2024-25 Regular Season

[jbk1234]

Well, he needs to get signed up and back with the program. We'll have to see how Kenny really runs this the team, but from what I've read and if the drafting of Tyson is indicative, he wants everyone involved in the offense, making decisions, driving, moving the ball, etc. Okoro can do those things and I think he could grow in a system that encourages it without asking him to do too much.

The other factor will be what Kenny can do to improve our floor spacing which makes everything harder for everybody but especially for players who don't have elite handles and ISO ability.

Part of the problem with floor spacing is that the other team has a say in how that goes. There are real limits to what coaching can accomplish when the other team decides to pack the paint and you can't make them pay for doing it. Mobley becoming a threat from midrange is all but a necessity for the current core to contend long-term.

Due to defensive limitations, it's difficult to play Merrill and Niang in the same unit, and all but impossible once you add Garland or CPJ. While I understand the real world restrictions Altman was operating under, I worry about our ability to go 10 deep with a coach who likes to play with a 10+ man rotation.

Let's take a look at a win with 10 guys playing 10+ minutes for the 2018 Atkinson Nets.

Starting 5 is D'Lo, Joe Harris, LeVert, Dudley, and Allen.

At 5:14 in the 1st quarter Dinwiddie, Crabbe, and RHJ check-in.

The 2nd line is now Dinwiddie, Crabbe, LeVert, RHJ, and Allen.

At 4:12 in the 1st quarter Ed Davis comes in for Allen. Then at 3:23 in the 1st Carroll comes in for LeVert.

So he's running all back-ups with a line of Dinwiddie, Crabbe, Carroll, RHJ, and Davis.

At 10:35 in the 2nd quarter Joe Harris replaces RHJ

Now they're running a line of Dinwiddie, Crabbe, Harris, Carroll, and Davis.

Then at 8:22 in the 2nd quarter Dudley checks back in for Carroll.

At 6:23 in the 2nd quarter LeVert, D'Lo, and Allen come back in to make the starting 5 whole again.

With 4:09 left in the 2nd, RHJ comes in for Dudley and shortly after Dinwiddie comes in for Harris with 3:18 left in the half and the below line-up closes.

D'Lo, Dinwiddie, LeVert, RHJ, and Allen.

At the end of the half the minute totals are as follows...

LeVert 15 mins
Allen 14 mins
Dinwiddie 14 mins
Harris 14 mins
D'Lo 13 mins
Dudley 11 mins
Crabbe 11 mins
RHJ 11 mins
Davis 10 mins
Carroll 7 mins

2nd half same starting 5.

At 6:23 in the 3rd Crabbe comes in for Harris. Then at 5:27 Dinwiddie and RHJ come in for DLo and Dudley. Same first 3 subs off the bench at the 1st half.

5:15 Davis for Allen then at 3:22 Carroll for LeVert.

So again, Kenny is running all backups to close the 3rd.

To start the 4th the line is Dinwiddie, Crabbe, Harris, Carroll, Davis

10:49 in the 4th Allen comes in for Ed Davis.

8:15 RHJ comes in for Carroll.

7:48 kind of a weird sub, LeVert in for Allen.

6:53 and 6:41 D'Lo, Allen, and Dudley sub in for Dinwiddie, Crabbe, and RHJ.

The starting 5 is now whole again.

5:05 Dinwiddie comes in for Harris and the below line-up essentially closes the game.

D'Lo, Dinwiddie, LeVert, Dudley, and Allen.

2 point win over the Jokic and Murray Nuggets. Game minute totals are below.

LeVert 31 mins
Allen 30 mins
Dinwiddie 30 mins
Harris 26 mins
D'Lo 26 mins
Dudley 24 mins
Crabbe 23 mins
RHJ 18 mins
Davis 16 mins
Carroll 14 mins

Kenny is going to have 0 issue going 10 deep with this Cavs current roster.

I mean that Nets team was barely. 500 playing in a much worse conference than what the East is today.

[JujitsuFlip]

Part of the problem with floor spacing is that the other team has a say in how that goes. There are real limits to what coaching can accomplish when the other team decides to pack the paint and you can't make them pay for doing it. Mobley becoming a threat from midrange is all but a necessity for the current core to contend long-term.

Due to defensive limitations, it's difficult to play Merrill and Niang in the same unit, and all but impossible once you add Garland or CPJ. While I understand the real world restrictions Altman was operating under, I worry about our ability to go 10 deep with a coach who likes to play with a 10+ man rotation.

Let's take a look at a win with 10 guys playing 10+ minutes for the 2018 Atkinson Nets.

Starting 5 is D'Lo, Joe Harris, LeVert, Dudley, and Allen.

At 5:14 in the 1st quarter Dinwiddie, Crabbe, and RHJ check-in.

The 2nd line is now Dinwiddie, Crabbe, LeVert, RHJ, and Allen.

At 4:12 in the 1st quarter Ed Davis comes in for Allen. Then at 3:23 in the 1st Carroll comes in for LeVert.

So he's running all back-ups with a line of Dinwiddie, Crabbe, Carroll, RHJ, and Davis.

At 10:35 in the 2nd quarter Joe Harris replaces RHJ

Now they're running a line of Dinwiddie, Crabbe, Harris, Carroll, and Davis.

Then at 8:22 in the 2nd quarter Dudley checks back in for Carroll.

At 6:23 in the 2nd quarter LeVert, D'Lo, and Allen come back in to make the starting 5 whole again.

With 4:09 left in the 2nd, RHJ comes in for Dudley and shortly after Dinwiddie comes in for Harris with 3:18 left in the half and the below line-up closes.

D'Lo, Dinwiddie, LeVert, RHJ, and Allen.

At the end of the half the minute totals are as follows...

LeVert 15 mins
Allen 14 mins
Dinwiddie 14 mins
Harris 14 mins
D'Lo 13 mins
Dudley 11 mins
Crabbe 11 mins
RHJ 11 mins
Davis 10 mins
Carroll 7 mins

2nd half same starting 5.

At 6:23 in the 3rd Crabbe comes in for Harris. Then at 5:27 Dinwiddie and RHJ come in for DLo and Dudley. Same first 3 subs off the bench at the 1st half.

5:15 Davis for Allen then at 3:22 Carroll for LeVert.

So again, Kenny is running all backups to close the 3rd.

To start the 4th the line is Dinwiddie, Crabbe, Harris, Carroll, Davis

10:49 in the 4th Allen comes in for Ed Davis.

8:15 RHJ comes in for Carroll.

7:48 kind of a weird sub, LeVert in for Allen.

6:53 and 6:41 D'Lo, Allen, and Dudley sub in for Dinwiddie, Crabbe, and RHJ.

The starting 5 is now whole again.

5:05 Dinwiddie comes in for Harris and the below line-up essentially closes the game.

D'Lo, Dinwiddie, LeVert, Dudley, and Allen.

2 point win over the Jokic and Murray Nuggets. Game minute totals are below.

LeVert 31 mins
Allen 30 mins
Dinwiddie 30 mins
Harris 26 mins
D'Lo 26 mins
Dudley 24 mins
Crabbe 23 mins
RHJ 18 mins
Davis 16 mins
Carroll 14 mins

Kenny is going to have 0 issue going 10 deep with this Cavs current roster.

I mean that Nets team was barely. 500 playing in a much worse conference than what the East is today.

Yeah? So what. The talent gap between that team and this Cavs team is massive.

The theory on the rotations is there.

[JujitsuFlip]

Pretty easy to draw comparisons

*LeVert 15 mins
*Allen 14 mins
+Dinwiddie 14 mins
*Harris 14 mins
*D'Lo 13 mins
*Dudley 11 mins
+Crabbe 11 mins
+RHJ 11 mins
&Davis 10 mins
&Carroll 7 mins

* our starters are gonna be Garland, Mitchell, Strus, Mobley, and Allen.

Allen can still be our Allen and Mitchell will be our LeVert. Mobley is gonna be more than the 4s Kenny had on the Nets more like Draymond Green from his Warriors days.

+ LeVert, Niang, and Wade

LeVert pivots to be our Dinwiddie as the 6th man but our top 3 guys off the bench are known. Okoro can take Wade's spot, depending on matchup then Wade bumps down to the next level.

& without a true back-up 5, Mobley will see more minutes than the other Nets bigs did but we can plug in Travers or Thor to that 10-12 minute role. If Okoro doesn't hold out we have a little 15 minute role open for him. If not, Tyson gonna have to find his spot as that 10th guy. Shabazz Napier was sometimes the Nets 11th man, so i could see CPJ or TJ filling maybe not up to 10 minutes a game but ya know between the 3 to 8 minute per game slot just as an extra ball handler, depending on foul trouble and matchup.

Edit: and i forgot about Merrill

If we go lineups with 5 bench players on the court at once, I want Okoro to start so the bench at least has both Strus and LeVert to make plays.

But doing anything other than having one of the two guards and one of the two bigs from the core four on the court at any one time is failing to optimize them.

I don't want Okoro starting, guy can't shoot. Until Mobley proves he can play the Draymond role in Kenny's offense, Cavs will still need shooting.

Kenny will have to adjust that strategy anyhow, as the Cavs have no RHJ or Ed Davis on this team. Those guys weren't good and were short but that would be a hefty burden to put on Thor or Travers.

[JonFromVA]

Next year's market will be better, objectively. He'll be a UFA (assuming he plays on the QO). Teams will get a bigger increase in the cap next year, so they'll have more potential to add to their rosters.

But Okoro will have to fight for minutes. If this off-season isn't enough to convince him that he needs to expand his game, it probably isn't going to happen.

Well, he needs to get signed up and back with the program. We'll have to see how Kenny really runs this the team, but from what I've read and if the drafting of Tyson is indicative, he wants everyone involved in the offense, making decisions, driving, moving the ball, etc. Okoro can do those things and I think he could grow in a system that encourages it without asking him to do too much.

The other factor will be what Kenny can do to improve our floor spacing which makes everything harder for everybody but especially for players who don't have elite handles and ISO ability.

Part of the problem with floor spacing is that the other team has a say in how that goes. There are real limits to what coaching can accomplish when the other team decides to pack the paint and you can't make them pay for doing it. Mobley becoming a threat from midrange is all but a necessity for the current core to contend long-term.

Due to defensive limitations, it's difficult to play Merrill and Niang in the same unit, and all but impossible once you add Garland or CPJ. While I understand the real world restrictions Altman was operating under, I worry about our ability to go 10 deep with a coach who likes to play with a 10+ man rotation.

There's a reason I said we'll have to actually see how Kenny runs the team because creating open shots for Evan, Allen, or Isaac is by definition crap compared to running an offense that can free up Garland, Mitchell, or Strus for an open shot. You know ... someone on the team might have to learn how to set an effective screen.

[Eightnineborn]

Having Darius is not unleashing the epitome of Mitchell’s game. Mitchell (and the team) looked so Much better without Darius and without 2 bigs clogging the paint.

[JujitsuFlip]

Having Darius is not unleashing the epitome of Mitchell’s game. Mitchell (and the team) looked so Much better without Darius and without 2 bigs clogging the paint.

The issue is, if rumors are to be believed, Mitchell re-signed with the caveat that Allen and Garland not be traded.

Furthermore, if rumors are to be believed, Kenny was hired because he pushed the idea the core4 can work.

We already know Koby loves the core4, he's the one who built it.

Since Dan never fired Koby and allegedly had direct input on hiring Kenny, by association he supports the core4.

Despite the fit issues, top to bottom, this franchise is all in on the idea of 2 small offense first guards and 2 non shooting defense first bigs.

[JonFromVA]

Having Darius is not unleashing the epitome of Mitchell’s game. Mitchell (and the team) looked so Much better without Darius and without 2 bigs clogging the paint.

Do you remember the part where Mitchell broke down shortly after that stretch after the All-Star break and then again in the playoffs?

Be careful what you wish for ...

[JujitsuFlip]

Could probably do something like this. Can mirror it in the 2nd half, with slight adjustments on how to close the 4th.

[jbk1234]

Having Darius is not unleashing the epitome of Mitchell’s game. Mitchell (and the team) looked so Much better without Darius and without 2 bigs clogging the paint.

Mitchell played lot better during the easiest part of our schedule than the most difficult. This was true of every role player on our roster as well. Beating middling or bad teams isn't terribly difficult when you have the most talented player on the court. Beating other good teams with comparable talent is. The Jazz routinely overperformed during the regular season and disappointed in the playoffs with Mitchell as the only legitimate scoring threat.

In truth, if Garland and Mitchell can't manifest some synergy after their 3rd season together under a new coach, the Cavs are going to have a decision to make, but they'll absolutely need another ball handler/creator/scorer back for whichever player they move. Mitchell and Garland are the only two players on the roster with playoff handles.

[jbk1234]

Sounds like Cedi is heading back to Europe. While I understand the financial constraints, I have a difficult time seeing Travers providing more useful minutes than he would've.

[toooskies]

Sounds like Cedi is heading back to Europe. While I understand the financial constraints, I have a difficult time seeing Travers providing more useful minutes than he would've.

Travers didn't take a two-way away from Cedi. The roster spot that Cedi could fill is probably better spent on a 4 or 5.

[jbk1234]

Sounds like Cedi is heading back to Europe. While I understand the financial constraints, I have a difficult time seeing Travers providing more useful minutes than he would've.

Travers didn't take a two-way away from Cedi. The roster spot that Cedi could fill is probably better spent on a 4 or 5.

We're having to sign all these two-way players because we don't have any room under the tax line to fill them with useful vets. I'm not convinced that any of Thor, Bates, or Travers are going to be able to contribute meaningful minutes. We have 12 NBA players on a roster with a coach that wants to run a 10-man rotation. Three of those 12 players are Jerome, CPJ, and Niang. Also, I'm including an untested rookie as a regular rotation player.

[toooskies]

Sounds like Cedi is heading back to Europe. While I understand the financial constraints, I have a difficult time seeing Travers providing more useful minutes than he would've.

Travers didn't take a two-way away from Cedi. The roster spot that Cedi could fill is probably better spent on a 4 or 5.

We're having to sign all these two-way players because we don't have any room under the tax line to fill them with useful vets. I'm not convinced that any of Thor, Bates, or Travers are going to be able to contribute meaningful minutes. We have 12 NBA players on a roster with a coach that wants to run a 10-man rotation. Three of those 12 players are Jerome, CPJ, and Niang. Also, I'm including an untested rookie as a regular rotation player.

We are signing two-way players to identify and develop players who might be useful 2-3 years from now.

We aren't allowed to not fill at least two more roster spots and in the worst case that will be someone at the Marcus Morris/Tristan Thompson level. One of them is going to be Okoro or whoever he is sign-and-traded for.

If Okoro doesn't take his QO in time for the regular season, that just lowers our standing offer to him.

[jbk1234]

Travers didn't take a two-way away from Cedi. The roster spot that Cedi could fill is probably better spent on a 4 or 5.

We're having to sign all these two-way players because we don't have any room under the tax line to fill them with useful vets. I'm not convinced that any of Thor, Bates, or Travers are going to be able to contribute meaningful minutes. We have 12 NBA players on a roster with a coach that wants to run a 10-man rotation. Three of those 12 players are Jerome, CPJ, and Niang. Also, I'm including an untested rookie as a regular rotation player.

We are signing two-way players to identify and develop players who might be useful 2-3 years from now.

We aren't allowed to not fill at least two more roster spots and in the worst case that will be someone at the Marcus Morris/Tristan Thompson level. One of them is going to be Okoro or whoever he is sign-and-traded for.

If Okoro doesn't take his QO in time for the regular season, that just lowers our standing offer to him.

You only need 12 *active* players on a roster. Perhaps players on two-way contracts are excluded from the active/inactive distinction? Otherwise, a team could count two, two-way players toward the 14 spots and activate them due to injuries when one of the 12 go down.

[JujitsuFlip]

We're having to sign all these two-way players because we don't have any room under the tax line to fill them with useful vets. I'm not convinced that any of Thor, Bates, or Travers are going to be able to contribute meaningful minutes. We have 12 NBA players on a roster with a coach that wants to run a 10-man rotation. Three of those 12 players are Jerome, CPJ, and Niang. Also, I'm including an untested rookie as a regular rotation player.

We are signing two-way players to identify and develop players who might be useful 2-3 years from now.

We aren't allowed to not fill at least two more roster spots and in the worst case that will be someone at the Marcus Morris/Tristan Thompson level. One of them is going to be Okoro or whoever he is sign-and-traded for.

If Okoro doesn't take his QO in time for the regular season, that just lowers our standing offer to him.

You only need 12 *active* players on a roster. Perhaps players on two-way contracts are excluded from the active/inactive distinction? Otherwise, a team could count two, two-way players toward the 14 spots and activate them due to injuries when one of the 12 go down.

Nah.

NBA teams must have 14 standard contracts on their roster to start thr regular season. 2way players do not count towards that designation.

Cavs must sign 2 more players, if Okoro holds out or only 1 if he extends/picks up his QO.

Cavs got screwed because they waited until August 12th to start free agency (when Kenny returned from the Olympics).

[toooskies]

Cavs invoke obscure new rules to grab some more cap space this year:

Read on Twitter

[jbk1234]

We are signing two-way players to identify and develop players who might be useful 2-3 years from now.

We aren't allowed to not fill at least two more roster spots and in the worst case that will be someone at the Marcus Morris/Tristan Thompson level. One of them is going to be Okoro or whoever he is sign-and-traded for.

If Okoro doesn't take his QO in time for the regular season, that just lowers our standing offer to him.

You only need 12 *active* players on a roster. Perhaps players on two-way contracts are excluded from the active/inactive distinction? Otherwise, a team could count two, two-way players toward the 14 spots and activate them due to injuries when one of the 12 go down.

Nah.

NBA teams must have 14 standard contracts on their roster to start thr regular season. 2way players do not count towards that designation.

Cavs must sign 2 more players, if Okoro holds out or only 1 if he extends/picks up his QO.

Cavs got screwed because they waited until August 12th to start free agency (when Kenny returned from the Olympics).

The Cavs were either going to pull Okoro's QO in July, or not. When they made their decision not to, their free agency was essentially over (at least without a Niang dump). Gilbert wasn't going to sign off on going into the tax a year early in order to sign a back-end rotation player.

Blaming inaction on Altman for attending the Olympics is silly. He has a phone and there were other league personnel over there as well. It may be where the Okoro for DFS talks started.

[JujitsuFlip]

Cavs invoke obscure new rules to grab some more cap space this year:

Read on Twitter

Might signal Okoro about to pick-up the QO. Idk how close that would put us to the tax, with this move.

[JujitsuFlip]

You only need 12 *active* players on a roster. Perhaps players on two-way contracts are excluded from the active/inactive distinction? Otherwise, a team could count two, two-way players toward the 14 spots and activate them due to injuries when one of the 12 go down.

Nah.

NBA teams must have 14 standard contracts on their roster to start thr regular season. 2way players do not count towards that designation.

Cavs must sign 2 more players, if Okoro holds out or only 1 if he extends/picks up his QO.

Cavs got screwed because they waited until August 12th to start free agency (when Kenny returned from the Olympics).

The Cavs were either going to pull Okoro's QO in July, or not. When they made their decision not to, their free agency was essentially over (at least without a Niang dump). Gilbert wasn't going to sign off on going into the tax a year early in order to sign a back-end rotation player.

Blaming inaction on Altman for attending the Olympics is silly. He has a phone and there were other league personnel over there as well. It may be where the Okoro for DFS talks started.

Idk that Koby was at the Olympics.

I do know Kenny Atkinson was coaching in them. And i know they didn't sign a single 2way player until Kenny returned to the US. They have still failed to sign anyone to a standard deal, outside of their rookie.

[jbk1234]

Cavs invoke obscure new rules to grab some more cap space this year:

Read on Twitter

Might signal Okoro about to pick-up the QO. Idk how close that would put us to the tax, with this move.

Hopefully, it signals that he's going to sign a multi-year dea that starts below his QO (with max raises) so we can sign a big without going into the tax this season. I have to imagine that the Cavs have checked the market on Niang and it's cost prohibitive to get off his salary.