Trade Ideas

[JonFromVA]

Heres the thing your missing--he actually needs to be on the court for more than 1:30 in garbage time to actually start playing and show improvements.

This team has no problem giving 30+ min a night to Okoro over the last 2 years who cant dribble or shoot his way out of a paper bag. How dont we have 15 min per night for Windler again?

Okoro and Stevens get on the floor because of their defense which is consistently good. Windler's not a top lottery pick, so he's simply not getting the same investment from the FO. It's all up to JBB, and JBB is hunting wins and barely even has minutes for Dean Wade who was pretty consistent when given consistent minutes.

Anyway, I think LeVert fills a number of roster holes we're struggling with (secondary playmaking, bucket getting). I need to start my deeper dive now that he's on-board and even better we get to see him first hand. I watched highlights from his 42pt game (which I admit is going to paint an overly optimistic picture), but he seems to play with pace and can get buckets in the mid-range. He's not strictly a set shooter like Sexton - (saw him make a step back 3pter), so it's possible his 3pt shooting percentage will improve if he cuts down the difficulty of his shots. Seems to know how to finish.

Oh, and he's not 6'1" ... the NBA has him listed at 6'6", so that should be better for our perimeter switch-ability.

Am I worried about his injury history? Sure, but there are reasons he's available for a 1st and a 2nd and not even a player.

And while LeVert gives us a great alternative if we trade Collin or he wants to leave in free-agency because Detroit (or someone) wants to make him their starting PG; I still don't believe it forces us to do anything. It just leaves us without a gaping hole.

I don't mind Stevens in limited minutes (5-10), and the right situation, but I feel like there's a segment of the fanbase that sees something I do not when it comes to his game. He has no offensive skill set. With Garland and Lauri both out, Windler should've gotten more run. That he did not should be cause for concern either with him, Bickerstaff, or the organization. I'm not panicking over it, but my eyebrows are raised.

One reason everything has gone as well as it has this season inspite of all the injuries is because JBB has created fixed roles and there's been no grumbling about it. When Okoro sits, Stevens gives JBB a way to keep that same role on the floor.

Stevens may not be particularly talented, but he is ready to play. Same for Goodwin. Dylan Windler was supposed to be there after 4 years at Belmont but he's not, and JBB isn't going to just shovel him minutes to see if he can force feed him to that point. There may be more going on than that? But I'd like at least one piece of evidence before driving off that cliff.

You know I've been a big proponent of floor spacing and would love to see JBB play as many viable shooters as he has to open things up, but that's just not how he sees things. Mobley and Stevens didn't do much during our 25-0 run .vs. the Pacers last night, you know, other than help hold them to 0 points.

[JonFromVA]

Is there a pressing need for the roster spot? A line of people looking to trade for $4 million dollar SG who averaged 1FGA per 5 minutes in the court.


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Okoro averages 1 shot every 4 mins on the floor and we play him 29 min per night.

Okoro's job is point-of-attack defense. But he's a threat to drive and cut. He has a league-average TS% while playing good D. His usage is low, which is fine with there being higher-efficiency scorers all over the floor.

Lamar Stevens's job is mostly defense too, sometimes at the point of attack but frequently against the best wing/forward. But he's shown a pretty good mid-range shot (48% from 10-16 feet this year) and is turning into a decent off-ball cutter, and his usage is creeping up. He's at nearly league-average TS%, which is great from a plus defender. He's doing a nice homeless-man's Aaron Gordon role, except he's not that kind of athlete.

Windler's job is to shoot and he shoots less than the guys whose job is to play defense. He leads the team in foul rate, and while he doesn't play bad defense, you're not putting him on the other team's best player. He's played 343 minutes this year, which is plenty for a guy who isn't doing what he's supposed to be doing on the court. Grabbing LeVert will hopefully give him more time with the Charge to figure out how he's supposed to play. Keep in mind with all the time he's missed, he's still playing like a rookie or 2nd year guy.

Windler's roster spot is almost totally safe through the rest of the year (we have Pangos to waive if we want a buyout guy), but his problem isn't court time. His problem is he's 25 years old and he plays like he's 20. He's only a year younger than Cedi.

The luxury tax is still a factor if we want to use any of our remaining cap exemptions. So, I could see any of our end of the bench players being sent out in a deal to not only open a roster spot, but to subtract their salary.

I don't think two-way players can be on a playoff roster. So if we think we need Goodwin (Nembhard, a buyout, whoever) to help Garland and Rondo we will need to clear up a roster spot. They may feel ok there with LeVert, or they may just look to trade for a backup PG.

[jbk1234]

Okoro and Stevens get on the floor because of their defense which is consistently good. Windler's not a top lottery pick, so he's simply not getting the same investment from the FO. It's all up to JBB, and JBB is hunting wins and barely even has minutes for Dean Wade who was pretty consistent when given consistent minutes.

Anyway, I think LeVert fills a number of roster holes we're struggling with (secondary playmaking, bucket getting). I need to start my deeper dive now that he's on-board and even better we get to see him first hand. I watched highlights from his 42pt game (which I admit is going to paint an overly optimistic picture), but he seems to play with pace and can get buckets in the mid-range. He's not strictly a set shooter like Sexton - (saw him make a step back 3pter), so it's possible his 3pt shooting percentage will improve if he cuts down the difficulty of his shots. Seems to know how to finish.

Oh, and he's not 6'1" ... the NBA has him listed at 6'6", so that should be better for our perimeter switch-ability.

Am I worried about his injury history? Sure, but there are reasons he's available for a 1st and a 2nd and not even a player.

And while LeVert gives us a great alternative if we trade Collin or he wants to leave in free-agency because Detroit (or someone) wants to make him their starting PG; I still don't believe it forces us to do anything. It just leaves us without a gaping hole.

I don't mind Stevens in limited minutes (5-10), and the right situation, but I feel like there's a segment of the fanbase that sees something I do not when it comes to his game. He has no offensive skill set. With Garland and Lauri both out, Windler should've gotten more run. That he did not should be cause for concern either with him, Bickerstaff, or the organization. I'm not panicking over it, but my eyebrows are raised.

One reason everything has gone as well as it has this season inspite of all the injuries is because JBB has created fixed roles and there's been no grumbling about it. When Okoro sits, Stevens gives JBB a way to keep that same role on the floor.

Stevens may not be particularly talented, but he is ready to play. Same for Goodwin. Dylan Windler was supposed to be there after 4 years at Belmont but he's not, and JBB isn't going to just shovel him minutes to see if he can force feed him to that point. There may be more going on than that? But I'd like at least one piece of evidence before driving off that cliff.

You know I've been a big proponent of floor spacing and would love to see JBB play as many viable shooters as he has to open things up, but that's just not how he sees things. Mobley and Stevens didn't do much during our 25-0 run .vs. the Pacers last night, you know, other than help hold them to 0 points.

My specific complaints are with respect to the Pistons and Rockets games when were not stopping the other team from scoring and also couldn't get the ball in the hoops. If the shooters you have on the court are in cheat mode, leave them out there. But when they're not, and you're not getting stops, it seems unwise not to rotate in other players.

[toooskies]

Okoro averages 1 shot every 4 mins on the floor and we play him 29 min per night.

Okoro's job is point-of-attack defense. But he's a threat to drive and cut. He has a league-average TS% while playing good D. His usage is low, which is fine with there being higher-efficiency scorers all over the floor.

Lamar Stevens's job is mostly defense too, sometimes at the point of attack but frequently against the best wing/forward. But he's shown a pretty good mid-range shot (48% from 10-16 feet this year) and is turning into a decent off-ball cutter, and his usage is creeping up. He's at nearly league-average TS%, which is great from a plus defender. He's doing a nice homeless-man's Aaron Gordon role, except he's not that kind of athlete.

Windler's job is to shoot and he shoots less than the guys whose job is to play defense. He leads the team in foul rate, and while he doesn't play bad defense, you're not putting him on the other team's best player. He's played 343 minutes this year, which is plenty for a guy who isn't doing what he's supposed to be doing on the court. Grabbing LeVert will hopefully give him more time with the Charge to figure out how he's supposed to play. Keep in mind with all the time he's missed, he's still playing like a rookie or 2nd year guy.

Windler's roster spot is almost totally safe through the rest of the year (we have Pangos to waive if we want a buyout guy), but his problem isn't court time. His problem is he's 25 years old and he plays like he's 20. He's only a year younger than Cedi.

The luxury tax is still a factor if we want to use any of our remaining cap exemptions. So, I could see any of our end of the bench players being sent out in a deal to not only open a roster spot, but to subtract their salary.

I don't think two-way players can be on a playoff roster. So if we think we need Goodwin (Nembhard, a buyout, whoever) to help Garland and Rondo we will need to clear up a roster spot. They may feel ok there with LeVert, or they may just look to trade for a backup PG.

Again, I think Pangos is the obvious first one out if the Cavs are trying to cut space. I think Windler's guaranteed year next year chases away any team that's worried about cap space but needs to take a guy back-- they probably kick the tires on Wade or Stevens if they want a valuable young guy with rotation potential. And if we're bringing in a buyout guy after that, Rondo and Davis are cheaper to waive and probably have their role marginalized more by the buyout guy. (Not sure there are buyout-likely shooter wings available unless JJ Redick comes out of retirement or something.)

[toooskies]

Anyone want to do the math on how much we can offer Sexton in free agency while bringing Rubio back on the full MLE?

[jbk1234]

Anyone want to do the math on how much we can offer Sexton in free agency while bringing Rubio back on the full MLE?

So long as Gilbert is willing to pay an obscene tax bill, they can pay Sexton any amount so long as they pay him after Rubio signs an MLE deal. But I really struggle to see a path forward with Sexton on the Cavs after the LeVert trade. Either LeVert works out, and then you don't need to pay a guy to duplicate what he gives you, or he doesn't, and then you should probably be questioning how exactly Sexton, who plays very similarly, would work instead. I mean Sexton is shorter, a worse defender, a better three point shooter, and more efficient. Other than that, they're very, very similar players.

[toooskies]

Anyone want to do the math on how much we can offer Sexton in free agency while bringing Rubio back on the full MLE?

So long as Gilbert is willing to pay an obscene tax bill, they can pay Sexton any amount so long as they pay him after Rubio signs an MLE deal. But I really struggle to see a path forward with Sexton on the Cavs after the LeVert trade. Either LeVert works out, and then you don't need to pay a guy to duplicate what he gives you, or he doesn't, and then you should probably be questioning how exactly Sexton, who plays very similarly, would work instead. I mean Sexton is shorter, a worse defender, a better three point shooter, and more efficient. Other than that, they're very, very similar players.

Not sure that's true-- Sexton has a cap hold of a little over $19m for next year until we sign him. Our cap holds for next year, according to spotrac, go up to the tax apron of $153m without Rubio and none of the holds free up significant money. Doesn't that mean we won't have the NTP MLE of a little over $10m, we'll instead have the TP MLE of a little over $6m? I gotta think someone offers the full MLE... Unless Rubio comes back for just one year at the TP MLE while recovering from his injury.

Again, not at all sure what market Rubio will have. But if Sexton just takes the QO (which is a very real possibility now with Sexton's injury, a weak FA market this year, and Klutch involved), I think that gives us space to give Rubio the full NTP MLE and not the TP MLE.

And yes, how much Gilbert wants to spend matters.

[jbk1234]

Anyone want to do the math on how much we can offer Sexton in free agency while bringing Rubio back on the full MLE?

So long as Gilbert is willing to pay an obscene tax bill, they can pay Sexton any amount so long as they pay him after Rubio signs an MLE deal. But I really struggle to see a path forward with Sexton on the Cavs after the LeVert trade. Either LeVert works out, and then you don't need to pay a guy to duplicate what he gives you, or he doesn't, and then you should probably be questioning how exactly Sexton, who plays very similarly, would work instead. I mean Sexton is shorter, a worse defender, a better three point shooter, and more efficient. Other than that, they're very, very similar players.

Not sure that's true-- Sexton has a cap hold of a little over $19m for next year until we sign him. Our cap holds for next year, according to spotrac, go up to the tax apron of $153m without Rubio and none of the holds free up significant money. Doesn't that mean we won't have the NTP MLE of a little over $10m, we'll instead have the TP MLE of a little over $6m? I gotta think someone offers the full MLE... Unless Rubio comes back for just one year at the TP MLE while recovering from his injury.

Again, not at all sure what market Rubio will have. But if Sexton just takes the QO (which is a very real possibility now with Sexton's injury, a weak FA market this year, and Klutch involved), I think that gives us space to give Rubio the full NTP MLE and not the TP MLE.

And yes, how much Gilbert wants to spend matters.

Klutch will scour the market far and wide to find a S&T before allowing Sexton to play on the Q.O.

[LivingLegend]

Anyone want to do the math on how much we can offer Sexton in free agency while bringing Rubio back on the full MLE?

So long as Gilbert is willing to pay an obscene tax bill, they can pay Sexton any amount so long as they pay him after Rubio signs an MLE deal. But I really struggle to see a path forward with Sexton on the Cavs after the LeVert trade. Either LeVert works out, and then you don't need to pay a guy to duplicate what he gives you, or he doesn't, and then you should probably be questioning how exactly Sexton, who plays very similarly, would work instead. I mean Sexton is shorter, a worse defender, a better three point shooter, and more efficient. Other than that, they're very, very similar players.

Not to keep harping on it but the Cavs play Okoro/Stevens and they are carbon copies of one another (right now at least)

I dont think JB would mind too much if he had both Sexton/LeVert who are a bit redundant but on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I think its obvious how this is going to shake out. The Cavs didnt just trade all of that to not resign LeVert, he will be priority #2 after Garland if that happens this year.

Its going to come down to Sexton being willing to accept the offer the Cavs are comfortable giving him to work under the cap. He is either going to accept (25% chance) or say hell no Im worth more than that and leave (75% chance) since he is now being represented by the money hungry Klutch group.

The good news is that if Sexton does leave--it will be easier to resign guys like Osman and Rubio keeping that 2nd veteran unit strong. I dont want to lose Cedi lol If a team like SA offers Cedi a obsene amount to go, then that opens up the window for Sexton to stay.

[JonFromVA]

Okoro's job is point-of-attack defense. But he's a threat to drive and cut. He has a league-average TS% while playing good D. His usage is low, which is fine with there being higher-efficiency scorers all over the floor.

Lamar Stevens's job is mostly defense too, sometimes at the point of attack but frequently against the best wing/forward. But he's shown a pretty good mid-range shot (48% from 10-16 feet this year) and is turning into a decent off-ball cutter, and his usage is creeping up. He's at nearly league-average TS%, which is great from a plus defender. He's doing a nice homeless-man's Aaron Gordon role, except he's not that kind of athlete.

Windler's job is to shoot and he shoots less than the guys whose job is to play defense. He leads the team in foul rate, and while he doesn't play bad defense, you're not putting him on the other team's best player. He's played 343 minutes this year, which is plenty for a guy who isn't doing what he's supposed to be doing on the court. Grabbing LeVert will hopefully give him more time with the Charge to figure out how he's supposed to play. Keep in mind with all the time he's missed, he's still playing like a rookie or 2nd year guy.

Windler's roster spot is almost totally safe through the rest of the year (we have Pangos to waive if we want a buyout guy), but his problem isn't court time. His problem is he's 25 years old and he plays like he's 20. He's only a year younger than Cedi.

The luxury tax is still a factor if we want to use any of our remaining cap exemptions. So, I could see any of our end of the bench players being sent out in a deal to not only open a roster spot, but to subtract their salary.

I don't think two-way players can be on a playoff roster. So if we think we need Goodwin (Nembhard, a buyout, whoever) to help Garland and Rondo we will need to clear up a roster spot. They may feel ok there with LeVert, or they may just look to trade for a backup PG.

Again, I think Pangos is the obvious first one out if the Cavs are trying to cut space. I think Windler's guaranteed year next year chases away any team that's worried about cap space but needs to take a guy back-- they probably kick the tires on Wade or Stevens if they want a valuable young guy with rotation potential. And if we're bringing in a buyout guy after that, Rondo and Davis are cheaper to waive and probably have their role marginalized more by the buyout guy. (Not sure there are buyout-likely shooter wings available unless JJ Redick comes out of retirement or something.)

Pangos and Stevens are both owed $1.7M next season, Windler is getting $4M, and Wade has a $1.9M team option.

Davis and Rondo are expiring.

It comes down to what another team wants to take a player off our hands, how much cap space we need, and if someone wants Windler. We may come to regret it, but we're not entering the luxury tax just so we can hold on to Dylan.

[jbk1234]

Anyone want to do the math on how much we can offer Sexton in free agency while bringing Rubio back on the full MLE?

So long as Gilbert is willing to pay an obscene tax bill, they can pay Sexton any amount so long as they pay him after Rubio signs an MLE deal. But I really struggle to see a path forward with Sexton on the Cavs after the LeVert trade. Either LeVert works out, and then you don't need to pay a guy to duplicate what he gives you, or he doesn't, and then you should probably be questioning how exactly Sexton, who plays very similarly, would work instead. I mean Sexton is shorter, a worse defender, a better three point shooter, and more efficient. Other than that, they're very, very similar players.

Not to keep harping on it but the Cavs play Okoro/Stevens and they are carbon copies of one another (right now at least)

I dont think JB would mind too much if he had both Sexton/LeVert who are a bit redundant but on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I think its obvious how this is going to shake out. The Cavs didnt just trade all of that to not resign LeVert, he will be priority #2 after Garland if that happens this year.

Its going to come down to Sexton being willing to accept the offer the Cavs are comfortable giving him to work under the cap. He is either going to accept (25% chance) or say hell no Im worth more than that and leave (75% chance) since he is now being represented by the money hungry Klutch group.

The good news is that if Sexton does leave--it will be easier to resign guys like Osman and Rubio keeping that 2nd veteran unit strong. I dont want to lose Cedi lol If a team like SA offers Cedi a obsene amount to go, then that opens up the window for Sexton to stay.

I think we need to pump the brakes on the LeVert extension until we see how he actually fits. I don't want to be a debbie downer but there's a non-zero chance this doesn't work at all. The worst the Cavs could do if fall victim to the sunken cost fallacy when it comes to a LeVert extension, or a new contract with Sexton for that matter.

I don't necessarily agree that Okoro and Stevens are duplicative, I have Okoro as better with a much higher ceiling. When I say Stevens is a bruiser who has no offensive skill set, I mean he has no offensive skill set. That aside, Okoro $6.7M and Stevens is on a league minimum deal. That's not the same as paying LeVert $19M and Sexton $15M+ to fill the same role.

[toooskies]

So long as Gilbert is willing to pay an obscene tax bill, they can pay Sexton any amount so long as they pay him after Rubio signs an MLE deal. But I really struggle to see a path forward with Sexton on the Cavs after the LeVert trade. Either LeVert works out, and then you don't need to pay a guy to duplicate what he gives you, or he doesn't, and then you should probably be questioning how exactly Sexton, who plays very similarly, would work instead. I mean Sexton is shorter, a worse defender, a better three point shooter, and more efficient. Other than that, they're very, very similar players.

Not sure that's true-- Sexton has a cap hold of a little over $19m for next year until we sign him. Our cap holds for next year, according to spotrac, go up to the tax apron of $153m without Rubio and none of the holds free up significant money. Doesn't that mean we won't have the NTP MLE of a little over $10m, we'll instead have the TP MLE of a little over $6m? I gotta think someone offers the full MLE... Unless Rubio comes back for just one year at the TP MLE while recovering from his injury.

Again, not at all sure what market Rubio will have. But if Sexton just takes the QO (which is a very real possibility now with Sexton's injury, a weak FA market this year, and Klutch involved), I think that gives us space to give Rubio the full NTP MLE and not the TP MLE.

And yes, how much Gilbert wants to spend matters.

Klutch will scour the market far and wide to find a S&T before allowing Sexton to play on the Q.O.

I don't know, if Sexton's camp loves how he's doing in recovery but other teams don't want to take a chance, he might not get much more than the QO. If the deals out there are on the low-end (3y/$50m?), he gives himself a chance to make a LOT of money in the QO year.

Although having to earn that starting job back now with LeVert and Okoro competing for it will present a problem with playing on the QO...

[LivingLegend]

So long as Gilbert is willing to pay an obscene tax bill, they can pay Sexton any amount so long as they pay him after Rubio signs an MLE deal. But I really struggle to see a path forward with Sexton on the Cavs after the LeVert trade. Either LeVert works out, and then you don't need to pay a guy to duplicate what he gives you, or he doesn't, and then you should probably be questioning how exactly Sexton, who plays very similarly, would work instead. I mean Sexton is shorter, a worse defender, a better three point shooter, and more efficient. Other than that, they're very, very similar players.

Not to keep harping on it but the Cavs play Okoro/Stevens and they are carbon copies of one another (right now at least)

I dont think JB would mind too much if he had both Sexton/LeVert who are a bit redundant but on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I think its obvious how this is going to shake out. The Cavs didnt just trade all of that to not resign LeVert, he will be priority #2 after Garland if that happens this year.

Its going to come down to Sexton being willing to accept the offer the Cavs are comfortable giving him to work under the cap. He is either going to accept (25% chance) or say hell no Im worth more than that and leave (75% chance) since he is now being represented by the money hungry Klutch group.

The good news is that if Sexton does leave--it will be easier to resign guys like Osman and Rubio keeping that 2nd veteran unit strong. I dont want to lose Cedi lol If a team like SA offers Cedi a obsene amount to go, then that opens up the window for Sexton to stay.

I think we need to pump the brakes on the LeVert extension until we see how he actually fits. I don't want to be a debbie downer but there's a non-zero chance this doesn't work at all. The worst the Cavs could do if fall victim to the sunken cost fallacy when it comes to a LeVert extension, or a new contract with Sexton for that matter.

I don't necessarily agree that Okoro and Stevens are duplicative, I have Okoro as better with a much higher ceiling. When I say Stevens is a bruiser who has no offensive skill set, I mean he has no offensive skill set. That aside, Okoro $6.7M and Stevens is on a league minimum deal. That's not the same as paying LeVert $19M and Sexton $15M+ to fill the same role.

I just have a hard time believing the Cavs sought out a specific player and paid a decent chunk of draft assets to not resign him. Especially after there has been reports that the Cavs are looking to lock him up. I think he will have to 1) suffer a bad injury or 2) being unspeakably horrible for the Cavs not to go that route.

I see it like the Lauri situation. They identified a player that fit them, traded good assets to get him and locked him up longterm. I can also see Levert getting a contract similar to the one Lauri got as well.

I also think they view LeVert as Collin Sexton insurance in case he walks. They are going to use LeVert in negotiations to get Sextons price down because Klutch can no longer play the 'well you NEED Sexton' card in negotiations. No we dont

[KuruptedCav]

Anyone want to do the math on how much we can offer Sexton in free agency while bringing Rubio back on the full MLE?

Assuming the Apron is $154mil, just under $15 million, unless they make an additional move.

And if he’s willing to take that, the Cavs should.

Though, I’ll be shocked to see both Kevin Love and Lauri Markkanen on the Cavs next year.


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[jbk1234]

Not to keep harping on it but the Cavs play Okoro/Stevens and they are carbon copies of one another (right now at least)

I dont think JB would mind too much if he had both Sexton/LeVert who are a bit redundant but on the opposite end of the spectrum.

I think its obvious how this is going to shake out. The Cavs didnt just trade all of that to not resign LeVert, he will be priority #2 after Garland if that happens this year.

Its going to come down to Sexton being willing to accept the offer the Cavs are comfortable giving him to work under the cap. He is either going to accept (25% chance) or say hell no Im worth more than that and leave (75% chance) since he is now being represented by the money hungry Klutch group.

The good news is that if Sexton does leave--it will be easier to resign guys like Osman and Rubio keeping that 2nd veteran unit strong. I dont want to lose Cedi lol If a team like SA offers Cedi a obsene amount to go, then that opens up the window for Sexton to stay.

I think we need to pump the brakes on the LeVert extension until we see how he actually fits. I don't want to be a debbie downer but there's a non-zero chance this doesn't work at all. The worst the Cavs could do if fall victim to the sunken cost fallacy when it comes to a LeVert extension, or a new contract with Sexton for that matter.

I don't necessarily agree that Okoro and Stevens are duplicative, I have Okoro as better with a much higher ceiling. When I say Stevens is a bruiser who has no offensive skill set, I mean he has no offensive skill set. That aside, Okoro $6.7M and Stevens is on a league minimum deal. That's not the same as paying LeVert $19M and Sexton $15M+ to fill the same role.

I just have a hard time believing the Cavs sought out a specific player and paid a decent chunk of draft assets to not resign him. Especially after there has been reports that the Cavs are looking to lock him up. I think he will have to 1) suffer a bad injury or 2) being unspeakably horrible for the Cavs not to go that route.

I see it like the Lauri situation. They identified a player that fit them, traded good assets to get him and locked him up longterm. I can also see Levert getting a contract similar to the one Lauri got as well.

Luckily, they cannot extend him until this summer so they'll have a decent sample size in terms of whether it's working out. Speaking only for myself, the one thing I like about this trade is that LeVert falls off the books in summer of 2023. I'd love nothing more for LeVert to rise to the occasion and prove me wrong. But the picks and the cap space are gone. The trade is official. The acquisition cost should not inform the decisions they make going forward. His fit and the team's overall play with him on the court should inform their decision.

[JonFromVA]

Anyone want to do the math on how much we can offer Sexton in free agency while bringing Rubio back on the full MLE?

So long as Gilbert is willing to pay an obscene tax bill, they can pay Sexton any amount so long as they pay him after Rubio signs an MLE deal. But I really struggle to see a path forward with Sexton on the Cavs after the LeVert trade. Either LeVert works out, and then you don't need to pay a guy to duplicate what he gives you, or he doesn't, and then you should probably be questioning how exactly Sexton, who plays very similarly, would work instead. I mean Sexton is shorter, a worse defender, a better three point shooter, and more efficient. Other than that, they're very, very similar players.

It's just nice to have options, you know?

Klutch won't have us over a barrel with the Sexton negotiations, we can survive if we can't get Rubio back next year, and we've minimally extended Rubio's contract as a future asset. In other words, if Sexton or Okoro outplayed him, maybe LeVert gets moved again.

[LivingLegend]

I think we need to pump the brakes on the LeVert extension until we see how he actually fits. I don't want to be a debbie downer but there's a non-zero chance this doesn't work at all. The worst the Cavs could do if fall victim to the sunken cost fallacy when it comes to a LeVert extension, or a new contract with Sexton for that matter.

I don't necessarily agree that Okoro and Stevens are duplicative, I have Okoro as better with a much higher ceiling. When I say Stevens is a bruiser who has no offensive skill set, I mean he has no offensive skill set. That aside, Okoro $6.7M and Stevens is on a league minimum deal. That's not the same as paying LeVert $19M and Sexton $15M+ to fill the same role.

I just have a hard time believing the Cavs sought out a specific player and paid a decent chunk of draft assets to not resign him. Especially after there has been reports that the Cavs are looking to lock him up. I think he will have to 1) suffer a bad injury or 2) being unspeakably horrible for the Cavs not to go that route.

I see it like the Lauri situation. They identified a player that fit them, traded good assets to get him and locked him up longterm. I can also see Levert getting a contract similar to the one Lauri got as well.

Luckily, they cannot extend him until this summer so they'll have a decent sample size in terms of whether it's working out. Speaking only for myself, the one thing I like about this trade is that LeVert falls off the books in summer of 2023. I'd love nothing more for LeVert to rise to the occasion and prove me wrong. But the picks and the cap space are gone. The trade is official. The acquisition cost should not inform the decisions they make going forward. His fit and the team's overall play with him on the court should inform their decision.

Well they know what Sexton brings, they will get a good look at LeVert. One of them is going to get paid this offseason by Cleveland.

If they choose LeVert>Sexton--they could always S&T Sexton and recoup those draft assets so it would be a wash anyways.

[jbk1234]

I just have a hard time believing the Cavs sought out a specific player and paid a decent chunk of draft assets to not resign him. Especially after there has been reports that the Cavs are looking to lock him up. I think he will have to 1) suffer a bad injury or 2) being unspeakably horrible for the Cavs not to go that route.

I see it like the Lauri situation. They identified a player that fit them, traded good assets to get him and locked him up longterm. I can also see Levert getting a contract similar to the one Lauri got as well.

Luckily, they cannot extend him until this summer so they'll have a decent sample size in terms of whether it's working out. Speaking only for myself, the one thing I like about this trade is that LeVert falls off the books in summer of 2023. I'd love nothing more for LeVert to rise to the occasion and prove me wrong. But the picks and the cap space are gone. The trade is official. The acquisition cost should not inform the decisions they make going forward. His fit and the team's overall play with him on the court should inform their decision.

Well they know what Sexton brings, they will get a good look at LeVert. One of them is going to get paid this offseason by Cleveland.

If they choose LeVert>Sexton--they could always S&T Sexton and recoup those draft assets so it would be a wash anyways.

Or, they could trade LeVert as an expiring for someone who might be a better fit at the 2 guard rather than decide they have to pay either LeVert or Sexton. There is always the option of not paying either of them and trading them both. I'd trade Sexton for Grimes and filler right now.

[Harper4Ferry?]

An extension of LeVert would be something like 4 years and 100-110 million which, considering the annual cap increases, isn't that bad at all for a starting player. Meanwhile Garland would be asking for the max I'd assume, which is something like 5 years and 172 million. Given that Love falls off soon, you can go through with your 4 highest paid players Garland at 33 Million, LeVert at 25 million, Allen at 20 million, and Markkanen at 17 million. Eventually someone would have to be moved for Mobley to get the max, but that's several years off. Guys impacted the most by a LeVert extension are obviously sexton and okoro, both of whom would be looking for work elsewhere.

[jbk1234]

An extension of LeVert would be something like 4 years and 100-110 million which, considering the annual cap increases, isn't that bad at all for a starting player. Meanwhile Garland would be asking for the max I'd assume, which is something like 5 years and 172 million. Given that Love falls off soon, you can go through with your 4 highest paid players Garland at 33 Million, LeVert at 25 million, Allen at 20 million, and Markkanen at 17 million. Eventually someone would have to be moved for Mobley to get the max, but that's several years off. Guys impacted the most by a LeVert extension are obviously sexton and okoro, both of whom would be looking for work elsewhere.

I'm not sure we know LeVert is a long-term starter, or even a short-term starter, who's due $100M extension this summer without having seen him play on this team. If his usage and shot selection negatively impact Allen/Mobley/Garland, he'll be coming off the bench here and see most of his minutes with Lauri and Love. I also would be very careful concluding that he'll be better than Okoro two or three years from now.

Just a lot of hot takes going on.