repeated lineup after lineup and year after year.

[jasonxxx102]

Not really throwing my opinion out on Okoro's defense here, but I would take any advanced defense metric with a grain of salt. There is an insane amount of noise and they are normally very flawed.

I do think they can give a general idea of where a player tiers out, but I think the error is probably very high.

I 100% agree on advanced stats. They're used far too often to say x player is better than x other players without any context or understanding.

I've been talking about Okoro being an elite defender for a long time, as JujitsuFlip alluded to in an earlier post. The advanced stats are just finally starting to show what I've been saying. The problem is that Okoro is just not memorable so fans don't remember all the boring individual defense they only remember when he got torched because it elicited an emotional response.

If you don't believe, go rewatch some games but ONLY watch Okoro, just tune out the rest of the game and focus on his on-ball defense. If you do that and still don't believe, I respectfully disagree. The issue is that you can't just disregard advanced stats

If people are really that upset with the word elite? Fine, I'll say great or find some other synonym. He's statistically well above average in just about every defensive measure

Nah, unless your opinion has changed keep calling him elite and supporting it whenever and with whatever you find. Just take in to account some will be slow to the bandwagon, may never hop on it, or simply never see the stats the same way you do.

The point here is not to try to brow beat each other in to different views. It's not only ok to disagree - it fuels the board when we disagree.

As a fan of +/- and on/off stats dating back to the early 2000's it literally took years for some people to accept that Drew Gooden was a negative player on the floor. They saw his points, they saw his rebounds, they saw his skill-set and couldn't imagine it or that a far less skilled offensive player like Andy Varejao was far more valuable. The +/- data I'd share and link to was just "noise" until it repeated lineup after lineup and year after year.

[KuruptedCav]

Bball-index's D-LEBRON stat has Okoro around the 15th highest point of attack defender. Which makes him roughly thee best POA defender if put on half the teams in the league. Not elite, but certainly very good.

I would not use defensive win shares unless you like to penalize Okoro for leaking out on the break, which hurts his rebounding numbers but makes the offense better.

1) I do penalize him for leaking out on the break because I don’t see the offensive translation. What I do see is the offensive rebounding of opponents contributed to by one of the worst rebounding SF in the league.

2) Okoro’s D-Lebron is buoyed by team defense. It’s a metric that favors bigs and players who play with good bigs. Being 4th on the Cavs and the defensive splits he has when he plays with them vs playing in front of the Kevin Love experience.

It’s the fun that comes with relying on a metric that rates Jaylen Brown and Cedi Osman as functionally the same on defense…

3) I know he’s a good defender. This is not a knock on him. Just challenging the use of the stat to say he’s elite.

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1) We're 4th in the league in DRB%, and Okoro has improved his DRB% from 7.1% to 10.8%. Also surprised you don't notice the break points as Isaac's been good for a bucket or two that way per game.

2) I don't agree with you, otherwise Caruso wouldn't be leading POA defenders despite playing with mediocre defensive bigs. Also doesn't explain why Jrue Holiday is below Okoro, or why Tyrese Maxey is near the bottom of the list despite playing with Embiid. The numbers match up with my eye test.

3) I'd probably agree that he's good and not elite, just challenging the use of Defensive Win Shares. It's based on DRtg, which gives Kevin Love more credit as a defender than any member of the Cavs' backcourt. Same weakness that you attribute to D-LEBRON.

1) That’s kind of my point. We let Okoro off with a DRR% lower than Rubio, LeVert, Wade, and marginally better than Mitchell; because good team defenders mean he doesn’t get penalized for the cheat.

He is also able to play tight and cheat in man defense and be as active and pesky as he is because when he overplays, Mobley and Allen and generally good team defense means he pays less for it than say Jaylen Brown.

2) I don’t agree that Lopez & Giannis are defensively > Allen & Mobley. Shake isn’t a good defender. We’ll see where Caruso falls out after 50 games.

3) I agree that the Drtg isn’t an inclusive metric. I’m not advocating it. Just saying that quick hits there are reasons to not put him in elite category.

Elite to me looks like Evan Mobley.


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[ijspeelman]

1) I do penalize him for leaking out on the break because I don’t see the offensive translation. What I do see is the offensive rebounding of opponents contributed to by one of the worst rebounding SF in the league.

2) Okoro’s D-Lebron is buoyed by team defense. It’s a metric that favors bigs and players who play with good bigs. Being 4th on the Cavs and the defensive splits he has when he plays with them vs playing in front of the Kevin Love experience.

It’s the fun that comes with relying on a metric that rates Jaylen Brown and Cedi Osman as functionally the same on defense…

3) I know he’s a good defender. This is not a knock on him. Just challenging the use of the stat to say he’s elite.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1) We're 4th in the league in DRB%, and Okoro has improved his DRB% from 7.1% to 10.8%. Also surprised you don't notice the break points as Isaac's been good for a bucket or two that way per game.

2) I don't agree with you, otherwise Caruso wouldn't be leading POA defenders despite playing with mediocre defensive bigs. Also doesn't explain why Jrue Holiday is below Okoro, or why Tyrese Maxey is near the bottom of the list despite playing with Embiid. The numbers match up with my eye test.

3) I'd probably agree that he's good and not elite, just challenging the use of Defensive Win Shares. It's based on DRtg, which gives Kevin Love more credit as a defender than any member of the Cavs' backcourt. Same weakness that you attribute to D-LEBRON.

1) That’s kind of my point. We let Okoro off with a DRR% lower than Rubio, LeVert, Wade, and marginally better than Mitchell; because good team defenders mean he doesn’t get penalized for the cheat.

He is also able to play tight and cheat in man defense and be as active and pesky as he is because when he overplays, Mobley and Allen and generally good team defense means he pays less for it than say Jaylen Brown.

2) I don’t agree that Lopez & Giannis are defensively > Allen & Mobley. Shake isn’t a good defender. We’ll see where Caruso falls out after 50 games.

3) I agree that the Drtg isn’t an inclusive metric. I’m not advocating it. Just saying that quick hits there are reasons to not put him in elite category.

Elite to me looks like Evan Mobley.


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Tbf Mobley and a player in Okoro's mold have wildly different roles on defense. Imo it is harder for a wing to be a more impactful defender than a big in general (but maybe that is changing).

I have been critical of Okoro's defense in the past (https://highscreener.wordpress.com/2022/11/01/isaac-okoros-4q-against-new-york-knicks/), but I have not given him much thought since then. To recap my previous thoughts (not all included in the post attached), I thought he was an overrated on-ball defender (not that he was bad just not elite), a lazy or lackadaisical off-ball at times, and not the best screen navigator.

From what I've seen without really looking in the past few months, I've noticed many less breakdowns defensively (on-ball and off). On-ball, he has been keeping his fouls down as of late and keeping his guys in front of him when he can one-on-one. I've paid very little attention to his PNR defense so I will not comment on it (I may later down the road when I've scouted him doing it for a few games). Off-ball, he's tagging rollers well when its his job, zoning up when his man helps to play passing lanes, and closing out hard when he needs to switch. He's also been a good last second clean-up guy when he's beat and he can get the block (not the most impactful skill as it happens less often, but a good skill to have).

[toooskies]

1) I do penalize him for leaking out on the break because I don’t see the offensive translation. What I do see is the offensive rebounding of opponents contributed to by one of the worst rebounding SF in the league.

2) Okoro’s D-Lebron is buoyed by team defense. It’s a metric that favors bigs and players who play with good bigs. Being 4th on the Cavs and the defensive splits he has when he plays with them vs playing in front of the Kevin Love experience.

It’s the fun that comes with relying on a metric that rates Jaylen Brown and Cedi Osman as functionally the same on defense…

3) I know he’s a good defender. This is not a knock on him. Just challenging the use of the stat to say he’s elite.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

1) We're 4th in the league in DRB%, and Okoro has improved his DRB% from 7.1% to 10.8%. Also surprised you don't notice the break points as Isaac's been good for a bucket or two that way per game.

2) I don't agree with you, otherwise Caruso wouldn't be leading POA defenders despite playing with mediocre defensive bigs. Also doesn't explain why Jrue Holiday is below Okoro, or why Tyrese Maxey is near the bottom of the list despite playing with Embiid. The numbers match up with my eye test.

3) I'd probably agree that he's good and not elite, just challenging the use of Defensive Win Shares. It's based on DRtg, which gives Kevin Love more credit as a defender than any member of the Cavs' backcourt. Same weakness that you attribute to D-LEBRON.

1) That’s kind of my point. We let Okoro off with a DRR% lower than Rubio, LeVert, Wade, and marginally better than Mitchell; because good team defenders mean he doesn’t get penalized for the cheat.

He is also able to play tight and cheat in man defense and be as active and pesky as he is because when he overplays, Mobley and Allen and generally good team defense means he pays less for it than say Jaylen Brown.

2) I don’t agree that Lopez & Giannis are defensively > Allen & Mobley. Shake isn’t a good defender. We’ll see where Caruso falls out after 50 games.

3) I agree that the Drtg isn’t an inclusive metric. I’m not advocating it. Just saying that quick hits there are reasons to not put him in elite category.

Elite to me looks like Evan Mobley.


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1) "Whether Okoro is crashing the boards on defense or leaking out is almost certainly a coaching decision and one where Isaac would be getting benched if JBB didn't like it or at least tolerate some discretion. Okoro often being assigned to the point of attack also means he's more often contesting a shot or attached to the perimeter as opposed to Wade or Stevens who are more often get to cheat into the paint.

2) I didn't say that. But Holiday has all-defensive team credentials. Heck, Giannis has all-defensive team credentials and Lopez is a DPOY candidate this year. If the metric favors strong defense from bigs, it should favor Holiday. (It actually favors Carter in Milwaukee a lot more. It does not favor Collin Sexton.)

3) The metric doesn't even put Okoro in the elite category. I'm not the person arguing he was elite.

[ijspeelman]

Side note: the Cavs are 4th in the league in DRB% (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023.html?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#advanced-team) so its not like we are giving out ORBs. Team DRB% is much more important than an individual's DRB%.

If want to discredit Okoro, his on/off numbers suggest we are the 10th best team in DRB% when he is on the floor and number 2 when he is out. IDK how much I care about this difference since it could always be noise, especially since in his last two years we were much better at getting rebounds when he was out there. Either way, just wanted to provide the numbers.

[JonFromVA]

Side note: the Cavs are 4th in the league in DRB% (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023.html?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#advanced-team) so its not like we are giving out ORBs. Team DRB% is much more important than an individual's DRB%.

If want to discredit Okoro, his on/off numbers suggest we are the 10th best team in DRB% when he is on the floor and number 2 when he is out. IDK how much I care about this difference since it could always be noise, especially since in his last two years we were much better at getting rebounds when he was out there. Either way, just wanted to provide the numbers.

Letting Isaac run in transition sure seems beneficial, obviously the key is that others have to make up for our SF not hitting the boards. The important thing is we're doing it for the team, not just to pad Isaac's scoring numbers.

Because we play at such a slow pace intently grinding the clock down, any easy buckets we can generate are a big help.

[toooskies]

Side note: the Cavs are 4th in the league in DRB% (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023.html?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#advanced-team) so its not like we are giving out ORBs. Team DRB% is much more important than an individual's DRB%.

If want to discredit Okoro, his on/off numbers suggest we are the 10th best team in DRB% when he is on the floor and number 2 when he is out. IDK how much I care about this difference since it could always be noise, especially since in his last two years we were much better at getting rebounds when he was out there. Either way, just wanted to provide the numbers.

One difference being that in past years, Isaac was playing more at SG.

[ijspeelman]

Side note: the Cavs are 4th in the league in DRB% (https://www.basketball-reference.com/leagues/NBA_2023.html?sr&utm_source=direct&utm_medium=Share&utm_campaign=ShareTool#advanced-team) so its not like we are giving out ORBs. Team DRB% is much more important than an individual's DRB%.

If want to discredit Okoro, his on/off numbers suggest we are the 10th best team in DRB% when he is on the floor and number 2 when he is out. IDK how much I care about this difference since it could always be noise, especially since in his last two years we were much better at getting rebounds when he was out there. Either way, just wanted to provide the numbers.

One difference being that in past years, Isaac was playing more at SG.

Fair point.

[JujitsuFlip]

Not reputable based on what? Dunksandthrees is free btw (he’s 91st percentile in their model) but I suppose you have a better model?

84th percentile in D-LeBron, 93rd percentile in DBPM, 94th in rim DFG% saved, 94th in on ball perimeter defense, 91st in ball screen navigation, spends 30% of his time defending the highest usage players 98th, 97th in matchup difficulty, and 91st in defensive versatility.

But please share your ultra advanced model that is more reputable than all of these stats

The bold, they come from what source? Please share.

The same place you poo poo'd before. bball index.

Yeah, because like I said before, personally, I don't want my stats including luck and estimations lol

But to your point about dunksandthrees, no it's not free and the subscription i think has actually went up since you last posted it... Taylor Snarr probably knows numbers, otherwise the Jazz never woulda hired him, regardless how short term it was. But the guy has an BA in psychology so sorry if I'm unimpressed by his findings, I don't consider them reputable and I'm unsure if the guy knows basketball.

[JonFromVA]

The bold, they come from what source? Please share.

The same place you poo poo'd before. bball index.

Yeah, because like I said before, personally, I don't want my stats including luck and estimations lol

But to your point about dunksandthrees, no it's not free and the subscription i think has actually went up since you last posted it... Taylor Snarr probably knows numbers, otherwise the Jazz never woulda hired him, regardless how short term it was. But the guy has an BA in psychology so sorry if I'm unimpressed by his findings, I don't consider them reputable and I'm unsure if the guy knows basketball.

Maybe we'll get some more free web sites?

Don't need a PHD in math or programming when you can just ask ChatGPT how to go about crunching the numbers and generating a web page.

[mcfly1204]

We're not still talking about Okoro's defense, are we?

[ijspeelman]

The bold, they come from what source? Please share.

The same place you poo poo'd before. bball index.

Yeah, because like I said before, personally, I don't want my stats including luck and estimations lol

But to your point about dunksandthrees, no it's not free and the subscription i think has actually went up since you last posted it... Taylor Snarr probably knows numbers, otherwise the Jazz never woulda hired him, regardless how short term it was. But the guy has an BA in psychology so sorry if I'm unimpressed by his findings, I don't consider them reputable and I'm unsure if the guy knows basketball.

Ben Taylor of Thinking Basketball was a cognitive scientist in a past life. I wouldn't really discount an individual do to their achievements outside of basketball. I honestly don't use dunksandthrees so I have no idea how reputable they are or anything about their metrics, but just saying.

Sites I use for stats:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/
https://www.pbpstats.com/
https://www.nba.com/stats
https://www.bball-index.com/lebron-database/

I have a paid one I use (occasionally two), but I rarely cite their data since I cannot really back it up by letting everyone else see lol.

[ijspeelman]

We're not still talking about Okoro's defense, are we?

The discussion is valid. Its not a question if he's good at defense, but instead if he is an elite level guard. Its a high bar and its hard to prove.

I did scouting on two games since my last comment and watched all his defensive possessions for 1/10/2023 and 1/12/2023 against UTA and POR respectively (I will do some more scouting in the games coming up and may go back if I feel like making a big post).

Basically everything I said still stands imo. I personally wouldn't put him at the level of the OG's, Mikal Bridges', and Jrue Holiday's of the world for one-on-one defense, but he definitely is no slouch. In the POR game, he had some gorgeous one-on-one possessions against Dame and Jerami Grant specifically.

PNR defense is still hard to gauge because no matter how good you are, you will still get stuck on good screens (or good moving screens). I've had a big plan to scout out what makes good PNR defense and have done some research, but have been too busy since the summer to go really far on it. From what I've seen from some of the premier PNR defenders (Jrue, Smart, Caruso), Okoro gets bounced around more than them on screens though he is really good at recovering when he has to.

I mentioned off-ball issues and I think I may have just picked a bad UTA game to watch him in so I don't want to comment on the failing there. He had two to three possessions where there was a defensive breakdown that starts with him, but they all devolved into a mess of others also failing in their duties so IDK want to harp on him. In general, he's really good at zoning up on the weakside and helping when he is the weak-side defender. His miscommunication normally comes on switches that weren't communicated (at least in these two games I scouted).