What can the cavs offer to get Kidd?

Smooth32 · Post #41 » by **Smooth32** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:20 am

Do you guys think that NJ will seriously trade Kidd to a Eastern Conference Rival that has LeBron "Frickn'" James on it? Yea right... Plus we don't even have the serious pieces to get it done...

The only deal I could see remotely close is the following:

CLE Gets:
Jason Kidd
Jason Collins

NJN Gets:
Jarret Jack
Martell Webster
Drew Gooden
Ira Newble
Eric Snow
CLE 1st round pick

POR Get:
Damon Jones
Cedric Simmons

And even that is unrealistic since we don't have the contracts to get it done as well as the pieces... Bibby is still the best option and the most realistic...

jnester71 · Post #42 » by **jnester71** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:42 am

It is reported that Kidd told his "close friends" that he wanted to go to Dallas.. play for Cuban.. where it all started.

There is also a report that Kidd is headed to Dallas via a three way deal with the Trailblazers..

Basically the Nets get Stackhouse, Travis Outlaw and couple of others.. the Blazers get Devin Harris and the Mavs get Kidd..

because of my disappointment I can't remember the exact details..

I doubt the Nets trade him within the Eastern conference..

jnester71 · Post #43 » by **jnester71** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:46 am

Hey Smooth...

Personally I can't see how we can make the Bibby deal work..

you said that it is "realistic"..

give me a scenario if you can..

the only scenarios I see Sacramento doing would involve them taking a Hughes, Marshall or a Snow..

and that is in NO WAY realistic

especially considering at this time next season Bibby will be worth twice as much since he'll be expiring..

maybe not worth twice as much.. but twice as many teams will be interested..

Harper4Ferry? · Post #44 » by **Harper4Ferry?** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:02 am

Devin harris is extremely hard to trade since he's received a contract extension. Maybe there is so much money involved in the trade that the 125% thing makes it easier.

jnester71 · Post #45 » by **jnester71** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 3:39 am

yeah, cash was involved in the deal..

here's the article...

The Nets are reportedly in discussions with the Mavericks and Blazers in a deal that would send Jason Kidd to Dallas.

While nothing is confirmed, the potential deal would send Kidd, Malik Allen, Jamaal Magloire, a draft pick and cash to Dallas. The Nets would get Devean George and Jerry Stackhouse from the Mavs, and Travis Outlaw, Jarrett Jack and Channing Frye from Portland, while the Blazers would get Dallas PG Devin Harris. Whether this blockbuster happens or not remains to be seen, but the Nets are reportedly scrambling to move Kidd sooner than later. And we're also not sure what good this trade would do for the Blazers. In fact, it hurts more than it helps.

Smooth32 · Post #46 » by **Smooth32** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:11 am

jnester71 wrote:Hey Smooth...

Personally I can't see how we can make the Bibby deal work..

you said that it is "realistic"..

give me a scenario if you can..

the only scenarios I see Sacramento doing would involve them taking a Hughes, Marshall or a Snow..

and that is in NO WAY realistic

especially considering at this time next season Bibby will be worth twice as much since he'll be expiring..

maybe not worth twice as much.. but twice as many teams will be interested..

Hughes? He definitely does not and will not be traded to Sacramento...

What about:

Eric Snow, Ira Newble, Drew Gooden and Shannon Brown for Kenny Thomas and Mike Bibby... It works financially and is on base for what the Kings would want...

If not a 3-way with Jack, Newble and Gooden going to Sacramento, with Snow and Simmons going to Portland And Miles, Bibby and Frye coming to CLE...

Post #47 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 4:13 am

One of the main reasons we don't have Bibby now is that we didn't want Thomas or his contract.

jnester71 · Post #48 » by **jnester71** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 10:11 am

if Ferry can move Eric Snow he is the greatest GM of all time hands down..

no one is taking the least productive player in the NBA off our hands until at least the deadline next season..

but by then we may be better off keeping his expiring dollars..

every GM will tell you that the talent available at the deadline usually comes with baggage..

meaning we'd be best off being major players in offseason free agency after next season

if getting a declining Mike Bibby means taking on Kenny Thomas' contract AND losing a Gooden we're better off staying pat

kiwibrindle · Post #49 » by **kiwibrindle** » Thu Jan 31, 2008 2:12 pm

Chicago is looking to move Wallace in a bad way they may move a valuable pick like Hinrich to dump Wallace.

Clev sends Hughes, Gooden, and Marshall and gets Hinrich and Wallace

Then Clev packages all if its expiring crap two picks and Hinrich for Kidd.

We get stuck with Wallace's contract but we get Kidd

Smooth32 · Post #50 » by **Smooth32** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 2:29 am

jnester71 wrote:no one is taking the least productive player in the NBA off our hands until at least the deadline next season..

Why? He'll be expiring next season...

jnester71 wrote:if getting a declining Mike Bibby means taking on Kenny Thomas' contract AND losing a Gooden we're better off staying pat

LOL!

Please explain to me how a 29 year old Bibby is declining... It seizes to amaze me each time someone say that...

jnester71 · Post #51 » by **jnester71** » Fri Feb 1, 2008 7:27 am

expiring contracts are attractive at the trade deadline because a new team is only on the hook for the remaining 5 months of the contract

Bibby is expiring after next season too..

his bigger dollar contract is more attractive than E. Snows

why would they take Snow?

they won't

nobody is taking Snow

if Ferry could get anything for Snow he'd already be gone

taking Snow to give up Thomas doesn't solve any problems.. it just changes the problems name.

Sacramento isn't dealing Bibby to help us out..

they are looking to solve a problem..

Post #52 » by **B Mac** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 6:10 pm

After seeing what the Grizzlies got back for Gasol, I think a reality check set in for people who were claiming the Nets would be getting the world back for JKidd and the Kings for Bibby.

Post #53 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Sat Feb 2, 2008 6:49 pm

What does Bibby being 29 have to do with whether he is declining or not?

jnester71 · Post #54 » by **jnester71** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 1:38 am

apparently he's not declining simply because he is 29

it doesn't matter that his shooting percentage has gone down for five consecutive years

it's not that I don't think Bibby is a good player..
I just don't think he is great player.
I don't think he's a difference maker all by himself

I'd rather keep Drew and NOT enter complete salary cap hell with no chance of turning back by taking on Thomas' contract than have Bibby

i'd like to have Bibby.. but only if he came cheap and easy

I think at next year's trade deadline or in the off season after next we can improve by ridiculous leaps and bounds..

most people don't have that kind of patience though

if we go making a move that offers minor improvement like adding Bibby and losing Gooden we'll be soo limited financially in the years to come that may be as good as we ever get

Smooth32 · Post #55 » by **Smooth32** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 4:07 am

jnester71 wrote:apparently he's not declining simply because he is 29

it doesn't matter that his shooting percentage has gone down for five consecutive years

He had a thumb injury last year...

The talent around him has steadily decreased as well, causing defenses to focus more on him...

He's had (IIRC), 3 coaches in the last 3 years...

jnester71 wrote:I don't think he's a difference maker all by himself

Agreed but put him next to LeBron and watch out... Putting a scorer, a PG and a legit #2 threat out there would do more than Kidd would do...

jnester71 wrote:I'd rather keep Drew and NOT enter complete salary cap hell with no chance of turning back by taking on Thomas' contract than have Bibby

Dumping Drew would be a positive... THe guy is going nowhere fast as far as progression goes and his defense and basketball IQ are nauseating...

jnester71 wrote:if we go making a move that offers minor improvement like adding Bibby and losing Gooden we'll be soo limited financially in the years to come that may be as good as we ever get

Your forgetting that we will have close to 15 mil in expirings next year (possible 22); not including Drew) and 30 (possibly 57)... So yea you can squash that...

Smooth32 · Post #56 » by **Smooth32** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 4:08 am

TheOUTLAW wrote:What does Bibby being 29 have to do with whether he is declining or not?

NBA players reach their prime around 27 years old and leave it around 32 years of age, give or take a few years either way...

Post #57 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 4:22 am

My comment was a response to the idea that he's not declining merely because he is 29. Fact is players can decline at any period whether they are 29 or not.

By the way, hasn't Bibby also had Artest and Miller around him not to mention Martin for a few seasons. Sure the teams talent level might have declined a tad, but they've got enough talent on that team.

realfung · Post #58 » by **realfung** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 1:18 pm

As long as you guys keep LBJ, Hughes(just because no one will take his contract), Big Z.
You guys will be fine. Forget about keeping Gibson for your sake, its J-Kidd.

jnester71 · Post #59 » by **jnester71** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 8:05 pm

it would be great to still have 15 or 22 mil in expirings even if we give up Drew..

too bad we'd have to go into Knicks territory to sign anyone with
Lebron, Hughes, Z, Bibby and Thomas making so much money already that its ridiculous!!!

Bibby 14.5 million
LBJ 14.4 million
Hughes 12.9 million
Z 11 million
Thomas 8 million

over 60 million with 10 roster spots to fill

this doesn't even account for Bibby's trade kicker..

OR the fact that we'd have to sign him after 08!

Smooth32 · Post #60 » by **Smooth32** » Sun Feb 3, 2008 8:42 pm

jnester71 wrote:it would be great to still have 15 or 22 mil in expirings even if we give up Drew..

too bad we'd have to go into Knicks territory to sign anyone with
Lebron, Hughes, Z, Bibby and Thomas making so much money already that its ridiculous!!!

Bibby 14.5 million
LBJ 14.4 million
Hughes 12.9 million
Z 11 million
Thomas 8 million

over 60 million with 10 roster spots to fill

this doesn't even account for Bibby's trade kicker..

OR the fact that we'd have to sign him after 08!

Free Agency isn't as valuable as having valuable trade assets... Having assests get you Kevin Garnett, Rasheed Wallace, Tracy McGrady, Shaquille O'Neal Ray Allen, Pau Gasol, Allen Iverson, Vince Carter etc., whereas free agency gets you Rashard Lewis, Darko Milicic, Peja Stojakovic, Ben Wallace, etc.,...

While Free Agency will get you a star player every couple of years, the majority of free agency is role players and bench players who can fill certain niches and the majority of the time you overpay for them...

Whereas trades are where you get superstars and get the players you need to win championships...

Once in awhile you'll stumble upon a class with Joe Johnson and Ray Allen or Elton Brand and Gilbert Arenas, but more often than not, you acquire you main pieces through the trade market..