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[Stillwater]

You said the roster was holding Collin back ... yet a player who's about as close to a zero threat to score the ball as exists in the NBA can create easy shots for those same teammates.

They're basically polar opposites, and yet ... one struggles to score the ball, while the other struggles to pass the ball and hence both invite defenders to cheat.

If Collin doesn't want to see double and triple teams, all he has to do is figure out who they're leaving open. What does that take? A grade school understanding of the game? Actually manipulating the defense to get that player a better shot? Maybe jr high?

How many times should he be passing to teammates that dont covert ? How many times would you if the team was depending on you to score? I just dont think the issue is at all a lack of understanding of the game at all it is a level of competitiveness that doesn't wait for plays to develop and forces plays to happen or just goes for it when they dont.
I would like to see him make faster decisions and for them to keep the ball moving and see if it can work but often times he gets himself open and is the shooter

I just wish he’d shoot more or take an acting class and get to the line on the drive.


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He needs to take more 3s and I am glad he isnt a foul bait machine myself never respect that style of play.
Nothing Sexton does is ever going to be good enough for the average cavs fan imo so he is probably better off getting moved to somewhere different...somewhere good

[jbk1234]

LOL what part about being the first option do you not understand??? of course he isnt going to pass more than Delly whos main objective is to find teammates or set them up because he is not a capable 1 on 1 scorer lol
I really think some of you think we are talking about jr high basketball players here where noone has established themselves and the best option because nobody is skilled at much of anything yet

You said the roster was holding Collin back ... yet a player who's about as close to a zero threat to score the ball as exists in the NBA can create easy shots for those same teammates.

They're basically polar opposites, and yet ... one struggles to score the ball, while the other struggles to pass the ball and hence both invite defenders to cheat.

If Collin doesn't want to see double and triple teams, all he has to do is figure out who they're leaving open. What does that take? A grade school understanding of the game? Actually manipulating the defense to get that player a better shot? Maybe jr high?

Delly passing to Collin vs Collin passing to Delly likely has two very different assist outcomes…


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Also, one of those is mostly a theoretical exercise.

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[jbk1234]

You said the roster was holding Collin back ... yet a player who's about as close to a zero threat to score the ball as exists in the NBA can create easy shots for those same teammates.

They're basically polar opposites, and yet ... one struggles to score the ball, while the other struggles to pass the ball and hence both invite defenders to cheat.

If Collin doesn't want to see double and triple teams, all he has to do is figure out who they're leaving open. What does that take? A grade school understanding of the game? Actually manipulating the defense to get that player a better shot? Maybe jr high?

How many times should he be passing to teammates that dont covert ? How many times would you if the team was depending on you to score? I just dont think the issue is at all a lack of understanding of the game at all it is a level of competitiveness that doesn't wait for plays to develop and forces plays to happen or just goes for it when they dont.
I would like to see him make faster decisions and for them to keep the ball moving and see if it can work but often times he gets himself open and is the shooter

I just wish he’d shoot more or take an acting class and get to the line on the drive.


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Collin went to the line a lot last year and there was plenty of flailing. He's well above the mean. He's close to star treatment. Look at the jump between his second and third seasons:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sextoco01.html

Among all starters, he was 26th in NBA in total usage and he was about there in terms of FGA per game.

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[KuruptedCav]

How many times should he be passing to teammates that dont covert ? How many times would you if the team was depending on you to score? I just dont think the issue is at all a lack of understanding of the game at all it is a level of competitiveness that doesn't wait for plays to develop and forces plays to happen or just goes for it when they dont.
I would like to see him make faster decisions and for them to keep the ball moving and see if it can work but often times he gets himself open and is the shooter

I just wish he’d shoot more or take an acting class and get to the line on the drive.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Collin went to the line a lot last year and there was plenty of flailing. He's well above the mean. He's close to star treatment. Look at the jump between his second and third seasons:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sextoco01.html

Among all starters, he was 26th in NBA in total usage and he was about there in terms of FGA per game.

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Probably just my subjective opinion, feels like he’s fouled more substantively than other players, so he doesn’t seem to finish through contact like he should. And maybe some of that is diminutive stature, maybe some is not seeing the contact coming and adjusting.

I’d just be happier with more 3pts and more And1s.


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[jbk1234]

I just wish he’d shoot more or take an acting class and get to the line on the drive.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Collin went to the line a lot last year and there was plenty of flailing. He's well above the mean. He's close to star treatment. Look at the jump between his second and third seasons:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sextoco01.html

Among all starters, he was 26th in NBA in total usage and he was about there in terms of FGA per game.

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Probably just my subjective opinion, feels like he’s fouled more substantively than other players, so he doesn’t seem to finish through contact like he should. And maybe some of that is diminutive stature, maybe some is not seeing the contact coming and adjusting.

I’d just be happier with more 3pts and more And1s.


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Oh, he definitely needs to shoot from outside more.

The only time I notice him getting contact and not getting the call is in the final minutes of a game which isn't unique to Sexton.

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[Stillwater]

Collin went to the line a lot last year and there was plenty of flailing. He's well above the mean. He's close to star treatment. Look at the jump between his second and third seasons:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sextoco01.html

Among all starters, he was 26th in NBA in total usage and he was about there in terms of FGA per game.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Probably just my subjective opinion, feels like he’s fouled more substantively than other players, so he doesn’t seem to finish through contact like he should. And maybe some of that is diminutive stature, maybe some is not seeing the contact coming and adjusting.

I’d just be happier with more 3pts and more And1s.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Oh, he definitely needs to shoot from outside more.

The only time I notice him getting contact and not getting the call is in the final minutes of a game which isn't unique to Sexton.

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lol then you need to pay more attention because he doesnt get the calls that are not fouls like star players do because he is not baiting defenders... maybe occasionally he will stop his momentum now to get to the line when a defender trailing makes contact but besides that it is rare.
This team sucks and everything that people keep complaining about with Sexton for the most part is misdirected frustrations . Is he perfect nope but he is proving to be a pretty consistent force even in the situation he is in which has been less than ideal.
If the Cavs trade him and draft Green, outside of a healthy roster like the start of last season masking Greens deficiencies as a player, there will be little if any upgrade in Greens offense over Sextons.

[JonFromVA]

LOL what part about being the first option do you not understand??? of course he isnt going to pass more than Delly whos main objective is to find teammates or set them up because he is not a capable 1 on 1 scorer lol
I really think some of you think we are talking about jr high basketball players here where noone has established themselves and the best option because nobody is skilled at much of anything yet

You said the roster was holding Collin back ... yet a player who's about as close to a zero threat to score the ball as exists in the NBA can create easy shots for those same teammates.

They're basically polar opposites, and yet ... one struggles to score the ball, while the other struggles to pass the ball and hence both invite defenders to cheat.

If Collin doesn't want to see double and triple teams, all he has to do is figure out who they're leaving open. What does that take? A grade school understanding of the game? Actually manipulating the defense to get that player a better shot? Maybe jr high?

Delly passing to Collin vs Collin passing to Delly likely has two very different assist outcomes…

Sure, but Delly's defender is going to be there to help stop Collin unless the play is bang-bang and there's no time ... which gets to my point. I'd suggest we dig in further to isolate his lineups but Delly didn't play enough minutes for that to make much sense, but the fact Delly can walk in cold in to a game with a random group of teammates and posing no threat of his own still find ways to create shots for teammates should be self-evident if you've watched the Cavs play.

In fact, all of this should be self-evident.

And if it was then we could move on to discussing the important stuff like how much has Collin improved, in what areas, and how much better do we think he can get?

No matter the ground facts, I'm not going to be happy with a conclusion that a 22 year has already peaked.

[JonFromVA]

LOL what part about being the first option do you not understand??? of course he isnt going to pass more than Delly whos main objective is to find teammates or set them up because he is not a capable 1 on 1 scorer lol
I really think some of you think we are talking about jr high basketball players here where noone has established themselves and the best option because nobody is skilled at much of anything yet

You said the roster was holding Collin back ... yet a player who's about as close to a zero threat to score the ball as exists in the NBA can create easy shots for those same teammates.

They're basically polar opposites, and yet ... one struggles to score the ball, while the other struggles to pass the ball and hence both invite defenders to cheat.

If Collin doesn't want to see double and triple teams, all he has to do is figure out who they're leaving open. What does that take? A grade school understanding of the game? Actually manipulating the defense to get that player a better shot? Maybe jr high?

How many times should he be passing to teammates that dont covert ? How many times would you if the team was depending on you to score? I just dont think the issue is at all a lack of understanding of the game at all it is a level of competitiveness that doesn't wait for plays to develop and forces plays to happen or just goes for it when they dont.
I would like to see him make faster decisions and for them to keep the ball moving and see if it can work but often times he gets himself open and is the shooter

The trick is not taking what the defense gives you, and getting the ball to your teammates in positions they can score.

It really gets to the nature of what is basketball IQ and who's helping our players develop it.

And with Delly leaving this season, who's going to be in their ear helping them read situations?

[JonFromVA]

I just wish he’d shoot more or take an acting class and get to the line on the drive.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Collin went to the line a lot last year and there was plenty of flailing. He's well above the mean. He's close to star treatment. Look at the jump between his second and third seasons:
https://www.basketball-reference.com/players/s/sextoco01.html

Among all starters, he was 26th in NBA in total usage and he was about there in terms of FGA per game.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Probably just my subjective opinion, feels like he’s fouled more substantively than other players, so he doesn’t seem to finish through contact like he should. And maybe some of that is diminutive stature, maybe some is not seeing the contact coming and adjusting.

I’d just be happier with more 3pts and more And1s.

I'd point out the refs are rarely going to respect a player who drives in to triple teams then begs for a foul; doesn't matter if they're named LeBron James and they're the biggest up & coming star in the game, or Collin Sexton.

[JonFromVA]

Probably just my subjective opinion, feels like he’s fouled more substantively than other players, so he doesn’t seem to finish through contact like he should. And maybe some of that is diminutive stature, maybe some is not seeing the contact coming and adjusting.

I’d just be happier with more 3pts and more And1s.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

Oh, he definitely needs to shoot from outside more.

The only time I notice him getting contact and not getting the call is in the final minutes of a game which isn't unique to Sexton.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

lol then you need to pay more attention because he doesnt get the calls that are not fouls like star players do because he is not baiting defenders... maybe occasionally he will stop his momentum now to get to the line when a defender trailing makes contact but besides that it is rare.
This team sucks and everything that people keep complaining about with Sexton for the most part is misdirected frustrations . Is he perfect nope but he is proving to be a pretty consistent force even in the situation he is in which has been less than ideal.
If the Cavs trade him and draft Green, outside of a healthy roster like the start of last season masking Greens deficiencies as a player, there will be little if any upgrade in Greens offense over Sextons.

That depends how Green develops both physically and mentally, but he's taller/longer, shoots better, finishes better, jumps higher, etc, etc, at the same age. The ceiling and fit at SG for Green is potentially much higher ... but there's always risk.

And fwiw, a well constructed team should always be trying to play to a player's strengths and mask his deficiencies. Alas, we can only dream of the Cavs managing their young players like they knew what they were doing.

[Stillwater]

Oh, he definitely needs to shoot from outside more.

The only time I notice him getting contact and not getting the call is in the final minutes of a game which isn't unique to Sexton.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

lol then you need to pay more attention because he doesnt get the calls that are not fouls like star players do because he is not baiting defenders... maybe occasionally he will stop his momentum now to get to the line when a defender trailing makes contact but besides that it is rare.
This team sucks and everything that people keep complaining about with Sexton for the most part is misdirected frustrations . Is he perfect nope but he is proving to be a pretty consistent force even in the situation he is in which has been less than ideal.
If the Cavs trade him and draft Green, outside of a healthy roster like the start of last season masking Greens deficiencies as a player, there will be little if any upgrade in Greens offense over Sextons.

That depends how Green develops both physically and mentally, but he's taller/longer, shoots better, finishes better, jumps higher, etc, etc, at the same age. The ceiling and fit at SG for Green is potentially much higher ... but there's always risk.

And fwiw, a well constructed team should always be trying to play to a player's strengths and mask his deficiencies. Alas, we can only dream of the Cavs managing their young players like they knew what they were doing.

Green is 3 inches taller not 5...unless it is true he has grown a lot in the past year, he has the same ws as Okoro or shorter and that makes him 1" longer than Sexton ...1 inch for a player even less interested in playing defense than Sexton isnt allowing him to defend all 2 guards efficiently...
Greens greatest skill is his Ja Morant athleticism and everything else about his game is very similar to Sexton with a touch more KPJ like being able to shoot at a high level in iso situations and make shots or blow by defenders and has some passing skills but like Sexton always being a first option would have to be just that on this roster to justify taking him.That wont solve your dilemna of stagnated offense at all...
I would rather they kept Sexland another season at this point with the ability to stagger Okoro in and out of the guard rotation and take Mobley Barnes or Kuminga at 3 whoever they like as the highest ceiling prospect even if they dont help much right away offensively or see if they can get an actual return for DG like 7th from GSW taking Suggs or Green at 3 and bpa sf/pf at 7

[Stillwater]

So much for KLove boosting any trade value he cant even play a couple of games in the Olympics without getting injured.
If he does not take a buyout I would be shocked at this point

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[jbk1234]

So much for KLove boosting any trade value he cant even play a couple of games in the Olympics without getting injured.
If he does not take a buyout I would be shocked at this point

It's the same calf, no? I don't think he's taking a buyout. A medical retirement might be in the cards though. He gets 100% of his salary and a year from now the Cavs get his salary removed from the cap.

[Stillwater]

So much for KLove boosting any trade value he cant even play a couple of games in the Olympics without getting injured.
If he does not take a buyout I would be shocked at this point

It's the same calf, no? I don't think he's taking a buyout. A medical retirement might be in the cards though. He gets 100% of his salary and a year from now the Cavs get his salary removed from the cap.

It just seems like he is struggling to get past this same reoccurring calf issue from last season and maybe walked into the opportunity to go to Vegas but with the Covid issue growing worse again and the lack of fans in Japan he probably just said screw it Pop aint gonna play me anyway...but if it is an injury on top of an injury I dont like it because it just screams he is not going to ever be reliable for the Cavs or anyone else and his value is completely irrelevant now

[jbk1234]

Fellas, I think Toppin and Knox are headed to Portland. NY might even include both picks.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

[Stillwater]

Fellas, I think Toppin and Knox are headed to Portland. NY might even include both picks.

Read on Twitter

?s=20

LOLI am sure that will be the offer since it is all they got outside of bailing on RJ and 3 future firsts.

[JonFromVA]

lol then you need to pay more attention because he doesnt get the calls that are not fouls like star players do because he is not baiting defenders... maybe occasionally he will stop his momentum now to get to the line when a defender trailing makes contact but besides that it is rare.
This team sucks and everything that people keep complaining about with Sexton for the most part is misdirected frustrations . Is he perfect nope but he is proving to be a pretty consistent force even in the situation he is in which has been less than ideal.
If the Cavs trade him and draft Green, outside of a healthy roster like the start of last season masking Greens deficiencies as a player, there will be little if any upgrade in Greens offense over Sextons.

That depends how Green develops both physically and mentally, but he's taller/longer, shoots better, finishes better, jumps higher, etc, etc, at the same age. The ceiling and fit at SG for Green is potentially much higher ... but there's always risk.

And fwiw, a well constructed team should always be trying to play to a player's strengths and mask his deficiencies. Alas, we can only dream of the Cavs managing their young players like they knew what they were doing.

Green is 3 inches taller not 5...unless it is true he has grown a lot in the past year, he has the same ws as Okoro or shorter and that makes him 1" longer than Sexton ...1 inch for a player even less interested in playing defense than Sexton isnt allowing him to defend all 2 guards efficiently...
Greens greatest skill is his Ja Morant athleticism and everything else about his game is very similar to Sexton with a touch more KPJ like being able to shoot at a high level in iso situations and make shots or blow by defenders and has some passing skills but like Sexton always being a first option would have to be just that on this roster to justify taking him.That wont solve your dilemna of stagnated offense at all...
I would rather they kept Sexland another season at this point with the ability to stagger Okoro in and out of the guard rotation and take Mobley Barnes or Kuminga at 3 whoever they like as the highest ceiling prospect even if they dont help much right away offensively or see if they can get an actual return for DG like 7th from GSW taking Suggs or Green at 3 and bpa sf/pf at 7

Mobley still seems like our guy this week, and yes, that would let them punt on a Sexland decision. His shooting has a long ways to go, but given he's 7ft and everything else he brings it's pretty easy to set that aside.

[Stillwater]

That depends how Green develops both physically and mentally, but he's taller/longer, shoots better, finishes better, jumps higher, etc, etc, at the same age. The ceiling and fit at SG for Green is potentially much higher ... but there's always risk.

And fwiw, a well constructed team should always be trying to play to a player's strengths and mask his deficiencies. Alas, we can only dream of the Cavs managing their young players like they knew what they were doing.

Green is 3 inches taller not 5...unless it is true he has grown a lot in the past year, he has the same ws as Okoro or shorter and that makes him 1" longer than Sexton ...1 inch for a player even less interested in playing defense than Sexton isnt allowing him to defend all 2 guards efficiently...
Greens greatest skill is his Ja Morant athleticism and everything else about his game is very similar to Sexton with a touch more KPJ like being able to shoot at a high level in iso situations and make shots or blow by defenders and has some passing skills but like Sexton always being a first option would have to be just that on this roster to justify taking him.That wont solve your dilemna of stagnated offense at all...
I would rather they kept Sexland another season at this point with the ability to stagger Okoro in and out of the guard rotation and take Mobley Barnes or Kuminga at 3 whoever they like as the highest ceiling prospect even if they dont help much right away offensively or see if they can get an actual return for DG like 7th from GSW taking Suggs or Green at 3 and bpa sf/pf at 7

Mobley still seems like our guy this week, and yes, that would let them punt on a Sexland decision. His shooting has a long ways to go, but given he's 7ft and everything else he brings it's pretty easy to set that aside.

Ideal situation is Mobley is there for sure, but I am not buying Houston takes somebody besides Mobley at 2 except that there is some reason to believe they would value Green enough where they would be willing to trade down a spot to 3 to pick up a future from CLE so the Cavs can secure Mobley or something if Cavs are desperate

[JonFromVA]

So much for KLove boosting any trade value he cant even play a couple of games in the Olympics without getting injured.
If he does not take a buyout I would be shocked at this point

It's the same calf, no? I don't think he's taking a buyout. A medical retirement might be in the cards though. He gets 100% of his salary and a year from now the Cavs get his salary removed from the cap.

Who knows for sure what's going on, but I'm reading it as Kevin is not able to contribute to the team and they want to add someone who might. Pops was lamenting the conditioning of his group. So, I suspect it's more a case that Love can't just saunter in and contribute. When the NBA season startsup, though, he'll have time to sleep-walk through training camp, loaf through pre-season, and ease his way in to the regular season ... and then if we're "lucky" we'll catch a few weeks of whatever peak KLove turns out to be before the trade deadline.

[jbk1234]

So much for KLove boosting any trade value he cant even play a couple of games in the Olympics without getting injured.
If he does not take a buyout I would be shocked at this point

It's the same calf, no? I don't think he's taking a buyout. A medical retirement might be in the cards though. He gets 100% of his salary and a year from now the Cavs get his salary removed from the cap.

Who knows for sure what's going on, but I'm reading it as Kevin is not able to contribute to the team and they want to add someone who might. Pops was lamenting the conditioning of his group. So, I suspect it's more a case that Love can't just saunter in and contribute. When the NBA season startsup, though, he'll have time to sleep-walk through training camp, loaf through pre-season, and ease his way in to the regular season ... and then if we're "lucky" we'll catch a few weeks of whatever peak KLove turns out to be before the trade deadline.

If that's the case, and the injury is a fig leaf, then I'm definitely starting Nance at PF.