Trading Varejao Vs Keeping him

Dupp · Post #1 » by **Dupp** » Mon Dec 3, 2012 12:20 am

So which side of the fence are you on and why?

KEEPING HIM ADVANTAGES

* Guy that's in his prime now.

* Out playing almost every other big in the league.

* Good contract

* Team would be pretty unwatchable without him right now

* The type of guy you want around while young players are developing as he always goes 110% and is the ultimate competitor.

* We are going to get another high pick this year and with all the cap space its time to start winning

* Showing our young players, most importantly kyrie a winning culture and direction sooner rather than later. We don't want a scenario where Kyrie wants out. Lets face it this season's gonna be a pretty bad one. Kyries gonna be in his third year next season and we will still have a lot of developing players in the team. Keeping a guy like andy around and showing him we are trying to win soon is important.

* Teams rarely build contenders from scratch. They do it via draft/free agency/ keeping existing players. OKC is a rare case.

TRADING HIM ADVANTAGES

* Helps the tank

* More picks and assets to really help the rebuild

* Kyrie likely to stick around anyway and getting worse in the mean time is worth being that much better in the future. Which will put us in a better position to win a title.

* Injury prone and his value is at it's peak currently

As you can see with my lack of "trading him points" i am Pro keeping him. Am sure i have missed many pros and cons for both sides of the argument so let's hear some other opinions.

I guess another point is the likely hood of said pick we'd be receiving being high and the quality of the draft (which i know nothing about) the picks are from. Which would most likely be the next draft which i have heard is looking kind of weak yes? Not that anybody really knows when a draft will be weak or not.

Post #2 » by **Rise Against** » Mon Dec 3, 2012 1:17 am

It depends on what we can get for him really.. If there is a deal that really helps the Cavs in the long run (improving the youth and bench) then they should really look into it. If there is no deal that is enticing, then I am fine with keeping him.

SaiCLE · Post #3 » by **SaiCLE** » Mon Dec 3, 2012 1:20 am

I'm on the keep andy bandwagon, this is why.

I honeslty do not think Chris Grant will trade Varejao. I would not trade him unless we get something close to value, due to the fact he is the heart and soul of the Cavaliers franchise and a huge long time favorite to the fans. He has been extremely loyal to the Cavs and he never b*tched about anything lol. The city of Cleveland would be crushed if he were to be traded without bringing in a player with equal impact.( we know this not happening, Varejao's impact on the cavs can't be replicated imo)

Trading him now would not be beneficial, due to the fact our young guys look up to him (especially Tristan) and it's showing. Also i think the city of Cleveland(Casuals) would turn on Grant so quick...since he is already on thin ice.

Niko23 · Post #4 » by **Niko23** » Mon Dec 3, 2012 2:04 am

Hes the most loved player....well probably out of all 3 Cleveland sports teams so there will be backlash if he is traded. I am on the fence on this one. Does another lotto pick (OKC trade) in a bad draft really help our team? If we can trade him and another piece for a legit all star.......maybe you do it

Nirvana · Post #5 » by **Nirvana** » Mon Dec 3, 2012 5:52 am

I want Varejao to retire a Cavalier. I think he has many good years ahead of him and with the way he is developing, I want those years to be in Cleveland. Like you said, he is exactly the kind of guy a rebuilding team should have. He's showing these young guys how you succeed in this league.

The chance of drafting a player with AV's capabilities is extremely low. There's no reason to try it. We're too young as it is, drafting another huge batch of 19 and 20 years olds means we won't be competing until Kyrie is close to the end of his deal. Screw that. We've got 4 1st rounders on this team from the last 2 years, 2 more coming next year. We have the assets to make this team better already without needing to trade Varejao.

I'd only trade Varejao for a no brainer deal that gave us young pieces that fit our team perfectly and a high pick(s). I hope Grant feels the same way.

Brovva Blaqq · Post #6 » by **Brovva Blaqq** » Mon Dec 3, 2012 12:15 pm

Nirvana wrote:I want Varejao to retire a Cavalier. I think he has many good years ahead of him and with the way he is developing, I want those years to be in Cleveland.

Please keep in mind, that he is 30 years old. I guess this is his peak now and you wont get a better chance to trade him in the future.

Some picks + a young prospect wouldnt hurt the Cavs in the short term, but could pay huge dividends in the future. You are tanking this season anyway.

Post #7 » by **TheOUTLAW** » Mon Dec 3, 2012 3:32 pm

When I watch this team play, I don't think that they have any intention to tank this season.

ScramboD8 · Post #8 » by **ScramboD8** » Mon Dec 3, 2012 6:10 pm

He's staying. He might be thirty years old but he's got a lot left in his tank. You don't find players like him often, we need to keep him.

mcfly1204 · Post #9 » by **mcfly1204** » Mon Dec 3, 2012 6:30 pm

Keep him. With the young talent we currently have, plus the future draft picks we currently own, I think we are a FA signing away from going to the next level. I feel that one of the most important factors in developing young players is teaching them how to win. It would be very hard to win games without Andy, so unless someone tosses us a soon to be All-Star with the hopes that Varejao puts them over the edge now, I say hold onto him.

kiwibrindle · Post #10 » by **kiwibrindle** » Mon Dec 3, 2012 8:27 pm

Keep him unless we get something like: A proven NBA young talent PF or center and an unrestricated pick .

The guy does not stop. Love watching his game.

Sign him again now

Harper4Ferry? · Post #11 » by **Harper4Ferry?** » Tue Dec 4, 2012 5:36 am

Pleases don't flame. What if we traded Andy/Gee/Boobie for Turner/Bynum as the guts of a trade? Turner might blossom here. Philly needs a big guy. We send them some cash savings somehow in the deal. We get to look at Bynum for this off-season. Maybe we throw them a Heat Pick. Is this far fetched.

Kaner · Post #12 » by **Kaner** » Tue Dec 4, 2012 6:28 am

Harper4Ferry? wrote:Pleases don't flame. What if we traded Andy/Gee/Boobie for Turner/Bynum as the guts of a trade? Turner might blossom here. Philly needs a big guy. We send them some cash savings somehow in the deal. We get to look at Bynum for this off-season. Maybe we throw them a Heat Pick. Is this far fetched.

I don't see Turner being a SF that would start on a contender. That, and didn't they trade Iggy to basically free up time for Turner? I don't think they would consider that deal, especially with Bynum because it would make them look pretty bad

Dupp · Post #13 » by **Dupp** » Tue Dec 4, 2012 7:15 am

Bynums a walking injury that cant walk. Turner is decent though, he could definatley be a starter on a contender, hes a decent player. I mean Ariza played a pretty decent roles for one of the lakers chips.

Baseline Runner · Post #14 » by **Baseline Runner** » Tue Dec 4, 2012 8:43 am

Definitely keep. We have enough assets already, good young players, draft picks, cap space. We don't need more of that, instead what we need is all-star caliber veterans like Andy. I think Andy will play at this level for 5+ years barring serious injury.

Brapman · Post #15 » by **Brapman** » Tue Dec 4, 2012 6:40 pm

If there were a reason to tank this season, then trading him for a draft pick would be smart. The problem is that I don't know that there are any stars in the 2013 draft to shoot for.

I go back and forth about this for you guys (I'm a Pistons fan - but I'm trying to be a non-trolling realistic guy), but my guess is that you'll be smart to move him. This is a close call for the reasons you guys have been giving. My view is that this is 100% Kyre's team, and you've got to find assets to put around him.

The 2013 draft is primarily big men - no stars it looks like, but you should be able to pick up a defensive monster, which is what you need. Perhaps you could trade Varejao for a big top shooting wing player plus a future #1 (2014 or later, with minimal lottery protection). You've already got an offensive hustle big man in Zeller, a defensive athletic PF in TT who I imagine you guys like well enough to let develop. Solidifying your defensive interior play would make sense - plus trading Varejao this year would mean you could also get in early position for the 2014 lottery.

You've got to build around your elite PG, and know that by the time you guys could contend a few seasons from now, if all goes really well, a guy like Varejao - who only excels because of his unbelievable hustle to go with really good athleticism, won't be part of the solution - won't be of much help to your championship aspirations.

soxfan2003 · Post #16 » by **soxfan2003** » Wed Dec 5, 2012 1:08 am

I'm a Celtic fan and a bit biased since I wanted the Celtics to trade for Varejao after last season. But if any team could win the east besides Boston, I would want it to be the Cavaliers.

That being said, if I were the GM of the Cavs and my mission was to win a championship and not just to become a good playoff team, I would deal him but my sneaking suspicision is Cleveland won't deal him this season because the short term fan reaction may not be good. However, if I could get 2 picks that figured to be <20 in the draft and a decent young player on an inexpensive rookie contract that could be flipped if need be, it would be enough in my mind to trade him in the absence of an even better offer that I would obviously be looking out for. My opinion on trading Varejao might change if I was truly convinced that his leadership was needed to keep the team on the straight and arrow next year. But in all honestly does a rebuilding team unless they feel they will be on the cusp of a championship want to be giving Varejao a market deal 2.5 years from now.

I am a big believer in tanking in situations like the Cavs are in now or situations the Celtics were in before the Ray Allen/KG trades and clearing out cap space at the same time. But the poster who questioned whether or not there was anyone worthy of tanking for in the upcoming draft may have been right. I would respond to that that the real question is if there is someone worth tanking for this year and next year since I think the Cavs would be best suited by mimicking OKC and being bad for a few years. Without Varejao, that may mean 2 more top 1-5 picks plus a couple of picks that the Cavs get for him.

Some team may offer more but if the Celtics are healthy near the trading deadline and don't make a trade with another team, I could see Boston offering
2013 pick -- perhaps around the 21st pick in the draft.
2015 pick top 6 protected with the Cavs having a chance to punt on the pick for a year or two if the pick isn't in the top 20. I would honestly suspect this pick would be about 15 since by then PP will be completely done and KG not much of a factor and could even be retired.
Sullinger -- has done well for a rookie and could be a legit contributor in the post season for the Celtics but may not have that much of an upside
Courtney Lee -- a good backup.

As for Cleveland obviously the higher the picks ther better but I think the reason to trade Varejao is it makes it easier to tank this year and next year and chances are Varejao won't be one of the Cavs 3 or 4 best players by the 2015-16 season. At some point, the Cavs will have to go for it and try to win again but I don't think another 1.5 years of rebuilding is that bad.

Besides being a fan favorite, I think the best reason to keep Varejao is if you believe that his presence will make it easier for the Cavs to sign an impact free agent.

kiwibrindle · Post #17 » by **kiwibrindle** » Wed Dec 5, 2012 3:25 pm

I can't think of one think I want from Boston....

.... not one

WenningtonGuy · Post #18 » by **WenningtonGuy** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 8:11 pm

Wolves fan:

Curious what it would take to get Varejao? Minus Derrick Williams, Luke Ridnour, and Pek, and add Calderon to the Wolves roster.

Calderon is a really nice expiring, but obviously that isn't enough. What else if possible?

Kaner · Post #19 » by **Kaner** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 8:23 pm

Why is it minus Williams and Pek? And we already have lots of cap space coming up in the very near future, no need here to throw AV away for Calderon+others. I doubt Minny has anything that we really want moving forward.

WenningtonGuy · Post #20 » by **WenningtonGuy** » Fri Dec 7, 2012 8:27 pm

Kaner wrote:Why is it minus Williams and Pek? And we already have lots of cap space coming up in the very near future, no need here to throw AV away for Calderon+others. I doubt Minny has anything that we really want moving forward.

Just because of another possible move that the Wolves could make that would send out Williams, Ridnour, and Pek and bring in Ross, Calderon, and Valanciunas