Trade Ideas

[LivingLegend]

To be fair, last night we were missing our starting PG (Garland), backup PG (Rubio), and a starting combo guard (Sexton). The fact that we pulled out the win starting Cedi at PG is kind of amazing.

True, but we were playing the 2nd worst team in basketball without their #1 or #2 players. We should have easily been able to get by with a 10-20 point win without Garland.

There is just noooooobody on this team who can create their own shot off the dribble besides Garland/Cedi.

Watching Rondo/Okoro/Stevens/Love/Allen on the floor together was painful. Everyone taking 2 dribbles and stop because none of them can dribble well enough to put a cross over on a guy and beat their man to the bucket for a shot attempt or shoot well enough to keep them honest.

Oh yeah, WHERE IS DYLAN WINDLER. When your 9/31 from 3 and struggling to generate offense it sure would be nice to bring a good shooter off the bench.

The real red flag was Mobley going 1-7 and scoring 4 points in 22 minutes. I hope it's Garland's absence and not the rookie wall we're looking at.

Its a bit of both IMO. He has really lost some steam in the past week or two but having the only player on the team who can generate good looks for him being out certainly didnt help.

This team is so DG dependent its ridiculous

[jbk1234]

True, but we were playing the 2nd worst team in basketball without their #1 or #2 players. We should have easily been able to get by with a 10-20 point win without Garland.

There is just noooooobody on this team who can create their own shot off the dribble besides Garland/Cedi.

Watching Rondo/Okoro/Stevens/Love/Allen on the floor together was painful. Everyone taking 2 dribbles and stop because none of them can dribble well enough to put a cross over on a guy and beat their man to the bucket for a shot attempt or shoot well enough to keep them honest.

Oh yeah, WHERE IS DYLAN WINDLER. When your 9/31 from 3 and struggling to generate offense it sure would be nice to bring a good shooter off the bench.

The real red flag was Mobley going 1-7 and scoring 4 points in 22 minutes. I hope it's Garland's absence and not the rookie wall we're looking at.

Its a bit of both IMO. He has really lost some steam in the past week or two but having the only player on the team who can generate good looks for him being out certainly didnt help.

This team is so DG dependent its ridiculous

I don't think Rondo is that bad in terms of generating looks. He's still getting a feel for his teammates. He's played 4 or 5 games and last night was his first game with the starters. The Cavs could really use a guy like E. Gordon IMO. Altman has to thread a needle here. A guy who can be a secondary facilitator, help spread the floor, and get his own bucket, is just what the doctor ordered. A guy who will hijack the offense, stop the ball movement, and negatively impacts chemistry, would be a net negative IMO.

[LivingLegend]

The real red flag was Mobley going 1-7 and scoring 4 points in 22 minutes. I hope it's Garland's absence and not the rookie wall we're looking at.

Its a bit of both IMO. He has really lost some steam in the past week or two but having the only player on the team who can generate good looks for him being out certainly didnt help.

This team is so DG dependent its ridiculous

I don't think Rondo is that bad in terms of generating looks. He's still getting a feel for his teammates. He's played 4 or 5 games and last night was his first game with the starters. The Cavs could really use a guy like E. Gordon IMO. Altman has to thread a needle here. A guy who can be a secondary facilitator, help spread the floor, and get his own bucket, is just what the doctor ordered. A guy who will hijack the offense, stop the ball movement, and negatively impacts chemistry, would be a net negative IMO.

Agreed, all I want is a wing player who is capable of beating his man off the dribble for his own shot. Watching Stevens/Okoro try to do that is setting basketball back 15 years.

But Rondo.....man. He cant beat his guy off the dribble anymore either. Like Rubio did, he would beat his man, get into the paint and then dump off, kick out, ect. You cant do any sort of drive/kick or get easy looks for your bigs if you cant beat your guy from the perimeter. I need Rondo to get into the teeth of the defense to generate offense and assist opportunities.

[jbk1234]

Its a bit of both IMO. He has really lost some steam in the past week or two but having the only player on the team who can generate good looks for him being out certainly didnt help.

This team is so DG dependent its ridiculous

I don't think Rondo is that bad in terms of generating looks. He's still getting a feel for his teammates. He's played 4 or 5 games and last night was his first game with the starters. The Cavs could really use a guy like E. Gordon IMO. Altman has to thread a needle here. A guy who can be a secondary facilitator, help spread the floor, and get his own bucket, is just what the doctor ordered. A guy who will hijack the offense, stop the ball movement, and negatively impacts chemistry, would be a net negative IMO.

Agreed, all I want is a wing player who is capable of beating his man off the dribble for his own shot. Watching Stevens/Okoro try to do that is setting basketball back 15 years.

But Rondo.....man. He cant beat his guy off the dribble anymore either. Like Rubio did, he would beat his man, get into the paint and then dump off, kick out, ect. You cant do any sort of drive/kick or get easy looks for your bigs if you cant beat your guy from the perimeter. I need Rondo to get into the teeth of the defense to generate offense and assist opportunities.

Rondo can't do it against starting caliber guys who are good defenders, but that's not the role we brought him in for either. The reality is that if Garland were to suffer any type of serious injury, this season would be lost, which is a pretty good reason for waiting until the deadline before parting with any type of 1st round pick.

[JonFromVA]

True, but we were playing the 2nd worst team in basketball without their #1 or #2 players. We should have easily been able to get by with a 10-20 point win without Garland.

There is just noooooobody on this team who can create their own shot off the dribble besides Garland/Cedi.

Watching Rondo/Okoro/Stevens/Love/Allen on the floor together was painful. Everyone taking 2 dribbles and stop because none of them can dribble well enough to put a cross over on a guy and beat their man to the bucket for a shot attempt or shoot well enough to keep them honest.

Oh yeah, WHERE IS DYLAN WINDLER. When your 9/31 from 3 and struggling to generate offense it sure would be nice to bring a good shooter off the bench.

The real red flag was Mobley going 1-7 and scoring 4 points in 22 minutes. I hope it's Garland's absence and not the rookie wall we're looking at.

Its a bit of both IMO. He has really lost some steam in the past week or two but having the only player on the team who can generate good looks for him being out certainly didnt help.

This team is so DG dependent its ridiculous

Let's face it, when not getting setup around the rim, Evan takes some fairly tough shots that aren't always going to go in even when he's not defended by someone like Jaxson Hayes who has the length, strength, and athleticism to bother him and it's the second night or a road-home back to back.

I mean, on the season Evan is shooting just 39.1% in the 3-10 range according to BBR and he takes 30% of his shots in that range. From 10-16 he's shooting 45.8%, but he's likely taking more J's in that range.

As for Windler, it seems he had his weekly chance and blew it.

otoh, what about Goodwin who won us this game and presumably did buy himself some more chances? Will Nembhard get another look?

[LivingLegend]

The real red flag was Mobley going 1-7 and scoring 4 points in 22 minutes. I hope it's Garland's absence and not the rookie wall we're looking at.

Its a bit of both IMO. He has really lost some steam in the past week or two but having the only player on the team who can generate good looks for him being out certainly didnt help.

This team is so DG dependent its ridiculous

Let's face it, when not getting setup around the rim, Evan takes some fairly tough shots that aren't always going to go in even when he's not defended by someone like Jaxson Hayes who has the length, strength, and athleticism to bother him and it's the second night or a road-home back to back.

I mean, on the season Evan is shooting just 39.1% in the 3-10 range according to BBR and he takes 30% of his shots in that range. From 10-16 he's shooting 45.8%, but he's likely taking more J's in that range.

As for Windler, it seems he had his weekly chance and blew it.

otoh, what about Goodwin who won us this game and presumably did buy himself some more chances? Will Nembhard get another look?

Given the fact that UDFA G-Leaguers on 2-way contracts get longer leashes than 1st round picks do around here I would say yes, you can probably slate Nembhard in for 20 min next game

[toooskies]

I don't think Rondo is that bad in terms of generating looks. He's still getting a feel for his teammates. He's played 4 or 5 games and last night was his first game with the starters. The Cavs could really use a guy like E. Gordon IMO. Altman has to thread a needle here. A guy who can be a secondary facilitator, help spread the floor, and get his own bucket, is just what the doctor ordered. A guy who will hijack the offense, stop the ball movement, and negatively impacts chemistry, would be a net negative IMO.

Agreed, all I want is a wing player who is capable of beating his man off the dribble for his own shot. Watching Stevens/Okoro try to do that is setting basketball back 15 years.

But Rondo.....man. He cant beat his guy off the dribble anymore either. Like Rubio did, he would beat his man, get into the paint and then dump off, kick out, ect. You cant do any sort of drive/kick or get easy looks for your bigs if you cant beat your guy from the perimeter. I need Rondo to get into the teeth of the defense to generate offense and assist opportunities.

Rondo can't do it against starting caliber guys who are good defenders, but that's not the role we brought him in for either. The reality is that if Garland were to suffer any type of serious injury, this season would be lost, which is a pretty good reason for waiting until the deadline before parting with any type of 1st round pick.

We're pretty much at the deadline. 9 days away. Four games (HOU, CHA, IND, SAS) and Garland might just skip them all with his back issue. But I guess we do get to see Gordon, LeVert, and White (among others) in-person.

[LivingLegend]

Agreed, all I want is a wing player who is capable of beating his man off the dribble for his own shot. Watching Stevens/Okoro try to do that is setting basketball back 15 years.

But Rondo.....man. He cant beat his guy off the dribble anymore either. Like Rubio did, he would beat his man, get into the paint and then dump off, kick out, ect. You cant do any sort of drive/kick or get easy looks for your bigs if you cant beat your guy from the perimeter. I need Rondo to get into the teeth of the defense to generate offense and assist opportunities.

Rondo can't do it against starting caliber guys who are good defenders, but that's not the role we brought him in for either. The reality is that if Garland were to suffer any type of serious injury, this season would be lost, which is a pretty good reason for waiting until the deadline before parting with any type of 1st round pick.

We're pretty much at the deadline. 9 days away. Four games (HOU, CHA, IND, SAS) and Garland might just skip them all with his back issue. But I guess we do get to see Gordon, LeVert, and White (among others) in-person.

White would be a great target if he didnt shoot a worst 3pt% than Isaac Okoro

[toooskies]

Rondo can't do it against starting caliber guys who are good defenders, but that's not the role we brought him in for either. The reality is that if Garland were to suffer any type of serious injury, this season would be lost, which is a pretty good reason for waiting until the deadline before parting with any type of 1st round pick.

We're pretty much at the deadline. 9 days away. Four games (HOU, CHA, IND, SAS) and Garland might just skip them all with his back issue. But I guess we do get to see Gordon, LeVert, and White (among others) in-person.

White would be a great target if he didnt shoot a worst 3pt% than Isaac Okoro

34% on his career, hard to call it a slump though when he's roughly 30% in each month of the year though.

[LivingLegend]

We're pretty much at the deadline. 9 days away. Four games (HOU, CHA, IND, SAS) and Garland might just skip them all with his back issue. But I guess we do get to see Gordon, LeVert, and White (among others) in-person.

White would be a great target if he didnt shoot a worst 3pt% than Isaac Okoro

34% on his career, hard to call it a slump though when he's roughly 30% in each month of the year though.

Ehhh yeah. I view him as a last resort option. Wouldnt mind having him on the team at all, he just wouldnt help solve the main issue for the Cavs and that is a secondary wing option who can open the floor back up from outside and give Mobley/Allen room to work

[believelandbret]

Levert needs to be a Cav ASAP

It is a no risk trade because his contract expires next season. If we do not get Levert I will be very disappointed. He is better than Cedi and Windler at least and from an optimistic perspective can replace most of Sexton's production and can take some pressure off of Garland.

Having Levert AND potentially Sexton in the playoffs would be great. This is a second round team if Levert comes in and produces.

Levert for Rubio straight up
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y533ttu3

[jbk1234]

Levert needs to be a Cav ASAP

It is a no risk trade because his contract expires next season. If we do not get Levert I will be very disappointed. He is better than Cedi and Windler at least and from an optimistic perspective can replace most of Sexton's production and can take some pressure off of Garland.

Having Levert AND potentially Sexton in the playoffs would be great. This is a second round team if Levert comes in and produces.

Levert for Rubio straight up
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y533ttu3

Hardest of passes in terms of ALL of the Cavs offense happening within a 10 foot radius.

[toooskies]

Levert needs to be a Cav ASAP

It is a no risk trade because his contract expires next season. If we do not get Levert I will be very disappointed. He is better than Cedi and Windler at least and from an optimistic perspective can replace most of Sexton's production and can take some pressure off of Garland.

Having Levert AND potentially Sexton in the playoffs would be great. This is a second round team if Levert comes in and produces.

Levert for Rubio straight up
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y533ttu3

Hardest of passes in terms of ALL of the Cavs offense happening within a 10 foot radius.

LeVert takes 55% of his shots outside of 10 feet. Sexton last year was in the 48% range, DG is in the 67% range this year. Eric Gordon only takes 54% of his shots from outside 10 feet, but that's nearly all outside the 3-point arc, almost nothing mid-range unlike LeVert, who's probably above league average from that area (but not quite good enough to make them good shots).

[jbk1234]

Levert needs to be a Cav ASAP

It is a no risk trade because his contract expires next season. If we do not get Levert I will be very disappointed. He is better than Cedi and Windler at least and from an optimistic perspective can replace most of Sexton's production and can take some pressure off of Garland.

Having Levert AND potentially Sexton in the playoffs would be great. This is a second round team if Levert comes in and produces.

Levert for Rubio straight up
http://www.espn.com/nba/tradeMachine?tradeId=y533ttu3

Hardest of passes in terms of ALL of the Cavs offense happening within a 10 foot radius.

LeVert takes 55% of his shots outside of 10 feet. Sexton last year was in the 48% range, DG is in the 67% range this year. Eric Gordon only takes 54% of his shots from outside 10 feet, but that's nearly all outside the 3-point arc, almost nothing mid-range unlike LeVert, who's probably above league average from that area (but not quite good enough to make them good shots).

Ten feet isn't enough spacing with this roster. It simply isn't. I'm skeptical that 15 feet is enough spacing with this roster. The reality is that Sexton took more than 75% of shots inside the three point line. Levert takes 66% of shots from within the three point line.

[jbk1234]

Sounds like the Rockets really want a first for E. Gordon and the Pacers really want a first+ for LeVert (which is just mind boggling to me). Even if we get outbid on Gordon, I'd be perfectly happy if LeVert was still on the Pacers books this summer and we were able to make a run at Warren.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2953006-trade-deadline-intel-wizards-among-nbas-most-active-shoppers-eyeing-sabonis

[tundraknight]

Sounds like the Rockets really want a first for E. Gordon and the Pacers really want a first+ for LeVert (which is just mind boggling to me). Even if we get outbid on Gordon, I'd be perfectly happy if LeVert was still on the Pacers books this summer and we were able to make a run at Warren.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2953006-trade-deadline-intel-wizards-among-nbas-most-active-shoppers-eyeing-sabonis

Yeah those would be the “over pay” type of trades to make if the Cavaliers were a veteran team in win now mode. Like during the Lebron lead Cavs era in his last stint here for example.

And although the Cavs are ahead of schedule in their rebuild and surprised everyone with how well they’ve played up to this point, their main building blocks of Mobley, Garland, and Allen are only 20, 22, and 23 years old respectively. They aren’t even close to their primes yet.

A first for a 33 year old Eric Gordon or multiple first round picks for a 27 year old LeVert seems short sighted.

[JonFromVA]

Sounds like the Rockets really want a first for E. Gordon and the Pacers really want a first+ for LeVert (which is just mind boggling to me). Even if we get outbid on Gordon, I'd be perfectly happy if LeVert was still on the Pacers books this summer and we were able to make a run at Warren.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2953006-trade-deadline-intel-wizards-among-nbas-most-active-shoppers-eyeing-sabonis

Yeah those would be the “over pay” type of trades to make if the Cavaliers were a veteran team in win now mode. Like during the Lebron lead Cavs era in his last stint here for example.

And although the Cavs are ahead of schedule in their rebuild and surprised everyone with how well they’ve played up to this point, their main building blocks of Mobley, Garland, and Allen are only 20, 22, and 23 years old respectively. They aren’t even close to their primes yet.

A first for a 33 year old Eric Gordon or multiple first round picks for a 27 year old LeVert seems short sighted.

We've been on the other side of this fence recently enough with Love and Sexton, and we simply held on to both of them rather than accept significantly less than what we were asking; but the Cavs' decision making wasn't motivated by saving a few million or tanking a few more losses.

So, we shall see ... but Altman is a trade ninja. He's surely working on deals that nobody is talking about, and deals for Gordon or LeVert may be simply backup options if the price happens to fall.

[jbk1234]

Sounds like the Rockets really want a first for E. Gordon and the Pacers really want a first+ for LeVert (which is just mind boggling to me). Even if we get outbid on Gordon, I'd be perfectly happy if LeVert was still on the Pacers books this summer and we were able to make a run at Warren.

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2953006-trade-deadline-intel-wizards-among-nbas-most-active-shoppers-eyeing-sabonis

Yeah those would be the “over pay” type of trades to make if the Cavaliers were a veteran team in win now mode. Like during the Lebron lead Cavs era in his last stint here for example.

And although the Cavs are ahead of schedule in their rebuild and surprised everyone with how well they’ve played up to this point, their main building blocks of Mobley, Garland, and Allen are only 20, 22, and 23 years old respectively. They aren’t even close to their primes yet.

A first for a 33 year old Eric Gordon or multiple first round picks for a 27 year old LeVert seems short sighted.

Starting to talk myself into Rubio and Pangos for J.Rich and Schroder tbh.

[toooskies]

Hardest of passes in terms of ALL of the Cavs offense happening within a 10 foot radius.

LeVert takes 55% of his shots outside of 10 feet. Sexton last year was in the 48% range, DG is in the 67% range this year. Eric Gordon only takes 54% of his shots from outside 10 feet, but that's nearly all outside the 3-point arc, almost nothing mid-range unlike LeVert, who's probably above league average from that area (but not quite good enough to make them good shots).

Ten feet isn't enough spacing with this roster. It simply isn't. I'm skeptical that 15 feet is enough spacing with this roster. The reality is that Sexton took more than 75% of shots inside the three point line. Levert takes 66% of shots from within the three point line.

I'm just saying that LeVert at least needs to be guarded at the 3-point line and is a threat to shoot all through the mid-range. Sexton needs to be guarded at the 3-point line all the way to the hoop. And if either of them would be the primary creator on the team when Garland is off the floor, they need to operate inside the three-point line to open up passes and lobs to Allen and Mobley.

If you want an upgrade/alternative to Cedi, fine, go get Gordon. Or Luke Kennard, who doesn't go anywhere near the rim. But while that is one area this team could see improvement, having a functional playmaker when Garland isn't on the floor is a much bigger priority for this season (even when Garland is healthy) and if we use Rubio and/or Sexton's contracts to make it happen, for the future as well. I don't think Gordon fills that need at all. Trading Rubio's contract makes this a bigger problem in the future unless that guy can distribute the ball.

On the list of assist% of guys who are available for trade, LeVert is at least in the top ten. (Others at the top of the can-pass-and-are-potentially-available list: Westbrook (no), Beal (interesting but no), Dinwiddie (no), Derrick White (maybe but can't shoot), Cory Joseph (maybe but isn't very good), De'Aaron Fox (no), Facundo Campazzo (no), Eric Bledsoe (no), Dennis Schroder (no).

So my preference now is LeVert > Gordon if we make just one move with Rubio's salary-- at least some playmaking is there. I might prefer Derrick White if he can be had for the same price-- better defense and similar shooting. If we got a Cory Joseph type into our DPE first (or for Cedi since that's the roster role being taken by an incoming wing), then I'd probably want Gordon.

Or, we way overpay with draft assets for a young guard on a rookie deal (a 1st for Tre Jones? A 1st and two 2nds for Quickley? Three 1sts for Haliburton?) and just get an Eric Gordon or Harrison Barnes on the wing for Rubio.

[jbk1234]

LeVert takes 55% of his shots outside of 10 feet. Sexton last year was in the 48% range, DG is in the 67% range this year. Eric Gordon only takes 54% of his shots from outside 10 feet, but that's nearly all outside the 3-point arc, almost nothing mid-range unlike LeVert, who's probably above league average from that area (but not quite good enough to make them good shots).

Ten feet isn't enough spacing with this roster. It simply isn't. I'm skeptical that 15 feet is enough spacing with this roster. The reality is that Sexton took more than 75% of shots inside the three point line. Levert takes 66% of shots from within the three point line.

I'm just saying that LeVert at least needs to be guarded at the 3-point line and is a threat to shoot all through the mid-range. Sexton needs to be guarded at the 3-point line all the way to the hoop. And if either of them would be the primary creator on the team when Garland is off the floor, they need to operate inside the three-point line to open up passes and lobs to Allen and Mobley.

If you want an upgrade/alternative to Cedi, fine, go get Gordon. Or Luke Kennard, who doesn't go anywhere near the rim. But while that is one area this team could see improvement, having a functional playmaker when Garland isn't on the floor is a much bigger priority for this season (even when Garland is healthy) and if we use Rubio and/or Sexton's contracts to make it happen, for the future as well. I don't think Gordon fills that need at all. Trading Rubio's contract makes this a bigger problem in the future unless that guy can distribute the ball.

On the list of assist% of guys who are available for trade, LeVert is at least in the top ten. (Others at the top of the can-pass-and-are-potentially-available list: Westbrook (no), Beal (interesting but no), Dinwiddie (no), Derrick White (maybe but can't shoot), Cory Joseph (maybe but isn't very good), De'Aaron Fox (no), Facundo Campazzo (no), Eric Bledsoe (no), Dennis Schroder (no).

So my preference now is LeVert > Gordon if we make just one move with Rubio's salary-- at least some playmaking is there. I might prefer Derrick White if he can be had for the same price-- better defense and similar shooting. If we got a Cory Joseph type into our DPE first (or for Cedi since that's the roster role being taken by an incoming wing), then I'd probably want Gordon.

Or, we way overpay with draft assets for a young guard on a rookie deal (a 1st for Tre Jones? A 1st and two 2nds for Quickley? Three 1sts for Haliburton?) and just get an Eric Gordon or Harrison Barnes on the wing for Rubio.

I don't know where you're getting your shooting numbers from but E. Gordon is a far better shooter than LeVert. He can also handle ball well enough to take pressure off of Garland.