Trade Ideas - Part 2

mcfly1204 · Post #501 » by **mcfly1204** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 5:08 pm

The premise is severely flawed with the acquisition of Jack and the drafting of McLemore, you now have Waiters and McLemore splitting minutes at the 2, and virtually no minutes available for Waiters at the 1. I question McLemore's ability to defend SFs, and if we really wanted to draft another SG, I would go after Oladipo.

minimus · Post #502 » by **minimus** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 6:26 pm

I am afraid that Waiters playmaking ability is overrated. He can be very good 6th scorer (see Ginobili) but:
1) he's young, inconsistent, had injuries. He can create for others, but I think that they should free him from PG duties, let him be creative.
2) Irving is injure prone, you can't play him for 35 minutes every night, especially against bigger and stronger guys. Kyrie has killer instinct, but you need veteran alongside to backup, do dirty work.
3) Even if Cavs draft another wing, he will be rookie who needs time to develop
4) Livingston is very good player, but nothing special, has no 3pt shot at all.

So basically Cavs don't have veteran to help young players at PG, SG, when Kyrie is out. They lack leadership behind Irving.

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gflem · Post #503 » by **gflem** » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:23 pm

Wayne Ellington played quite well for us after the trade last year, I thought he was a pleasant surprise. Waiters I think will be fine in a limited role as PG/Primary ball handler. I really like Jack though I don't think there is a place for him here. He needs to go to a contender and be their 3rd guard, I think that is where he would be most effective.

minimus · Post #504 » by **minimus** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 3:59 am

I like how Ellington consistently shoot as well. Hope continues to develop mid range game, uses more floaters.

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tidho · Post #505 » by **tidho** » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:45 pm

If we keep Livingston, then the need for another point guard simply disappers.

Irving, Waiters, Livingson, Ellington.
The first three can play both spots - plenty of versatility.

Two are phenominal 3pt shooters. The only think missing is a defensive stopper.
To McFly's point, if you're taking a SG at the top Oladipo is a better fit than McLemore and more likely to be able to spend some time at SF.

minimus · Post #506 » by **minimus** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 4:55 am

Do you see Dorell Wright or Francisco Garcia as options at SF?

BossHoggin · Post #507 » by **BossHoggin** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 5:42 am

minimus wrote:Do you see Dorell Wright or Francisco Garcia as options at SF?

if we plan on drafting Andrew Wiggins

minimus · Post #508 » by **minimus** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:37 am

BossHoggin wrote:if we plan on drafting Andrew Wiggins

I'm affraid Irving won't resign if Cavs aren't unable to surround him with talent. Waiting for another 2-3 year? IMO it isn't good way.

tidho wrote:If we keep Livingston, then the need for another point guard simply disappers.
Irving, Waiters, Livingson, Ellington.
The first three can play both spots - plenty of versatility.
Two are phenominal 3pt shooters. The only think missing is a defensive stopper.
To McFly's point, if you're taking a SG at the top Oladipo is a better fit than McLemore and more likely to be able to spend some time at SF.

I agree that probably Nate Robinson, Jarret Jack can be too expensive. Still have doubts:
1) Waiters is too inconsistent, Cavs don't have enough team identity to cover his PG weakness as Spurs do with disciplined veterans when they play without Tony Parker or when Tony plays off the ball
2) Livingston is very limited in offense, so spacing and ball movement can suffer. Although I like him running the point and defending opp. PG
3) Ellington isn't starting SG. Is more Gary Neal type. It isn't issue since Cavs have Waiters/Ellington.

Assuming this, Cavs need good shooters at starting SF and backup PG positions. They can draft Otto Porter and sign backup PG. They can even sign starting SF, backup PG and draft bigman with upside (Alex Len). It depends on Vaj recovery, without him Cavs will be the bad defensive team in NBA. I think that defensive deficiencies are more important that subpar shooting.

P.S. I do belive that Irving heroics misled fans about Cavs offense. I'd prefer fluid ball movement leading to ordinary shot in three possesion to three monster dunks or spectacular 3pt.

mcfly1204 · Post #509 » by **mcfly1204** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 2:03 pm

Waiters is too inconsistent? You must have terribly high expectations for rookies.

Niko23 · Post #510 » by **Niko23** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 3:12 pm

Wade, Rose, Westbrook, and Harden all had low FG% and inconsistency issues in their rookie years.

minimus · Post #511 » by **minimus** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 6:29 pm

Okay, I'm just trying to say that I don't see Waiters as backup PG even for limited minutes. I think it's too much to carry for him. If Cavs want be in playoff zone it would be better to find good backup PG and starting SF.

Mr Loggins · Post #512 » by **Mr Loggins** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 7:57 pm

minimus wrote:I'm affraid Irving won't resign if Cavs aren't unable to surround him with talent. Waiting for another 2-3 year? IMO it isn't good way.

I hate this line of thinking - its just plain wrong.

Did Wade leave Miami when they tanked for years setting up for 2010?

If the Cavs make the right moves and are ready to compete in 2016, no way Kyrie leaves because they were bad in 2014

kbdiggity · Post #513 » by **kbdiggity** » Wed Jun 12, 2013 11:12 pm

BosBorgon wrote:
minimus wrote:I'm affraid Irving won't resign if Cavs aren't unable to surround him with talent. Waiting for another 2-3 year? IMO it isn't good way.

I hate this line of thinking - its just plain wrong.

Did Wade leave Miami when they tanked for years setting up for 2010?

If the Cavs make the right moves and are ready to compete in 2016, no way Kyrie leaves because they were bad in 2014

You need to get your facts straight. The Miami Heat have only tanked one year in Wade's entire career. He was drafted in 2003, and they have made the playoffs AND had a winning record every season except '07-'08.

You'd be hard pressed to convince many people to move away from Miami, especially when they've gone to playoffs nearly every year of their career. It probably wouldn't take much to convince someone to move away from Cleveland when their whole career has been full of losing records.

Niko23 · Post #514 » by **Niko23** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:00 am

How could Wade leave all the sex parties in Miami too??

gflem · Post #515 » by **gflem** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:32 am

kbdiggity wrote:
BosBorgon wrote:
minimus wrote:I'm affraid Irving won't resign if Cavs aren't unable to surround him with talent. Waiting for another 2-3 year? IMO it isn't good way.

I hate this line of thinking - its just plain wrong.

Did Wade leave Miami when they tanked for years setting up for 2010?

If the Cavs make the right moves and are ready to compete in 2016, no way Kyrie leaves because they were bad in 2014

You need to get your facts straight. The Miami Heat have only tanked one year in Wade's entire career. He was drafted in 2003, and they have made the playoffs AND had a winning record every season except '07-'08.

You'd be hard pressed to convince many people to move away from Miami, especially when they've gone to playoffs nearly every year of their career. It probably wouldn't take much to convince someone to move away from Cleveland when their whole career has been full of losing records.

Uh, yeah, we are aware that Cleveland isn't a popular destination due to weather, the tax situation in Ohio, and lack of a party scene/atmosphere of a NY/LA/South Beach. This is why most of us are done with the whole tank for next years pick thing. To varying degrees I have seen several posters here say that it is time to start winning to keep Kyrie's interest. Tbh, if he is more interested in the party scene I don't see how we keep him past his first extension, regardless of the team in place.
However, if we have a good foundation, he is close with his teammates and he isn't looking for the "sex parties" scene I think Cleveland would be just fine for him, unlike our last superstar talent. For me, I just want to see a competitive team that has a chance at playing some playoff games.

minimus · Post #516 » by **minimus** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:03 am

gflem wrote:For me, I just want to see a competitive team that has a chance at playing some playoff games.

So do I. I like GSW playoff run this year. Cavs can be in similar situation next season:
1) often injured bigman: Bogut ---> Vaj
2) promising young SG: Thompson ---> Waiters
3) All Star level PG: Curry ---> Irving
4) blue collar PF: Lee ---> Thompson
5) solid SF: Barnes ---> ???
6) veterans and steady support from the bench players: Jack + Landry ---> ???
7) versatile wing player, good defender: D.Green ---> ???

I'd try to recruit player from this list: Will Bynum, Eric Maynor, Nate Robinson, Andre Iguodala, Chandler Parsons, Dorell Wright, Martell Webster, Francisco Garcia, Elton Brand, DeJuan Blair, Earl Clark.

And I'm high on Alex Len (Top 5) potential and Gorgui Dieng or Sergey Karasev at #19.

gflem · Post #517 » by **gflem** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:33 am

We are on the same page here, I would love to see them bring Iggy here, and Earl Clark too if possible. If we could find a way to get Iggy then Len and Karasev would be fine for me as well.

DowJones · Post #518 » by **DowJones** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 1:25 pm

gflem wrote:We are on the same page here, I would love to see them bring Iggy here, and Earl Clark too if possible. If we could find a way to get Iggy then Len and Karasev would be fine for me as well.

Why would Cleveland spend all the money it would take to sign a B-level player like Iggy? What point does that serve?

tidho · Post #519 » by **tidho** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 6:41 pm

DowJones wrote:
gflem wrote:We are on the same page here, I would love to see them bring Iggy here, and Earl Clark too if possible. If we could find a way to get Iggy then Len and Karasev would be fine for me as well.

Why would Cleveland spend all the money it would take to sign a B-level player like Iggy? What point does that serve?

If he's a 'b' level player, than he'll get 'b' level money.

If your mission is to make the playoffs, I think Iggy is a reasonable way to make that happen. Coach would love his defense, and he can do a little of everything on offense. Draft Len then a shooter (Crabbe at 19, for instance) on the wing and you're making the playoffs next season.

If the only reason not to pursue him is because of the money, then you aren't trying to win now. I don't know what Iggy will get, a lot of teams are saving up for next year, but it will be less than his current contract. Four years, $35M?.....I have no idea.

BossHoggin · Post #520 » by **BossHoggin** » Thu Jun 13, 2013 10:37 pm

kbdiggity wrote:
BosBorgon wrote:
minimus wrote:I'm affraid Irving won't resign if Cavs aren't unable to surround him with talent. Waiting for another 2-3 year? IMO it isn't good way.

I hate this line of thinking - its just plain wrong.

Did Wade leave Miami when they tanked for years setting up for 2010?

If the Cavs make the right moves and are ready to compete in 2016, no way Kyrie leaves because they were bad in 2014

You need to get your facts straight. The Miami Heat have only tanked one year in Wade's entire career. He was drafted in 2003, and they have made the playoffs AND had a winning record every season except '07-'08.

You'd be hard pressed to convince many people to move away from Miami, especially when they've gone to playoffs nearly every year of their career. It probably wouldn't take much to convince someone to move away from Cleveland when their whole career has been full of losing records.

That team tanked more than that one year, Wade was just that good to keep them respectable. They didn't sign anyone to compete, Wade carried them.