Will they resign sexton?

[KuruptedCav]

I expect the Cavs to do something low-key smart like a S&T that utilizes him to create a salary slot with a player who isn’t guaranteed long-term, brings back a player they can test drive in a role they aren’t sure about. I don’t know that maximizing the asset is the goal so much as test-driving an opportunity while maintaining flexibility.

Example: Sexton to Minnesota for DeAngelo Russell; with the idea that DLO is a 2Guard/Backup PG. Same thing, Eric Gordon from Houston.

If the goal wasn't to maximize the asset, they might have included Collin (somehow) in the LeVert deal rather than use draft capital; but they're letting things play out which suggests to me they're content to either get what they want, match any deal, or worst case let Collin walk if there actually was a team willing to pay him more than we're willing to match.

While I think it's a possibility they're trying to hold on to cap flexibility for 2023, one way to work around that is by having movable neutral or positive assets on the roster (aka salary that can be dumped if needed or included in a S&T).

An expiring contract is considered an asset, but technically it's equivalent to a player another team is willing to absorb. It's "net neutral" other than the fact it can be used to spend over the cap.

The better option is to develop positive assets that you believe are minimally neutral. To achieve that you just need to know another team is interested in a player at the salary we paid. That's exactly the case if we end up matching another team's offer for Collin, and it was also believed to be the case when we traded for Lauri and Caris (at least the time there were other team's interested).

There is a difference between maximizing an asset and selling for pennies on the dollar. Deals are allowed to be fair or to pay a premium one way or another to fix fit.

And there is a chance Sexton has more value to another franchise than he does to the Cavs, and vice versa.


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[JonFromVA]

I expect the Cavs to do something low-key smart like a S&T that utilizes him to create a salary slot with a player who isn’t guaranteed long-term, brings back a player they can test drive in a role they aren’t sure about. I don’t know that maximizing the asset is the goal so much as test-driving an opportunity while maintaining flexibility.

Example: Sexton to Minnesota for DeAngelo Russell; with the idea that DLO is a 2Guard/Backup PG. Same thing, Eric Gordon from Houston.

If the goal wasn't to maximize the asset, they might have included Collin (somehow) in the LeVert deal rather than use draft capital; but they're letting things play out which suggests to me they're content to either get what they want, match any deal, or worst case let Collin walk if there actually was a team willing to pay him more than we're willing to match.

While I think it's a possibility they're trying to hold on to cap flexibility for 2023, one way to work around that is by having movable neutral or positive assets on the roster (aka salary that can be dumped if needed or included in a S&T).

An expiring contract is considered an asset, but technically it's equivalent to a player another team is willing to absorb. It's "net neutral" other than the fact it can be used to spend over the cap.

The better option is to develop positive assets that you believe are minimally neutral. To achieve that you just need to know another team is interested in a player at the salary we paid. That's exactly the case if we end up matching another team's offer for Collin, and it was also believed to be the case when we traded for Lauri and Caris (at least the time there were other team's interested).

There is a difference between maximizing an asset and selling for pennies on the dollar. Deals are allowed to be fair or to pay a premium one way or another to fix fit.

And there is a chance Sexton has more value to another franchise than he does to the Cavs, and vice versa.

I'm just equating a deal that would bring back Russell to play backup PG or Gordon who we could have had at the deadline, with trading Sexton and getting back LeVert (the guy we preferred).

Basically pegging Collin's value at that of a late first round pick ... not pennies on the dollar, but sort of in the something is better than nothing category.

Maybe that's his value around the league, but it's not what the Cavs want for him, so the question really is when push comes to shove will the Cavs prefer to move on and just take something for Collin? Or will they use their matching rights (or the threat of them) to retain Collin in hopes one way (he helps the team) or another (he's swapped somewhere down the line) they will eventually end up better.

[KuruptedCav]

If the goal wasn't to maximize the asset, they might have included Collin (somehow) in the LeVert deal rather than use draft capital; but they're letting things play out which suggests to me they're content to either get what they want, match any deal, or worst case let Collin walk if there actually was a team willing to pay him more than we're willing to match.

While I think it's a possibility they're trying to hold on to cap flexibility for 2023, one way to work around that is by having movable neutral or positive assets on the roster (aka salary that can be dumped if needed or included in a S&T).

An expiring contract is considered an asset, but technically it's equivalent to a player another team is willing to absorb. It's "net neutral" other than the fact it can be used to spend over the cap.

The better option is to develop positive assets that you believe are minimally neutral. To achieve that you just need to know another team is interested in a player at the salary we paid. That's exactly the case if we end up matching another team's offer for Collin, and it was also believed to be the case when we traded for Lauri and Caris (at least the time there were other team's interested).

There is a difference between maximizing an asset and selling for pennies on the dollar. Deals are allowed to be fair or to pay a premium one way or another to fix fit.

And there is a chance Sexton has more value to another franchise than he does to the Cavs, and vice versa.

I'm just equating a deal that would bring back Russell to play backup PG or Gordon who we could have had at the deadline, with trading Sexton and getting back LeVert (the guy we preferred).

Basically pegging Collin's value at that of a late first round pick ... not pennies on the dollar, but sort of in the something is better than nothing category.

Maybe that's his value around the league, but it's not what the Cavs want for him, so the question really is when push comes to shove will the Cavs prefer to move on and just take something for Collin? Or will they use their matching rights (or the threat of them) to retain Collin in hopes one way (he helps the team) or another (he's swapped somewhere down the line) they will eventually end up better.

While I’d agree that a signed Sexton has more value than an expiring DLO; I’d also have to state the idea of a 2PG back court with Garland/Russell that frees the Cavs best shooter to play off-ball as part of an offense is intriguing.

I’d also be interested in the ball movement that a Garland/DLO/LeVert triad would have; and the matchup potential of a wing of DLO, Okoro, LeVert, Markkenan.

Less interested in a Gordon swap unless it was Gordon plus; but, there again is intrigue in seeing the Cavs with a volume 3pt shooter at the off-guard position. If I saw Eric Gordon work I’d at least know that’s what the player looks like and validate or invalidate jbk.

And don’t get me wrong, I’m a big Collin fan. But, I also don’t think he can play the point, which limits his positional flexibility and makes the team more difficult to build.

If Mobley learns to shoot like Bridges/Washington in Charlotte, than Terry Rozier makes more sense. But, do you pay a player on how good someone else makes him?


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[jbk1234]

Base Year Compensation restrictions make most of these trades impossible. If he's being signed for $20M per or more, Sexton is going to have to go out for two players making half as much with only one coming back to the Cavs.

[Revenged25]

Base Year Compensation restrictions make most of these trades impossible. If he's being signed for $20M per or more, Sexton is going to have to go out for two players making half as much with only one coming back to the Cavs.

Doesn't that only apply to players that signed an extension ahead of time. Since Sexton would've had no contract and then signed his extension wouldn't it be the current year salary?

For example since Trae was prior to the end of his rookie contract, then it would've applied as he was still operating on a smaller cap number prior to the extension. This year though, since Trae's extension would've been considered kicked in, they would just need to match the current cap number like normal.

[jbk1234]

Base Year Compensation restrictions make most of these trades impossible. If he's being signed for $20M per or more, Sexton is going to have to go out for two players making half as much with only one coming back to the Cavs.

Doesn't that only apply to players that signed an extension ahead of time. Since Sexton would've had no contract and then signed his extension wouldn't it be the current year salary?

For example since Trae was prior to the end of his rookie contract, then it would've applied as he was still operating on a smaller cap number prior to the extension. This year though, since Trae's extension would've been considered kicked in, they would just need to match the current cap number like normal.

I'm pretty sure it applies to RFAs who are tendered the Q.O.

[KuruptedCav]

Base Year Compensation restrictions make most of these trades impossible. If he's being signed for $20M per or more, Sexton is going to have to go out for two players making half as much with only one coming back to the Cavs.

Doesn't that only apply to players that signed an extension ahead of time. Since Sexton would've had no contract and then signed his extension wouldn't it be the current year salary?

For example since Trae was prior to the end of his rookie contract, then it would've applied as he was still operating on a smaller cap number prior to the extension. This year though, since Trae's extension would've been considered kicked in, they would just need to match the current cap number like normal.

I'm pretty sure it applies to RFAs who are tendered the Q.O.

It should, but the Cavs have options to bring in a 3rd team to make everything work.

With Love, LeVert, Osman, Windler, Wade and then the use of Lauri or Isaac if targeting the right player, I’m less concerned with Altman figuring out the nuts and bolts than the picture.


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[jbk1234]

Doesn't that only apply to players that signed an extension ahead of time. Since Sexton would've had no contract and then signed his extension wouldn't it be the current year salary?

For example since Trae was prior to the end of his rookie contract, then it would've applied as he was still operating on a smaller cap number prior to the extension. This year though, since Trae's extension would've been considered kicked in, they would just need to match the current cap number like normal.

I'm pretty sure it applies to RFAs who are tendered the Q.O.

It should, but the Cavs have options to bring in a 3rd team to make everything work.

With Love, LeVert, Osman, Windler, Wade and then the use of Lauri or Isaac if targeting the right player, I’m less concerned with Altman figuring out the nuts and bolts than the picture.


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It's really hard to do it that way in a BYC trade. You can't attach contracts to make up the difference as the team sending the recently signed player.

Honestly, I have zero interest in trading for DLo at $30M per when he'll end up getting moved to the bench here. You can get shooters for far less than that and DLo really doesn't do anything else well.

I don't want to keep Sexton at $20M per, but that's the better option.

[toooskies]

Detroit falling to #5 instead of #1-3 means they'll have a good chance of drafting Ivey or Sharpe. That may take them out of the running for Sexton.

[Wisedude]

Hope the Cavs are ready to move on from Sexton and trade him but they do need to get value for him that can make the team better whether it is a NBA player or a draft pick. If they cannot trade him, do not sign him to an extension and see what happens a year from now - maybe a sign and trade at that time.

[JonFromVA]

Hope the Cavs are ready to move on from Sexton and trade him but they do need to get value for him that can make the team better whether it is a NBA player or a draft pick. If they cannot trade him, do not sign him to an extension and see what happens a year from now - maybe a sign and trade at that time.

His rookie deal is over ... have to sign him or s&t to recoup anything further.

[toooskies]

If I didn't want him on the roster I'd still plan to sign him to a reasonable deal (<$20m) and trade him at the deadline if fit is still an issue. S&T options are pretty limiting when no one has cap space.

[JonFromVA]

If I didn't want him on the roster I'd still plan to sign him to a reasonable deal (<$20m) and trade him at the deadline if fit is still an issue. S&T options are pretty limiting when no one has cap space.

BYC may kick in on that scenario ... and it's walking a tight rope to expect he will still be worth that money to another team and yet didn't prove to be worth it to us.

Preserving assets makes sense on the surface, but unless were willing to try to make it work - we may be better off letting him walk than risk losing more value on a player we don't really want. Not to mention JBB isn't going to sacrifice winning just to pump up a player's trade value.

Ideally we sign him with a role in mind and an agreement that role can change depending what's best for the team ... but it's not an ideal situation.

[jbk1234]

If I didn't want him on the roster I'd still plan to sign him to a reasonable deal (<$20m) and trade him at the deadline if fit is still an issue. S&T options are pretty limiting when no one has cap space.

BYC may kick in on that scenario ... and it's walking a tight rope to expect he will still be worth that money to another team and yet didn't prove to be worth it to us.

Preserving assets makes sense on the surface, but unless were willing to try to make it work - we may be better off letting him walk than risk losing more value on a player we don't really want. Not to mention JBB isn't going to sacrifice winning just to pump up a player's trade value.

Ideally we sign him with a role in mind and an agreement that role can change depending what's best for the team ... but it's not an ideal situation.

The only way it works is if the Cavs offer is the best offer even after he's explored the market and other teams also tell him he's a sixth man. That way it's not so much that the Cavs don't believe in him, as the Cavs who rewarded him by offering more.

There's noise that LaVine could leave the Bulls and I feel like Sexton could start on a team with Vuc and Ball. Whether the Bulls are able to overcome the defensive limitations of starting Vuc and Sexton would be another matter. But I'd be fine with a S&T that returned Coby White as a backup PG.

[KuruptedCav]

If I didn't want him on the roster I'd still plan to sign him to a reasonable deal (<$20m) and trade him at the deadline if fit is still an issue. S&T options are pretty limiting when no one has cap space.

BYC may kick in on that scenario ... and it's walking a tight rope to expect he will still be worth that money to another team and yet didn't prove to be worth it to us.

Preserving assets makes sense on the surface, but unless were willing to try to make it work - we may be better off letting him walk than risk losing more value on a player we don't really want. Not to mention JBB isn't going to sacrifice winning just to pump up a player's trade value.

Ideally we sign him with a role in mind and an agreement that role can change depending what's best for the team ... but it's not an ideal situation.

The only way it works is if the Cavs offer is the best offer even after he's explored the market and other teams also tell him he's a sixth man. That way it's not so much that the Cavs don't believe in him, as the Cavs who rewarded him by offering more.

There's noise that LaVine could leave the Bulls and I feel like Sexton could start on a team with Vuc and Ball. Whether the Bulls are able to overcome the defensive limitations of starting Vuc and Sexton would be another matter. But I'd be fine with a S&T that returned Coby White as a backup PG.

Coby White would make an excellent SG on this team. 30mpg as a backup PG sharing the court with Darius for 15-20mpg per game.


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[toooskies]

BYC may kick in on that scenario ... and it's walking a tight rope to expect he will still be worth that money to another team and yet didn't prove to be worth it to us.

Preserving assets makes sense on the surface, but unless were willing to try to make it work - we may be better off letting him walk than risk losing more value on a player we don't really want. Not to mention JBB isn't going to sacrifice winning just to pump up a player's trade value.

Ideally we sign him with a role in mind and an agreement that role can change depending what's best for the team ... but it's not an ideal situation.

The only way it works is if the Cavs offer is the best offer even after he's explored the market and other teams also tell him he's a sixth man. That way it's not so much that the Cavs don't believe in him, as the Cavs who rewarded him by offering more.

There's noise that LaVine could leave the Bulls and I feel like Sexton could start on a team with Vuc and Ball. Whether the Bulls are able to overcome the defensive limitations of starting Vuc and Sexton would be another matter. But I'd be fine with a S&T that returned Coby White as a backup PG.

Coby White would make an excellent SG on this team. 30mpg as a backup PG sharing the court with Darius for 15-20mpg per game.


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We should try to get LaVine instead.

[KuruptedCav]

The only way it works is if the Cavs offer is the best offer even after he's explored the market and other teams also tell him he's a sixth man. That way it's not so much that the Cavs don't believe in him, as the Cavs who rewarded him by offering more.

There's noise that LaVine could leave the Bulls and I feel like Sexton could start on a team with Vuc and Ball. Whether the Bulls are able to overcome the defensive limitations of starting Vuc and Sexton would be another matter. But I'd be fine with a S&T that returned Coby White as a backup PG.

Coby White would make an excellent SG on this team. 30mpg as a backup PG sharing the court with Darius for 15-20mpg per game.


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We should try to get LaVine instead.

Sexton, Okoro, Osman and at least a pick plus the max slot. I’d do it.


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[jbk1234]

Coby White would make an excellent SG on this team. 30mpg as a backup PG sharing the court with Darius for 15-20mpg per game.


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We should try to get LaVine instead.

Sexton, Okoro, Osman and at least a pick plus the max slot. I’d do it.


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I'd roll the dice on Sexton first, at half the salary, and we all know how I feel about that.

I want no part of LaVine on a max deal. His defense is awful, he has no interest in improving it, and he hasn't shown he can play within an offense where he's not the focal point.

He's, at least, one tier below a true max player. This isn't a rookie max either. It's a vet max. This is Tobias Harris territory and that might be optimistic.

[KuruptedCav]

We should try to get LaVine instead.

Sexton, Okoro, Osman and at least a pick plus the max slot. I’d do it.


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I'd roll the dice on Sexton first, at half the salary, and we all know how I feel about that.

I want no part of LaVine on a max deal. His defense is awful, he has no interest in improving it, and he hasn't shown he can play within an offense where he's not the focal point.

He's, at least, one tier below a true max player. This isn't a rookie max either. It's a vet max. This is Tobias Harris territory and that might be optimistic.

Maybe, but LaVine is the optimistic case for Sexton (playmaking and volume shooting); so paying a premium to lock that in with Allen, Mobley, Garland seems reasonable.

I don’t buy the Harris comparison. 0x all-star Harris on a 5 year 30% max with 8.5% raises coming off a career year is always going to be worse than 2x all-star LaVine on a 4 year 30% max with 5% raises. And that’s before the positional premium.

Honestly don’t see the luxury tax as an impediment given Gilbert’s wealth & health.


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[jbk1234]

Sexton, Okoro, Osman and at least a pick plus the max slot. I’d do it.


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I'd roll the dice on Sexton first, at half the salary, and we all know how I feel about that.

I want no part of LaVine on a max deal. His defense is awful, he has no interest in improving it, and he hasn't shown he can play within an offense where he's not the focal point.

He's, at least, one tier below a true max player. This isn't a rookie max either. It's a vet max. This is Tobias Harris territory and that might be optimistic.

Maybe, but LaVine is the optimistic case for Sexton (playmaking and volume shooting); so paying a premium to lock that in with Allen, Mobley, Garland seems reasonable.

I don’t buy the Harris comparison. 0x all-star Harris on a 5 year 30% max with 8.5% raises coming off a career year is always going to be worse than 2x all-star LaVine on a 4 year 30% max with 5% raises. And that’s before the positional premium.

Honestly don’t see the luxury tax as an impediment given Gilbert’s wealth & health.


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The impediment would be he'd be on a really bad contract that would prove difficult to trade if issues arose with Allen, Mobley, and Garland due to his *volume shooting.*

We were a very unselfish team for the first time in three years last year. Everyone ate. People were happy. Also, no one cares about Dan Gilbert's money. It's the opportunity cost that comes with overpaying players in a league that has a salary cap and luxury tax line.