where do the Cavs land on your crystal ball ?

[Stillwater]

I just can't

[KuruptedCav]

A balanced roster would be nice, but that’s not how the balls have popped. That’s okay.

1) Sexton isn’t a problem unless he’s on a max contract. Consider, something like 5 years @ $125mil doesn’t even make him top-50 in salary.

I understand the value of cap space, I also rarely see cap space turn into more potential than Sexton’s development curve. And as long as he isn’t obscenely overpaid, it’ll be fine. His value is low on the trade market until that contract is settled.

2) I have no idea if Jalen Green or Jalen Suggs or Evan Mobley is the answer. I have no idea if Okoro is the real deal or if Osman finds his stroke. If they earn Collin’s or Darius’ or Larry’s job, so be it. That’s a better scenario than preemptively trading a guy to clear an unimpressed path to minutes for a rookie.

3) The same thing I said about Sexton applies here for Allen.

4) Love should not be a consideration. If he plays, great, but it likely won’t be here when he does.

3) The Cavs need a SF. Unless Cade falls through time/space, it’s a problem. Mobley, Green, Suggs can’t play it. Osman was bad. Okoro is undersized.


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[jbk1234]

A balanced roster would be nice, but that’s not how the balls have popped. That’s okay.

1) Sexton isn’t a problem unless he’s on a max contract. Consider, something like 5 years @ $125mil doesn’t even make him top-50 in salary.

I understand the value of cap space, I also rarely see cap space turn into more potential than Sexton’s development curve. And as long as he isn’t obscenely overpaid, it’ll be fine. His value is low on the trade market until that contract is settled.

2) I have no idea if Jalen Green or Jalen Suggs or Evan Mobley is the answer. I have no idea if Okoro is the real deal or if Osman finds his stroke. If they earn Collin’s or Darius’ or Larry’s job, so be it. That’s a better scenario than preemptively trading a guy to clear an unimpressed path to minutes for a rookie.

3) The same thing I said about Sexton applies here for Allen.

4) Love should not be a consideration. If he plays, great, but it likely won’t be here when he does.

3) The Cavs need a SF. Unless Cade falls through time/space, it’s a problem. Mobley, Green, Suggs can’t play it. Osman was bad. Okoro is undersized.


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I disagree on No. 1. I think prematurely, and voluntarily, paying Sexton that much could be a serious issue.

First, he's poison pilled and untradable until the extension actually kicks in next summer. The Cavs can only take back his rookie salary and would have to find a team with $25M in cap space to absorb his extension number midseason. That's practically impossible.

Second, if he gets moved to the bench for any reason during the season, good luck trading a super sixth man making $125M over five years next summer. You're talking about taking back a bad contract to move him at that point.

Third, and this part is really important, as good as he is individually on offense, he gives it all back on defense. He's shown no improvement on that end in three seasons. His next contract should be the carrot for improvement on that end.

Finally, tying up that type of cap space, over a 5 year period, isn't something that you should just be okay with. You need to be certain because you're forgoing future opportunities, some of which are foreseeable and some of which you can't presently anticipate.

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[LivingLegend]

A balanced roster would be nice, but that’s not how the balls have popped. That’s okay.

1) Sexton isn’t a problem unless he’s on a max contract. Consider, something like 5 years @ $125mil doesn’t even make him top-50 in salary.

I understand the value of cap space, I also rarely see cap space turn into more potential than Sexton’s development curve. And as long as he isn’t obscenely overpaid, it’ll be fine. His value is low on the trade market until that contract is settled.

2) I have no idea if Jalen Green or Jalen Suggs or Evan Mobley is the answer. I have no idea if Okoro is the real deal or if Osman finds his stroke. If they earn Collin’s or Darius’ or Larry’s job, so be it. That’s a better scenario than preemptively trading a guy to clear an unimpressed path to minutes for a rookie.

3) The same thing I said about Sexton applies here for Allen.

4) Love should not be a consideration. If he plays, great, but it likely won’t be here when he does.

3) The Cavs need a SF. Unless Cade falls through time/space, it’s a problem. Mobley, Green, Suggs can’t play it. Osman was bad. Okoro is undersized.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I disagree on No. 1. I think prematurely, and voluntarily, paying Sexton that much could be a serious issue.

First, he's poison pilled and untradable until the extension actually kicks in next summer. The Cavs can only take back his rookie salary and would have to find a team with $25M in cap space to absorb his extension number midseason. That's practically impossible.

Second, if he gets moved to the bench for any reason during the season, good luck trading a super sixth man making $125M over five years next summer. You're talking about taking back a bad contract to move him at that point.

Third, and this part is really important, as good as he is individually on offense, he gives it all back on defense. He's shown no improvement on that end in three seasons. His next contract should be the carrot for improvement on that end.

Finally, tying up that type of cap space, over a 5 year period, isn't something that you should just be okay with. You need to be certain because you're forgoing future opportunities, some of which are foreseeable and some of which you can't presently anticipate.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

What the Cavs do with Sexton is going to be incredibly interesting, but yeah, paying him near max money then relegating him to a 6th man role would be horrific for his trade value.

Which is all the more reason the Cavs need to *** of get off the pot with Sexton. This is the year you make him a 6th man and pay him a good 6th man salary after that, you trade him now if you know he won't be in the long-term plan or lastly, you commit to him long term and pray to god your not wrong.

Either way, the Cavs need to do 1 of those things this offseason.

[Revenged25]

So here's a question, how much is an efficient 27 ppg player worth?

[jbk1234]

So here's a question, how much is an efficient 27 ppg player worth?

If we had that player it would still depend on a number of factors.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[Revenged25]

So here's a question, how much is an efficient 27 ppg player worth?

If we had that player it would still depend on a number of factors.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Well I'm just using the projection most had for Sexton. But even if we wanted to use his efficient 24 ppg, pretty sure the going rate is something like 25 mil in the NBA right?

[KuruptedCav]

A balanced roster would be nice, but that’s not how the balls have popped. That’s okay.

1) Sexton isn’t a problem unless he’s on a max contract. Consider, something like 5 years @ $125mil doesn’t even make him top-50 in salary.

I understand the value of cap space, I also rarely see cap space turn into more potential than Sexton’s development curve. And as long as he isn’t obscenely overpaid, it’ll be fine. His value is low on the trade market until that contract is settled.

2) I have no idea if Jalen Green or Jalen Suggs or Evan Mobley is the answer. I have no idea if Okoro is the real deal or if Osman finds his stroke. If they earn Collin’s or Darius’ or Larry’s job, so be it. That’s a better scenario than preemptively trading a guy to clear an unimpressed path to minutes for a rookie.

3) The same thing I said about Sexton applies here for Allen.

4) Love should not be a consideration. If he plays, great, but it likely won’t be here when he does.

3) The Cavs need a SF. Unless Cade falls through time/space, it’s a problem. Mobley, Green, Suggs can’t play it. Osman was bad. Okoro is undersized.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I disagree on No. 1. I think prematurely, and voluntarily, paying Sexton that much could be a serious issue.

First, he's poison pilled and untradable until the extension actually kicks in next summer. The Cavs can only take back his rookie salary and would have to find a team with $25M in cap space to absorb his extension number midseason. That's practically impossible.

Second, if he gets moved to the bench for any reason during the season, good luck trading a super sixth man making $125M over five years next summer. You're talking about taking back a bad contract to move him at that point.

Third, and this part is really important, as good as he is individually on offense, he gives it all back on defense. He's shown no improvement on that end in three seasons. His next contract should be the carrot for improvement on that end.

Finally, tying up that type of cap space, over a 5 year period, isn't something that you should just be okay with. You need to be certain because you're forgoing future opportunities, some of which are foreseeable and some of which you can't presently anticipate.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I’m under no delusions that he should be extended this year, and he’s in no position to demand that. I’m perfectly fine letting him play this year on his contract and making a call next summer as he hits RFA, and the risk of watching him walk.

If he earns an offer, make it. If another team makes an offer of something stupid, decline to match.

I just don’t see his potential next contract as a reason to trade him early and I don’t see his value as being so high that him walking irreversibly cripples the franchise.

Now if someone wants to provide fair value that fits better, all ears.


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[jbk1234]

So here's a question, how much is an efficient 27 ppg player worth?

If we had that player it would still depend on a number of factors.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Well I'm just using the projection most had for Sexton. But even if we wanted to use his efficient 24 ppg, pretty sure the going rate is something like 25 mil in the NBA right?

I guess the question is whether he's getting enough FGAs on another, better team to average all that, or whether a different coaching staff might rein him in some.

I mean my thoughts are pretty well known, and I don't want to make it sound like he didn't improve in terms of ball movement and assists because he did, but I'm not convinced the team's offense is more efficient with him leading the team in FGAs by as much as he does.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

[jbk1234]

A balanced roster would be nice, but that’s not how the balls have popped. That’s okay.

1) Sexton isn’t a problem unless he’s on a max contract. Consider, something like 5 years @ $125mil doesn’t even make him top-50 in salary.

I understand the value of cap space, I also rarely see cap space turn into more potential than Sexton’s development curve. And as long as he isn’t obscenely overpaid, it’ll be fine. His value is low on the trade market until that contract is settled.

2) I have no idea if Jalen Green or Jalen Suggs or Evan Mobley is the answer. I have no idea if Okoro is the real deal or if Osman finds his stroke. If they earn Collin’s or Darius’ or Larry’s job, so be it. That’s a better scenario than preemptively trading a guy to clear an unimpressed path to minutes for a rookie.

3) The same thing I said about Sexton applies here for Allen.

4) Love should not be a consideration. If he plays, great, but it likely won’t be here when he does.

3) The Cavs need a SF. Unless Cade falls through time/space, it’s a problem. Mobley, Green, Suggs can’t play it. Osman was bad. Okoro is undersized.


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I disagree on No. 1. I think prematurely, and voluntarily, paying Sexton that much could be a serious issue.

First, he's poison pilled and untradable until the extension actually kicks in next summer. The Cavs can only take back his rookie salary and would have to find a team with $25M in cap space to absorb his extension number midseason. That's practically impossible.

Second, if he gets moved to the bench for any reason during the season, good luck trading a super sixth man making $125M over five years next summer. You're talking about taking back a bad contract to move him at that point.

Third, and this part is really important, as good as he is individually on offense, he gives it all back on defense. He's shown no improvement on that end in three seasons. His next contract should be the carrot for improvement on that end.

Finally, tying up that type of cap space, over a 5 year period, isn't something that you should just be okay with. You need to be certain because you're forgoing future opportunities, some of which are foreseeable and some of which you can't presently anticipate.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I’m under no delusions that he should be extended this year, and he’s in no position to demand that. I’m perfectly fine letting him play this year on his contract and making a call next summer as he hits RFA, and the risk of watching him walk.

If he earns an offer, make it. If another team makes an offer of something stupid, decline to match.

I just don’t see his potential next contract as a reason to trade him early and I don’t see his value as being so high that him walking irreversibly cripples the franchise.

Now if someone wants to provide fair value that fits better, all ears.


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This is basically where I'm at.

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[Revenged25]

If we had that player it would still depend on a number of factors.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

Well I'm just using the projection most had for Sexton. But even if we wanted to use his efficient 24 ppg, pretty sure the going rate is something like 25 mil in the NBA right?

I guess the question is whether he's getting enough FGAs on another, better team to average all that, or whether a different coaching staff might rein him in some.

I mean my thoughts are pretty well known, and I don't want to make it sound like he didn't improve in terms of ball movement and assists because he did, but I'm not convinced the team's offense is more efficient with him leading the team in FGAs by as much as he does.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I mean that's fine to think that, but I'm just asking what do you think is the going rate for an efficient 25 ppg player. Whether you think him leading the team in FGAs or not doesn't matter. Just a purely analytical, Player X is an efficient 25 ppg player and we'll even add in defensive issues. This would cover guys like Sexton, Lavine, Booker, BI, etc in this scenario as they are just that right now, or at least close enough to the 24/25 ppg cut-off while being efficient.

[toooskies]

Well I'm just using the projection most had for Sexton. But even if we wanted to use his efficient 24 ppg, pretty sure the going rate is something like 25 mil in the NBA right?

I guess the question is whether he's getting enough FGAs on another, better team to average all that, or whether a different coaching staff might rein him in some.

I mean my thoughts are pretty well known, and I don't want to make it sound like he didn't improve in terms of ball movement and assists because he did, but I'm not convinced the team's offense is more efficient with him leading the team in FGAs by as much as he does.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I mean that's fine to think that, but I'm just asking what do you think is the going rate for an efficient 25 ppg player. Whether you think him leading the team in FGAs or not doesn't matter. Just a purely analytical, Player X is an efficient 25 ppg player and we'll even add in defensive issues. This would cover guys like Sexton, Lavine, Booker, BI, etc in this scenario as they are just that right now, or at least close enough to the 24/25 ppg cut-off while being efficient.

LaVine makes under $20m a year but signed his contract after an year he sat out with injury and never averaged more than 18 ppg. Also was traded by the team that drafted him after year 3. Does not have a legacy of winning.

Booker signed a max after his third year with a strong scoring average, and Phoenix's win totals were in the 20s.

BI signed a max after his fourth year, but was traded between his third and fourth year. Didn't average more than 18ppg before his third year, traded between year 3 and 4. Has never been on a winning team, despite being teammates with Lebron and Zion.

So yeah, the market rate for Sexton in year 5-8 regardless of what happens next year is going to be a max or near-max. Even if he isn't in the same category of player as Trae or Luka, who deliver more than max value already. If you can get him to agree to take a little less than max, you do that.

Year 3 looks like a big decision year for the team that drafts the guy-- sign him now or trade him and get value if you don't believe he'll be worth the max. Because that's the market rate.

[Revenged25]

I guess the question is whether he's getting enough FGAs on another, better team to average all that, or whether a different coaching staff might rein him in some.

I mean my thoughts are pretty well known, and I don't want to make it sound like he didn't improve in terms of ball movement and assists because he did, but I'm not convinced the team's offense is more efficient with him leading the team in FGAs by as much as he does.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J327A using RealGM mobile app

I mean that's fine to think that, but I'm just asking what do you think is the going rate for an efficient 25 ppg player. Whether you think him leading the team in FGAs or not doesn't matter. Just a purely analytical, Player X is an efficient 25 ppg player and we'll even add in defensive issues. This would cover guys like Sexton, Lavine, Booker, BI, etc in this scenario as they are just that right now, or at least close enough to the 24/25 ppg cut-off while being efficient.

LaVine makes under $20m a year but signed his contract after an year he sat out with injury and never averaged more than 18 ppg. Also was traded by the team that drafted him after year 3. Does not have a legacy of winning.

Booker signed a max after his third year with a strong scoring average, and Phoenix's win totals were in the 20s.

BI signed a max after his fourth year, but was traded between his third and fourth year. Didn't average more than 18ppg before his third year, traded between year 3 and 4. Has never been on a winning team, despite being teammates with Lebron and Zion.

So yeah, the market rate for Sexton in year 5-8 regardless of what happens next year is going to be a max or near-max. Even if he isn't in the same category of player as Trae or Luka, who deliver more than max value already. If you can get him to agree to take a little less than max, you do that.

Year 3 looks like a big decision year for the team that drafts the guy-- sign him now or trade him and get value if you don't believe he'll be worth the max. Because that's the market rate.

So we've agreed on his market value. Now here's a question I really want answered. If he's providing that value that he's getting paid for, so still being a 24+ ppg on good/great efficiency and preferably with 2-3 more 3PA to be fair, does it matter if he's providing the production from the starting line-up or from the bench?

Now if you think that even though that's the market for Sexton you'd rather get the value for him now than later or that you don't think he'd accept coming off the bench, that's fine and a different discussion. I'm just asking that if he's doing everything he's doing now, possibly more, that earned him that market value, does it matter whether he starts off on the bench or on the court?

[JonFromVA]

A balanced roster would be nice, but that’s not how the balls have popped. That’s okay.

1) Sexton isn’t a problem unless he’s on a max contract. Consider, something like 5 years @ $125mil doesn’t even make him top-50 in salary.

I understand the value of cap space, I also rarely see cap space turn into more potential than Sexton’s development curve. And as long as he isn’t obscenely overpaid, it’ll be fine. His value is low on the trade market until that contract is settled.

2) I have no idea if Jalen Green or Jalen Suggs or Evan Mobley is the answer. I have no idea if Okoro is the real deal or if Osman finds his stroke. If they earn Collin’s or Darius’ or Larry’s job, so be it. That’s a better scenario than preemptively trading a guy to clear an unimpressed path to minutes for a rookie.

3) The same thing I said about Sexton applies here for Allen.

4) Love should not be a consideration. If he plays, great, but it likely won’t be here when he does.

3) The Cavs need a SF. Unless Cade falls through time/space, it’s a problem. Mobley, Green, Suggs can’t play it. Osman was bad. Okoro is undersized.

Going to quibble with one thing, and that's regarding Okoro. I would draft Cade if he was available because he would give us so many possibilities, but Isaac was pushed way ahead of any reasonable schedule as a rookie with his defensive assignments. There will be a pay off for this eventually, but he's not too small to defend small forwards. He's probably not too small to defend PF's.

The best players in the league are going to achieve separation and get their shot off ... the key is in the little stuff like beating them to their spots, harassing and annoying them, and denying them the ball in the first place,

IMO, if a player can stay in front of another player, is physical enough to navigate screens, is strong enough to hold his ground in the paint, and perhaps most importantly wants to defend ... he can learn to give anyone (1 to 5) a hard time.

On the flip side, having length is wonderful, but guys like Mobley or Green will need to show they can overcome their lack of bulk (and/or add it).

I mean, extreme example but Trae Young actually stopped Giannis in the paint last night on a crucial possession because he got in his path before Giannis could get close enough to just lay the ball in over him.

Our problem is that when Isaac gets where we need him to be, making sure the guy we want him to cover isn't easily switched off Isaac for a far weaker defender.

[LivingLegend]

I went down a Youtube rabbit hole and Im starting to really love the potential of having Green on this roster. Somebody mentioned that while he is thin, hes really long in the arms and since hes 19--he could still physically grow. If that happens and he does reach 6'7" with a long reach, he could potentially play SF with Okoro at SG or vise versa.

Okoro/Green could hypothetically just be 'position-less' wings each night IF Green does grow a tad more.

I am now also afraid Green is receiving a ton of pre-draft hype and will be taken by the Rockets lol

I am listening to a podcast and the one thing they mentioned was how Green/Mobley could be the high end prospect that makes all of the others 'click' together. Which Im here for.

[JonFromVA]

I went down a Youtube rabbit hole and Im starting to really love the potential of having Green on this roster. Somebody mentioned that while he is thin, hes really long in the arms and since hes 19--he could still physically grow. If that happens and he does reach 6'7" with a long reach, he could potentially play SF with Okoro at SG or vise versa.

Okoro/Green could hypothetically just be 'position-less' wings each night IF Green does grow a tad more.

I am now also afraid Green is receiving a ton of pre-draft hype and will be taken by the Rockets lol

I am listening to a podcast and the one thing they mentioned was how Green/Mobley could be the high end prospect that makes all of the others 'click' together. Which Im here for.

I'm kind of curious how we should treat the statistics a player accumulates in the G-League .vs. the NCAA. Of course the level of competition is higher, but in the past the player's in the league main goal seemed to be to help make everyone look good so they might get a call up.

[Stillwater]

I went down a Youtube rabbit hole and Im starting to really love the potential of having Green on this roster. Somebody mentioned that while he is thin, hes [b]really long in the arms [/b]and since hes 19--he could still physically grow. If that happens and he does reach 6'7" with a long reach, he could potentially play SF with Okoro at SG or vise versa.

Okoro/Green could hypothetically just be 'position-less' wings each night IF Green does grow a tad more.

I am now also afraid Green is receiving a ton of pre-draft hype and will be taken by the Rockets lol

I am listening to a podcast and the one thing they mentioned was how Green/Mobley could be the high end prospect that makes all of the others 'click' together. Which Im here for.

I wish he would have gotten measured at the combine because old info says he is the same as Okoro or less

[LivingLegend]

I went down a Youtube rabbit hole and Im starting to really love the potential of having Green on this roster. Somebody mentioned that while he is thin, hes [b]really long in the arms [/b]and since hes 19--he could still physically grow. If that happens and he does reach 6'7" with a long reach, he could potentially play SF with Okoro at SG or vise versa.

Okoro/Green could hypothetically just be 'position-less' wings each night IF Green does grow a tad more.

I am now also afraid Green is receiving a ton of pre-draft hype and will be taken by the Rockets lol

I am listening to a podcast and the one thing they mentioned was how Green/Mobley could be the high end prospect that makes all of the others 'click' together. Which Im here for.

I wish he would have gotten measured at the combine because old info says he is the same as Okoro or less

Those measurements were from 2019 when he was 17/18 years old. I would have to assume he has grown since then. When you watch him on video it does look like he has some long skinny arms just from a eye test and hes most likely still growing into his body at such a young age. Might not be Brandon Ingram level of long/skinny but Green looks to be in that same mold.

[LivingLegend]

I went down a Youtube rabbit hole and Im starting to really love the potential of having Green on this roster. Somebody mentioned that while he is thin, hes really long in the arms and since hes 19--he could still physically grow. If that happens and he does reach 6'7" with a long reach, he could potentially play SF with Okoro at SG or vise versa.

Okoro/Green could hypothetically just be 'position-less' wings each night IF Green does grow a tad more.

I am now also afraid Green is receiving a ton of pre-draft hype and will be taken by the Rockets lol

I am listening to a podcast and the one thing they mentioned was how Green/Mobley could be the high end prospect that makes all of the others 'click' together. Which Im here for.

I'm kind of curious how we should treat the statistics a player accumulates in the G-League .vs. the NCAA. Of course the level of competition is higher, but in the past the player's in the league main goal seemed to be to help make everyone look good so they might get a call up.

In one of the highlights I swear I saw Jarrett Jack playing lol

[JonFromVA]

I went down a Youtube rabbit hole and Im starting to really love the potential of having Green on this roster. Somebody mentioned that while he is thin, hes really long in the arms and since hes 19--he could still physically grow. If that happens and he does reach 6'7" with a long reach, he could potentially play SF with Okoro at SG or vise versa.

Okoro/Green could hypothetically just be 'position-less' wings each night IF Green does grow a tad more.

I am now also afraid Green is receiving a ton of pre-draft hype and will be taken by the Rockets lol

I am listening to a podcast and the one thing they mentioned was how Green/Mobley could be the high end prospect that makes all of the others 'click' together. Which Im here for.

I'm kind of curious how we should treat the statistics a player accumulates in the G-League .vs. the NCAA. Of course the level of competition is higher, but in the past the player's in the league main goal seemed to be to help make everyone look good so they might get a call up.

In one of the highlights I swear I saw Jarrett Jack playing lol

You did!

I was confused, too assumed when they were interviewing him he was a coach on the staff or something.