Trade Ideas

[JonFromVA]

An extension of LeVert would be something like 4 years and 100-110 million which, considering the annual cap increases, isn't that bad at all for a starting player. Meanwhile Garland would be asking for the max I'd assume, which is something like 5 years and 172 million. Given that Love falls off soon, you can go through with your 4 highest paid players Garland at 33 Million, LeVert at 25 million, Allen at 20 million, and Markkanen at 17 million. Eventually someone would have to be moved for Mobley to get the max, but that's several years off. Guys impacted the most by a LeVert extension are obviously sexton and okoro, both of whom would be looking for work elsewhere.

Your numbers add up to $95M, if Gilbert wants to play with the big boys ... the W's have nearly $139M tied up in their top-4 players under today's salary cap.

Admittedly, the Cavs don't generate the sort of income the W's do; but it's really when these guys are on their second max that things get scary.

[JonFromVA]

An extension of LeVert would be something like 4 years and 100-110 million which, considering the annual cap increases, isn't that bad at all for a starting player. Meanwhile Garland would be asking for the max I'd assume, which is something like 5 years and 172 million. Given that Love falls off soon, you can go through with your 4 highest paid players Garland at 33 Million, LeVert at 25 million, Allen at 20 million, and Markkanen at 17 million. Eventually someone would have to be moved for Mobley to get the max, but that's several years off. Guys impacted the most by a LeVert extension are obviously sexton and okoro, both of whom would be looking for work elsewhere.

I'm not sure we know LeVert is a long-term starter, or even a short-term starter, who's due $100M extension this summer without having seen him play on this team. If his usage and shot selection negatively impact Allen/Mobley/Garland, he'll be coming off the bench here and see most of his minutes with Lauri and Love. I also would be very careful concluding that he'll be better than Okoro two or three years from now.

Just a lot of hot takes going on.

I'm sure some things will shake out because players get unhappy and complain to their agent, but IMO we should be thinking 3+ years down the line. Caris LeVert was still in College when he was Isaac's age. He'd go on to average 8-3-2 as a rookie.

LeVert became more of a volume scorer when he was 25 ... or about Wade/Windler age.

Isaac won't be 25 for 4 years, even Collin is still 2 years away.

There's nothing wrong with thinking of LeVert as a transitional piece for the roster ... a player who starts for now, but eventually steps aside when our young players step-up or gets traded for something else we need.

And you're right that while LeVert is extension eligible this off-season, that doesn't mean we have to extend him. We have almost exactly 12 months to decide if he fits the roster given the price he's asking.

[KuruptedCav]

An extension of LeVert would be something like 4 years and 100-110 million which, considering the annual cap increases, isn't that bad at all for a starting player. Meanwhile Garland would be asking for the max I'd assume, which is something like 5 years and 172 million. Given that Love falls off soon, you can go through with your 4 highest paid players Garland at 33 Million, LeVert at 25 million, Allen at 20 million, and Markkanen at 17 million. Eventually someone would have to be moved for Mobley to get the max, but that's several years off. Guys impacted the most by a LeVert extension are obviously sexton and okoro, both of whom would be looking for work elsewhere.

Your numbers add up to $95M, if Gilbert wants to play with the big boys ... the W's have nearly $139M tied up in their top-4 players under today's salary cap.

Admittedly, the Cavs don't generate the sort of income the W's do; but it's really when these guys are on their second max that things get scary.

Dan Gilbert never shied from paying to win. Grant Gilbert is operating with his father’s blessing and learning the job from outside the owner’s chair, for now. I’ve heard, a private goal of his, is to attend a championship party with his dad.

The windfall from taking Quicken Loans public and divesting Rock means they will never have a cash crunch; and NBA values continue to increase at a rate far exceeding player salaries.

It’s also coincided with some organizational stability.

The CBA will always operate a check, but, I would be very shocked to see the Cavs actively trying to move productive players to duck the tax or peel tax dollars off if they are competing for rings.


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[JonFromVA]

An extension of LeVert would be something like 4 years and 100-110 million which, considering the annual cap increases, isn't that bad at all for a starting player. Meanwhile Garland would be asking for the max I'd assume, which is something like 5 years and 172 million. Given that Love falls off soon, you can go through with your 4 highest paid players Garland at 33 Million, LeVert at 25 million, Allen at 20 million, and Markkanen at 17 million. Eventually someone would have to be moved for Mobley to get the max, but that's several years off. Guys impacted the most by a LeVert extension are obviously sexton and okoro, both of whom would be looking for work elsewhere.

Your numbers add up to $95M, if Gilbert wants to play with the big boys ... the W's have nearly $139M tied up in their top-4 players under today's salary cap.

Admittedly, the Cavs don't generate the sort of income the W's do; but it's really when these guys are on their second max that things get scary.

Dan Gilbert never shied from paying to win. Grant Gilbert is operating with his father’s blessing and learning the job from outside the owner’s chair, for now. I’ve heard, a private goal of his, is to attend a championship party with his dad.

The windfall from taking Quicken Loans public and divesting Rock means they will never have a cash crunch; and NBA values continue to increase at a rate far exceeding player salaries.

It’s also coincided with some organizational stability.

The CBA will always operate a check, but, I would be very shocked to see the Cavs actively trying to move productive players to duck the tax or peel tax dollars off if they are competing for rings.

Yep, I expect Dan will be willing to pay a lot if the Cavs are contending, but there were limits in the past - like deciding to keep Shump over Delly.

[KuruptedCav]

Your numbers add up to $95M, if Gilbert wants to play with the big boys ... the W's have nearly $139M tied up in their top-4 players under today's salary cap.

Admittedly, the Cavs don't generate the sort of income the W's do; but it's really when these guys are on their second max that things get scary.

Dan Gilbert never shied from paying to win. Grant Gilbert is operating with his father’s blessing and learning the job from outside the owner’s chair, for now. I’ve heard, a private goal of his, is to attend a championship party with his dad.

The windfall from taking Quicken Loans public and divesting Rock means they will never have a cash crunch; and NBA values continue to increase at a rate far exceeding player salaries.

It’s also coincided with some organizational stability.

The CBA will always operate a check, but, I would be very shocked to see the Cavs actively trying to move productive players to duck the tax or peel tax dollars off if they are competing for rings.

Yep, I expect Dan will be willing to pay a lot if the Cavs are contending, but there were limits in the past - like deciding to keep Shump over Delly.

To be fair, the Bucks were stupid for handing that contract out and the Cavs were right to not match it. Shump was a sunk cost at that point.


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[KuruptedCav]

So, assuming neither swindler nor Cedi is moved ahead of the deadline, Cavs have $3.8 million in room below the luxury tax. Reasonable amount for the buyout market, and a little flex up to the trade deadline.

Looking at trade deadline: Cavs have $4.2 million TE from JaVale McGee and two smaller ones that are inconsequential from the Rondo deal ($850k) and LeVert deal ($300k); they also have the $3.17 mil DPE from Collin Sexton. The Rubio $9.5 million DPE expired when he was traded.

I would imagine with the 2022 traded at FRPs are off the table at this point.

Looking ahead at buyout market, the Cavs, in addition to the Sexton DPE have their MLE & BAE; so they have the ability to push the envelop a bit.


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[sisibilio]

An extension of LeVert would be something like 4 years and 100-110 million which, considering the annual cap increases, isn't that bad at all for a starting player. Meanwhile Garland would be asking for the max I'd assume, which is something like 5 years and 172 million. Given that Love falls off soon, you can go through with your 4 highest paid players Garland at 33 Million, LeVert at 25 million, Allen at 20 million, and Markkanen at 17 million. Eventually someone would have to be moved for Mobley to get the max, but that's several years off. Guys impacted the most by a LeVert extension are obviously sexton and okoro, both of whom would be looking for work elsewhere.

I'm not sure we know LeVert is a long-term starter, or even a short-term starter, who's due $100M extension this summer without having seen him play on this team. If his usage and shot selection negatively impact Allen/Mobley/Garland, he'll be coming off the bench here and see most of his minutes with Lauri and Love. I also would be very careful concluding that he'll be better than Okoro two or three years from now.

Just a lot of hot takes going on.

I'm sure some things will shake out because players get unhappy and complain to their agent, but IMO we should be thinking 3+ years down the line. Caris LeVert was still in College when he was Isaac's age. He'd go on to average 8-3-2 as a rookie.

LeVert became more of a volume scorer when he was 25 ... or about Wade/Windler age.

Isaac won't be 25 for 4 years, even Collin is still 2 years away.

There's nothing wrong with thinking of LeVert as a transitional piece for the roster ... a player who starts for now, but eventually steps aside when our young players step-up or gets traded for something else we need.

And you're right that while LeVert is extension eligible this off-season, that doesn't mean we have to extend him. We have almost exactly 12 months to decide if he fits the roster given the price he's asking.

I'm pretty sure they targeted Levert specifically, instead of the likes of Norman Powell, fit and whatever aside, because he had a shorter contract so it allowed them to keep flexibility. I'd bet my neighbours' house they're not extending his contract this summer.

[JonFromVA]

Dan Gilbert never shied from paying to win. Grant Gilbert is operating with his father’s blessing and learning the job from outside the owner’s chair, for now. I’ve heard, a private goal of his, is to attend a championship party with his dad.

The windfall from taking Quicken Loans public and divesting Rock means they will never have a cash crunch; and NBA values continue to increase at a rate far exceeding player salaries.

It’s also coincided with some organizational stability.

The CBA will always operate a check, but, I would be very shocked to see the Cavs actively trying to move productive players to duck the tax or peel tax dollars off if they are competing for rings.

Yep, I expect Dan will be willing to pay a lot if the Cavs are contending, but there were limits in the past - like deciding to keep Shump over Delly.

To be fair, the Bucks were stupid for handing that contract out and the Cavs were right to not match it. Shump was a sunk cost at that point.


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Well, to be doubley fair we could have extended Delly for cheap a year before, but if I remember right we didn't because it would have raised our cap hit in the short term.

[mcfly1204]

Gut feeling, but I have to assume Gilbert will shell out just to spite others. "Look at the team I built..."

[toooskies]

Gut feeling, but I have to assume Gilbert will shell out just to spite others. "Look at the team I built..."

A good team makes Gilbert money in other ways, with all the investment that he's put into downtown. Good sports teams drive traffic to the casino.

[jbk1234]

Gut feeling, but I have to assume Gilbert will shell out just to spite others. "Look at the team I built..."

Shelling out money just for the sake of shelling out money is how you end up signing guys like Larry Hughes, trading them for a grossly overpaid/past his prime Wallace, and calling it a win.

[KuruptedCav]

Gut feeling, but I have to assume Gilbert will shell out just to spite others. "Look at the team I built..."

A good team makes Gilbert money in other ways, with all the investment that he's put into downtown. Good sports teams drive traffic to the casino.

Gilbert sold the casinos in January 2021. Since his stroke he’s simplified his assets considerably so that his kids can take them over.


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[JonFromVA]

Gut feeling, but I have to assume Gilbert will shell out just to spite others. "Look at the team I built..."

Shelling out money just for the sake of shelling out money is how you end up signing guys like Larry Hughes, trading them for a grossly overpaid/past his prime Wallace, and calling it a win.

It was a win, Hughes helped get us to the finals and Ben played a huge role in the winningest season in franchise history.

You can make sure you have cap space, but you can't make sure there will be something to spend it on (without collusion).

And yes, Gilbert has ways and will find ways to profit from the team's success even if that success costs him millions in the short term (which btw is a corporate tax write off). Another way is simply in the team's franchise value. With our team's success no longer shackled to LeBron's whims, that value will rise.

btw, I thought he was out of the casino business?

[KuruptedCav]

Gut feeling, but I have to assume Gilbert will shell out just to spite others. "Look at the team I built..."

Shelling out money just for the sake of shelling out money is how you end up signing guys like Larry Hughes, trading them for a grossly overpaid/past his prime Wallace, and calling it a win.

Also how you end up over-paying Iman Shumpert, JR Smith and Tristan Thompson in 2015 and winning a ring in 2016…


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[JonFromVA]

Reportedly we will be ~ $22M under the luxury tax threshold for next season, so, there is a chance we stay under that if we can get Sexton and/or Rubio signed for less than that amount. A sign & trade where the player(s) we get back makes less than Sexton could work as well.

Either way, the knowledge that Gilbert isn't afraid to pay the tax should bring other teams to the S&T table before just offering him $22.5M and assuming we'll let him walk.

[mcfly1204]

Gut feeling, but I have to assume Gilbert will shell out just to spite others. "Look at the team I built..."

Shelling out money just for the sake of shelling out money is how you end up signing guys like Larry Hughes, trading them for a grossly overpaid/past his prime Wallace, and calling it a win.

It was a win, Hughes helped get us to the finals and Ben played a huge role in the winningest season in franchise history.

You can make sure you have cap space, but you can't make sure there will be something to spend it on (without collusion).

And yes, Gilbert has ways and will find ways to profit from the team's success even if that success costs him millions in the short term (which btw is a corporate tax write off). Another way is simply in the team's franchise value. With our team's success no longer shackled to LeBron's whims, that value will rise.

btw, I thought he was out of the casino business?

I really can't fault the Larry Bruise signing. We needed a second fiddle for LBJ, and Allen and Redd were not coming to Cleveland. Larry's injuries and declining interest in the game were a rough break, but it was clear what the organization was trying to do there, along with the signings of Marshall and amon ones.

[jbk1234]

Shelling out money just for the sake of shelling out money is how you end up signing guys like Larry Hughes, trading them for a grossly overpaid/past his prime Wallace, and calling it a win.

It was a win, Hughes helped get us to the finals and Ben played a huge role in the winningest season in franchise history.

You can make sure you have cap space, but you can't make sure there will be something to spend it on (without collusion).

And yes, Gilbert has ways and will find ways to profit from the team's success even if that success costs him millions in the short term (which btw is a corporate tax write off). Another way is simply in the team's franchise value. With our team's success no longer shackled to LeBron's whims, that value will rise.

btw, I thought he was out of the casino business?

I really can't fault the Larry Bruise signing. We needed a second fiddle for LBJ, and Allen and Redd were not coming to Cleveland. Larry's injuries and declining interest in the game were a rough break, but it was clear what the organization was trying to do there, along with the signings of Marshall and amon ones.

I'm just saying, all the extend LeVert AND re-sign Sexton folks should probably wait and see how one or both actually fit on this roster and how things work out. Sexton's sample size was small but underwhelming. LeVert hasn't played a single game for us.

[KuruptedCav]

How far off is the value:
CLE Out: Collin Sexton
OKC Out: Kenrich Williams, Mike Muscala, 2023 DEN FRP


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[jbk1234]

How far off is the value:
CLE Out: Collin Sexton
OKC Out: Kenrich Williams, Mike Muscala, 2023 DEN FRP


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FWIW https://hoopshype.com/rumor/several-teams-sniffing-around-on-collin-sexton/

[Revenged25]

It was a win, Hughes helped get us to the finals and Ben played a huge role in the winningest season in franchise history.

You can make sure you have cap space, but you can't make sure there will be something to spend it on (without collusion).

And yes, Gilbert has ways and will find ways to profit from the team's success even if that success costs him millions in the short term (which btw is a corporate tax write off). Another way is simply in the team's franchise value. With our team's success no longer shackled to LeBron's whims, that value will rise.

btw, I thought he was out of the casino business?

I really can't fault the Larry Bruise signing. We needed a second fiddle for LBJ, and Allen and Redd were not coming to Cleveland. Larry's injuries and declining interest in the game were a rough break, but it was clear what the organization was trying to do there, along with the signings of Marshall and amon ones.

I'm just saying, all the extend LeVert AND re-sign Sexton folks should probably wait and see how one or both actually fit on this roster and how things work out. Sexton's sample size was small but underwhelming. LeVert hasn't played a single game for us.

The entire team was somewhat underwhelming to start the year even though they were winning. They were still trying to figure out how they were supposed to work together with a bunch of new pieces/roles.

But I do agree we need to wait to see how LeVert plays on his extension talks and with Sexton it will obviously come down to the number as well as how other things play out.