2024-25 Regular Season

[JujitsuFlip]

Other than going into the tax a year early, what does Okoro playing on the Q.O. accomplish? For that matter, what does extending Okoro the Q.O. accomplish that Bird Rights don't as far as a S&T?

I'd at least be having a conversation with his agent about where this is headed if Lauri renegotiates and extends. Unlike you, I think losing out on an opportunity to bring in a guy like Jackson on a minimum hurts.

I'll have to crunch the numbers this evening but if Okoro signs the QO, the Cavs go into the tax?

Assuming we don't shave a few million off of Niang's deal in a trade, we'll be just over.

Ah, yeah, right you are, didn't realize we were that close.

In the new CBA, tax is calculated at the beginning of the season now instead of the end?

[jbk1234]

I'll have to crunch the numbers this evening but if Okoro signs the QO, the Cavs go into the tax?

Assuming we don't shave a few million off of Niang's deal in a trade, we'll be just over.

Ah, yeah, right you are, didn't realize we were that close.

In the new CBA, tax is calculated at the beginning of the season now instead of the end?

That was my understanding but I couldn't seem to get confirmation.

[JujitsuFlip]

Assuming we don't shave a few million off of Niang's deal in a trade, we'll be just over.

Ah, yeah, right you are, didn't realize we were that close.

In the new CBA, tax is calculated at the beginning of the season now instead of the end?

That was my understanding but I couldn't seem to get confirmation.

If it is still the end, it would give us much more time. If it is the beginning, might as well rescind the QO now because Cavs must have at minimum 14 guys on opening night.

[JonFromVA]

Reggie Jackson just agreed to sign with the Sixers on the minimum. Waiting on Okoro is starting to hurt and if Okoro intends on playing on the QO absent a S&T, the Cavs should consider withdrawing it.

I'm fine with missing out on Jackson. We can always drop the QO if a better opportunity than waiting on Isaac comes along.

Other than going into the tax a year early, what does Okoro playing on the Q.O. accomplish? For that matter, what does extending Okoro the Q.O. accomplish that Bird Rights don't as far as a S&T?

I'd at least be having a conversation with his agent about where this is headed if Lauri renegotiates and extends. Unlike you, I think losing out on an opportunity to bring in a guy like Jackson on a minimum hurts.

All depends how Altman reads the market and where things are heading with Isaac; but one possible outcome of retracting the QO is we free up cap space, Reggie Jackson (or maybe someone actually useful) still signs elsewhere and Okoro signs with another team at a price we would have matched because FU cavs.

[jbk1234]

I'm fine with missing out on Jackson. We can always drop the QO if a better opportunity than waiting on Isaac comes along.

Other than going into the tax a year early, what does Okoro playing on the Q.O. accomplish? For that matter, what does extending Okoro the Q.O. accomplish that Bird Rights don't as far as a S&T?

I'd at least be having a conversation with his agent about where this is headed if Lauri renegotiates and extends. Unlike you, I think losing out on an opportunity to bring in a guy like Jackson on a minimum hurts.

All depends how Altman reads the market and where things are heading with Isaac; but one possible outcome of retracting the QO is we free up cap space, Reggie Jackson (or maybe someone actually useful) still signs elsewhere and Okoro signs with another team at a price we would have matched because FU cavs.

I guess none of us know how high the Cavs will go, or what offer sheets might be out there, but it seems to me that if there have already been S&T discussions, the issue is with Okoro not getting the offers he wants. If that's the case, he has plenty of incentive to play on the QO and re-enter the market next summer unrestricted as bad teams attempt to build out in earnest after the 25 draft.

Meanwhile, he'll have veto rights over proposed trades, we'll be in the tax, and next summer he's either leaving or we're overpaying to retain him. I'm not 100% against going into the tax a year early, but for that type of outcome?

[JujitsuFlip]

I'm fine with missing out on Jackson. We can always drop the QO if a better opportunity than waiting on Isaac comes along.

Other than going into the tax a year early, what does Okoro playing on the Q.O. accomplish? For that matter, what does extending Okoro the Q.O. accomplish that Bird Rights don't as far as a S&T?

I'd at least be having a conversation with his agent about where this is headed if Lauri renegotiates and extends. Unlike you, I think losing out on an opportunity to bring in a guy like Jackson on a minimum hurts.

All depends how Altman reads the market and where things are heading with Isaac; but one possible outcome of retracting the QO is we free up cap space, Reggie Jackson (or maybe someone actually useful) still signs elsewhere and Okoro signs with another team at a price we would have matched because FU cavs.

Okoro is not a player you go into the tax for. Okoro on the QO is 100% not a player you go into the tax for.

[JonFromVA]

Other than going into the tax a year early, what does Okoro playing on the Q.O. accomplish? For that matter, what does extending Okoro the Q.O. accomplish that Bird Rights don't as far as a S&T?

I'd at least be having a conversation with his agent about where this is headed if Lauri renegotiates and extends. Unlike you, I think losing out on an opportunity to bring in a guy like Jackson on a minimum hurts.

All depends how Altman reads the market and where things are heading with Isaac; but one possible outcome of retracting the QO is we free up cap space, Reggie Jackson (or maybe someone actually useful) still signs elsewhere and Okoro signs with another team at a price we would have matched because FU cavs.

I guess none of us know how high the Cavs will go, or what offer sheets might be out there, but it seems to me that if there have already been S&T discussions, the issue is with Okoro not getting the offers he wants. If that's the case, he has plenty of incentive to play on the QO and re-enter the market next summer unrestricted as bad teams attempt to build out in earnest after the 25 draft.

Meanwhile, he'll have veto rights over proposed trades, we'll be in the tax, and next summer he's either leaving or we're overpaying to retain him. I'm not 100% against going into the tax a year early, but for that type of outcome?

It's July, there's still a ton of ways things can play out, including Isaac accepting a contract that doesn't put us in the tax.

[JonFromVA]

Other than going into the tax a year early, what does Okoro playing on the Q.O. accomplish? For that matter, what does extending Okoro the Q.O. accomplish that Bird Rights don't as far as a S&T?

I'd at least be having a conversation with his agent about where this is headed if Lauri renegotiates and extends. Unlike you, I think losing out on an opportunity to bring in a guy like Jackson on a minimum hurts.

All depends how Altman reads the market and where things are heading with Isaac; but one possible outcome of retracting the QO is we free up cap space, Reggie Jackson (or maybe someone actually useful) still signs elsewhere and Okoro signs with another team at a price we would have matched because FU cavs.

Okoro is not a player you go into the tax for. Okoro on the QO is 100% not a player you go into the tax for.

All depends when tax payer status is determined, right?

If it's shifted to the start of the season, Isaac could hold out for a bit, and then we could sign him for whatever. If it's still at the end of the season, then technically there's still a lot of time to figure out how to get under the tax.

[toooskies]

Other than going into the tax a year early, what does Okoro playing on the Q.O. accomplish? For that matter, what does extending Okoro the Q.O. accomplish that Bird Rights don't as far as a S&T?

I'd at least be having a conversation with his agent about where this is headed if Lauri renegotiates and extends. Unlike you, I think losing out on an opportunity to bring in a guy like Jackson on a minimum hurts.

All depends how Altman reads the market and where things are heading with Isaac; but one possible outcome of retracting the QO is we free up cap space, Reggie Jackson (or maybe someone actually useful) still signs elsewhere and Okoro signs with another team at a price we would have matched because FU cavs.

Okoro is not a player you go into the tax for. Okoro on the QO is 100% not a player you go into the tax for.

First: Reggie Jackson has been a negative VORP player for three years in a row. I don't know why he's all of a sudden a player we really missed out on to jbk, but he might literally have been our 6th string PG behind Garland, Mitchell, LeVert, Jerome, and CPJ. (Maybe he makes 4th string if he has a good camp?)

Second: I don't think Okoro keeps the Cavs from offering minimums. He might keep us from offering the tax MLE (or non-tax MLE if Okoro leaves for nothing), but I see Okoro as a better player than everybody out there. But also, the Cavs almost certainly have a contingency to dump salary if Okoro takes them into the tax, if they care about the tax at all. (The dollar value of the repeater tax has less bite when your national TV income is about to double; draft penalties only kick in at the 2nd apron, which we will not surpass this year.)

Third, for most of the UFAs out there, it's not about the money. For the older vets who have something left and the young guys who are looking for prove-it contracts, they want rotation spots. Dinwiddie has a chance to play in Dallas. Jackson is going to get rotation minutes in Philly, particularly if McCain isn't ready to play in the NBA. Trent is likely to start in Milwaukee. The only conceivable rotation spot we can promise anybody is if Atkinson goes with a very deep rotation and squeezes one more guy into the 3/4/5 rotation, or if we dump Niang.

The Cavs obviously want to tweak their roster, but there isn't a guy out there who's definitely in our rotation that would sign for a minimum. They're Damian Jones/Ty Jerome/Tristan Thompson-level depth pieces. I'd like to have Robert Covington in the Marcus Morris role. Healthy Gordon Hayward is an interesting play when we need more height at the 3. Can't say they wouldn't be on the bench come playoff time, though. So they'll wait to see if they can get that in Philly or elsewhere before being just a depth piece.

[JujitsuFlip]

All depends how Altman reads the market and where things are heading with Isaac; but one possible outcome of retracting the QO is we free up cap space, Reggie Jackson (or maybe someone actually useful) still signs elsewhere and Okoro signs with another team at a price we would have matched because FU cavs.

Okoro is not a player you go into the tax for. Okoro on the QO is 100% not a player you go into the tax for.

First: Reggie Jackson has been a negative VORP player for three years in a row. I don't know why he's all of a sudden a player we really missed out on to jbk, but he might literally have been our 6th string PG behind Garland, Mitchell, LeVert, Jerome, and CPJ. (Maybe he makes 4th string if he has a good camp?)

Second: I don't think Okoro keeps the Cavs from offering minimums. He might keep us from offering the tax MLE (or non-tax MLE if Okoro leaves for nothing), but I see Okoro as a better player than everybody out there. But also, the Cavs almost certainly have a contingency to dump salary if Okoro takes them into the tax, if they care about the tax at all. (The dollar value of the repeater tax has less bite when your national TV income is about to double; draft penalties only kick in at the 2nd apron, which we will not surpass this year.)

Third, for most of the UFAs out there, it's not about the money. For the older vets who have something left and the young guys who are looking for prove-it contracts, they want rotation spots. Dinwiddie has a chance to play in Dallas. Jackson is going to get rotation minutes in Philly, particularly if McCain isn't ready to play in the NBA. Trent is likely to start in Milwaukee. The only conceivable rotation spot we can promise anybody is if Atkinson goes with a very deep rotation and squeezes one more guy into the 3/4/5 rotation, or if we dump Niang.

The Cavs obviously want to tweak their roster, but there isn't a guy out there who's definitely in our rotation that would sign for a minimum. They're Damian Jones/Ty Jerome/Tristan Thompson-level depth pieces. I'd like to have Robert Covington in the Marcus Morris role. Healthy Gordon Hayward is an interesting play when we need more height at the 3. Can't say they wouldn't be on the bench come playoff time, though. So they'll wait to see if they can get that in Philly or elsewhere before being just a depth piece.

1. Idc about Reggie Jackson specifically either.

2. Okoro in theory doesn't prevent us from doing anything but if the Cavs sign a vet min guy, that is just more salary they have to cut/dump. I think cutting Merrill may get the Cavs there but they still have to find a way to get to 14 guys by opening night.

3. I mean it is almost August, so of course all the worthwhile FA are gone. Hoopsyhype ranks Okoro #2 when it comes to current available FA.

The Cavs signed zero outside guys and made zero trades around the fringes of the roster, so idk how much I agree with the mindset that they want to tweak their roster.

[JujitsuFlip]

All depends how Altman reads the market and where things are heading with Isaac; but one possible outcome of retracting the QO is we free up cap space, Reggie Jackson (or maybe someone actually useful) still signs elsewhere and Okoro signs with another team at a price we would have matched because FU cavs.

Okoro is not a player you go into the tax for. Okoro on the QO is 100% not a player you go into the tax for.

All depends when tax payer status is determined, right?

If it's shifted to the start of the season, Isaac could hold out for a bit, and then we could sign him for whatever. If it's still at the end of the season, then technically there's still a lot of time to figure out how to get under the tax.

Yeah, i can't find anything on when it is calculated. If it is still the end of the regular season, then I'm fine with figuring it out between now and the trade deadline.

[toooskies]

Okoro is not a player you go into the tax for. Okoro on the QO is 100% not a player you go into the tax for.

First: Reggie Jackson has been a negative VORP player for three years in a row. I don't know why he's all of a sudden a player we really missed out on to jbk, but he might literally have been our 6th string PG behind Garland, Mitchell, LeVert, Jerome, and CPJ. (Maybe he makes 4th string if he has a good camp?)

Second: I don't think Okoro keeps the Cavs from offering minimums. He might keep us from offering the tax MLE (or non-tax MLE if Okoro leaves for nothing), but I see Okoro as a better player than everybody out there. But also, the Cavs almost certainly have a contingency to dump salary if Okoro takes them into the tax, if they care about the tax at all. (The dollar value of the repeater tax has less bite when your national TV income is about to double; draft penalties only kick in at the 2nd apron, which we will not surpass this year.)

Third, for most of the UFAs out there, it's not about the money. For the older vets who have something left and the young guys who are looking for prove-it contracts, they want rotation spots. Dinwiddie has a chance to play in Dallas. Jackson is going to get rotation minutes in Philly, particularly if McCain isn't ready to play in the NBA. Trent is likely to start in Milwaukee. The only conceivable rotation spot we can promise anybody is if Atkinson goes with a very deep rotation and squeezes one more guy into the 3/4/5 rotation, or if we dump Niang.

The Cavs obviously want to tweak their roster, but there isn't a guy out there who's definitely in our rotation that would sign for a minimum. They're Damian Jones/Ty Jerome/Tristan Thompson-level depth pieces. I'd like to have Robert Covington in the Marcus Morris role. Healthy Gordon Hayward is an interesting play when we need more height at the 3. Can't say they wouldn't be on the bench come playoff time, though. So they'll wait to see if they can get that in Philly or elsewhere before being just a depth piece.

1. Idc about Reggie Jackson specifically either.

2. Okoro in theory doesn't prevent us from doing anything but if the Cavs sign a vet min guy, that is just more salary they have to cut/dump. I think cutting Merrill may get the Cavs there but they still have to find a way to get to 14 guys by opening night.

3. I mean it is almost August, so of course all the worthwhile FA are gone. Hoopsyhype ranks Okoro #2 when it comes to current available FA.

The Cavs signed zero outside guys and made zero trades around the fringes of the roster, so idk how much I agree with the mindset that they want to tweak their roster.

Tyson's a tweak. Okoro possibly being exchanged would be a tweak. We may change Morris and Thompson as our depth guys at the 4/5-- tweak. If we fill the end of the roster with rookies (i.e. Travers), tweak.

But this year is about continuity.

[jbk1234]

All depends how Altman reads the market and where things are heading with Isaac; but one possible outcome of retracting the QO is we free up cap space, Reggie Jackson (or maybe someone actually useful) still signs elsewhere and Okoro signs with another team at a price we would have matched because FU cavs.

Okoro is not a player you go into the tax for. Okoro on the QO is 100% not a player you go into the tax for.

First: Reggie Jackson has been a negative VORP player for three years in a row. I don't know why he's all of a sudden a player we really missed out on to jbk, but he might literally have been our 6th string PG behind Garland, Mitchell, LeVert, Jerome, and CPJ. (Maybe he makes 4th string if he has a good camp?)

Second: I don't think Okoro keeps the Cavs from offering minimums. He might keep us from offering the tax MLE (or non-tax MLE if Okoro leaves for nothing), but I see Okoro as a better player than everybody out there. But also, the Cavs almost certainly have a contingency to dump salary if Okoro takes them into the tax, if they care about the tax at all. (The dollar value of the repeater tax has less bite when your national TV income is about to double; draft penalties only kick in at the 2nd apron, which we will not surpass this year.)

Third, for most of the UFAs out there, it's not about the money. For the older vets who have something left and the young guys who are looking for prove-it contracts, they want rotation spots. Dinwiddie has a chance to play in Dallas. Jackson is going to get rotation minutes in Philly, particularly if McCain isn't ready to play in the NBA. Trent is likely to start in Milwaukee. The only conceivable rotation spot we can promise anybody is if Atkinson goes with a very deep rotation and squeezes one more guy into the 3/4/5 rotation, or if we dump Niang.

The Cavs obviously want to tweak their roster, but there isn't a guy out there who's definitely in our rotation that would sign for a minimum. They're Damian Jones/Ty Jerome/Tristan Thompson-level depth pieces. I'd like to have Robert Covington in the Marcus Morris role. Healthy Gordon Hayward is an interesting play when we need more height at the 3. Can't say they wouldn't be on the bench come playoff time, though. So they'll wait to see if they can get that in Philly or elsewhere before being just a depth piece.

Reggie Jackson played 52 minutes against the Lakers in 23 and 66 minutes against the Wolves and 24 - for the defending champs. The idea that Ty Jerome who was signed as a 3rd string PG, or CPJ, who has yet to show he can stay on the floor, for any amount of time, against playoff teams would get minutes over Jack'son is a real stretch. Obviously, it's not just him though.

Our ability to engage in Niang trades with Okoro on the Q.O. is limited to cap savings or going even deeper into the tax. But beyond that, what is the hoped for outcome if Okoro does play on the QO because he's angry about his market? Where is he on the depth chart this season? He's in a contract year. If he ends up behind Strus, LeVert, and possibly Tyson towards the end of the season, how does he react?

I mean what does Okoro, or his agent consider a fair offer, and is there a team that agrees with assessment this summer? I see a certain logic in waiting for the Lauri/Jazz shoe to drop, but if it looks like Okoro is just going to sign the Q.O. and try again next summer, then what are we really doing?

[toooskies]

Okoro is not a player you go into the tax for. Okoro on the QO is 100% not a player you go into the tax for.

First: Reggie Jackson has been a negative VORP player for three years in a row. I don't know why he's all of a sudden a player we really missed out on to jbk, but he might literally have been our 6th string PG behind Garland, Mitchell, LeVert, Jerome, and CPJ. (Maybe he makes 4th string if he has a good camp?)

Second: I don't think Okoro keeps the Cavs from offering minimums. He might keep us from offering the tax MLE (or non-tax MLE if Okoro leaves for nothing), but I see Okoro as a better player than everybody out there. But also, the Cavs almost certainly have a contingency to dump salary if Okoro takes them into the tax, if they care about the tax at all. (The dollar value of the repeater tax has less bite when your national TV income is about to double; draft penalties only kick in at the 2nd apron, which we will not surpass this year.)

Third, for most of the UFAs out there, it's not about the money. For the older vets who have something left and the young guys who are looking for prove-it contracts, they want rotation spots. Dinwiddie has a chance to play in Dallas. Jackson is going to get rotation minutes in Philly, particularly if McCain isn't ready to play in the NBA. Trent is likely to start in Milwaukee. The only conceivable rotation spot we can promise anybody is if Atkinson goes with a very deep rotation and squeezes one more guy into the 3/4/5 rotation, or if we dump Niang.

The Cavs obviously want to tweak their roster, but there isn't a guy out there who's definitely in our rotation that would sign for a minimum. They're Damian Jones/Ty Jerome/Tristan Thompson-level depth pieces. I'd like to have Robert Covington in the Marcus Morris role. Healthy Gordon Hayward is an interesting play when we need more height at the 3. Can't say they wouldn't be on the bench come playoff time, though. So they'll wait to see if they can get that in Philly or elsewhere before being just a depth piece.

Reggie Jackson played 52 minutes against the Lakers in 23 and 66 minutes against the Wolves and 24 - for the defending champs. The idea that Ty Jerome who was signed as a 3rd string PG, or CPJ, who has yet to show he can stay on the floor, for any amount of time, against playoff teams would get minutes over Jack'son is a real stretch. Obviously, it's not just him though.

Our ability to engage in Niang trades with Okoro on the Q.O. is limited to cap savings or going even deeper into the tax. But beyond that, what is the hoped for outcome if Okoro does play on the QO because he's angry about his market? Where is he on the depth chart this season? He's in a contract year. If he ends up behind Strus, LeVert, and possibly Tyson towards the end of the season, how does he react?

I mean what does Okoro, or his agent consider a fair offer, and is there a team that agrees with assessment this summer? I see a certain logic in waiting for the Lauri/Jazz shoe to drop, but if it looks like Okoro is just going to sign the Q.O. and try again next summer, then what are we really doing?

Reggie Jackson posted a -7.0 BPM in the playoffs this year. Negative win shares. Negative VORP. 43% TS. The dude wasn't good! Denver paid to not have him on the roster this year! For me it's actually a positive for the Cavs that Philly thinks he solves their problems in any way, shape, or form.

If we pay Okoro this year, we accomplish having another playable guy available for our rotation. Literally started 7 playoff games for us this year. Will be the best point-of-attack defender on the team. We also retain Bird rights next year to play this scenario out again if we want. We keep him off a team like Milwaukee or Philly who might sign him to a prove-it minimum deal this year with a promise of heavy rotation minutes. We see if he can develop his shot volume.

[JonFromVA]

Okoro is not a player you go into the tax for. Okoro on the QO is 100% not a player you go into the tax for.

First: Reggie Jackson has been a negative VORP player for three years in a row. I don't know why he's all of a sudden a player we really missed out on to jbk, but he might literally have been our 6th string PG behind Garland, Mitchell, LeVert, Jerome, and CPJ. (Maybe he makes 4th string if he has a good camp?)

Second: I don't think Okoro keeps the Cavs from offering minimums. He might keep us from offering the tax MLE (or non-tax MLE if Okoro leaves for nothing), but I see Okoro as a better player than everybody out there. But also, the Cavs almost certainly have a contingency to dump salary if Okoro takes them into the tax, if they care about the tax at all. (The dollar value of the repeater tax has less bite when your national TV income is about to double; draft penalties only kick in at the 2nd apron, which we will not surpass this year.)

Third, for most of the UFAs out there, it's not about the money. For the older vets who have something left and the young guys who are looking for prove-it contracts, they want rotation spots. Dinwiddie has a chance to play in Dallas. Jackson is going to get rotation minutes in Philly, particularly if McCain isn't ready to play in the NBA. Trent is likely to start in Milwaukee. The only conceivable rotation spot we can promise anybody is if Atkinson goes with a very deep rotation and squeezes one more guy into the 3/4/5 rotation, or if we dump Niang.

The Cavs obviously want to tweak their roster, but there isn't a guy out there who's definitely in our rotation that would sign for a minimum. They're Damian Jones/Ty Jerome/Tristan Thompson-level depth pieces. I'd like to have Robert Covington in the Marcus Morris role. Healthy Gordon Hayward is an interesting play when we need more height at the 3. Can't say they wouldn't be on the bench come playoff time, though. So they'll wait to see if they can get that in Philly or elsewhere before being just a depth piece.

1. Idc about Reggie Jackson specifically either.

2. Okoro in theory doesn't prevent us from doing anything but if the Cavs sign a vet min guy, that is just more salary they have to cut/dump. I think cutting Merrill may get the Cavs there but they still have to find a way to get to 14 guys by opening night.

3. I mean it is almost August, so of course all the worthwhile FA are gone. Hoopsyhype ranks Okoro #2 when it comes to current available FA.

The Cavs signed zero outside guys and made zero trades around the fringes of the roster, so idk how much I agree with the mindset that they want to tweak their roster.

The Cavs have often been in the situation where they have very little agency in the off-season to make something they want happen, but that doesn't mean if things break just so, that we can't pull something off.

Wild guess, but I'd say it's something like a 1 in 4 chance we're able to do something more interesting than signing a g-leaguer or a vet min for the 14th roster spot.

One of the best things Kenny Atkinson could do for this team is make our roster look better so we'd actually have some leverage in trades.

[jbk1234]

First: Reggie Jackson has been a negative VORP player for three years in a row. I don't know why he's all of a sudden a player we really missed out on to jbk, but he might literally have been our 6th string PG behind Garland, Mitchell, LeVert, Jerome, and CPJ. (Maybe he makes 4th string if he has a good camp?)

Second: I don't think Okoro keeps the Cavs from offering minimums. He might keep us from offering the tax MLE (or non-tax MLE if Okoro leaves for nothing), but I see Okoro as a better player than everybody out there. But also, the Cavs almost certainly have a contingency to dump salary if Okoro takes them into the tax, if they care about the tax at all. (The dollar value of the repeater tax has less bite when your national TV income is about to double; draft penalties only kick in at the 2nd apron, which we will not surpass this year.)

Third, for most of the UFAs out there, it's not about the money. For the older vets who have something left and the young guys who are looking for prove-it contracts, they want rotation spots. Dinwiddie has a chance to play in Dallas. Jackson is going to get rotation minutes in Philly, particularly if McCain isn't ready to play in the NBA. Trent is likely to start in Milwaukee. The only conceivable rotation spot we can promise anybody is if Atkinson goes with a very deep rotation and squeezes one more guy into the 3/4/5 rotation, or if we dump Niang.

The Cavs obviously want to tweak their roster, but there isn't a guy out there who's definitely in our rotation that would sign for a minimum. They're Damian Jones/Ty Jerome/Tristan Thompson-level depth pieces. I'd like to have Robert Covington in the Marcus Morris role. Healthy Gordon Hayward is an interesting play when we need more height at the 3. Can't say they wouldn't be on the bench come playoff time, though. So they'll wait to see if they can get that in Philly or elsewhere before being just a depth piece.

Reggie Jackson played 52 minutes against the Lakers in 23 and 66 minutes against the Wolves and 24 - for the defending champs. The idea that Ty Jerome who was signed as a 3rd string PG, or CPJ, who has yet to show he can stay on the floor, for any amount of time, against playoff teams would get minutes over Jack'son is a real stretch. Obviously, it's not just him though.

Our ability to engage in Niang trades with Okoro on the Q.O. is limited to cap savings or going even deeper into the tax. But beyond that, what is the hoped for outcome if Okoro does play on the QO because he's angry about his market? Where is he on the depth chart this season? He's in a contract year. If he ends up behind Strus, LeVert, and possibly Tyson towards the end of the season, how does he react?

I mean what does Okoro, or his agent consider a fair offer, and is there a team that agrees with assessment this summer? I see a certain logic in waiting for the Lauri/Jazz shoe to drop, but if it looks like Okoro is just going to sign the Q.O. and try again next summer, then what are we really doing?

Reggie Jackson posted a -7.0 BPM in the playoffs this year. Negative win shares. Negative VORP. 43% TS. The dude wasn't good! Denver paid to not have him on the roster this year! For me it's actually a positive for the Cavs that Philly thinks he solves their problems in any way, shape, or form.

If we pay Okoro this year, we accomplish having another playable guy available for our rotation. Literally started 7 playoff games for us this year. Will be the best point-of-attack defender on the team. We also retain Bird rights next year to play this scenario out again if we want. We keep him off a team like Milwaukee or Philly who might sign him to a prove-it minimum deal this year with a promise of heavy rotation minutes. We see if he can develop his shot volume.

How many of those 7 games, where there was only one big on the floor, did the Cavs win? Again, what is the hoped-for outcome here? If it's a contract that Okoro is disinclined to sign this summer, with us or anyone else, then what's the benefit of retaining him on the Q.O.?

If your answer is a defensive specialist who can give us minutes in the playoffs, I guess I wonder how many minutes he's going to get, and whether we wouldn't be better off with a cheaper player filling that role who wouldn't put us through this again next summer.

The Mavs made it to the NBA Finals, but elected to let DJJ walk because it's really hard to beat a team like the Celtics playing 4 on 5 offensively, even with Luka and Kyrie. DJJ ended up signing with the Clippers for $9M per. Okogie signed for $8M per with the Suns. The Blazers are still trying to sell Thybulle as a trade asset at $11M per. All three of those players make less than what the Cavs will be obligated to pay Okoro on the QO.

I'm not even sure what would qualify as a good contract from the Cavs perspective. Even at 4 years $50M, he's at or above market the first two seasons. At 4 years $60M, he's above market for at least the first 3 years.

If Okoro wants to play for the league minimum on a prove-it deal, best of luck to him. At a certain point, you have to do what's rational from the team's perspective even if the player won't.

[toooskies]

Reggie Jackson played 52 minutes against the Lakers in 23 and 66 minutes against the Wolves and 24 - for the defending champs. The idea that Ty Jerome who was signed as a 3rd string PG, or CPJ, who has yet to show he can stay on the floor, for any amount of time, against playoff teams would get minutes over Jack'son is a real stretch. Obviously, it's not just him though.

Our ability to engage in Niang trades with Okoro on the Q.O. is limited to cap savings or going even deeper into the tax. But beyond that, what is the hoped for outcome if Okoro does play on the QO because he's angry about his market? Where is he on the depth chart this season? He's in a contract year. If he ends up behind Strus, LeVert, and possibly Tyson towards the end of the season, how does he react?

I mean what does Okoro, or his agent consider a fair offer, and is there a team that agrees with assessment this summer? I see a certain logic in waiting for the Lauri/Jazz shoe to drop, but if it looks like Okoro is just going to sign the Q.O. and try again next summer, then what are we really doing?

Reggie Jackson posted a -7.0 BPM in the playoffs this year. Negative win shares. Negative VORP. 43% TS. The dude wasn't good! Denver paid to not have him on the roster this year! For me it's actually a positive for the Cavs that Philly thinks he solves their problems in any way, shape, or form.

If we pay Okoro this year, we accomplish having another playable guy available for our rotation. Literally started 7 playoff games for us this year. Will be the best point-of-attack defender on the team. We also retain Bird rights next year to play this scenario out again if we want. We keep him off a team like Milwaukee or Philly who might sign him to a prove-it minimum deal this year with a promise of heavy rotation minutes. We see if he can develop his shot volume.

How many of those 7 games, where there was only one big on the floor, did the Cavs win? Again, what is the hoped-for outcome here? If it's a contract that Okoro is disinclined to sign this summer, with us or anyone else, then what's the benefit of retaining him on the Q.O.?

If your answer is a defensive specialist who can give us minutes in the playoffs, I guess I wonder how many minutes he's going to get, and whether we wouldn't be better off with a cheaper player filling that role who wouldn't put us through this again next summer.

The Mavs made it to the NBA Finals, but elected to let DJJ walk because it's really hard to beat a team like the Celtics playing 4 on 5 offensively, even with Luka and Kyrie. DJJ ended up signing with the Clippers for $9M per. Okogie signed for $8M per with the Suns. The Blazers are still trying to sell Thybulle as a trade asset at $11M per. All three of those players make less than what the Cavs will be obligated to pay Okoro on the QO.

I'm not even sure what would qualify as a good contract from the Cavs perspective. Even at 4 years $50M, he's at or above market the first two seasons. At 4 years $60M, he's above market for at least the first 3 years.

If Okoro wants to play for the league minimum on a prove-it deal, best of luck to him. At a certain point, you have to do what's rational from the team's perspective even if the player won't.

The Cavs were 3-4 with Okoro starting. 2-0 against the Magic.

Just because you came up with a train of thought doesn't mean it's the only rational option.

Okoro on a 2 or 3-year deal makes sense. You see if a new coach or more time help him hone his role. You have the option to part with him before the second apron tax gets oppressive.

A sign and trade makes sense too, particularly if you think we need more help at the 4 or the 5 than the 2 and the 3.

[JujitsuFlip]

First: Reggie Jackson has been a negative VORP player for three years in a row. I don't know why he's all of a sudden a player we really missed out on to jbk, but he might literally have been our 6th string PG behind Garland, Mitchell, LeVert, Jerome, and CPJ. (Maybe he makes 4th string if he has a good camp?)

Second: I don't think Okoro keeps the Cavs from offering minimums. He might keep us from offering the tax MLE (or non-tax MLE if Okoro leaves for nothing), but I see Okoro as a better player than everybody out there. But also, the Cavs almost certainly have a contingency to dump salary if Okoro takes them into the tax, if they care about the tax at all. (The dollar value of the repeater tax has less bite when your national TV income is about to double; draft penalties only kick in at the 2nd apron, which we will not surpass this year.)

Third, for most of the UFAs out there, it's not about the money. For the older vets who have something left and the young guys who are looking for prove-it contracts, they want rotation spots. Dinwiddie has a chance to play in Dallas. Jackson is going to get rotation minutes in Philly, particularly if McCain isn't ready to play in the NBA. Trent is likely to start in Milwaukee. The only conceivable rotation spot we can promise anybody is if Atkinson goes with a very deep rotation and squeezes one more guy into the 3/4/5 rotation, or if we dump Niang.

The Cavs obviously want to tweak their roster, but there isn't a guy out there who's definitely in our rotation that would sign for a minimum. They're Damian Jones/Ty Jerome/Tristan Thompson-level depth pieces. I'd like to have Robert Covington in the Marcus Morris role. Healthy Gordon Hayward is an interesting play when we need more height at the 3. Can't say they wouldn't be on the bench come playoff time, though. So they'll wait to see if they can get that in Philly or elsewhere before being just a depth piece.

1. Idc about Reggie Jackson specifically either.

2. Okoro in theory doesn't prevent us from doing anything but if the Cavs sign a vet min guy, that is just more salary they have to cut/dump. I think cutting Merrill may get the Cavs there but they still have to find a way to get to 14 guys by opening night.

3. I mean it is almost August, so of course all the worthwhile FA are gone. Hoopsyhype ranks Okoro #2 when it comes to current available FA.

The Cavs signed zero outside guys and made zero trades around the fringes of the roster, so idk how much I agree with the mindset that they want to tweak their roster.

Tyson's a tweak. Okoro possibly being exchanged would be a tweak. We may change Morris and Thompson as our depth guys at the 4/5-- tweak. If we fill the end of the roster with rookies (i.e. Travers), tweak.

But this year is about continuity.

Tyson is not a tweak, he's a rookie who played 3 years in college on 3 different teams. The alternative was trading the pick. Speaking of trading picks, our GM Gansey was confident we would trade back into the draft and never did.

TT was outta the league before the Cavs and is currently out of the league, Morris isn't far behind him. Guys retire, it happens.

Travers isn't ready to come over from everything everyone said here.

[JonFromVA]

Seems we try to trade back or up in to the draft most years; but without loose assets - easier said than done. Nothing wrong with kicking tires, though.

[toooskies]

Fedor reported that the Cavs' offer to Okoro is 3-4 years at $8-10m per year.