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I pose this question after debating with some Mavs fans on another board. Apparently one was bringing up reasons as to why Lebron would come to Dallas. One of the points included this article.

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=1810

I pointed out how the article was flawed in the understanding of NBA trade rules. I then said that it would seem better to do a S&T with a team under the cap to get a big trade exception and picks than to just take back Dampier. Since if LeBron just walks Cleveland doesn't have much cap space to do anything, but at least with a big TE they (you guys) could go after players they want that would be better than Dampier.

I'm definitely not saying this is the best option for you guys, just better than the one posed in this article. But I wanted to know if you guys would be ok getting a big TE?

the browns need a hell of a lot more than a tight end to make any noise next year

Trade Exception ... I'm not trolling either but LeBron is going to NJ or Chicago... And you all have Delonte to blame and Gloria James

CroCop wrote:the browns need a hell of a lot more than a tight end to make any noise next year

I'll just hope you weren't very smart at deciphering and not attempting to troll.

The idea of accepting Dampier and picks for LeBron makes no sense. The Cavaliers basically co-sign LeBron leaving by doing this...and they get screwed in the process. No player(s) that Dallas could offer would be worth trading LeBron.

What is the point in trading for a TE? Cavs can just let him walk, and they save 17 million from jump-street. Sure... they don't get the 2 1st-round picks that Dallas would offer, but those picks would be very low...yet still guaranteed contracts on players that would likely have no impact for 3-4 years...if ANY at all... but the Cavs would still have to pay them...all the while, they lose the best player in the NBA for nothing...and actually co-sign doing it.

By letting him walk, they would be much better off than sending him to Dallas for ANYTHING they can offer...including Dirk.

Now, If New Jersey offered Lopez,Williams,Harris, and 2 1st rounders... I would consider that trade. I'd also consider a trade from the Clippers: Gordon,Griffin,Kaman & two 1st-rounders. These trades would only be made if LeBron insisted on leaving; and the preferred trade would be with the Clippers... because that team is cursed, and the #1 picks would have a much higher probability of being better(higher) picks.

I don't know why people make threads like this, it's not like the Cavs going to put up their decision up for a vote on an internet forum. What we would consider or not consider is entirely inconsequential.

Well we don't even know if LeBron is going to leave, but hypothetically...

I could see a Dampier, Butler, and a pick type deal with Dallas. I don't think filler would be needed but even if it si that's never an issue.

This way Dallas obviously gets to run with Dirk, LeBron, and Kidd while Cleveland gets a very good starter in return along with some flexibility. Everyone is focused on Dampier's options off the court, I don't see him as a bad option on the court. I'd expect both centers to be out of here if LeBron goes, so if Andy is the new starter Dampier would be a good muscle back up from him.

heathmalc wrote:The idea of accepting Dampier and picks for LeBron makes no sense. The Cavaliers basically co-sign LeBron leaving by doing this...and they get screwed in the process. No player(s) that Dallas could offer would be worth trading LeBron.

What is the point in trading for a TE? Cavs can just let him walk, and they save 17 million from jump-street. Sure... they don't get the 2 1st-round picks that Dallas would offer, but those picks would be very low...yet still guaranteed contracts on players that would likely have no impact for 3-4 years...if ANY at all... but the Cavs would still have to pay them...all the while, they lose the best player in the NBA for nothing...and actually co-sign doing it.

By letting him walk, they would be much better off than sending him to Dallas for ANYTHING they can offer...including Dirk.

Now, If New Jersey offered Lopez,Williams,Harris, and 2 1st rounders... I would consider that trade. I'd also consider a trade from the Clippers: Gordon,Griffin,Kaman & two 1st-rounders. These trades would only be made if LeBron insisted on leaving; and the preferred trade would be with the Clippers... because that team is cursed, and the #1 picks would have a much higher probability of being better(higher) picks.

Well the point of the TE would be to allow you to get other players since if you just let LeBron walk, you have cap space that's equivalent to the MLE. Which might keep your from really adding anyone that might be decent.

Again I'm not promoting it as a best option, just proposing a possibly better alternative to what Dallas is offering.

Ballah wrote:I don't know why people make threads like this, it's not like the Cavs going to put up their decision up for a vote on an internet forum. What we would consider or not consider is entirely inconsequential.

Based on that reasoning, we might as well eliminate messageboards all together. Fans talk about trades, starters, rotations, who they would like to see drafted, coaches hired or fired, etc. and don't have control over any of that.

tidho wrote:Well we don't even know if LeBron is going to leave, but hypothetically...

I could see a Dampier, Butler, and a pick type deal with Dallas. I don't think filler would be needed but even if it si that's never an issue.

This way Dallas obviously gets to run with Dirk, LeBron, and Kidd while Cleveland gets a very good starter in return along with some flexibility. Everyone is focused on Dampier's options off the court, I don't see him as a bad option on the court. I'd expect both centers to be out of here if LeBron goes, so if Andy is the new starter Dampier would be a good muscle back up from him.

I fully agree we don't know about him leaving. I do find it interesting that you'd consider actually keeping him.

IMO, I don't see the CAVs doing a S&T with Dallas with what is being posted in this thread. A TE with a high lottery pick team would be more likely with the CAVs getting this year and future number one(s) pick. Young useful players will be those the CAVs would seek also, if they were starting over. No need to be on the mediocrity treadmill.

bgassassin wrote:Well the point of the TE would be to allow you to get other players since if you just let LeBron walk, you have cap space that's equivalent to the MLE. Which might keep your from really adding anyone that might be decent.

Again I'm not promoting it as a best option, just proposing a possibly better alternative to what Dallas is offering.

That is not correct. We are currently over the cap at 66 million. By removing LeBron, we would be at 48.2 million. We can then release West (team option), which is another 4.5 million, bringing the Cavaliers cap number to about 44 million. Next year's cap is expected to be between 54-56 million. That gives the Cavaliers 10-12 million to sign whoever they want. The MLE is expected to be about 4.9-5.1 million.

By trading for Dampier, we not only become sadled with Caron's contract on a team that wouldn't have a realistic chance of a championship, but also whatever contract we'd trade the Dampier contract for...if it were traded. If it wasn't, then the Cavs would have to sign him to a new deal. The entire proposition makes no financial sence for the Cavaliers. Caron is NOT very good starter, as some people propose. He is a slightly above average starter, who is overpaid. Dampier is a career back-up who was overpaid by Dallas...obviously, because if he was such a good option, then he would be staying in Dallas, and the Mavericks would have had no need to trade for Haywood at the deadline.

A trade with Dallas is NOT an option... they have nothing of value that the Cavaliers would be interested in. The ONLY WAY that Dallas could possibly get LeBron is if there were a 3-4 team trade, and that is under the assumption that the Cavs would go that route (S&T) which is unlikely, given Dan Gilbert's public quote that he will never trade LeBron regardless of the circumstance. It is more likely that Dirk signs with the Clippers for the league minimum than it is for the Cavaliers to S&T LeBron to Dallas.

You guys have to realize that the only way a sign and trade is happening is if Lebron elects his option/signs a new contract. And the only way he elects to do either of those is contingent on getting traded to the team he wants to go to. If he really wants to go to Dallas, it's going to happen. Cavs won't get much out of any sign and trade deals, but anything is better than the more likely scenario of him opting out and walking to Knicks/Nets/Bulls/Clippers who can sign him out right.

heathmalc wrote:By letting him walk, they would be much better off than sending him to Dallas for ANYTHING they can offer...including Dirk.

You must be kidding. I can see why the Cavs would rather let him walk in lue of grabbing expirings and some draft picks in exchange for the King. That would be a kick in the nuts to say the least. But assuming LeBron is all but gone, getting Dirk is actually a nice coupe for this team. I'd put him on a list of players like CP3, Deron, Melo, Dwight, Brandon Roy, etc. Guys under contract that aren't quite as valuable as LeBron, but guys that the Cavs would take in return for LeBron without hesitation if they knew they couldn't keep him. With that said, Dirk is now a free agent and there's literally no chance he'll ever be a Cavalier nor is there any chance Cleveland will get any of the players I mentioned.

chrice wrote: the more likely scenario of him opting out and walking to Knicks/Nets/Bulls/Clippers who can sign him out right.

That's why the OP is proposing the S&T to those teams you mention. Sure they can sign him outright. However, Cleveland can still give him the most money. Therefore, they could sign him and trade him to say New York so that he gets more money. The Cavs could get in return some draft picks and a Trade Exception that they could use to bring in other players via trade who might become available.

chrice wrote:You guys have to realize that the only way a sign and trade is happening is if Lebron elects his option/signs a new contract. And the only way he elects to do either of those is contingent on getting traded to the team he wants to go to. If he really wants to go to Dallas, it's going to happen. Cavs won't get much out of any sign and trade deals, but anything is better than the more likely scenario of him opting out and walking to Knicks/Nets/Bulls/Clippers who can sign him out right.

If LeBron wants to go to Dallas, which would shock me, the Cavaliers do not have to s&t him for the junk Dallas would offer in trade. The Cavs would be better off letting him walk than accept Marion, Butler or any other big contracts from Dallas. Dirk is currently a FA and LeBron would not agree to go there if Dirk is gone IMO.

IF LeBron leaves, and I still think he's staying, the Cavs could also renounce Shaq and not pick up Delonte's option which would give them some capspace. I don't see the point of a TE.

bgassassin wrote:I pose this question after debating with some Mavs fans on another board. Apparently one was bringing up reasons as to why Lebron would come to Dallas. One of the points included this article.

http://www.dallasbasketball.com/fullColumn.php?id=1810

I pointed out how the article was flawed in the understanding of NBA trade rules.

What about that article is wrong on the rules? It's exactly right, it's been quoted by espn.com for its insight, and if you think it's wrong, it reveals YOUR lack of understanding on the concepts.

As far as whether its ideas are the right ones to bring Lebron to Dallas, that's going to be a matter of opinion...but the article was right on target in the trade concept it presented using Dampier's unusual contract.

And to go one step further ...whether you realize it or not, if getting a Trade Exception is some sort of deal maker for you, that's easily managed within the very same trade package. All it would take would be for the Dampier contract to be shipped to any of the 10-or-so teams with enough cap room (along with some cash or a pick for their help), rather than to Cleveland, before being waived. However, as others have said, the Cavs would probably rather have cap space and use it in free agency than tie up their cap room with a TE.

One final thought: if Cleveland was convinced Lebron was leaving in free agency and seemed headed to some place like Chicago or NY, that trade idea in the article might be one idea the Cavs front office might try to encourage as an alternative. It can get them assets without a cap hit, and get Lebron out of their division and into the West where he's not in their way in the playoffs. Not saying that's a likelihood, but it's a practical upgrade with little-to-no downside for the Cavs when compared to most of the other non-Cleveland outcomes

Well, let me put in a somewhat realistic proposal:

Dampier, Butler, Beaubois, Stevenson, 2 future 1st rd picks, $3m cash

for James, Jamison

Dampier's contract is fully unguaranteed and can either be waived or can be used to aquire another player like a TPE. Butler's contract is one year shorter than Jamison's and Butler can play SF, which would free up playing time for Hickson and would fill the spot James left behind. Beaubois is a nice talented young player, long arms which makes him play like a 6'3'' to 6'4'' guard, very athletic and still on a cheap rookie scale contract. The two future 1st round picks are obviously very late picks, but with the right scouting a team can find some useful players on then again rather cheap rookie scale contracts. The $3m cash are added for paying most of Stevenson's salary (it is also an expiring contract).

Well, the Mavericks also have a TPE which they can use to aquire Anthony Parker, if the Cavs like that idea.

Obviously that is worse than keeping James (which I think is a more likely scenario, btw.), but that would put the Cavaliers in a better position than they would be, if James leaves for nothing. The Cavs are not getting any bad contracts, but a couple of assets they can work with.

How about if we just take Dirk off the Mavs for a pile of steaming crap and some late picks?

It's better than getting nothing back for him, right?

JonFromVA wrote:How about if we just take Dirk off the Mavs for a pile of steaming crap and some late picks?

It's better than getting nothing back for him, right?

If Dirk leaves this summer (and who knows), then realistically:
a. The worst case scenario for a Mavs fan is that he walks to a team for money and Mavs get nothing,
b. The Mavs would certainly prefer to get him out of their division if they can
c. The Mavs would love to have some compensation and if it isn't junk-filled, something IS better than nothing
d. Every Mavs fan knows there will be virtually no chance of getting back close-to-equal value, so holding out for "full value or bust" would be stupid.

Dirk will control his choice of destinations. If it's not the Mavs, the Mavs will actually WANT it to be a destination where something useful comes back, without also taking junk cluttering up their payroll.

Hey Cleveland, what about a SnT for Josh Smith and draft picks? Compared to what NY, NJ, Dallas is offering.

mysticbb wrote:Well, let me put in a somewhat realistic proposal:

Dampier, Butler, Beaubois, Stevenson, 2 future 1st rd picks, $3m cash

for James, Jamison

Dampier's contract is fully unguaranteed and can either be waived or can be used to aquire another player like a TPE. Butler's contract is one year shorter than Jamison's and Butler can play SF, which would free up playing time for Hickson and would fill the spot James left behind. Beaubois is a nice talented young player, long arms which makes him play like a 6'3'' to 6'4'' guard, very athletic and still on a cheap rookie scale contract. The two future 1st round picks are obviously very late picks, but with the right scouting a team can find some useful players on then again rather cheap rookie scale contracts. The $3m cash are added for paying most of Stevenson's salary (it is also an expiring contract).

Well, the Mavericks also have a TPE which they can use to aquire Anthony Parker, if the Cavs like that idea.

Obviously that is worse than keeping James (which I think is a more likely scenario, btw.), but that would put the Cavaliers in a better position than they would be, if James leaves for nothing. The Cavs are not getting any bad contracts, but a couple of assets they can work with.

They couldn't do that if they plan on keeping Dirk. The cap would be way too high.