Trade Ideas

Post #1 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Sat May 15, 2010 1:22 pm

Put all trades in this thread. Any made outside of this thread will be locked.

soxfan2003 · Post #2 » by **soxfan2003** » Sat May 15, 2010 7:05 pm

This is a very long post about a 2 year rental of Lebron to the Celtics for 1-3 first round picks plus future considerations in 2012-3 such as Rondo/KG/RA and even PP. By 2012-13, some of the aging Celtic stars might be willing/forced to play for much smaller salaries. With some luck, perhaps one of Lebron's representatives, Cav's management and/or the Celtics players/management somehow read this message with I think a somewhat novel idea to bring multiple championship to the Cavaliers while allowing Lebron to star on what would be the best nba team ever. Winning multiple championships and being the person primary responsible for bringing a title to Cleveland after many years. And I want to give my background perspective first.

Admittedly I am a diehard Celtics fan since Bird's rookie year but this year I wouldn't have been upset if the Celtics lost to the Cavaliers as long as the Cavaliers won the championship. I will feel a little guilty if Lebron leaves the Cavs long term and sick if that team is the Knicks or Chicago. Chicago wouldn't sicken me that much but I would hate for Lebron to have to live in the shadow of a player, Jordan, who I think he is already better then. I do know my basketball. I was a Celtic fan for years who stated the team should trade for Ray Allen(Milwaukee didn't value him enough) and KG. And I even liked Tony Allen as a role player when most Celtic fans gave up on him. Many Celtic fans were clamoring for Elton Brand and I consistently stated that KG was MUCH better and that Brand was not the answer at all. When the Celtics traded for Vin Baker, I immediately said that trade was a disaster and the owner should have fired the GM for even contemplating such a deal... When I saw Lebron play 1 quarter in a high school game, I said the Celtics should tank the following season and trade basically everyone to get him since the hype that he was a Magic/Jordan hybrid was actually true.

In addition, Lebron and David Robinson are my two favorite superstars on opposing teams that I have really liked and that I honestly think in the grand scheme of things have been underrated for their contributions to their teams and the manner in which they play the game. In 1986 I admitted to myself that Jordan would be better then Bird if he wasn't already so I am not a fan that underrates players on opposing teams even if they haven't won a championship. Basketball is a team game and Lebron has the perfect blend of scoring/passing. Lebron is already significantly better then Jordan ever was but his supporting cast is no where near Jordan's in Chicago. Lebron is 90% of what made Magic a special player with overall athleticism that compares favorably to Jordan and that makes him a better player then Jordan. (Jordan was the better mid range shooter and he had a few more moves but Lebron is the much better passer and he is noticeably better driving to the basket) Jordan was quicker laterally and could jump a little higher but Lebron is faster, taller and much stronger even though Jordan was fairly strong for his size. I will take a Magic/Jordan hybrid over a Jordan any day of the week.

Long time diehard Celtic fans have a knowledgeable perspective of Jordan vs Lebron since before Pippen and other players arrived, Chicago got swept twice in a row to the Celtics in the playoffs. Jordan went 0-6 against Boston in the playoffs. Yes, Jordan had a tremendous series against the Celtics in 86 in the first series Chicago was swept but he was being single teamed more often then not and the Celtics defense on the perimeter against athletic players was not that good. In 87, when an injured Celtics team paid more attention to him, his shooting percentage suffered. Later on, Chicago almost made the finals without Jordan even on the team. The Cavs right now without Lebron and an average starting SF in his place are a 35 win team and that is only because the Cavs have good depth that often isn't as valuable in a playoff series if your team is healthy given the 1-2 days rest between every game. Yes, I know Cleveland with Shaq and Jamison were built to match up against Orlando and not Boston but I have never that much of a fan of Jamison since he is weak on defense. Shaq was amazing but now he was only really valuable to the Cavs against certain teams like Orlando.

Cleveland fans... Don't let anyone fool you into thinking that Jordan > Lebron because Jordan has won 6 championships. That is a BS argument since by that criteria Bill Russell would be the best player ever until someone else win 10+ championships.

OK now if I was Lebron....and I wanted to #1 win multiple championships AND be the player that leads a major Cleveland franchise to its first title in many years, I would...

First, try my realistic best to persuade Wade to come to Cleveland. If that fails as I suspect it will...

Pull a Michael Jordan -- he took time off to play baseball -- but with a twist. Leave Cleveland for 2 years to join the Boston Celtics as part of a sign and trade. Lebron's other options could be used for leverage to make sure Cleveland works with him and does what is in the Cavs long term interests as well. Tell the fans of Cleveland up front that you are only leaving for 2 years and you will definitely return for the 2012-13 season when Cleveland has time to put together a MUCH better supporting cast. And your leaving Cleveland for 2 years will help stock pile the Cavs with draft picks. And more importantly it goes without saying that a 2 year rebuilding effort without Lebron guaranteeing 45-50 wins by himself will lead to high lottery picks as well.

Boston championship days are obviously drawing to a close but with Lebron, they would be heavy favorites to win titles for the next two years.

Advantages of going to Boston is that he would fit amazingly well with the Celtics supporting cast and be amazing to watch teamed up with Rondo and Ray Allen. After the 2 year stint in Boston is over, this Boston fan wouldn't mind at all if the Celtics donated Rondo to the Cavs and had KG leave as well to be the Cavs 6th man. And if PP wanted to spend his final years winning a couple of more championships, he could join Cleveland as well. I think Ray Allen would want to stay in the Boston area but he would fit amazing well with Lebron and Rondo so I could even see him spending the last two years of his career in Cleveland. PP etc. have already said Lebron is the best player in the game of basketball so they would have no trouble letting him lead the team.

The great thing about joining Boston compared to another aging team like Dallas that he could lead to a championship is that he could realistically bring some talent(KG, Rondo and maybe even PP/RA to be a reserve on the bench) with him when he left Boston. And in Boston, he could survive one injury to a major player such as Rondo, PP, KG or RA. PP is still a very good player even though he now usually looks bad against Lebron's defense.

While Cleveland season ticket holders would be depressed over the 2010-11 season, this tremendously benefits the Cavs championship chances since they can actually have an opportunity to get a couple of top 1-5 lottery picks and major cap space for the return of Lebron starting in the 2012-13 season. The 2011-2 season would be just about speculating about how good next years team with Lebron's vastly improved supporting cast will be. And Lebron would be returning as a two time NBA champion/3-4 time MVP and that combined with massive Cleveland cap space would be more then enough to also add another superstar and some of the Celtic veterans/friends. So, not that many Cleveland fans would give up their season tickets with Lebron coming back with a championship calibre supporting cast that has already won championships.

Lebron will finally have a legitimate shot to get his Pippen, Rodman/Grant and Kukoc.

Imagine the Cavs entering the 2012-3 season with

1) Lebron at his peak. With PP, RA, KG, and even TA, the Celtics could even afford to limit Lebron's minutes to 34-35 mpg during the regular season to keep in healthy!
2) a top 1-5 lottery pick
3) another top 1-5 lottery pick (one of the lottery picks could be traded for a veteran with 5 very good to great years left)
4) a top FA and top 5-15 nba player from having cap space
5) KG (6th man) He may give up a little salary but make up for it with endorsements.
6) Rondo (or the two remaining first rounders from Boston). Rondo's salary is reasonable.
7) This years top 20 draft pick from Boston.
8) Whatever the Cavs could get for unloading Jamison and taking on a bad contract for the next 2 years.
9) HIckson or the Cavs could even trade him if a team offers a good lottery pick.

How this could work... Lebron announces his intention to leave Cleveland but states he will come back after 2 years so he will only go to teams that
1) can win a championship right now an best fit his talent.
2) can give back long term assets to the Cavs in terms of draft picks AND players that could tentatively commit to playing with Cleveland in a few years.

And while Lebron has been improving his shooting over the years, I wouldn't be shocked if Ray Allen helps him improve his shooting at a faster pace.

Yes, some teams may be willing to trade more then Boston to Cleveland for a 2 year rental of Lebron in terms of high draft picks but could those teams guarantee him the starring role in an unselfish championship team?

So as a part of a sign and trade between Boston and Cleveland, Boston trades PP or KG plus 3 number 1 draft picks for a 2 year rental of Lebron. Cleveland buys out KG or PP since they are rebuilding.... KG or PP re-up with Boston.

The Celtics and Cleveland agree to trade Rondo to Cleveland for the cancellation of the last 2 picks that the owe the Cavs if Rondo wants that trade and the Cavs want to make that deal as well. Rondo and Lebron becomes friends and they would be AMAZING together if they were paired with a great 3 point shooter at SG so it is only natural for Rondo to want to join Lebron in Cleveland.

Celtics suck for the next 3-5 years but they end up with 1-2 titles that they couldn't have gotten without Lebron. And the Celtics get a chance to properly build just like how the Cavs rebuilt their team while Lebron was on a two year vacation.

This obviously works for Cavs ownership if there goal truly is to maximize the chances for multiple championships.... Yes, the Cavs will absolutely suck the next 2 years....but season ticket holders will renew since Lebron has already solemnly vowed to come back after 2 seasons and the team will be heavy favorites to win the championship in 2012-3.

IMHO Lebron like David Robinson has been a victim of his own ability. Jordan wasn't good enough by himself to a bad team into a perennial contender. If Chicago hadn't been in position to trade up for Pippen and to acquire him, Jordan would have had to decide between winning a championship and Chicago. Unlike Jordan, Lebron and Robinson both were good enough to carry their teams without much help but that has hindered their teams ability to add another top 3-10 player to their team.

Lebron simply taking a year off for the Cavs to tank and add talent wouldn't add as much talent as Lebron renting himself out to an aging contender such as the Celtics. And I honestly think it would take the Cavs 2 years to remake their roster/cap room.

The key for making this work would be for Lebron to get commitments from some of the Celtics vets to join him in Cleveland and for Cavalier management to absolutely TANK the next two seasons and clear out the roster of all bad contracts.

farzi · Post #3 » by **farzi** » Sun May 16, 2010 9:38 am

Aldridge, Miller, Webster, Przybilla, Batum, Rudy, 22, 2012 1st
for
LeBron, Mo, Verajao, Jamison works salary wise as long as LeBron doesn't sign for any more than 22.9 mil (I have no idea what he CAN sign for)

After next season Cleveland would just have Hickson, Aldridge, Rudy, Gibson, Batum, and Webster, with a ton of cap space and most likely good lottery picks

Portland would have

Williams /
Roy / Bayless
LeBron /
Jamison / Verajao
Oden / Camby

With the MLE and Bi annual to get backups. Still doesn't mean LeBron would want to sign with us, or that Cleveland will help him, but that may be better than any other haul they get

Gordon Bombay · Post #4 » by **Gordon Bombay** » Sun May 16, 2010 5:56 pm

probably the best bet for getting rid of mo and jamison, farzi. i like that all the contracts pretty much end after next year (if we don't extend team options to fernandez and miller).

if lebron is gone, the objectives for next season should be to get rid of mo/jamison and get a top five pick. this trade accomplishes the first goal and the second goal could be accomplished by dealing away miller if the team becomes too good for the top five threshold

RRT · Post #5 » by **RRT** » Sun May 16, 2010 5:58 pm

LeBron won't go to Portland.

spurket · Post #6 » by **spurket** » Sun May 16, 2010 8:06 pm

Mo, West, Telfair for Arenas
Jamison, Shaq (S/T), Hickson for Iguodala, Brand

Shaq incuded to match the salaries.

Arenas
Iguodala
LeBron
Brand
Jermaine O'Neal or Haywood (MLE)

bench
Varejao
Parker
Moon
Gibson
Powe
Green
3-4 minimum salary free agents

GopherIt! · Post #7 » by **GopherIt!** » Sun May 16, 2010 8:34 pm

farzi wrote:Aldridge, Miller, Webster, Przybilla, Batum, Rudy, 22, 2012 1st
for
LeBron, Mo, Verajao, Jamison works salary wise as long as LeBron doesn't sign for any more than 22.9 mil (I have no idea what he CAN sign for)

Wolves offer Rubio, Jefferson, Sessions, Ellington, Gomes, CHA #1 2010, UT #1 2010, MN #1 2011 for the same package.

2011 Cavs:
PG: Rubio/Sessions/Gibson
SG: Ellington/UT #1 2010
SF: (Harrison Barnes?)/Gomes (1M buyout)
PF: Jefferson/Hickson
C: CHA #1 2010/MN #1 2011

LeQuitterNotMVP · Post #8 » by **LeQuitterNotMVP** » Sun May 16, 2010 8:42 pm

^Cavs accept, but LeBron doesn't.

Post #9 » by **INKtastic** » Mon May 17, 2010 12:50 am

why are people suggesting trades that involve LeBron? The clear thing to do is trade for another star player before July 1st. EIther CP3 or one of the pending free agents. They pretty much all have player options, so can be extended/traded until June 30th. Just think of the shock waves if we manage to pull either Bosh or Amare and LeBron off of the free agent market before July 1st gets here via a trade and two extensions.

Triumph36 · Post #10 » by **Triumph36** » Mon May 17, 2010 1:40 am

LBJ4MVP23 wrote:^Cavs accept, but LeBron doesn't.

Haha, if only we could decide where LeBron signs if he doesn't want Cleveland. That'd make the S&T opportunities pretty nice :lol:

lj4mvp wrote:why are people suggesting trades that involve LeBron? The clear thing to do is trade for another star player before July 1st. EIther CP3 or one of the pending free agents. They pretty much all have player options, so can be extended/traded until June 30th. Just think of the shock waves if we manage to pull either Bosh or Amare and LeBron off of the free agent market before July 1st gets here via a trade and two extensions.

1) CP3 is not happening. Period.
2) People are suggesting trades involving LeBron because LeBron leaving is far more likely than pairing him with another max here. A max FA coming here is a long shot.

Post #11 » by **INKtastic** » Mon May 17, 2010 1:56 am

Triumph36 wrote:
LBJ4MVP23 wrote:^Cavs accept, but LeBron doesn't.
Haha, if only we could decide where LeBron signs if he doesn't want Cleveland. That'd make the S&T opportunities pretty nice

lj4mvp wrote:why are people suggesting trades that involve LeBron? The clear thing to do is trade for another star player before July 1st. EIther CP3 or one of the pending free agents. They pretty much all have player options, so can be extended/traded until June 30th. Just think of the shock waves if we manage to pull either Bosh or Amare and LeBron off of the free agent market before July 1st gets here via a trade and two extensions.
1) CP3 is not happening. Period.
2) People are suggesting trades involving LeBron because LeBron leaving is far more likely than pairing him with another max here. A max FA coming here is a long shot.

we trade for one (most likely Bosh) before they become a FA. Bosh has 3 primary choices if he leaves Toronto.

- get traded to cleveland to play with LeBron and a cast that had the best record in the league the last two years.
- sign with the heat to play with wade and not much else
- sign with the knicks to team up with lebron, wade or another star and not much else

He gets the most complete team here.

GopherIt! · Post #12 » by **GopherIt!** » Mon May 17, 2010 8:12 am

LBJ4MVP23 wrote:^Cavs accept, but LeBron doesn't.

i know. I really hope he stays with the Cavs. Good luck to you guys.

Triumph36 · Post #13 » by **Triumph36** » Mon May 17, 2010 9:24 am

lj4mvp wrote:
Triumph36 wrote:
LBJ4MVP23 wrote:^Cavs accept, but LeBron doesn't.
Haha, if only we could decide where LeBron signs if he doesn't want Cleveland. That'd make the S&T opportunities pretty nice

lj4mvp wrote:why are people suggesting trades that involve LeBron? The clear thing to do is trade for another star player before July 1st. EIther CP3 or one of the pending free agents. They pretty much all have player options, so can be extended/traded until June 30th. Just think of the shock waves if we manage to pull either Bosh or Amare and LeBron off of the free agent market before July 1st gets here via a trade and two extensions.
1) CP3 is not happening. Period.
2) People are suggesting trades involving LeBron because LeBron leaving is far more likely than pairing him with another max here. A max FA coming here is a long shot.

we trade for one (most likely Bosh) before they become a FA. Bosh has 3 primary choices if he leaves Toronto.

- get traded to cleveland to play with LeBron and a cast that had the best record in the league the last two years.
- sign with the heat to play with wade and not much else
- sign with the knicks to team up with lebron, wade or another star and not much else

He gets the most complete team here.

First, we have no idea who each superstar wants to play with or where they want to play. Bosh may not want Cleveland, he might have plans to pair with Wade in MIA/NY or maybe go closer to home in Houston.

Anyway, the Cavs really aren't the most complete team. First, past record doesn't really matter because it led to them choking not once, but twice. Second, maybe if they were signing 1 year contracts. But they aren't. They're signing multi-year deals. And the Cavs have basically no future. If, for example, LeBron and Bosh want to play together and decide to go to NY over Cleveland I wouldn't blame them. NY at least has a future, albeit an overrated one (by their fan base at least).

mcfly1204 · Post #14 » by **mcfly1204** » Mon May 17, 2010 4:24 pm

Is Gibson going to rot on the bench next season? I will admit that I was not a fan of Gibson in the past, but he seems to have improved his ball handling this season, and played very well during Mo Williams shoulder injury. Gibson is a better defender than Mo, and has also shown that he is not afraid to take big shots, does one of the two get moved? Is there any possibility of packaging one of them with one of Parker/Moon/Powe to find an upgrade at SG?

gflem · Post #15 » by **gflem** » Mon May 17, 2010 9:46 pm

Michael Redd? Just saying.

Post #16 » by **INKtastic** » Tue May 18, 2010 2:22 am

Triumph36 wrote:First, we have no idea who each superstar wants to play with or where they want to play. Bosh may not want Cleveland, he might have plans to pair with Wade in MIA/NY or maybe go closer to home in Houston.

Anyway, the Cavs really aren't the most complete team. First, past record doesn't really matter because it led to them choking not once, but twice. Second, maybe if they were signing 1 year contracts. But they aren't. They're signing multi-year deals. And the Cavs have basically no future. If, for example, LeBron and Bosh want to play together and decide to go to NY over Cleveland I wouldn't blame them. NY at least has a future, albeit an overrated one (by their fan base at least).

sure, we don't know if Bosh wants to play in cleveland or not, but it has been reported in the past he wants to play on LeBron's team.

And of the 3 choices I listed to play with either LeBron or Wade, Cleveland is the most complete team. Bosh steps in as the new starting center on the team that led the league in wins last year.

RRT · Post #17 » by **RRT** » Tue May 18, 2010 3:06 am

cb4 as starting center is weaksauce I'd rather trade jamison and have him start at PF and put anything that resembles a center as a center.

tidho · Post #18 » by **tidho** » Fri May 21, 2010 12:24 pm

Really don't see us able to swing a Bosh deal. He'll have too many other options.

Someone mentioned Michael Redd earilier. If LeBron goes and we want to go into complete tank mide, I could see a Jamison swap because it frees up money a year earlier.

I like a Jamison for Iggy package. Philly has indicated they are willing to move him (and his realy long deal) and I think that only becomes more likely with Evan Turner on the way to join Jrue in their backcourt.

Mo is tougher to evaluate given that we'll have a different offense. Right now he's not giving any more than Boobie can. He's a better player though so he's capable of more. I still lean towards moving him but I don't see an obvious fit for him.

kiwibrindle · Post #19 » by **kiwibrindle** » Fri May 21, 2010 5:18 pm

If its true that LBJ is set on going to Chicago to be the next MJ w/o 23 but 6 on his back; we have no choice than to say we want a S&T for Rose, and Noah and Miller (since they have the rights to Miller) for 20 mill and they can have him. He does not need anyone else to play with on the Bulls roster now they have tons of cap space. They could sign Wade too. Chicago will never do that even for LBJ so he will have to sign for less and for less years. He will not care because he has too much money now. Maybe Obama can offer him incentive money someone to make up the diff for his ego (we have to do what's far! not ways right).

tidho · Post #20 » by **tidho** » Fri May 21, 2010 6:07 pm

kiwibrindle wrote:If its true that LBJ is set on going to Chicago to be the next MJ w/o 23 but 6 on his back; we have no choice than to say we want a S&T for Rose, and Noah and Miller (since they have the rights to Miller) for 20 mill and they can have him. He does not need anyone else to play with on the Bulls roster now they have tons of cap space. They could sign Wade too. Chicago will never do that even for LBJ so he will have to sign for less and for less years. He will not care because he has too much money now. Maybe Obama can offer him incentive money someone to make up the diff for his ego (we have to do what's far! not ways right).

Bulls would just sign him outright. The money difference isn't a big deal because if he's going to leave I can't see him signing a max length deal anyway.
The S&T that the Chicago media cooked up was based around Deng. That would be disasterous for us and the rest of the East.