Kyrie asked to be traded (UPDATED)

[FrigginFalcon]

As for some of the unlikely trades being suggested, there are three factors that are being ignored or minimized:

(1) Time value. If the Cavs could trade Kyrie to another team "forever," that would be great. But at this point, all the Cavs can offer is the two years left on his contract. For a team looking for that last piece to get them to the Finals, that might work, but a team like that also cannot afford to give up current assets of equal value to Kyrie. A "rebuilding" team, on the other hand, might give up more, but they'd be leery of basing their rebuilding on a 2-year commitment.

(2) Team value. Players need to fit into an overall team concept for them to contribute. Partly because of the offensive scheme at Cleveland, Kyrie really has not demonstrated that he can play at the top level as a classic point guard. There are also issues with trying to make him a shooting guard. Either way, his value to another team is not an absolute thing determined by his individual talent. It's how his talent will allow him to contribute to another team in light of that team's offensive scheme and its roster of other players. Potential suitors for Kyrie will need to consider that very carefully before giving up as much as Cleveland would want to let him go.

(3) Retention Value. If the Cavs retain Kyrie, they will have an advantage (CBA Rules) over other teams when it comes to re-signing him. And they'll have an advantage again at the 8-year mark due to the so-called "Kevin Durant Rule." Anyone the Cavs get FOR Kyrie will not present those same advantages. If I was the Cavs GM (is ANYBODY the Cavs GM right now?), I would try to convince him to stay one more year, Let LeBron make his likely exit (again) next summer, wait for the smoke of burning LBJ jerseys to dissipate, then use the cap room from his salary and a few others that can be shed next year, and rebuild AROUND Kyrie as a true point guard. If they give up Kyrie this year, then probably LeBron next year, they'll be more or less starting from scratch (plus whoever they get for Kyrie, assuming they can be retained for multiple years.

[Jingles2]

I don't think there is any chance the Suns are parting with Booker, Jackson, or Bender. Bledsoe, Chriss, and future picks are possibles.

[Profound23]

Well now we know the real reason Rose has interest in coming to the Land.
Irving should get a nice return though if they are smart about it.
my first thought was straight up for John Wall.
higher # of players in return might be found sending him to Phoenix for Bledsoe, Bender, Warren.
sending him to the Spurs for Green & Murray ( they won't trade Leo).
sending him to Boston for Isaiah , Brown & Smart.
sending him to the Timber wolves for Wiggins & Dieng.
sending him & Frye to New Orleans for Davis although unlikely would be my favorite move if the Pelicans are content with Boogie.
sending him to Denver for Chandler,Harris,Mudiay & Hernangomez. ( they are not trading Jokic)
sending him to the Bucks for Brogdan,Delly,Henson or Delly, Jabari & Maker.
lesser desirable returns but still solid:
sending him to Charlotte for Kemba & Lamb + a draft pick
sending him to detroit for Jackson Johnson & a draft pick.
sending him to NY,or Miami 2 of his preferred destinations don't offer much in return unless you want Dragic or can pry away KP.
sending him to SA or MIN his other 2 preferred destinations are more likely , but who cares what he wants.
I am not in shocked by this, but disappointed and believe he will likely regret the decision.

Wow. You are REALLY overrating kyrie. Most of these proposed deals are ludicrous and there's no way teams would give up these packages for a PG who can't defend or pass...

"Get Out the Way, Let the Real F. Ballas thru" - Juvenile

Max I would do for Kyrie
Is Crowder IT Rozier

Bucks fan here.....I will take either of those trades. I'm a huge Thon Maker fan and usually when a trade comes up involving his name I decline.....here I'm begrudgingly accepting.

[jbk1234]

Sinking ship, meet Rat. Rat, meet sinking ship. Cavs clearly had a problem at year's end. They are (were) a very good team, but with a payroll that should have been sufficient to build the world's greatest super team. There simply was no prospect of substantially improving the team while retaining all of those high salaries. Kyrie was actually a bargain this past season, but some other guys were paid far in excess of their value. Even LeBron, though clearly among the League's few top players, is hard-pressed to contribute a quarter to a third of the total horsepower needed to be NBA Champion, but he consume that fraction of the salary cap. His value is also diluted because, like Westbrook & Hardin, he is an iso-ball player. Sure, he dishes plenty of assists, like those other two, but the minute he gets tired or hits the bench, the entire flow of the team goes to hell. The Finals last month showed it clearly. Cavs couldn't sit LeBron long for fear of falling too far behind, but that just caught up to them when he got gassed at the end of the game -- he was dragging late in at least 3 of the 5 Finals games for sure.

GSW, by contrast, could sit one or even two of their Big 3 scorers without fear of giving up a big run. Their bench lacks premier scorers, but makes up for it by having strong defenders who are second-tier scorers 6 or 7 deep. In fact, guys like Iguodala, West, McGee, and Livingston could easily be 20-point-per-game scorers if they had the stamina for 35 minutes per game, so they're very good in their roles requiring 10-15 minutes as reserves. Apart from LeBron, Kyrie is the only Cav who can consistently create his own shots against top-caliber competition at playoff time. With LeBron looking more and more like a "Three-Peat" Ring Shopper next summer, it's no surprise to see Kyrie scurrying down a mooring rope to the safety of the shore.

This is straight trolling. Do it again & you'll be banned from this forum.

[FrigginFalcon]

Sinking ship, meet Rat. Rat, meet sinking ship. Cavs clearly had a problem at year's end. They are (were) a very good team, but with a payroll that should have been sufficient to build the world's greatest super team. There simply was no prospect of substantially improving the team while retaining all of those high salaries. Kyrie was actually a bargain this past season, but some other guys were paid far in excess of their value. Even LeBron, though clearly among the League's few top players, is hard-pressed to contribute a quarter to a third of the total horsepower needed to be NBA Champion, but he consume that fraction of the salary cap. His value is also diluted because, like Westbrook & Hardin, he is an iso-ball player. Sure, he dishes plenty of assists, like those other two, but the minute he gets tired or hits the bench, the entire flow of the team goes to hell. The Finals last month showed it clearly. Cavs couldn't sit LeBron long for fear of falling too far behind, but that just caught up to them when he got gassed at the end of the game -- he was dragging late in at least 3 of the 5 Finals games for sure.

GSW, by contrast, could sit one or even two of their Big 3 scorers without fear of giving up a big run. Their bench lacks premier scorers, but makes up for it by having strong defenders who are second-tier scorers 6 or 7 deep. In fact, guys like Iguodala, West, McGee, and Livingston could easily be 20-point-per-game scorers if they had the stamina for 35 minutes per game, so they're very good in their roles requiring 10-15 minutes as reserves. Apart from LeBron, Kyrie is the only Cav who can consistently create his own shots against top-caliber competition at playoff time. With LeBron looking more and more like a "Three-Peat" Ring Shopper next summer, it's no surprise to see Kyrie scurrying down a mooring rope to the safety of the shore.

This is straight trolling. Do it again & you'll be banned from this forum.

Can you explain why you consider it trolling? I understand that the post expresses opinions that may not be popular, but I did not denigrate any poster on this board. You can argue that I denigrated Kyrie, and perhaps LeBron, but as far as I know, they are not participating in these discussions. You can't troll someone who is not even reading what you post. If posting opinions that you personally don't like is grounds for banning someone, then this can hardly be called a "Discussion."

[FrigginFalcon]

If it was the "sinking ship" comment, this is a well-established expression, and it does NOT imply an actual comparison of the individual in question to a rat:

Like rats deserting a sinking ship

Meaning:

When facing a great crisis most will turn and run.

Background:

Rats have been said to be the first to sense an impending disaster, such as a sinking ship or a gas leak in a mine - so if rats are seen leaving it's a good idea to follow!

Early records of this expression go back all the way to Pliny The Elder's Natural History (77 AD): 'When a building is about to fall down, all the mice desert it'.

I actually like Kyrie and respect his talent, and I at least implied that in my post in saying that other teams would have to give up a lot for him. In any case, it was mild compared to what was said here about Kevin Durant, and undoubtedly to what was said about LeBron himself after his first "Decision." Is there a list available of people who can be insulted here, and who cannot?

[jbk1234]

Sinking ship, meet Rat. Rat, meet sinking ship. Cavs clearly had a problem at year's end. They are (were) a very good team, but with a payroll that should have been sufficient to build the world's greatest super team. There simply was no prospect of substantially improving the team while retaining all of those high salaries. Kyrie was actually a bargain this past season, but some other guys were paid far in excess of their value. Even LeBron, though clearly among the League's few top players, is hard-pressed to contribute a quarter to a third of the total horsepower needed to be NBA Champion, but he consume that fraction of the salary cap. His value is also diluted because, like Westbrook & Hardin, he is an iso-ball player. Sure, he dishes plenty of assists, like those other two, but the minute he gets tired or hits the bench, the entire flow of the team goes to hell. The Finals last month showed it clearly. Cavs couldn't sit LeBron long for fear of falling too far behind, but that just caught up to them when he got gassed at the end of the game -- he was dragging late in at least 3 of the 5 Finals games for sure.

GSW, by contrast, could sit one or even two of their Big 3 scorers without fear of giving up a big run. Their bench lacks premier scorers, but makes up for it by having strong defenders who are second-tier scorers 6 or 7 deep. In fact, guys like Iguodala, West, McGee, and Livingston could easily be 20-point-per-game scorers if they had the stamina for 35 minutes per game, so they're very good in their roles requiring 10-15 minutes as reserves. Apart from LeBron, Kyrie is the only Cav who can consistently create his own shots against top-caliber competition at playoff time. With LeBron looking more and more like a "Three-Peat" Ring Shopper next summer, it's no surprise to see Kyrie scurrying down a mooring rope to the safety of the shore.

This is straight trolling. Do it again & you'll be banned from this forum.

Can you explain why you consider it trolling? I understand that the post expresses opinions that may not be popular, but I did not denigrate any poster on this board. You can argue that I denigrated Kyrie, and perhaps LeBron, but as far as I know, they are not participating in these discussions. You can't troll someone who is not even reading what you post. If posting opinions that you personally don't like is grounds for banning someone, then this can hardly be called a "Discussion."

Look, I'm not interested in having a debate. This is the Cavs forum. Coming here and posting about how screwed the Cavs are, and how great the Warriors are, right after Kyrie demanded a trade, is trolling. You should consider yourself fortunate that all you got was a warning.

[FrigginFalcon]

OK, I reviewed this thread and some others here. It's clear that you are not interested in having a debate, or even a discussion. This is not a "Cavs" page. It is a "LOVE the Cavs or get the f*** out" page, and you are a petty tyrant and an ****, so go ahead and ban me. Nothing to see here anyway.

FWIW, and not that you are likely to care, over on the GSW page, people are actually able to express strong opinions in strong language without "Mommy" moderating us to death and without the Board going ballistic. Check out some of the comments about signing Nick Young, re-signing Zaza, or not working harder to re-sign McGee. Somehow, we manage to have strong disagreements but to do so like ADULTS. You might check to see if the GSW Mod is willing to give remedial classes.

(Oh and BTW, if I WANTED to troll the Cavs, it would have no resemblance to what I have posted here.)

(Oh and BTW, Post #2 on this very thread said: "Yeah like I said this off season is a complete disaster." No response from you. I guess calling the Cavs entire off-season a disaster is NOT trolling???)

You got your wish. Think about whether it's worth it for you to come back after your suspension is up.

[VeeJay24]

OK, I reviewed this thread and some others here. It's clear that you are not interested in having a debate, or even a discussion. This is not a "Cavs" page. It is a "LOVE the Cavs or get the f*** out" page, and you are a petty tyrant and an ****, so go ahead and ban me. Nothing to see here anyway.

FWIW, and not that you are likely to care, over on the GSW page, people are actually able to express strong opinions in strong language without "Mommy" moderating us to death and without the Board going ballistic. Check out some of the comments about signing Nick Young, re-signing Zaza, or not working harder to re-sign McGee. Somehow, we manage to have strong disagreements but to do so like ADULTS. You might check to see if the GSW Mod is willing to give remedial classes.

(Oh and BTW, if I WANTED to troll the Cavs, it would have no resemblance to what I have posted here.)

(Oh and BTW, Post #2 on this very thread said: "Yeah like I said this off season is a complete disaster." No response from you. I guess calling the Cavs entire off-season a disaster is NOT trolling???)

Stop being a bitch and bone up; You are trolling!!!!!
You may call it Passive aggressive; I call it being a pussy!!!! Mod ban his ass!!!!

[FrigginFalcon]

Well, I guess if people are as sensitive as you are, posting a weather report would be considered trolling. Call it trolling if you like, but top players are going out of their way to join other teams, lots of them (especially KD) leaving money on the table to do so, and your two best players seem likely to leave as soon as they can. Feel as trolled as you like, them is the facts.

[FrigginFalcon]

(Also, it seems clear from reviewing the other threads here and the Mod's frequent rants, it's fine to post anything as long as there is a Cavs logo over on the left under your handle. The exact same language if you favor another team, and it's automatically "trolling." Just another example of the modern love of "echo chambers.")

[Stillwater]

^^^ Don't be that guy.
The Cav's have their hands full , but if anything they will not take back a desperate trade return & will definitely come out looking better for having traded him regardless of his offensive elite skill. There a lot of returns the Cav's can and should get for this guy who is on a cheap contract for a player of his status. GSW fans should be a little concerned as opposed to trolling and mocking the org. If anything this will make the Cav's a better team after the trade is finalized.

[HeatFanLifer]

How would you all rate Kyrie's defense, health, and willingness to hustle?

[GlenRiceARoni]

LeBron is an isoball player?

I dont agree that he was trolling in that post. But that statement is frankly absurd.

LeBron is the greatest playmaking forward in league history... this is the equivalent of calling john stockton, Jason kidd, or Steve Nash an isoball player.

The only time he went isoball was out of COMPLETE NECESSITY in the 2015 finals because they had no other choice in order to not get blown out. He wasn't just ballhogging. That was literally their only chance to win the series

"Get Out the Way, Let the Real F. Ballas thru" - Juvenile

[righterwriter]

Warriors fan here. This guy is definitely trolling.

[sportscrazy]

If a deal were on the table where the Cavs trade Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert and Channing Frye for Carmelo Anthony, Eric Bledsoe and a 2018 New York Knicks First Round Draft Pick, how much protection could go on that pick before the Cavaliers wouldn't take the deal?

[Dupp]

How would you all rate Kyrie's defense, health, and willingness to hustle?

Defense? Worse than IT.

Health - Average at best. I'd be concerned about his knee somewhat

Hustle? 3/10

[jbk1234]

If a deal were on the table where the Cavs trade Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert and Channing Frye for Carmelo Anthony, Eric Bledsoe and a 2018 New York Knicks First Round Draft Pick, how much protection could go on that pick before the Cavaliers wouldn't take the deal?

See, I'm not sure most Cavs fans would even take the deal but Dupp & I are pretty pissed at Kyrie so we would.

[gflem]

If a deal were on the table where the Cavs trade Kyrie Irving, Iman Shumpert and Channing Frye for Carmelo Anthony, Eric Bledsoe and a 2018 New York Knicks First Round Draft Pick, how much protection could go on that pick before the Cavaliers wouldn't take the deal?

Zero protection, and I still might not take that deal. Maybe I undervalue Melo, but even so can Bledsoe even stay on the court? If not we are stuck with Calderone as our starter? I don't want to see that at all. Phoenix or even Utah seem to have better options for the Cavs at this point in a two team deal.
Even though I am pissed at Kyrie about the timing of this I can understand is thinking to a point. I am tired of the Lebron drama as well. I just don't think that wherever he ends up it is going to be what he thinks it will be. He may never end up going to another finals in his career if he is sent out west, not that I care but there would be something ironic about that if it does happen.

[chris4celts]

Celtics fan here throwing out a fake offer. Not saying I would do this, but is this something that might be considered (or not even close)?:

IT
Crowder
Yabusele
2018 and 2020 Celtics 1st round picks