Mavs - Cavs trade

[mcfly1204]

What about a 3 way trade including the Hawks and Joe Johnson?

The Hawks send Joe Johnson to the Cavs. The Cavs send LeBron and Jamesion to the Mavs. The Mavs send Dirk to the Hawks and Dampier and Beaubois to the Cavs. It leaves the Cavs with a play-off team, the Hawks get to remake their team to chase a championship. The Mavs of course get Lebron and a stretch PF to make up a little bit for the loss of Dirk.

Dallas definitely needs another SF, almost as much as the Hawks need a PF... great trade.

The whole point of us going after Lebron would be to pair him up with Dirk, he's not going anywhere. And we have Butler and Marion on our roster right now, I don't feel like we need another SF, we're actually logjammed there right now.

Sarcasm friend.

[CDansby]

ha, my bad, my eyes were working faster than my brain. i was about to say something about the Hawks not needing another PF too....

[DowJones]

You don't have an appealing package though. That is the problem. You only have 1 good young player and he is nothing special. The Lakers could give us Bynum. I am sorry but he trumps the French kid you have.

No **** Bynum is better, but why would James want to go play with Kobe when he's on a mission to prove that he's better than him. You're missing the point, this isn't "let's go find the best package for Lebron", this conversation is solely based around the idea that Lebron tells Dan Gilbert that he wants to go to Dallas and whether or not Dallas can make that happen while helping the Cavs future.

I know this is a completely different debate, but everyone here is wayyyy too low on Roddy's potential and I find that understandable. Our coach is our weakest link, and he's the reason Roddy never saw the floor. In my opinion Roddy should have been starting at the 2 by the end of the year but Carlisle didn't run his rotations logically enough during the season to let that happen. He's better than Jet and JJ Barea right now and he's only going to get better, much better. The entire city of Dallas would laugh at you when you say he's nothing special. This city is much higher on Beaubois than we ever were on Devin Harris after his rookie year. The kid shot 50% from the floor 40% from beyond the arc and 85% from the line. He has a 42 inch vertical and a 6'10" wingspan (not an exaggeration). O ya he's also the fastest human being on the planet with a basketball in his hands. The kid's got a crazy future ahead of him.

Damp's contract alone matches what Lebron would get in the first year of a max deal, waive Damp when you get him and it means that you're getting Roddy without spending a cent on Damp's contract. Getting Roddy is better than getting nothing and it costs you nothing more than the rookie contract Roddy's on. Throw in Butler and we'll take back Jamison. Why? Because you would rather pay Butler $10 mil for one year than pay Jamison $10 mil each of the next two years. Throw in Najera or Barea or Stevenson or a combination of those three expiring deals and we could take on the other long contracts you have like Williams and Gibson. If Lebron leaves, it means Dan Gilbert will want to clear up the roster as soon as possible to rebuild and this is the fastest route. I'm sorry that it's not appealing to you, but I have a feeling Dan Gilbert would understand the appeal to this.

But ya, if Lebron said that he wanted to go play for the Lakers, a package involving Bynum would be better. If he said he wanted to go to Portland or Sacto then bringing in Roy or Evans would be better, I agree with all that. This conversation is solely based around him stating he wants to come to Dallas.

I don't know what to tell you though. If the greatest player in the world demands to be dealt to your favorite team then that's like winning the freaking lottery. If he announces loud and clear to the world that he wants Dallas and only Dallas, there isn't much Cleveland can do. Roddy is really the only player you can offer that has ANY value, and he doesn't have much, so it would have to be him.

If LeBron James straight up DEMANDS Dallas, I guess Cleveland would be put into a position of asking themselves whether or not some undersized SG from France is worth giving into LeBron's demands.

[DowJones]

So it goes like this...

1. LeBron stays in Cleveland (Dallas is screwed)
2. LeBron decides to leave Cleveland and sign somewhere else (Dallas is screwed)
3. LeBron decides to do a sign and trade to a team that can give something valuable to Cleveland, while staying competitive at the highest of all levels. (Dallas is screwed becuase Roddy won't come close to getting it done when everyone else is involved)
4. LeBron decides that the only place he wants to play is in Dallas and he threatens to not accept a sign and trade anywhere else but Dallas becuase he loves the team so much. (Dallas wins the lottery. It becomes 50-50 as to whether or not Gilbert views Roddy as a good enough player to give into everything that LeBron wants)

[CDansby]

So it goes like this...

1. LeBron stays in Cleveland (Dallas is screwed)
2. LeBron decides to leave Cleveland and sign somewhere else (Dallas is screwed)
3. LeBron decides to do a sign and trade to a team that can give something valuable to Cleveland, while staying competitive at the highest of all levels. (Dallas is screwed becuase Roddy won't come close to getting it done when everyone else is involved)
4. LeBron decides that the only place he wants to play is in Dallas and he threatens to not accept a sign and trade anywhere else but Dallas becuase he loves the team so much. (Dallas wins the lottery. It becomes 50-50 as to whether or not Gilbert views Roddy as a good enough player to give into everything that LeBron wants)

I agree with all of this, like I said, I don't think he's coming here at all, I'm just stating it's possible. But I disagree with number 3 on your list. Lebron wouldn't go to Gilbert and say hey, I'm leaving, now you can go ahead and choose the destination and find the best you can get for me. If he's doing a sign and trade he's doing it because he wants to be on a team with a strong supporting cast, not because he can bring that supporting cast to Cleveland by trading himself there.

Also, I would argue that the Gilbert's thinking would be more along the lines of Roddy is better than nothing, not is he good enough to let Lebron go to his destination. If Lebron decides he's not coming back it's about doing everything you can to put your franchise into rebuilding mode with the destination that he has chosen rather than choosing the destination that's best for rebuilding.

We also seem to disagree on the value that Damp's contract (not Damp) has in this deal. It's a different kind of value, but our roster is stacked with expiring contracts and Damp's instant 13.1 mil. I understand that no one wants to take on bad contracts, that's why Damp is a big deal, because trading for him makes just as much financial sense as letting Lebron walk.

Lebron and Shaq will both be off the payroll before the beginning of the season if Lebron leaves. If Lebron is traded for Damp then Damp's 13.1 mil is off the payroll before the beginning of the season. If you throw in the right parts, Jamison, Williams, and Gibson could all be off your payroll before the start of the 2011 season along with everything you traded them for. That's a lot of money to spend and a lot of draft picks that can be used as well as traded.

And Roddy is a natural PG, he's just seen all his minutes at SG here because we have this mummy who brings the ball up for us now and Rick Carlisle is stupid enough to think that JJB is better off as our backup PG rather than use Roddy. If he's still with us next year, he'll be our starting 2 and our backup 1.

[chakdaddy]

If he announces loud and clear to the world that he wants Dallas and only Dallas, there isn't much Cleveland can do.

Except tell LeBron to enjoy his MLE salary.

[CDansby]

If he announces loud and clear to the world that he wants Dallas and only Dallas, there isn't much Cleveland can do.

Except tell LeBron to enjoy his MLE salary.

Then you can have fun watching him drop 40 points on you 4 times a year in a Bulls uniform.

[chakdaddy]

If he announces loud and clear to the world that he wants Dallas and only Dallas, there isn't much Cleveland can do.

Except tell LeBron to enjoy his MLE salary.

Then you can have fun watching him drop 40 points on you 4 times a year in a Bulls uniform.

Maybe, but the stated situation here was "Dallas and only Dallas." "Preferably Dallas but otherwise Chicago" is a tougher decision, at least if you believe him. Personally, I don't think there's any in between in this for Cleveland - if he goes, they lose whether they get some pittance in return or not. Better to go all-in on even the slimmest chance he's bluffing and will re-sign. But that's my opinion.

[CDansby]

Maybe, but the stated situation here was "Dallas and only Dallas." "Preferably Dallas but otherwise Chicago" is a tougher decision, at least if you believe him. Personally, I don't think there's any in between in this for Cleveland - if he goes, they lose whether they get some pittance in return or not. Better to go all-in on even the slimmest chance he's bluffing and will re-sign. But that's my opinion.

I would agree with you on this. If he doesn't state that he's absolutely going to leave then you should definitely hold on to the hope that he'll come back.

[DowJones]

So it goes like this...

1. LeBron stays in Cleveland (Dallas is screwed)
2. LeBron decides to leave Cleveland and sign somewhere else (Dallas is screwed)
3. LeBron decides to do a sign and trade to a team that can give something valuable to Cleveland, while staying competitive at the highest of all levels. (Dallas is screwed becuase Roddy won't come close to getting it done when everyone else is involved)
4. LeBron decides that the only place he wants to play is in Dallas and he threatens to not accept a sign and trade anywhere else but Dallas becuase he loves the team so much. (Dallas wins the lottery. It becomes 50-50 as to whether or not Gilbert views Roddy as a good enough player to give into everything that LeBron wants)

I agree with all of this, like I said, I don't think he's coming here at all, I'm just stating it's possible. But I disagree with number 3 on your list. Lebron wouldn't go to Gilbert and say hey, I'm leaving, now you can go ahead and choose the destination and find the best you can get for me. If he's doing a sign and trade he's doing it because he wants to be on a team with a strong supporting cast, not because he can bring that supporting cast to Cleveland by trading himself there.

Also, I would argue that the Gilbert's thinking would be more along the lines of Roddy is better than nothing, not is he good enough to let Lebron go to his destination. If Lebron decides he's not coming back it's about doing everything you can to put your franchise into rebuilding mode with the destination that he has chosen rather than choosing the destination that's best for rebuilding.

We also seem to disagree on the value that Damp's contract (not Damp) has in this deal. It's a different kind of value, but our roster is stacked with expiring contracts and Damp's instant 13.1 mil. I understand that no one wants to take on bad contracts, that's why Damp is a big deal, because trading for him makes just as much financial sense as letting Lebron walk.

Lebron and Shaq will both be off the payroll before the beginning of the season if Lebron leaves. If Lebron is traded for Damp then Damp's 13.1 mil is off the payroll before the beginning of the season. If you throw in the right parts, Jamison, Williams, and Gibson could all be off your payroll before the start of the 2011 season along with everything you traded them for. That's a lot of money to spend and a lot of draft picks that can be used as well as traded.

And Roddy is a natural PG, he's just seen all his minutes at SG here because we have this mummy who brings the ball up for us now and Rick Carlisle is stupid enough to think that JJB is better off as our backup PG rather than use Roddy. If he's still with us next year, he'll be our starting 2 and our backup 1.

But there will never be a scenario of "Roddy is better than nothing" unless LeBron says "Dallas or nothing"...and I just don't see any chance of that happening. It's not like LeBron's first love is Dallas or anything.

It is just a supreme long-shot. Roddy and expiring contracts/Dampier's contract isn't even close to enough if LeBron is on the open market...or even if LeBron is open to teams like Chicago, LA, Miami, etc.

[DowJones]

If he announces loud and clear to the world that he wants Dallas and only Dallas, there isn't much Cleveland can do.

Except tell LeBron to enjoy his MLE salary.

Then you can have fun watching him drop 40 points on you 4 times a year in a Bulls uniform.

I personally wouldn't care. Hell, Gilbert probably would rather see LeBron come back to Cleveland twice a year instead of once in a Dallas uniform because it means an extra sell-out every year. But I couldn't care less if LeBron stays in the East or not. It's not like we will be competiting for a title in the next 5 years anyway. We would be in a complete re-building mode.

[Rand10]

But there will never be a scenario of "Roddy is better than nothing" unless LeBron says "Dallas or nothing"...and I just don't see any chance of that happening. It's not like LeBron's first love is Dallas or anything.

LeBron doesn't have to say "Dallas or nothing". The second he decides to leave for a team with cap space (they'll provide the threat, Dallas doesn't have to have cap space), Cleveland's best option is to look at every s&t offer they can and try to get LeBron to agree to the deal that gives them the most value, while shipping him out of their division/conference if possible.

From the handful of teams LeBron might actually sign with, who can offer more than Beaubois (a potential all-star down the road in my mind), picks, and massive cap relief? Maybe there is a better deal out there, but I don't think it will be significantly better, at least not nearly as much as you're expecting.

[DowJones]

But there will never be a scenario of "Roddy is better than nothing" unless LeBron says "Dallas or nothing"...and I just don't see any chance of that happening. It's not like LeBron's first love is Dallas or anything.

LeBron doesn't have to say "Dallas or nothing". The second he decides to leave for a team with cap space (they'll provide the threat, Dallas doesn't have to have cap space), Cleveland's best option is to look at every s&t offer they can and try to get LeBron to agree to the deal that gives them the most value, while shipping him out of their division/conference if possible.

From the handful of teams LeBron might actually sign with, who can offer more than Beaubois (a potential all-star down the road in my mind), picks, and massive cap relief? Maybe there is a better deal out there, but I don't think it will be significantly better, at least not nearly as much as you're expecting.

I agree with most of what you said. That brings me back to my original point...if Cleveland starts looking for sign and trade partners, Dallas is screwed because they have nothing of value to offer Cleveland.

[CDansby]

I agree with most of what you said. That brings me back to my original point...if Cleveland starts looking for sign and trade partners, Dallas is screwed because they have nothing of value to offer Cleveland.

But you're S&T trade partners are limited to teams that Lebron wants to go to. If he decided he wanted to go to the Lakers, they can offer Bynum and Artest and that's probably the most talent you'll get from a trade that Lebron wouldn't veto.

If he wants to go to a certain team, it's because he wants to play with the talent there. Any package with any sort of real value will more than likely be vetoed by Lebron.

The core of our team that Lebron would want to play with would still be in tact if we sent Roddy to Cleveland, the same thing with the Lakers involving Bynum and Artest in a trade. Most other packages give up too much talent from the receiving team for Lebron want to go there.

[440]

I agree with most of what you said. That brings me back to my original point...if Cleveland starts looking for sign and trade partners, Dallas is screwed because they have nothing of value to offer Cleveland.

But you're S&T trade partners are limited to teams that Lebron wants to go to. If he decided he wanted to go to the Lakers, they can offer Bynum and Artest and that's probably the most talent you'll get from a trade that Lebron wouldn't veto.

If he wants to go to a certain team, it's because he wants to play with the talent there. Any package with any sort of real value will more than likely be vetoed by Lebron.

The core of our team that Lebron would want to play with would still be in tact if we sent Roddy to Cleveland, the same thing with the Lakers involving Bynum and Artest in a trade. Most other packages give up too much talent from the receiving team for Lebron want to go there.

Which is exactly why Lebron won't be going to a team without cap space. If he demands Dallas then the Cavs say we Want this, this, and this. If they say no or Lebron vetos it we say too bad then sign with them for the MLE.

[TheOUTLAW]

Yeah, I've gotta agree. It is exactly the likelihood that the Cavs would get crap back that makes it likely that LeBron doesn't go to any of the teams that run the who "or let LeBron go for nothing" nonsense. I don't even understand why people make trades with the parameter that "LeBron has decided that he wants to go to this team" BS.

[TsunamiZC]

Yeah, I've gotta agree. It is exactly the likelihood that the Cavs would get crap back that makes it likely that LeBron doesn't go to any of the teams that run the who "or let LeBron go for nothing" nonsense. I don't even understand why people make trades with the parameter that "LeBron has decided that he wants to go to this team" BS.

Denial is one step closer to acceptance.

[TheOUTLAW]

We'll see, but I'm 99% sure he won't be going to Dallas.

[mcfly1204]

We'll see, but I'm 99% sure he won't be going to Dallas.

Why so conservative?

[TsunamiZC]

We'll see, but I'm 99% sure he won't be going to Dallas.

I dont really see it happening either, Dallas is too old and good for only about 1 ring if they somehow landed Lebron. But its really up what Mr James wants.