Trade Ideas

[jbk1234]

I really can't fault the Larry Bruise signing. We needed a second fiddle for LBJ, and Allen and Redd were not coming to Cleveland. Larry's injuries and declining interest in the game were a rough break, but it was clear what the organization was trying to do there, along with the signings of Marshall and amon ones.

I'm just saying, all the extend LeVert AND re-sign Sexton folks should probably wait and see how one or both actually fit on this roster and how things work out. Sexton's sample size was small but underwhelming. LeVert hasn't played a single game for us.

The entire team was somewhat underwhelming to start the year even though they were winning. They were still trying to figure out how they were supposed to work together with a bunch of new pieces/roles.

But I do agree we need to wait to see how LeVert plays on his extension talks and with Sexton it will obviously come down to the number as well as how other things play out.

Yeah there's good reason to believe that both LeVert and Sexton would struggle revising their games to the point where they fit well with a core of Garland, Mobley, and Allen. Locking either of them on long-term deals before you've seen it work, versus projected it working, is foolish IMO.

[Revenged25]

I'm just saying, all the extend LeVert AND re-sign Sexton folks should probably wait and see how one or both actually fit on this roster and how things work out. Sexton's sample size was small but underwhelming. LeVert hasn't played a single game for us.

The entire team was somewhat underwhelming to start the year even though they were winning. They were still trying to figure out how they were supposed to work together with a bunch of new pieces/roles.

But I do agree we need to wait to see how LeVert plays on his extension talks and with Sexton it will obviously come down to the number as well as how other things play out.

Yeah there's good reason to believe that both LeVert and Sexton would struggle revising their games to the point where they fit well with a core of Garland, Mobley, and Allen. Locking either of them on long-term deals before you've seen it work, versus projected it working, is foolish IMO.

I have more faith that Sexton could than LeVert considering Sexton was already trying to adjust and play in a new role. Honestly if his shot was falling better to start the year it wouldn't have looked nearly as bad, just Sexton was in a shooting slump and didn't get a chance to show waht it would be once he got out of it like Lauri did.

[jbk1234]

The entire team was somewhat underwhelming to start the year even though they were winning. They were still trying to figure out how they were supposed to work together with a bunch of new pieces/roles.

But I do agree we need to wait to see how LeVert plays on his extension talks and with Sexton it will obviously come down to the number as well as how other things play out.

Yeah there's good reason to believe that both LeVert and Sexton would struggle revising their games to the point where they fit well with a core of Garland, Mobley, and Allen. Locking either of them on long-term deals before you've seen it work, versus projected it working, is foolish IMO.

I have more faith that Sexton could than LeVert considering Sexton was already trying to adjust and play in a new role. Honestly if his shot was falling better to start the year it wouldn't have looked nearly as bad, just Sexton was in a shooting slump and didn't get a chance to show waht it would be once he got out of it like Lauri did.

I understand people like Sexton, but his defense is a problem as a starter, and unlike Lauri, it's a significant problem when he's not playing well offensively because he doesn't contribute in other ways. Also, Lauri's mere presence has gravity as teams know he'll still shoot it from outside, even in a slump, as to where Sexton will put the ball on the floor and drive.

I'm not heartless, I feel bad for the young man as his opportunity to show he was as capable as his supporters believe him to be was cut short. But, I don't share his supporters optimism, and the addition of LeVert, as well as Sexton's contract status, all make it very difficult to see a path forward for him here.

[JonFromVA]

How far off is the value:
CLE Out: Collin Sexton
OKC Out: Kenrich Williams, Mike Muscala, 2023 DEN FRP

I think if the Cavs are going to back off from wanting a lottery pick for Collin or a young near All-Star caliber player it would be for a package like you're proposing that fills out the team with some of our needs like you've done. The specifics you've proposed can be debated but it really doesn't matter because it's unlikely the Cavs would pull off that exact deal. It's more about the concept which I think has merit.

To jbk1234's point, making such a move now (as opposed to after the season) means either trusting LeVert is going to give us what we want or that a decision has already been made that Collin is not in our plans, and we might as well trade him for players we can use right now.

So I guess I'm going to beat on one of my drums ... which is while as fans we want as much information we can get before making a decision, the Cavs front office is supposed to be able to evaluate talent & fit and make moves without all the on-court evidence. So, if Altman has a picture in his head of how this team should be constructed, nothing should stop him from trying to get there as soon as he can pull off the moves.

The Cavs clearly weren't just kicking tires on LeVert, they identified him and moved on him - possibly even paying a little more than if they let it play out to the deadline in exchange for the surety that we'd get him. Doing so, does let us consider trades for Collin that will bring in additional help and avoid any S&T/QO controversy in the post-season. If Collin is unhappy with that outcome, he should tell his new agent to contact the Cavs ASAP and let them know - otherwise the presumption is that Klutch will try to do whatever it takes to get Collin paid including potentially leveraging the fact they represent Garland and he's due for an extension.

Trade Collin now? No worries later.

[KuruptedCav]

Yeah there's good reason to believe that both LeVert and Sexton would struggle revising their games to the point where they fit well with a core of Garland, Mobley, and Allen. Locking either of them on long-term deals before you've seen it work, versus projected it working, is foolish IMO.

I have more faith that Sexton could than LeVert considering Sexton was already trying to adjust and play in a new role. Honestly if his shot was falling better to start the year it wouldn't have looked nearly as bad, just Sexton was in a shooting slump and didn't get a chance to show waht it would be once he got out of it like Lauri did.

I understand people like Sexton, but his defense is a problem as a starter, and unlike Lauri, it's a significant problem when he's not playing well offensively because he doesn't contribute in other ways. Also, Lauri's mere presence has gravity as teams know he'll still shoot it from outside, even in a slump, as to where Sexton will put the ball on the floor and drive.

I'm not heartless, I feel bad for the young man as his opportunity to show he was as capable as his supporters believe him to be was cut short. But, I don't share his supporters optimism, and the addition of LeVert, as well as Sexton's contract status, all make it very difficult to see a path forward for him here.

Until Lauri, Caris and a few draft picks go to NO for Ingram!


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

[jbk1234]

I have more faith that Sexton could than LeVert considering Sexton was already trying to adjust and play in a new role. Honestly if his shot was falling better to start the year it wouldn't have looked nearly as bad, just Sexton was in a shooting slump and didn't get a chance to show waht it would be once he got out of it like Lauri did.

I understand people like Sexton, but his defense is a problem as a starter, and unlike Lauri, it's a significant problem when he's not playing well offensively because he doesn't contribute in other ways. Also, Lauri's mere presence has gravity as teams know he'll still shoot it from outside, even in a slump, as to where Sexton will put the ball on the floor and drive.

I'm not heartless, I feel bad for the young man as his opportunity to show he was as capable as his supporters believe him to be was cut short. But, I don't share his supporters optimism, and the addition of LeVert, as well as Sexton's contract status, all make it very difficult to see a path forward for him here.

Until Lauri, Caris and a few draft picks go to NO for Ingram!


Sent from my iPhone using RealGM mobile app

I think it more likely that Griffin further depletes the Pelicans war chest this summer and trades for Turner. The guy has an M.O.

[JonFromVA]

The entire team was somewhat underwhelming to start the year even though they were winning. They were still trying to figure out how they were supposed to work together with a bunch of new pieces/roles.

But I do agree we need to wait to see how LeVert plays on his extension talks and with Sexton it will obviously come down to the number as well as how other things play out.

Yeah there's good reason to believe that both LeVert and Sexton would struggle revising their games to the point where they fit well with a core of Garland, Mobley, and Allen. Locking either of them on long-term deals before you've seen it work, versus projected it working, is foolish IMO.

I have more faith that Sexton could than LeVert considering Sexton was already trying to adjust and play in a new role. Honestly if his shot was falling better to start the year it wouldn't have looked nearly as bad, just Sexton was in a shooting slump and didn't get a chance to show waht it would be once he got out of it like Lauri did.

Oh, we'll see rather quickly LeVert is a better short-term fit than Collin on both ends of the floor. The decision point is how much do we have to pay to see what kind of player Collin will be in a few years? Is that a risk we really need to take?

And still, Collin isn't going to grow 5". So, even if he learns how to run a team in that span, well, our future PG is already identified.

Now, if we don't believe Caris can stay healthy, well, that's where we could still use Ricky Rubio or a similar player; but we don't need to pay $20M/yr for a decent backup PG.

I still think there's a path where we keep Collin. I wouldn't feel like we're forced to trade him, but for the right deal that can help us now and down the line? Absolutely.

[JonFromVA]

The entire team was somewhat underwhelming to start the year even though they were winning. They were still trying to figure out how they were supposed to work together with a bunch of new pieces/roles.

But I do agree we need to wait to see how LeVert plays on his extension talks and with Sexton it will obviously come down to the number as well as how other things play out.

Yeah there's good reason to believe that both LeVert and Sexton would struggle revising their games to the point where they fit well with a core of Garland, Mobley, and Allen. Locking either of them on long-term deals before you've seen it work, versus projected it working, is foolish IMO.

I have more faith that Sexton could than LeVert considering Sexton was already trying to adjust and play in a new role. Honestly if his shot was falling better to start the year it wouldn't have looked nearly as bad, just Sexton was in a shooting slump and didn't get a chance to show waht it would be once he got out of it like Lauri did.

What we were asking Collin to do is not something we will ask LeVert to do. I realize he has a reputation as a black hole, but IMO it's a skill set thing. LeVert has the ability to go slower, he can run the P&R. It's just going to go easier than trying to reprogram Collin who's a bullet with limited court vision.

[Revenged25]

Yeah there's good reason to believe that both LeVert and Sexton would struggle revising their games to the point where they fit well with a core of Garland, Mobley, and Allen. Locking either of them on long-term deals before you've seen it work, versus projected it working, is foolish IMO.

I have more faith that Sexton could than LeVert considering Sexton was already trying to adjust and play in a new role. Honestly if his shot was falling better to start the year it wouldn't have looked nearly as bad, just Sexton was in a shooting slump and didn't get a chance to show waht it would be once he got out of it like Lauri did.

Oh, we'll see rather quickly LeVert is a better short-term fit than Collin on both ends of the floor. The decision point is how much do we have to pay to see what kind of player Collin will be in a few years? Is that a risk we really need to take?

And still, Collin isn't going to grow 5". So, even if he learns how to run a team in that span, well, our future PG is already identified.

Now, if we don't believe Caris can stay healthy, well, that's where we could still use Ricky Rubio or a similar player; but we don't need to pay $20M/yr for a decent backup PG.

I still think there's a path where we keep Collin. I wouldn't feel like we're forced to trade him, but for the right deal that can help us now and down the line? Absolutely.

I mean LeVert isn't any better of a defender than Sexton even though he's 5" taller. I think height gets a little overrated on this board at times.

[JonFromVA]

I have more faith that Sexton could than LeVert considering Sexton was already trying to adjust and play in a new role. Honestly if his shot was falling better to start the year it wouldn't have looked nearly as bad, just Sexton was in a shooting slump and didn't get a chance to show waht it would be once he got out of it like Lauri did.

Oh, we'll see rather quickly LeVert is a better short-term fit than Collin on both ends of the floor. The decision point is how much do we have to pay to see what kind of player Collin will be in a few years? Is that a risk we really need to take?

And still, Collin isn't going to grow 5". So, even if he learns how to run a team in that span, well, our future PG is already identified.

Now, if we don't believe Caris can stay healthy, well, that's where we could still use Ricky Rubio or a similar player; but we don't need to pay $20M/yr for a decent backup PG.

I still think there's a path where we keep Collin. I wouldn't feel like we're forced to trade him, but for the right deal that can help us now and down the line? Absolutely.

I mean LeVert isn't any better of a defender than Sexton even though he's 5" taller. I think height gets a little overrated on this board at times.

Yes, height/wingspan isn't everything (even though some think it is), but I'm getting the impression from the things I've read about LeVert that he will be a much better defender than Collin and then of course he will be able to take advantage of the fact we have tower city protecting the rim.

Again, it's to our advantage that Allen has played with Caris and knows all the little things that the FO wants to know that we don't necessarily know ... like how does he work out, how is he in the locker-room, does he accept coaching, does he study film and listen to the scouting report, does he stay engaged on the floor or does he lose focus, etc, etc.

The Pacers starting lineup was actually quite effective, +11.3 with Duarte and +7 with Holiday, but they just seem to lack the depth they would have needed to survive the injuries they've suffered.

[Revenged25]

Oh, we'll see rather quickly LeVert is a better short-term fit than Collin on both ends of the floor. The decision point is how much do we have to pay to see what kind of player Collin will be in a few years? Is that a risk we really need to take?

And still, Collin isn't going to grow 5". So, even if he learns how to run a team in that span, well, our future PG is already identified.

Now, if we don't believe Caris can stay healthy, well, that's where we could still use Ricky Rubio or a similar player; but we don't need to pay $20M/yr for a decent backup PG.

I still think there's a path where we keep Collin. I wouldn't feel like we're forced to trade him, but for the right deal that can help us now and down the line? Absolutely.

I mean LeVert isn't any better of a defender than Sexton even though he's 5" taller. I think height gets a little overrated on this board at times.

Yes, height/wingspan isn't everything (even though some think it is), but I'm getting the impression from the things I've read about LeVert that he will be a much better defender than Collin and then of course he will be able to take advantage of the fact we have tower city protecting the rim.

Again, it's to our advantage that Allen has played with Caris and knows all the little things that the FO wants to know that we don't necessarily know ... like how does he work out, how is he in the locker-room, does he accept coaching, does he study film and listen to the scouting report, does he stay engaged on the floor or does he lose focus, etc, etc.

The Pacers starting lineup was actually quite effective, +11.3 with Duarte and +7 with Holiday, but they just seem to lack the depth they would have needed to survive the injuries they've suffered.

Don't get me wrong, I actually wanted the Cavs to make a run for LeVert in FA originally before he extended with the Nets, so I like his overall game, I just think that some of the discussion is boosting LeVert in an attempt to tear down Sexton when it's not really being honest about the situation. Also if we can afford it having Sexton and LeVert would never be a bad thing as it means at least one would be coming off the bench, likely Sexton with Okoro as they play really well together and could help cover for each others weaknesses.

[toooskies]

I mean LeVert isn't any better of a defender than Sexton even though he's 5" taller. I think height gets a little overrated on this board at times.

Yes, height/wingspan isn't everything (even though some think it is), but I'm getting the impression from the things I've read about LeVert that he will be a much better defender than Collin and then of course he will be able to take advantage of the fact we have tower city protecting the rim.

Again, it's to our advantage that Allen has played with Caris and knows all the little things that the FO wants to know that we don't necessarily know ... like how does he work out, how is he in the locker-room, does he accept coaching, does he study film and listen to the scouting report, does he stay engaged on the floor or does he lose focus, etc, etc.

The Pacers starting lineup was actually quite effective, +11.3 with Duarte and +7 with Holiday, but they just seem to lack the depth they would have needed to survive the injuries they've suffered.

Don't get me wrong, I actually wanted the Cavs to make a run for LeVert in FA originally before he extended with the Nets, so I like his overall game, I just think that some of the discussion is boosting LeVert in an attempt to tear down Sexton when it's not really being honest about the situation. Also if we can afford it having Sexton and LeVert would never be a bad thing as it means at least one would be coming off the bench, likely Sexton with Okoro as they play really well together and could help cover for each others weaknesses.

Well, it's easy to see how the backcourt gets a bit crowded next year. You can play Sexton at the 1 or the 2, but he's best at the 2 thus far in his career. You can play Okoro at the 2 or the 3 but he's best at the 2 thus far in his career. You can play LeVert 1 through 3, theoretically, but he's also probably best at the 2. Especially if we want to keep Markkanen at the 3 for now.

So there's a crunch coming next year (if we keep Sexton) that will involve playing guys outside their ideal positions and roles. LeVert is absolutely auditioning for the second guard role that Sexton started this year with. And since none of the 2s are ideal backup PGs, they might be splitting minutes with Goodwin or a re-signed Rubio or some other backup PG in the backcourt as well. You can squeeze Okoro or LeVert to the 3, but then that leads to a crunch with Markkanen and Osman there, unless you push Markkanen back to being a big...

Just saying, the LeVert acquisition is great for this year but it leaves us with more guys than roles, and that's before you start giving guys like Stevens or Wade or Windler any minutes. (And you know JBB is going to want to give Stevens his minutes when the defense needs to turn up a notch.)

[jbk1234]

Yes, height/wingspan isn't everything (even though some think it is), but I'm getting the impression from the things I've read about LeVert that he will be a much better defender than Collin and then of course he will be able to take advantage of the fact we have tower city protecting the rim.

Again, it's to our advantage that Allen has played with Caris and knows all the little things that the FO wants to know that we don't necessarily know ... like how does he work out, how is he in the locker-room, does he accept coaching, does he study film and listen to the scouting report, does he stay engaged on the floor or does he lose focus, etc, etc.

The Pacers starting lineup was actually quite effective, +11.3 with Duarte and +7 with Holiday, but they just seem to lack the depth they would have needed to survive the injuries they've suffered.

Don't get me wrong, I actually wanted the Cavs to make a run for LeVert in FA originally before he extended with the Nets, so I like his overall game, I just think that some of the discussion is boosting LeVert in an attempt to tear down Sexton when it's not really being honest about the situation. Also if we can afford it having Sexton and LeVert would never be a bad thing as it means at least one would be coming off the bench, likely Sexton with Okoro as they play really well together and could help cover for each others weaknesses.

Well, it's easy to see how the backcourt gets a bit crowded next year. You can play Sexton at the 1 or the 2, but he's best at the 2 thus far in his career. You can play Okoro at the 2 or the 3 but he's best at the 2 thus far in his career. You can play LeVert 1 through 3, theoretically, but he's also probably best at the 2. Especially if we want to keep Markkanen at the 3 for now.

So there's a crunch coming next year (if we keep Sexton) that will involve playing guys outside their ideal positions and roles. LeVert is absolutely auditioning for the second guard role that Sexton started this year with. And since none of the 2s are ideal backup PGs, they might be splitting minutes with Goodwin or a re-signed Rubio or some other backup PG in the backcourt as well. You can squeeze Okoro or LeVert to the 3, but then that leads to a crunch with Markkanen and Osman there, unless you push Markkanen back to being a big...

Just saying, the LeVert acquisition is great for this year but it leaves us with more guys than roles, and that's before you start giving guys like Stevens or Wade or Windler any minutes. (And you know JBB is going to want to give Stevens his minutes when the defense needs to turn up a notch.)

I would've gladly eaten Buddy to get Hali, but I don't think the Kings would've taken back picks instead of Sabonis. They've clearly entered the go ahead and eat the seed corn stage.

[JonFromVA]

I mean LeVert isn't any better of a defender than Sexton even though he's 5" taller. I think height gets a little overrated on this board at times.

Yes, height/wingspan isn't everything (even though some think it is), but I'm getting the impression from the things I've read about LeVert that he will be a much better defender than Collin and then of course he will be able to take advantage of the fact we have tower city protecting the rim.

Again, it's to our advantage that Allen has played with Caris and knows all the little things that the FO wants to know that we don't necessarily know ... like how does he work out, how is he in the locker-room, does he accept coaching, does he study film and listen to the scouting report, does he stay engaged on the floor or does he lose focus, etc, etc.

The Pacers starting lineup was actually quite effective, +11.3 with Duarte and +7 with Holiday, but they just seem to lack the depth they would have needed to survive the injuries they've suffered.

Don't get me wrong, I actually wanted the Cavs to make a run for LeVert in FA originally before he extended with the Nets, so I like his overall game, I just think that some of the discussion is boosting LeVert in an attempt to tear down Sexton when it's not really being honest about the situation. Also if we can afford it having Sexton and LeVert would never be a bad thing as it means at least one would be coming off the bench, likely Sexton with Okoro as they play really well together and could help cover for each others weaknesses.

Sure, I made a post the other day that argued LeVert could be a transitional player that helps gets us to the point that guys like Isaac and Collin have gained experience and are ready to contribute at a higher level. I don't do that because I like to argue both sides, but because I see both sides.

Even JBB has said that he plans to see which lineups work best and play it from there. And hey, like the Pacers, our starting lineup with Isaac was knocking it out of the park and starting out with more of a defensive presence is not a bad idea. So, sounds good?

The thing is when do we want to start worrying about the teams that can force the ball out of DG's hands? Are we going to put that off until we've dug a hole against one of them in a crucial playoff game?

As for Collin, it's not all about what the Cavs want or would prefer. We have to guess what kind of role Collin would accept.

Collin's college coach Avery Johnson sure seems convinced Collin was going to be traded, and if that's not the case, the Cavs should probably do something to cheer him up ...

[img]

[jbk1234]

Yes, height/wingspan isn't everything (even though some think it is), but I'm getting the impression from the things I've read about LeVert that he will be a much better defender than Collin and then of course he will be able to take advantage of the fact we have tower city protecting the rim.

Again, it's to our advantage that Allen has played with Caris and knows all the little things that the FO wants to know that we don't necessarily know ... like how does he work out, how is he in the locker-room, does he accept coaching, does he study film and listen to the scouting report, does he stay engaged on the floor or does he lose focus, etc, etc.

The Pacers starting lineup was actually quite effective, +11.3 with Duarte and +7 with Holiday, but they just seem to lack the depth they would have needed to survive the injuries they've suffered.

Don't get me wrong, I actually wanted the Cavs to make a run for LeVert in FA originally before he extended with the Nets, so I like his overall game, I just think that some of the discussion is boosting LeVert in an attempt to tear down Sexton when it's not really being honest about the situation. Also if we can afford it having Sexton and LeVert would never be a bad thing as it means at least one would be coming off the bench, likely Sexton with Okoro as they play really well together and could help cover for each others weaknesses.

Sure, I made a post the other day that argued LeVert could be a transitional player that helps gets us to the point that guys like Isaac and Collin have gained experience and are ready to contribute at a higher level. I don't do that because I like to argue both sides, but because I see both sides.

Even JBB has said that he plans to see which lineups work best and play it from there. And hey, like the Pacers, our starting lineup with Isaac was knocking it out of the park and starting out with more of a defensive presence is not a bad idea. So, sounds good?

The thing is when do we want to start worrying about the teams that can force the ball out of DG's hands? Are we going to put that off until we've dug a hole against one of them in a crucial playoff game?

As for Collin, it's not all about what the Cavs want or would prefer. We have to guess what kind of role Collin would accept.

Collin's college coach Avery Johnson sure seems convinced Collin was going to be traded, and if that's not the case, the Cavs should probably do something to cheer him up ...

[img]

I mean he fired CAA, hired Klutch, and his market didn't change just because he changed agents. I feel badly for him, but we're not at the same place we were when we were talking about numbers before and he likely has to get traded to get paid now. I'm glad he's handled it professionally. It's good that he's saying all the right things, but the Cavs need to do what's best for the organization. That likely does not include offering him a long-term deal that's to his liking this summer.

To be clear, he's not totally blameless here. I don't believe for a second that three/four different coaching staffs all told him not to worry about defense or getting his teammates involved in the offense. He had three full years, a lot of games, and a ton of minutes to work on those skills and show the Cavs anything on that front. It wasn't until the last third of the last season, when Garland started to put it together, that he made an effort to move the ball. This year, before he went down, he was still getting pulled at the end of games because he was a defensive liability. There isn't really a body of evidence that he'll improve in the areas they need him to. It's all hope and attitude. That's not enough to warrant optimistic projections. It would professional malpractice for the Cavs to pay him big money based on nothing more than him saying the right things and wanting to be out there.

[JonFromVA]

Don't get me wrong, I actually wanted the Cavs to make a run for LeVert in FA originally before he extended with the Nets, so I like his overall game, I just think that some of the discussion is boosting LeVert in an attempt to tear down Sexton when it's not really being honest about the situation. Also if we can afford it having Sexton and LeVert would never be a bad thing as it means at least one would be coming off the bench, likely Sexton with Okoro as they play really well together and could help cover for each others weaknesses.

Sure, I made a post the other day that argued LeVert could be a transitional player that helps gets us to the point that guys like Isaac and Collin have gained experience and are ready to contribute at a higher level. I don't do that because I like to argue both sides, but because I see both sides.

Even JBB has said that he plans to see which lineups work best and play it from there. And hey, like the Pacers, our starting lineup with Isaac was knocking it out of the park and starting out with more of a defensive presence is not a bad idea. So, sounds good?

The thing is when do we want to start worrying about the teams that can force the ball out of DG's hands? Are we going to put that off until we've dug a hole against one of them in a crucial playoff game?

As for Collin, it's not all about what the Cavs want or would prefer. We have to guess what kind of role Collin would accept.

Collin's college coach Avery Johnson sure seems convinced Collin was going to be traded, and if that's not the case, the Cavs should probably do something to cheer him up ...

[img]

I mean he fired CAA, hired Klutch, and his market didn't change just because he changed agents. I feel badly for him, but we're not at the same place we were when we were talking about numbers before and he likely has to get traded to get paid now. I'm glad he's handled it professionally. It's good that he's saying all the right things, but the Cavs need to do what's best for the organization. That likely does not include offering him a long-term deal that's to his liking this summer.

To be clear, he's not totally blameless here. I don't believe for a second that three/four different coaching staffs all told him not to worry about defense or getting his teammates involved in the offense. He had three full years, a lot of games, and a ton of minutes to work on those skills and show the Cavs anything on that front. It wasn't until the last third of the last season, when Garland started to put it together, that he made an effort to move the ball. This year, before he went down, he was still getting pulled at the end of games because he was a defensive liability. There isn't really a body of evidence that he'll improve in the areas they need him to. It's all hope and attitude. That's not enough to warrant optimistic projections. It would professional malpractice for the Cavs to pay him big money based on nothing more than him saying the right things and wanting to be out there.

The Cavs may have less risky options to explore, but I wouldn't call it malpractice. The name of the game with a 22 year is to take in everything you know about the player: their strengths and weaknesses and project that out over however long you expect they may be a member of your team.

If you decide strictly based on where they're at as a 22 year old, you're going to watch a lot of talent walk out the door to go on and do bigger and better things for some other team.

The Cavs know a lot about Collin and they've known a lot about Collin and while the rumors have been flying for a long time that they'd like to move him, they haven't pulled the trigger. That tells me they believe he has value (ie upside) beyond what the market believes or is at least willing to pay.

But the Cavs went and swung a deal that filled the hole Collin might have filled and now best case he's in a 3-man competition with Isaac and Caris for the starting SG spot and if we re-sign Ricky a 2-man competition for the backup PG spot. He may be competing with Cedi and Lamar for rotational minutes depending what JBB thinks the team needs.

If he's wired a little different than most pros, he'll welcome the competition and chance to prove himself; but if he's like most other NBA players he will be trying real hard to find a team willing to pay him to be their starting PG and I imagine he has at least a couple of possible options in NY and Detroit.

So to get this right, not only do we need to be able to predict the future to project how Collin will develop, we need to be mind readers to determine if Collin will buy in to our plan for getting him where think he can get and/or where we need him to get.

A couple phone calls and everyone could be on the same page, but if there's any doubt on either side; the Cavs should just trade him and not let Collin's plans even have a chance to interfere with the team's.

Which all sounds pretty complicated for a young man that wants nothing more than to live & breath basketball 24/7, but he has a lot of free time on his hands and presumably hired Klutch to somehow turn an awful situation in to a golden opportunity.

[mcfly1204]

Not really trade oriented, but who's on the buyout wish list? I am hoping for a low cost surprise, similar to Rondo. SG/SF/PF?

[KuruptedCav]

Not really trade oriented, but who's on the buyout wish list? I am hoping for a low cost surprise, similar to Rondo. SG/SF/PF?

Goran Dragic m
Thad Young
Paul Millsap
Kent Bazemore
John Wall
Kemba Walker
Torrey Craig
Gary Harris
Derrick Favors
Robin Lopez
Mike Muscala
Tristan Thompson
Kevin Knox
Jeremy Lamb
Serge Ibaka


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[LivingLegend]

Don't get me wrong, I actually wanted the Cavs to make a run for LeVert in FA originally before he extended with the Nets, so I like his overall game, I just think that some of the discussion is boosting LeVert in an attempt to tear down Sexton when it's not really being honest about the situation. Also if we can afford it having Sexton and LeVert would never be a bad thing as it means at least one would be coming off the bench, likely Sexton with Okoro as they play really well together and could help cover for each others weaknesses.

Sure, I made a post the other day that argued LeVert could be a transitional player that helps gets us to the point that guys like Isaac and Collin have gained experience and are ready to contribute at a higher level. I don't do that because I like to argue both sides, but because I see both sides.

Even JBB has said that he plans to see which lineups work best and play it from there. And hey, like the Pacers, our starting lineup with Isaac was knocking it out of the park and starting out with more of a defensive presence is not a bad idea. So, sounds good?

The thing is when do we want to start worrying about the teams that can force the ball out of DG's hands? Are we going to put that off until we've dug a hole against one of them in a crucial playoff game?

As for Collin, it's not all about what the Cavs want or would prefer. We have to guess what kind of role Collin would accept.

Collin's college coach Avery Johnson sure seems convinced Collin was going to be traded, and if that's not the case, the Cavs should probably do something to cheer him up ...

[img]

I mean he fired CAA, hired Klutch, and his market didn't change just because he changed agents. I feel badly for him, but we're not at the same place we were when we were talking about numbers before and he likely has to get traded to get paid now. I'm glad he's handled it professionally. It's good that he's saying all the right things, but the Cavs need to do what's best for the organization. That likely does not include offering him a long-term deal that's to his liking this summer.

To be clear, he's not totally blameless here. I don't believe for a second that three/four different coaching staffs all told him not to worry about defense or getting his teammates involved in the offense. He had three full years, a lot of games, and a ton of minutes to work on those skills and show the Cavs anything on that front. It wasn't until the last third of the last season, when Garland started to put it together, that he made an effort to move the ball. This year, before he went down, he was still getting pulled at the end of games because he was a defensive liability. There isn't really a body of evidence that he'll improve in the areas they need him to. It's all hope and attitude. That's not enough to warrant optimistic projections. It would professional malpractice for the Cavs to pay him big money based on nothing more than him saying the right things and wanting to be out there.

What do you think about banking on a players future though?

How strongly do you think the Cavs feel Sexton can breakthrough and become a more well rounded player as he turns 24-25-26 years old?

They did it with Allen and paid him based off of a projection and hit a grand slam doing so. Maybe they think some sort of way about Sexton because JBB/Altman sure seem to gush over him and both sides have said 50x in the last year they want him in Cleveland long-term.

I just don't know how it's financially possible. Either LeVert or Sexton is going to have to take a below market deal. Plus we have Cedi to pay as well if we choose to do so. I say that just because I'm following how the Cavs historically operate with Levert. Cedi might be the odd man out if the Cavs are hellbent on keeping both other guys and be might be looki g to cash in after a career year while also taking a below market deal last time

Traded for Jarrett Allen and signed him long-term.
Traded for Lauri Markenen and signed him long-term.
Traded for Caris Levert and _____________________.

It's gonna happen. The interesting part is how they handle Sexton/Osman/Rubio and who comes back to join Garland/Okoro/LeVert/Lauri/Mobley/Love/Allen

[Revenged25]

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